Looking for feedback from SRAM users

I am seriously contemplating a bike change in the near future. I have always rode Shimano components (105 and higher) and have generally been happy. However, my current bike, which is equipped with full Ultegra 6700 (except the crank which is an FSA SLK-Light carbon) has been rather disappointing. Without going into all the details of the issues I've had, I am now considering a switch to SRAM...likely the Force gruppo. For those of you that are currently riding SRAM, what do you like about it? What do you dislike about it? I have yet to actually test ride a bike with SRAM, but that is on my immediate agenda. What I am interested in most, is in regards to shifting. With my current bike, I am constantly dealing with extremely hard/stiff shifting. Before anyone asks, yes I have had the bike looked at numerous times, and even had my shifters replaced under warranty. My main issues occur whenever a shift involves the brake lever - so downshifting the rear cog, or upshifting to the big ring. It is my understanding that SRAM does not utilize this technique, and uses a "double-tap" system. Can somebody explain how this works, exactly? Is there no brake lever involvement with SRAM shifting? Thanks!

Linda

Linda -

On your Shimano set you have 2 levers to shift. The brake lever (further from your body) and the smaller lever (closer to your body).

The same is there on SRAM. However, you do not use the brake lever to shift at all.

I have Shimano on my road bike and SRAM on my Bike Friday. Hands down, 100% X 1000000 it's harder to shift my SRAM. I feel I need to HEAVE the chain around manually, instead of the bike doing the work.

Basically, instead of using one lever to go up and another to go down, SRAM has you push the 1 lever to shift one way and the same lever pushed much further to shift the other way. Having spoken to a friend that works at the LBS, she tells me that men generally don't mind SRAM as they have larger hands. But women tend to feel that they have to really shove the levers because of the distance it must travel.

This is compared to Shimano of course.

I'll take some pictures for you of the differences. I won't say I hate SRAM, but I sure won't get them again.

Denise

To give a different viewpoint, I went from Shimano, although lower end, to SRAM Rival, and I love it. For me it doesn't require as much force or as long a reach to do the double tap as it did to shift to the big ring in the front with the Shimano. I didn't expect to like the SRAM, but was testing bikes and the LBS guy encouraged me to try a bike that had it. I did, and immediately just liked the way it worked. The gear shifting with SRAM came very naturally to me. I've ridden almost 1500 miles on it and have no regrets. You really are just going to have to ride one to try it out.

Thanks for the reply, Denise! So wow, I was really hoping to hear that SRAM would be EASIER to shift. Now I'm hesitant. :confused: It's the whole "shoving the lever" thing that is my specific problem. The throw on my Ultegra shifters is just way too damn long, and my weak (and usually painful) hands simply can't tolerate it for very long. I have had this bike back at my LBS more times than I care to count for this very issue. Eventually, I ended up taking it to another bike mechanic and he found that the shift cable for my RD was too short, so he lengthened it and that did help somewhat for awhile. But now it's starting to feel hard and stiff again. And my front ring is an entirely different story...it's been hard to shift from day 1 and even with a brand new replacement shifter, there is zero improvement. It is SO difficult to shift my chain from the small ring to the big one, that I often debate on whether to go down into my small ring on hills because I know it'll be a b!tch moving it back to the big ring. It has never shifted on just one sweep of the lever...it takes me in the ballpark of 3-4 sweeps of the lever before the chain will jump into the big ring. It's extremely frustrating because I always have to take my eyes off the road and LOOK DOWN to confirm if the chain has moved onto the big ring!

Linda

I went from 105 on my first bike (now parked on the trainer) to Force on my second bike. I had no problems with Shimano but now prefer Sram. I'd characterize Shimano as having a mushier feel, while Sram shifts into gear more with a cleaner and more emphatic feel. In my experience the double-tap system is easy to get used to, even switching between bikes (and thus brands) with some regularity. I like having shifting independent of the brake levers. The shape of the hoods is different between the brands and that for me was more of an adjustment than the shifting. If you make the switch, you may find you like gloves with different padding than you've used with Shimano. Enjoy your test ride!

Just read your reply and have to add I just don't find Sram difficult to shift. I would say my 105 is more difficult shifting to the big chain ring.

