Before it starts Snowing!

I want a bike and I want to ride it a few times before we're buried under six feet of snow. HELP! I live in the far North, in a town with short summers and some harsh hills. But we also have some great bike trails and a bike-friendly downtown area. I just want to get back to the cycling I loved thirty years ago. And there's the problem. I've been away from it and I don't really have someone here to advise me. Two years ago I decided to buy a bike. Bought a cheap one I was told by the salesperson would be "a comfortable commuter with no frills." All true, but the bike felt too big, seemed slow and heavy, and really, really, ...maroon. I felt I was stretched from saddle to grips, and it never felt like we belonged together. I sadly put it in the garage, figuring it was my problem. But all summer I've watched people of all ages gliding by while I walk. And then, I bought a bike for my daughter for her birthday, and that did it. But my last experience has me nervous and all the online info has me confused. I can get sized ok, but ...where do you go to get a matchmaker for a bicycle? I hear all these names. And I see postings here of people who LOVE their bikes. Locally I know we have Specialized, Giant and Trek. But how do they stack up to the names I see here in these forums? I KNOW, if I don't love it, I won't ride it. So please, some kind experienced person, HELP! Where is the e-harmony for middle-aged women looking for a serious relationship with a two-wheeler?

cute post, welcome to TE. I guess part of the loveaffair, the "matchmaker" or the person who sells you the bike is important. go to your LBS's (Local bike shops) and see who is nice to you. Who really takes an interest in what you want and what you need and if that bike he/she has really fits you. A specialized, a giant, and a Trek, these are all good bikes, the special ingredient is someone who can help you find the one that fits you!

I'm really not that up on new bikes these days so I have not advice except find a good LBS where you are comfortable!

Hi Shell R. I'm Cheryl. I live in MA and your post was just great. Great because that's almost like where i"m at. I feel you. I like how you said *matchmaker*. I never looked at purchasing a bike this way. Now I see... there is a difference. Just speaking from someone who has never rode in races but just wants to ride for fun as I've loved since learning at under age 12.

now it sheds like on all conversations when people say, *it's like riding a bike*. You don't forget. No matter how many years. I get bike envy when I see kids riding and wish I could ride like I used to. Stopped because life got in the way and it drifted.

Well, just today, I found my matchmaker. I didn't know what it was until you posted this. I had been to two other cycle shops... got info.. and left..

Today, I left really feeling like, this is my Bike. !!! it was not there in person to try out but I trust the lady, Beth. Awesome. Just so much different then the last two sales people I had contact with. I think it was her knowledge, her description of what I needed. Her checking out my leg length, torso, how I wanted to sit explaining the different bikes. and it was all GOOD.

I'M 56 and so look forward to smiling again just bike riding. Someone on here will direct you to stores and you go from there. I'm thankful to Cathy for giving me leads and I followed.

you know what got me, the smile on the ladies face from their website also. I felt she had a personal interest in me. And yes, I also chose a Specialized bike, or did it choose me. ??

One important decision is the type of bike you want -- hybrid, comfort, road, mountain, etc. What kind of riding do you want to do? Flat trails? Tackling those hills? On pavement, off, both? Running errands or just cruising around for fun and exercise, or both? Long rides lasting for hours?

Please don't mention snow. Despite this summer's crazy weather, I'm not ready to see it again!

Decide what type of bike you want and what you'll be doing with it. Will you be riding paved trails and roads? Unpaved trails? Will you be hitting those hills or riding on fairly flat roads and rail-trails? Why do you want the bike?(Commuting, errands, exercise, etc. A combination?) What's your budget?

Answer those questions, and go to a reputable bike shop. Go to several. Tell them the answers to those questions, and they'll help you. If you feel pressured to buy what's on the floor, go somewhere else. Ask to test everything they show you (that you might be interested in, and even some that you're not for comparison purposes), and see if they'll let you do test rides beyond the parking lot. It may feel good in the parking lot, but 10 miles in you might be in pain.

Specialized, Giant and Trek make good bikes...if they fit!

Before it starts...?... LA-LA-LAAAAA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!

