Road ID Safety Commercial - Disagree

Road ID has been running a commercial during TDF coverage that has safety tips for riding in traffic. Most of it is pretty good, but there is one point that I strongly disagree with.

They show a group of riders coming up on a line of traffic that's stopped at a red light, and they say the riders should pass the stopped cars on the right and position themselves at the front. I think this is specifically against the law, at least in Kansas, and as a driver it perturbs me when cyclists do this because 1. I have to pass the slow moving traffic again, and 2. I can't always see the bike coming up beside me.

Did I miss something in the commercial, or are laws different in other parts of the country?

I thought this was a no-no, too.

Haven't seen that one. We all run in to watch the Bobke Road ID adds, love them.
So, without seeing it - what about cars turning right? I often don't do this as I'm afraid of the right hook. I'd stay just behind the rear bumper of the last car in line.
With a big bike lane and really good visibility, I'd move on up, though.

I believe this is the one you are talking about. I've never seen or heard of this 'bike box' thing, either

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh542...feature=relmfu

We have bike boxes in Portland at dangerous intersections. Very handy.

We have bike boxes at a few intersections in NYC. I don't think I've ever seen an auto driver respect them. They are useful only if the bike gets there first.

What the video describes is common (at least in Manhattan and Brooklyn) and I think legal in New York.

I am not sure if it's legal here, but most cyclists do it.
If it's a dicey situation, lots of traffic, hardly any space and chance of a right hook, I take the lane. On roads around here that I am familiar with and there's lots of cyclists who do this, I will ride alongside the cars.
My DH does this in situations that are dangerous, in my opinion. He has good handling skills (excellent, really), but I don't like it. He doesn't do it when he's with me, though.

Seattle is experimenting with bike boxes. IMHO they only work if there is a bike lane (which in general I don't like to use as out here they tend to be up against parked cars) and then I'm not sure what exactly they accomplish.... they do make the intersection that they are at "No Right On Red" - which I do like, but you don't really need a bike box for that. I'd like to see *all* of the intersections in the city be no right on red unless signed otherwise myself.

As far as coming up on the side of traffic, it's not specifically illegal out here. For me it depends on the situation. If it is a few cars at a stop sign, I'll wait my turn. If it is heavy traffic and its not going much of anywhere, I'm not going to wait in it if I don't have to.

I disagree with the commercial, given the situation shown (single travel lane). I was particularly surprised to see who was dispensing that advice- none other than Bob Mionske, the bicycle lawyer! He of all people should know that this is an illegal manuever in some states.

Are you sure it's illegal in your state?


Ohio allows passing on the right "Upon a roadway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles moving lawfully in the direction being traveled by the overtaking vehicle." The important word there IMO is "lines" - so it would be legal on a road with a bike lane OR a wide enough shoulder, but not when you have to thread between cars and curb, and/or take your chances on a car not squeezing you off.

Another way of looking at it - and getting the same result - is whether the road is wide enough for THEM to pass YOU safely without going into the adjacent lane. If the answer is no - i.e., if it's a situation where you should take the whole lane - then it's no fair for you to have it both ways when traffic stops for a light. ;)

That would be my practice whether or not I'd looked it up.

I walked into the room this morning just as that part of the commercial was on, and I yelled at the TV. I take the lane at intersections. I used to ride up the right and move to the front (still staying on the right), and drivers would pull all kinds of stupid dangerous moves trying to get past me as soon as the light changed. And as a driver, I can't stand it when a cyclist that I have patiently waited to pass comes up and passes me at an intersection, making me have to wait again until it's safe to pass them again.

Not only that but you when you pass a stopped car on the right hand side you are riding in a blind spot, and drivers around here rarely leave much room in front of them for a biker to pass on the right, pull in front.

Around here the safest interpretation is to take the lane directly behind another car, signal that you are going straight and pray. In other words, you behave like an automobile.

Don't know if that's the law but that is the safest way to be seen.

marni

Never mind about legality, if you pass a line of cars on the right and get in front of the lead car going straight- that's just going to pi$$ off all those drivers that just passed you when they have to RE-PASS you.

I wouldn't ever do it just for that reason. I just get in line behind the cars and go through the intersection like a car.
I think that was poor advice, for sure.

Never seen a bike box, but I still don't know that I'd do it...

I saw another one of these ads that had me scratching my head. It appeared to be a group of cyclists demonstrating how to ride on the shoulder of a limited-access highway...how to safely cross an exit ramp.

WTF?! I didn't even think it was legal for bicycles to be on interstate highways in any state. None that I've spent time in, anyhow.

You couldn't pay me to ride on an interstate.