I just asked my husband--he went from Shimano 105 to SRAM force. He said the F/D on the Force takes some effort. He thinks it was easier to do a front shift with the 105.

Have you considered Campy? I gotta say that the shifting on the various Campy groups I've had is pretty easy.

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Originally Posted by Grits

You really are just going to have to ride one to try it out.

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Couldn't agree more!

I have Ultegra on my Orbea and she shifts like butter. Just a light flick and all is good. I even have a mantra for my rear gearing - "a LITTLE harder" and "a LOT easier" (to remember to use the little lever to make it hard, and the big lever to make it easier)

I find that defined point between the "up" and the "down" shift to be very hard to get past with SRAM. (As does my husband, he's had his SRAM shifters for 2 months now and still can't shift the front chainring well at all) Well, harder for me than on my Ultegra.

I know you know this, but there really isn't any reason Ultegra should be that hard to shift AT ALL. Have you contacted Shimano and told them your story? I would. Because as the manufacturer they may want to know that some LBS can't service their products, or set up their products properly in the first place? And I would tell them you are thinking about going to SRAM due to the issues.

See what they say. You have nothing to lose.

Denise

something isn't right!!

Ultegra shifting should not be that hard even with STI. It is forgiving in adjustment while SRAM is tad more finicky.

My thoughts are: correct cables being used? is the cable housing new or slightly old with potential rust inside? Is the correct cable housing being used for the shifter. Brake cable housing is different than the shifter cable housing so be aware of the difference.
did you pour oil into the cable housing? (gummy up the cable travel inside)

And is the shifter adjusted properly?
Is the front derailuer mounted at the correct place on the seat tube. etc. ?

I went from 105 to Rival...I will never go back to Shimano. It never felt 2nd nature to me, even after riding 3500 miles. SRAM isn't as quiet, but I have dealt with a LOT less hesitation and only one dropped chain in over 2300 miles. My 105 was notorious for just randomly dropping--not even while shifting (I'm sure this is in part to having been a triple--my SRAM set-up is a compact double). No one could ever find anything "wrong" with it, it was just flaky.

SRAM is just is more intuitive for me, too. On my 105 I was forever shifting in the wrong direction.

(Bikes are hanging in the shop, pardon the upside-down-ness)

http://www.wanderingtiki.com/wp-cont...1642353260.jpg
Pushing just past this point will get my R/D to shift down 1 I think. I have to push much further/harder past that to shift up (compared to Ultegra). Notice how I have to hook my thumb around to get enough pressure to push this over.

same position below - but on Ultegra

http://www.wanderingtiki.com/wp-cont...1642421629.jpg
Very easy to get to this position, very little force needed at all. Even with the bike hanging free from the ceiling, I didn't need to use much pressure.

I went from Shimano Tiagras to SRAM Apex, and i love my new setup. This could just be the result of jumping so far ahead, and also the fact that was using 10-year-old technology, but it rocks.

I have better control and much smoother shifting on the SRAM. It did not take me long to get used to the shifting technique.

I love, love, love my SRAM shifters! I went from Dura Ace to Rival and it's made a big difference in my ease of shifting. The reach was way too long with Shimano, even with their shims in. SRAM fits perfectly from every position. I don't really think the shifting is harder. The levers are in a better position and I've never had trouble shifting. Plus, I had one SRAM lever break and they replaced it, no questions asked. It wasn't even the current model. When my Ultegra shifter broke last year, that was it. I had to buy a new shifter.

I also went from 105 to Rival, and I'm happy with the change. I don't often shift chain rings, because I tend to have knee problems with the big chain ring. I did have shifting problems when I was playing around with the big chain ring a couple of months ago, but that was because it needed an adjustment. Since then it's okay.

My current handlebars are smaller than the old ones (WSD vs not), and I think that makes it a bit easier for me to shift and brake now vs. before.

But yeah, you should do a test ride to see for yourself.

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Originally Posted by bluebug32

I love, love, love my SRAM shifters! I went from Dura Ace to Rival and it's made a big difference in my ease of shifting. The reach was way too long with Shimano, even with their shims in. SRAM fits perfectly from every position. I don't really think the shifting is harder. The levers are in a better position and I've never had trouble shifting.