*pulls fingers momentarily out of ears to say*

Yes, do find a friendly bike shop. If you don't feel it's friendly, go find another one. You'll know, if you tell them you want a bike that will make you love biking and their faces light up, that's the place. And welcome :)

I rode bikes from age 10-24, then bought a car. After that I bought several "wrong" bikes (sort of like your story) and didn't ride much. I HIGHLY recommend that you seek out the book, recommended to me by folks here, "Every Woman's Guide to Cycling" by Selene Yeager and read CHAPTER 2. There is a wonderful questionairre in this chapter and based on your answers will help you narrow down the type of bike. It gives great explanations about the answers and what it means to you personally. This will totally help narrow it down. Then you will have a good foundation of a starting point. For example, I knew I wanted a drop handlebar bike. Well....there are many bikes with drop bars - race geometry, touring geometry, cyclocross geometry, etc. Part of the questionnaire asks "Who Am I", for example do you buy the best money can buy or do you go for basic function? When you start a new hobby do you stick to it like glue or is it a passing phase, etc.
Once you sort of know what type of bike you want you will find that often different shops cater to different types of riders. Portland has over 76 different bike shops & that doesn't include nearby towns. Some shops cater more to the race crowd, a few are "all purpose" type riding meaning they try to please everyone, a few are very specific to commuting, and we even have places that specialize in the cargo bikes with big boxes on the front! The only way I figured this out is by going to them all over a few months. Now I know who has what and how they treat me.
So, figure out what you want and about how much you're willing to spend (the book will guide you on that too), go to some shops and test ride many bikes, ask questions and repeat. Then come back here and will help guide you.
You can do it!

It's like shopping for anything else, you try different brands, do some research, etc. You'll know when you find the bike you want. I was in the same position as you a year ago. It was overwhelming all the choices. But you start with one brand and work through them until you find the bike you like. Best thing to do first though is get sized. Once you know what size bike you are, then you can compare much easier.
Good luck and will find your dream bike. :)

56 years young here too! I got back into cycling in May of this year. Got loads of terrific help from the TE family. Found a fantastic bike shop with a middle aged lady cyclist who took great care of me. Also, have a patient hubby who encourged me all along the way...I have gone from having an 8 mile ride kick my butt to the 31 miler last Saturday, complete with steep hills and traffic! Go out and get info, bring your questions to the TE fam, and you too can be having the time of your life before you know it!;)

Snow!:D Hard to believe it's only been 6 weeks, (July 1st) since I last skied But I'm thinking about snow already. Bought a new ski jacket and pants last week and am thinking about new skis. Mid to late Oct. I'll be skiing again.

Oops, sorry for highjacking this thread!

Shell R, I did a bike tour in Wisconsin about a month ago. We rode from Iron River to Superior then to Bayfield and back to Iron River. Superior seemed like a nice town and I'm sure you can find a bike shop that will help you find the right match.

The advice here is very good, do your research, find a good fit and have fun.

Hmmmmm - Houghton, by any chance? If so, there is also Jamis, Felt, Norco, ......

Just go and ride bikes. Find something that feels fun. As NY Biker said, you need to figure out what type of riding you want to do, and go from there. When you go to a shop, describe your past experience, and why that bike isn't working for you.

Oh - and the brands you listed are all good brands. That doesn't mean the bottom of the line Trek would be as good as the top of the line Trek, etc. Once you ride a few, you'll get a better feel for what you like.

And we will have snow in the air in a month, and on the ground in mid-October, and (I'm hoping) covering the trails by mid-November. :D

let's not forget CANNONDALE! LOVE my Synapse;)

I'd get a 'cross bike, if I were you. You'll have clearance for studded tires, so you'll be able to extend your riding season into winter, which you may want to do someday (when I started riding, I never in a million years would have thought I'd like riding year round, but I do!). Skinny tires for summer, and it will be pretty much like a road bike. Thicker tires, and you can ride some trails.

Maybe check out a Specialized Tricross. I know a few people with it and they love them; but of course, fit is paramount, and it's best to work with an lbs who is nice.

How about a Surly Cross Check? Commuters and bike mechanics ( not because it needs repairs often, but because they are bomb proof) all LOVE this bike, but I'm not biased ;) I have one and just celebrated my 1 month anniversary with it. It is a steel bike (chro-moly), lighter than my aluminum bike, drop bars for multiple hand positions, ability to mount fenders, racks front & back, tire sizes up to 40mm with fenders. Cost about $1,075 for a 2011 model and comes in black & Robin's egg blue. Comes with slightly knobby tires but my shop switched them out for Kevlar belted smooth commuter tires.
Good luck and tell us what you think.