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

I saw another one of these ads that had me scratching my head. It appeared to be a group of cyclists demonstrating how to ride on the shoulder of a limited-access highway...how to safely cross an exit ramp.

WTF?! I didn't even think it was legal for bicycles to be on interstate highways in any state. None that I've spent time in, anyhow.

You couldn't pay me to ride on an interstate.

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I-70 through the Rockies is open to bicycles simply because it's the only road in the area. I've never been on it on a bici, but from a car (where things often look MORE dangerous to bicis than they do when you're actually riding) it looks perfectly safe - safer in fact than a whole lot of four-lanes I can think of.

I think there are some other stretches of interstate that are not horsepower-restricted, but that's the only one I know for sure.

I think what would concern me most about the interstate is the amount of debris...and around these parts people think nothing of passing on the right when traffic backs-up.

In Washington, generally, bicycle access to the shoulder of freeways is only limited around the busier urban/suburban areas. As in Colorado there are places that there just aren't other options. Not that I think it would be any fun......

I just dealt with this this morning on a charity ride in Indiana/Michigan. My father is not used to riding with other cyclists and thanks to the BAD actions of others who didn't pass us correctly and edged up to the front like is described here, he learned a lot about road "manners". I explained why this was dangerous and when we came to a stop, we took the lane. I always, always do that because people tend not to respect you otherwise. Likewise, even WHEN I take the lane, some idiots will drive up on the shoulder to get around me at a 4 way stop if I am going straight. Idiots.

We saw a lot of good riding, but a lot of bad today. It really peeves me because learning this from other cyclists in a group ride is SO FREAKING SIMPLE. No need to pay money or anything. Just go ride with a group one time and you will learn so much more and be SAFER!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

I saw another one of these ads that had me scratching my head. It appeared to be a group of cyclists demonstrating how to ride on the shoulder of a limited-access highway...how to safely cross an exit ramp.

WTF?! I didn't even think it was legal for bicycles to be on interstate highways in any state. None that I've spent time in, anyhow.

You couldn't pay me to ride on an interstate.

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I can think of at least a couple of places where I need to cross ramps. It's legal (and safe) to ride on the roads in question; however, I have to cross the entrance and exit ramps of other highways at certain stretches. It's not my favorite thing to do, but to not do so severely hampers my route options. There's just no other way around. In general, I signal well in advance, assume nothing, take the lane, and sprint my tail off.

YMMV.

I have ridden on I-19 between Tucson and Nogales- there is no frontage road for one or two short sections. But I think we were able to get on at the entrance and exit at the next one...

Like some of the responses, I take the lane of the direction I am going. But I would not pass stopped cars to take the front of the lane. Taking the lane instead of hovering to the right no matter what direction you are going does not allow then drivers to know your intentions.

I agree, I just act like a car, and get in whatever lane is right for the direction I am traveling, behind the cars in that lane.

There are several roads near me where there is an on-off ramp to an interstate (I'm not on the interstate but on a road where there is an entrance ramp TO the interstate). Again, if I am able, I take the lane with the traffic going straight if it's not a high speed road. If not, I do what the cyclist in the video did and that's to watch for traffic behind... ride very defensively in this situation.

Here's a link on laws for using the Interstate:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/faq.htm#question15

In Kansas, bicycles are prohibited from using the Interstate. However, there are still some four-lane divided highways, U.S. highways and State highways, where bicyclists can ride. There is also a major interchange in my hometown that involves an Interstate, a Kansas highway, and a major city street which we've biked through (on the city street - which gets the least and the slowest traffic). Going through (and not using the off ramps) is scary, especially when the car traffic behind us doesn't signal, but the drivers don't usually seem to know what to expect from the bikes, either. We usually either stop on the shoulder (giving the stop signal) well back from the off ramp, or if there is a break in traffic we look over our shoulders, give a left signal, and move into the right through lane. If we're lucky, there is little or no traffic behind us and fortunately, that is often the case there. Besides the area with that interchange, I avoid that kind of riding.

The only one that I can think of is on the Missouri/Illinois border where there is no alternative and cyclists have to cross the grate with no shoulder. There is a sign when you cross into Illinois that the need to exit at the next exit.

This may be neither here nor there, but where I bike there are the occasional bike lanes, but they are not marked through intersections. Instead they fade out before the intersection (yeah, brilliant, I know...) In that situation I will fairly often move to the front of the line, passing stopped cars on the right (NOT moving cars, which is a whole other ball game), position myself visibly in front, and then "sprint my tail off" as mentioned when the light changes. That way I'm seen, and safely across and in the bike lane before car traffic catches up to me.