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I had short-reach Shimano shifters and the reach was STILL too long. SRAMs adjusted right are perfect.

I went from Campy to SRAM, am perfectly happy with the SRAM.

I regularly switch between Ultegra and Rival, depending on the bike. I like them both, although they each have their strengths and weaknesses, as pointed out above.

It took me a couple of test rides on a Sram-equipped bike before I felt comfortable ordering one. Go do a bunch of test rides....it's the only way to know.

On a semi-related note, have you ridden any other 6700-equipped bikes and had the same issues? Sometimes it's not the drivetrain, it's the frame.... (Not trying to talk you out of a change, just thinking out loud!)

I've been riding the same Campy for almost 17 years. Absolutely love it. Short throw, easy to shift. I have arthritis in both hands, so easy shifting is a must. If/when I replace my bike/components, I'll go with Campy, hands down (pun intended :p)

If you have problems with pain in your hands, perhaps you should look at an electronic shifting system?

I would have to say the opposite of Denise.

SRAM is meant for smaller hands. Where I used to be in the drops(same bars) and barely be able to reach around my Shimano levers to brake and shift, SRAM is nice and compact and everything is right there.

I have ridden Shimano then SRAM then back to SHIMANO, played with Campy on a rented bike and then finally back to SRAM on the new bike(never wanted to go away from SRAM but when I bought the old bike, it came with shimano and the company I was working for went under- so $$ was tight).

I feel that SRAM may take a little getting used to from shimano- but once you do, you will wonder how you ever were without :)

Rode SRAM last night.

I have to use 2 fingers to throw my front chain to the larger wheel. And sometimes I use 2 fingers to get the reach for the shift on the R/D.

Another thing to note: On Shimano if you need to slightly adjust a shift, you can use the same lever. On SRAM, if I miss a shift or mess it up, I usually end up shifting the opposite of what I wanted due to it using the same lever. Hard to explain, but I don't feel I have the tiny "tweak" control on SRAM that I do on Shimano.

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Originally Posted by hulagirl

Rode SRAM last night.

I have to use 2 fingers to throw my front chain to the larger wheel. And sometimes I use 2 fingers to get the reach for the shift on the R/D.

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I have one of the earlier versions of SRAM, so forgive my ignorance...things may have changed. Do the SRAM shifters still have the pivoting feature in the shift lever? That is to say, I can pull the shift lever closer to me to get more "purchase" on it before making my shift and without activating the brakes... I have found that it really helps with the direction that has the more-forceful throw.

Thank you EVERYONE, for the valuable feedback! Clearly, there are lots of differing opinions on SRAM...which I fully expected. Like several of you have pointed out...I will have to try it out for myself to see if I like it.

To answer some questions that were asked -

@smilingcat - I've had 2 separate bike shops look at this issue. Between the 2 shops, there were 6 mechanics that actually looked at the bike and all of them agreed that there was indeed a problem, but none could offer a solution or fix. Between these 2 shop/6 mechanics, we tried new cable & new housing, new cassette, new chain, new shifters, and more RD adjustments than I can even recall. All of this was at my expense, except for the shifters, which were replaced under warranty by Shimano. I finally took the bike to an independent mechanic and he was the one who suggested lengthening the cable because there was such a tight loop right where the cable goes into the RD, that he felt it was creating a lot of friction..thus causing the hard to move shifter. He replaced the cable with a brand new one (and new housing) only in a longer length making the "loop" at the RD entry much larger. I immediately felt a difference in the downshifting. It's been about a month since then, and now it's starting to feel stiff again. I feel as though I've exhausted every option up to this point.

@blue_angel - I would love to consider Di2, or even the new Ultegra electronic that is due out soon...but the cost factor of electronic shifting is preventing me from doing so. Believe me...I have seriously contemplated it, but DH is standing in the way.