Holy crap! And I promise, I won’t mention S%*w again, though one salesperson I spoke to showed me a bike that had “all-season” tires, and looked like something out of a Mad Max movie. Your replies were almost as good as a new bike! Ok, not, but your words did have that cool feeling of being cheered on by people you trust. And why do I trust a blog full of strangers? Because you guys all ride bikes! And you’re all women (as far as I know). And your advice was crazy consistent. So, YES, I’ll read Chapter 2 of Every Women’s Guide to Cycling and I’ll get sized by one of the shop pros. BUT, maybe because it’s the end of our mini-season, our 3 bike/hike shops don’t have much for me to ride. The Trek shop has 1 for me to take out but he said it is probably too big. There’s a shop that had a few Jamis and Surly, but they didn’t have any for me to ride, and they seemed more interested in selling me a Globe (offshoot Specialized) which had a monster front carrier thing which looked like it could hold several farm animals. They called it a “lifestyle” bike. Moo. I guess August may not be the time to shop for a bike in Northern Michigan. Which is ok. I don’t mind at all the idea of spending a few months on a bike quest. Great buckets full of gratitude for the encouragement and advice. I loved that I heard from women with a range of experience. It was really helpful. I wish so much I could have access to those 76 bike shops, that woman’s biking group, that smiling middle-aged bike shop lady, and Kathi’s knees that are allowing her to love skiing and so love …uh, that thing that isn’t summer. I am inspired! I go forth to find …the bike!

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Originally Posted by Shell R

Holy crap! And I promise, I won’t mention S%*w again, though one salesperson I spoke to showed me a bike that had “all-season” tires, and looked like something out of a Mad Max movie. Your replies were almost as good as a new bike! Ok, not, but your words did have that cool feeling of being cheered on by people you trust. And why do I trust a blog full of strangers? Because you guys all ride bikes! And you’re all women (as far as I know). And your advice was crazy consistent. So, YES, I’ll read Chapter 2 of Every Women’s Guide to Cycling and I’ll get sized by one of the shop pros. BUT, maybe because it’s the end of our mini-season, our 3 bike/hike shops don’t have much for me to ride. The Trek shop has 1 for me to take out but he said it is probably too big. There’s a shop that had a few Jamis and Surly, but they didn’t have any for me to ride, and they seemed more interested in selling me a Globe (offshoot Specialized) which had a monster front carrier thing which looked like it could hold several farm animals. They called it a “lifestyle” bike. Moo. I guess August may not be the time to shop for a bike in Northern Michigan. Which is ok. I don’t mind at all the idea of spending a few months on a bike quest. Great buckets full of gratitude for the encouragement and advice. I loved that I heard from women with a range of experience. It was really helpful. I wish so much I could have access to those 76 bike shops, that woman’s biking group, that smiling middle-aged bike shop lady, and Kathi’s knees that are allowing her to love skiing and so love …uh, that thing that isn’t summer. I am inspired! I go forth to find …the bike!

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Shell R~ I think you are going to fit right it in! :cool:

How about looking for a used mountain bike in your size and getting studded tires and just have crazy fun riding it all winter? Studded tires are good on ice, but not so great on deep snow. For deep snow you'll have to rig something up like a Surly Pugsley (I think that's what it's called). But for regular snow, a mountain bike ought to do the trick. And your bike handling skills will improve alot.

SNOW! It's called SNOW! Embrace it!

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Originally Posted by tulip

For deep snow you'll have to rig something up like a Surly Pugsley (I think that's what it's called).

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Ha, we average 96" of snow/season in my part of MI and my hubby LUSTS after one of those!

Shell, I'm with others who have suggested a cyclocross bike. I have a road bike and a 'cross bike. I have only managed 1 ride on my new CX bike, but as soon as it cools-off and the roads become littered with wet leaves and stuff I will be taking to the backroads...and trying a few races, too.

Cross bikes are nice, unless you can't (or don't want to) do the drop bars. (Or they don't fit--I'm having a hard time finding one that fits my very short torso!)

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Originally Posted by Skierchickie

SNOW! It's called SNOW! Embrace it!

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This much I know: shoveling snow for 5 hours is easier than riding a bike for 5 hours.

Still, I prefer the bike ride.

Test ride a lot and talk to the bike shop people extensively. There is such a huge difference in what they know and how they treat you.

Don't buy used unless you have a very good idea of geometry and fit - I unfortunately did that with my first bike and my shoulder pain from being stretched out doesn't show up until 30 minutes into the ride.

I'll tell you next week how my hopefully "perfect" cyclocross bike feels (Specialized Crux). I did test ride the Specialized Tricross and it was not a comfortable ride. It was also a lot of work for me to get up to my usual speed. The Giant TCX W that I tested was very smooth and fast, but a shade too big and too expensive for me.

Pretty much nowhere else had a cross bike in my size to test or even any bike in my size.

Northern Michigan? If you have time, maybe a nice trip down to Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, or Detroit for more choices.

Is there a group of people on here that just ride the entry level bikes? Like bikes in the 500 dollar range?

As I read and look at the bikes people are riding, it's 1,000's of dollars. What happen to the toy store bike prices?

I know everything has gone up but I don't recall bikes ever costing as much as they do now. What is so technically different now in the 2000's that was different in the 1960's ?

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Originally Posted by tytbody

What is so technically different now in the 2000's that was different in the 1960's ?

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Hmmm. Well, some of it is technology, and some of it isn't. Constantly making components lighter & lighter costs money, for one thing. Your basic 10-speed of the 1960s is the basic 20 or 30 speed today. Etc. Faster, lighter, stiffer, ....

Material prices fluctuate, and a few years ago they skyrocketed. Steel. And oil prices drive everything up. It really seems like bikes have doubled in price in just the last 10 years. Maybe I'm just always looking at bikes that are better than whatever I currently have (after all - why trade down??), so maybe my perception is skewed. I just know that when steel prices went way up for stuff I was having made at work, bike prices were also increasing sharply. Of course, material prices tanked with the economy, but what ever comes down in price?

And, also, it seems like people are willing to pay more and more to have the best. So the best keeps getting better (and more expensive), and everything trickles down. Some of it is a status thing.

Just my thoughts - I may be out to lunch. Have you compared the price (and size) of a loaf of bread to 1960s bread?

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Northern Michigan? If you have time, maybe a nice trip down to Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, or Detroit for more choices.

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If she's near Lake Superior, those places could be 500 miles away. They are for me. She could be a bit closer than I am, but could also be 2 hours farther away. There is Northern Michigan and there is Upper Michigan. Northern Michigan is what they call the northern part of the Lower Peninsula. The Upper Peninsula is on Lake Superior, and is farther north. Weird, I know. Minneapolis and Madison are both actually several hours closer than Detroit or GR, unless she's way over on the eastern end.

@tytbody, bikes used to be sold as "toys", when in fact a good bike is a simple, yet durable piece of machinery that is human powered. They're not toys. I know people who have sold their cars and rely solely on their bikes for all transportation. You get what you pay for when it comes to components, how frames are welded and their material, wheel, hubs, you name it. It's worth the effort to do some research and know what kind of riding you anticipate doing. Don't buy a bike for your needs right now, because there will be a learning curve, but try to anticipate how you will be riding in a year and buy a bike that fits that need. I'm not saying that if you're new to cycling to go buy a $2,000 commuting bike, but sometimes cheap bikes that aren't fit correctly and have problems just aren't enjoyable to ride, so the rider gets discouraged and quits. So there's that $500 bike collecting dust, when if they spent more for a better quality bike that fits they may find riding to be completely enjoyable.

Velocivixen - I don't think what I'm looking at right now is going to be outgrown by me.I'm not planning on racing anyone. Where I live, I sure won't be riding to work. For me, the bike is for fun, exercise, and riding with people. I'm not needing a commuter bike. If I wanted one before, I guess I'd want one now but no, I have no plans on doing that. So, my cheap bike will work just fine and I do believe it will be fitted properly because it is fro my a reputable Bike store and reference on this forum.

What will make me quit is living in New England and cold weather, possibly. We shall see.

And thank you SkierChickie for your thoughts on how they have escalated to now.