@hulagirl - What you just described in your last post about using 2 fingers to move the SRAM shifter....THAT is what I go through with my Shimano shifters. Infact, for the big ring...I require all 4 of the fingers on my left hand to move that lever...it is THAT difficult to move. And, on top of that...I either have to HOLD the lever in that position until the chain "catches" onto the big ring...OR...I have to continuously push the lever over and over again (usually as much as 3-4 times) before the chain goes onto the big ring. It gets to the point where if I'm approaching a hill, I just say "F it!" and stay in the big ring and mash my way up instead of dropping down into the small ring and spinning up the hill.

So...with all that said, my goal this weekend is to find a shop that has a bike on the floor equipped with SRAM (and maybe even Campy) in my size, and go ride it. I'll never know unless I try it for myself. I don't want to be stuck with another new bike, wondering if I would have liked another component group better than Shimano.

Linda

Linda,

I had the same issue with Shimano as you(needing to use 4 fingers!) So for me 2 fingers on SRAM is great.

And i forgot who asked about the ability to bring the lever in on the newer SRAM- that is still an option! which i why it is so great for smaller hands.

Linda - make sure you ask to ride the set that has the LEAST reach on the bars. I rode a few different Shimano sets that had such long hoods that I could barely reach the shifters. I know it's a matter of model on Shimano and it's probably the same with SRAM. So even if one SRAM doesn't work, another might. And what's even more apparent is the same SRAM might be different on different bikes. (frustrating!)

Try other Shimano as well - everything and anything they have. You just never know.

And keep us posted. This is fascinating stuff!

I just realized today (duh!) that I an running SRAM Via on my commuter. It's not a road group though, and doesn't use the double tap. That being said, I have had a significant number of jumps when shifting through the cassette. Shifting the chainrings has been fine.

This worries me. I am in the early stages of designing/thinking about a ti road bike with very low gears and couplers. The ideal set up would be the SRAM with the rear mountain gears in a compact, but truthfully, it sounds like I would have a lot of issues dealing with the jumping back and forth from that to Ultegra on my carbon bike. And, since I got the Ultegra short reach brifters, combined with a short and shallow bar, reach is a non-issue. I may have to go with an Ultegra triple and a different type of mountain rd.
I am not good with changes, either.

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Originally Posted by Crankin

This worries me. I am in the early stages of designing/thinking about a ti road bike

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<SLURP!>

I'm lusting after Litespeeds myself.

But, not to hijack the thread...

My LBS said that they like Campy because if something goes bad, you can take it apart, replace the bad part & put it together again. They said with Shimano, you throw it all away. I had to replace something in my shifters (springs? I'm not a mechanic at all) several years ago & they gave me this info. Don't know about SRAM, but replacing the one little part saved a bunch of $$.

That's what they told me. I have no idea if it's true. I'm sure I'll get corrected if it isn't! :D

So yesterday I was able to test ride a Felt F3 with SRAM Red and a Madone 6.1 with SRAM Force. Both bikes were too big for me, but that didn't matter as I was really only testing the components. I have no doubt in my mind that I am a SRAM convert. :p I loved everything about it. It felt smooth and easy to me. The best part was that I didn't find myself having to take my eyes off the road to look down and see if my chain was on the ring. I have no idea when or if it will happen, but my next bike will most definitely be SRAM. Makes it that much harder to get back on my Shimano-equipped bike, knowing that I love the SRAM stuff that much more. :D

Linda

SRAM is nice. I have it on two of my bikes.

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Originally Posted by nscrbug

So yesterday I was able to test ride a Felt F3 with SRAM Red and a Madone 6.1 with SRAM Force. Both bikes were too big for me, but that didn't matter as I was really only testing the components. I have no doubt in my mind that I am a SRAM convert. :p I loved everything about it. It felt smooth and easy to me. The best part was that I didn't find myself having to take my eyes off the road to look down and see if my chain was on the ring. I have no idea when or if it will happen, but my next bike will most definitely be SRAM. Makes it that much harder to get back on my Shimano-equipped bike, knowing that I love the SRAM stuff that much more. :D

Linda

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I did like SRAM when I tested it. At the end, I went with the Synapse 3 because I did not want to go over my budget. It is also lighter, at every level, than Shimano. SRAM is based in Chicago, so spare parts arrive pretty fast.