Tybody, I live in New England, ride my bike for fun, fitness, and friendship, and have no intention of ever racing. What I think people are telling you is that there is often a progression of what people want in their bikes, as they get more miles under their belt. Even though I don't race, this is my sport and I am serious about it. I didn't start riding seriously until I was in my later forties and 11 years later, I am not about to be on a bike that doesn't fit me correctly. Unlike when we were kids, bikes are not toys. They are serious pieces of equipment, and like with anything else, there are different price points. Big box store bikes are often made poorly and put together incorrectly. That said, you can buy a nice entry level bike for the price you spoke about. But, having a bike fit is important so you are comfortable and happy when you are riding. Otherwise, your bike will just gather dust because you want want to be on it.
Keep an open mind. I am doing a lot of things I could never imagine doing, even 5 years ago. Riding gives you confidence in ways that are unexplainable. And there are cycling clothes that help you deal with cold weather :), most of all wool! Not old fashioned, scratchy wool, but modern day merino or synthetic blend wool , that you can often find at discount or second hand stores.

I'm not upset, I was hopefully trying to explain that I don't plan to do the upper level I guess riding. Maybe things will change. it would be fun if it does for me. i'd be glad.

things in my life haven't changed much from what ever it is I do I guess so I don't feel that my deciding to bike now is going to change. But, it could if this time i get into a group and learn more about the sport.

I hear you on the old fashion wool. The kind that itched my neck I hated. Hated wool sweaters. But I've heard Alpaca wool is great and worth the money...

I want the spirit of riding and exercise.

I have a hybrid that does not fit me very well. It seemed OK for a few miles, but would have neck pain for hours and days after just a short ride. It has big tires which makes it difficult to go very far. I am old and just wanted to have a bike that I could enjoy and go places. My Synapse was $1200, it is considered and entry level road bike. It has skinny tires and is very light. I can fly like the wind and longer distances with very little effort. I struggle to do more than 25 miles and cruise at average of 14mph, so ya gotta know I'm not a racer. But the bike is such that it enables me to do what I want to do without completely incapacitating me for days. I have a 30 gears which makes it much easier to negotiate any hills that I may run into. Not sure what you mean by upper level riding, but I seriously doubt that i fall into that category. I happen to be 56 years old and hope to be able to enjoy this bike for years to come. I take good care of it and am definitely getting my money's worth so far. I, like youi just want the spirit of riding and exercise...one day at a time. :cool:

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Originally Posted by tytbody

Is there a group of people on here that just ride the entry level bikes? Like bikes in the 500 dollar range?

As I read and look at the bikes people are riding, it's 1,000's of dollars. What happen to the toy store bike prices?

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Just wanted to add, we don't all ride expensive bikes. My dh and I have bought many not entry level bikes on sale, used or through auctions, for what would amount to a price range of 500-1000 dollars. But it does cost us extra time and takes a little knowhow and a fair bit of maintenance. The retail price would be about 2-3 times as much.

I can appreciate how neat it must feel to save up and buy that perfect bike, shiny and new! But I bike a lot for transport, they get heavy use in bad weather, I'm not very good at cleaning :rolleyes: and parts wear out. So for my use it's best to have just decent bikes, not a dream bike.

Hey Katz and all. How am I going to know the difference between a well-fit bike and just getting used to riding again?

Say, in the beginning as I will be, I get aches, hands, arms or back.. How do I know it's just an adjustment period versus the bike being ill-fit for me?

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Not sure what you mean by upper level riding

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I guess I mean racing. competing.

the bike I'm ordering won't have the skinny tires. I went between the both, I think they call it. wouldn't mine also be a hybrid if it can go both places? road and off road?

KatzPajamas, your Synapse is a little nicer than "entry-level". ;)

My bike cost $750 new, and is very much an entry-level road bike. My next bike will probably cost double, if not more than triple that amount. I was not expecting to get as into it as I did. Not counting fit issues with this bike, I find there are a number of things I want to change as I add more and more miles. If I had to do it again, you can bet I'd want to spend $1000+ and not be shopping for a replacement 2 years in. I'm not a racer. Nowhere near.
There's no such thing as more bike than you need--just bike that you don't know that you need yet. (Well, pro-level race bikes aside, that is!)

It's like any hobby, I think--as you get more into it, you find yourself wanting to put more and more money into it for better stuff.

I can agree to that Owlie:) I do understand. Now you see, I'll have something to write about later on as I grow into riding. :D

Also, sometimes I think when people start riding, they look at it like running. A lot of people run and quite a few of them compete. They might not compete seriously, but they do 5Ks, 10Ks and train for that. Making the commitment to race in cycling is just a whole lot more. But most people in the US have no idea of what bike racing is all about. You need more equipment, clothing, a team, $ to pay for broken stuff on your bike, and way more time to train. There are some very serious riders here who could compete, but they are happy with club rides or riding on their own/with friends. So yes, there are some fast riders on TE, who can hang with the A group on group rides, but they are not racers. They're having fun.
Did I ever think I'd be riding 50 or 60 miles for a fun weekend activity? No. Did I ever think that just about every vacation I take is a bike tour or cycling/x country skiing related? Never.

Crank-it Crankin:) lol

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Originally Posted by Caddy

Test ride a lot and talk to the bike shop people extensively. There is such a huge difference in what they know and how they treat you.

Don't buy used unless you have a very good idea of geometry and fit - I unfortunately did that with my first bike and my shoulder pain from being stretched out doesn't show up until 30 minutes into the ride.

I'll tell you next week how my hopefully "perfect" cyclocross bike feels (Specialized Crux). I did test ride the Specialized Tricross and it was not a comfortable ride. It was also a lot of work for me to get up to my usual speed. The Giant TCX W that I tested was very smooth and fast, but a shade too big and too expensive for me.

Pretty much nowhere else had a cross bike in my size to test or even any bike in my size.

Northern Michigan? If you have time, maybe a nice trip down to Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, or Detroit for more choices.

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Hey Caddy,

Please do give us a report on the crux, I'm dying to know how it feels on Ann Arbor's "Paved roads". I tried out a TCX W last week and it felt just as rough on a test ride as my hybrid which has an aluminum fork. Too bad your terry was too small for me...... :(

And to tytbody:
I ride a raleigh alysa sport hybrid that cost me $350 on sale new, it was a year old model in a brand the shop was not going to continue, but had been marked as $520 new. I ride 8 miles a day minimum, year round, and after only a year, am now looking to upgrade to a road bike, because 600 mm straight bars suck for the longer (15-30 mile) rides I want to start doing. I had no idea I would like riding for pleasure this much, despite bike commuting on and off for almost 15 years (on a number of really sucky bikes). The 40 pound behemoth I rode for 8 years prior to getting the (22 lb) alysa, actually cost me $100 more for a much lower quality bike. It seems to me that although actual prices do climb (which is called inflation ;) ) the quality of bikes at any specific price point just get better and better as time goes by. And regardless of what price your bike is, everyone has always been warmily welcomed by all you fantastic ladies posting on TE.

thank you girlsubbobscura What makes straight not so good for long distance. But then does the long distance depend on what one calls long distance? the bike I'm getting has straight bars also.

Tytbody: You can absolutely do longer rides on a flat-bar bike. However, most (but not all) people like drop bars for distances because they allow a variety of hand positions, which is important for avoiding injury over long rides. You can minimize some of these issues for flat-bar bikes by adding bar-ends, moving your hands around on the bars, and shaking your wrists out periodically during your rides.

For me, it is a combination of two things. One, the fact that my bars are 600 mm (compared to 380 or 400 mm on a comparable road bike) means that my arms are splayed out at a very wide angle, which gives good control, but pushes the inside edge of my shoulder blades too close toghether, so I start getting an aching, buzzing pain in between my shoulder blades after about 12-14 miles of riding. The second issue is that because there is only one position to put my hands my arms are in the same position for the entire ride which contributes to my general feeling of arm fatigue at about the same point. Also, because of the setup of that single position is probably not ideal for me, it is very easy to forget to keep my elbows bent, and so my elbows and shoulders end up killing me from all the road vibration at this point, too. I never notice it on my daily commute, which is only 4 miles at a go, but if I don't end up buying a new road or cx bike, I think I will need to either shorten the straight bars and change stems, or swap out entirely to road bars (which would unfortunately probably end up costing almost as much as the bike itself, and then I still have the road buzz from an aluminum fork to contend with).

If I never rode more than 10 miles a strech, though, none of these things would be an issue for me, and my Alysa would be the bomb-diggity. So, it all really depends on how much you will ride, how long at a strech, person geaomety etc, etc etc as everyone else has already pointed out.

hope that helps.