Well in terms of fatalities in certain areas of Taiwanese cities.
But then some city driving styles, can be dangerous --not better than North America.
My partner looked at their cycling infrastructure while he was there.
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Well in terms of fatalities in certain areas of Taiwanese cities.
But then some city driving styles, can be dangerous --not better than North America.
My partner looked at their cycling infrastructure while he was there.
Ugh...I hate motorcyclists on the road. They seem to be of the mentality that everyone should be looking out for them as the weave in and out of traffic. I'm not sure that they get that they're smaller than cars and more difficult to see.
I haven't had to deal with them from a biking standpoint, though. I'm imagine they can be a pain in the *** in the bike lanes too.
UM, some of bicyclists are moto riders too! Let's all draw some generalities and look at everyone who rides a moto in the same light!
I've had wonderful experiences with motorcyclists. Yes, there are crazies out there, wacky pedestrians, nutso cyclists, skateboarders, unicyclists, cross country skiers converting the skis to roller blades and OMG people on trikkes :eek: :rolleyes: ;)
But I've often experienced what feels like a bond of "4 wheels bad, two wheels good" with motorcyclists. :cool:
I got lost on my 1st attempt at a multi day tour. I stopped at a dive for a drink and a pee while getting back on route. A motorcycle gang was there. :eek: One of them overheard me tell the bartender that I was riding from San Francisco to the Russian River and back and was a leetle off course.
So they made it their gang goal to escort me back to the route. :D
They sent one of their riders from the bar out down the road and then back to their bar, then another one would pass me and wave and then back to the bar ... this went on till I was safe on the right road. :D
I've been on descents where motorcyclists slowed entering car traffic till I or my group get past. They know more than many drivers how tough it is for us to brake on a descent.
You don't forget this kind of help. To say nothing of our "moto crew" on the California AIDS ride, those guys and gals are angels.
Spazzdog on this board has told me about a couple of instances on the New York AIDS rides. In one case the riders were on a two level bridge. I don't know New York but I think this is one that enters the city? The riders were on the upper deck with opposing traffic below. I don't know how it happened but she says a rider fell through to the lower deck as a group of motorcyclists were speeding head on towards the fallen cyclists. The motorcyclists stopped creating a V shape around the rider protecting him till help arrived.
Motorcyclists face many of the same issues we do especially visibility and vulnerability of car crashes. We should be working together. We have a lot to learn from each other.
Yup. The Gold Wing Motorcycle folks volunteer as SAGs/escorts on the Seattle to Portland ride. They're wonderful.
What I've found striking is how many motorcyclists will wave at me as we meet, but how few other cyclists will. I frequently have gotten the "hey, you're clad in spandex, I'm clad in leather...but we're both at risk from inattentive, inconsiderate cagers. Hi!" vibe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
Right! Which makes perfect sense when I am on my road bike in my leather chaps and bar vest and the guy on the Harley hog's wearing a Radioshack team kit and PI tights. ;) :D :pQuote:
Originally Posted by zoom-zoom
But seriously we both appreciate that we're drawn to and enjoy that feeling of the freedom of the open road, the whole wind in your face thang.
Except the problem in Taiwan is that there is an abnormally high fatality rate of motorcyclists..part of it cutting in and out without signalling by motorcyclists plus some of the car drivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
Cyclists there look positively sedate, according to dearie. It is a cultural difference, where people might gravitate to using motorcycle or mopeds instead of a bike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muirenn
Sorry...I stand behind my opinion as someone who drives on the Los Angeles freeways and as someone with a brother who was a motorcycle rider until he was rear-ended by a guy in a pickup. Fortunately, he was wearing a helmet and lived to tell about it. His Blackhawk wasn't so lucky.
I don't dispute that the vast majority of riders are kind and decent humans. I do, however, dislike driving near them and I believe that everyone--including the riders themselves-- would be safer if they didn't exist, or at least weren't allowed on the highways.
And :) I can see why drivers don't like cyclists. We are as much of a danger to the unaware driver as motorcyclists. As a runner, I've had my issues with "us" also when certain cyclists don't follow the rules of the road, or come down the path screaming for those of us all the way on the right to get out of "their" way.
We all have to share. We don't all have to like it. :)
Did my usual 1 hour 5 minute ride today after watching the Tour in the morning. No idea how fast nor how far; I don't really care. I was out for an hour, which was my goal.
Oops! How did this end up in the moto thread?? It was meant for the ride thread. Too lazy to move it. Carry on!
A "danger" in what way? That they might hit us while texting or playing with their radio or turning to yell at their kids in the backseat and receive a slap on the wrist for being dumb@sses behind the wheel...? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphire
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by spokewench
ETA - I was going to say a lot more, but decided against it. Several of you (non moto riders I think) have identified the spirit of mutual vulnerability that we share as cyclists and motorcyclists. I feel that whether I am in leather or spandex.
And I can't imagine a situation in which any respectable motorcyclst would ride a motorcycle in the bike lane. or how a cyclist is a "danger" to an unaware driver.
Hmmm...I can see this...maybe the word 'hazard' is more appropriate than danger. Think about as a driver if you were to swerve to avoid a cyclist who rides out in front of your car and then you hit another car.Quote:
Originally Posted by zoom-zoom
I'd say the key is for everyone to be a little bit more conscious of everyone else.
On the subject of texting, I actually ride with someone who texts while she rides. She also does it while she drives. She's dangerous to EVERYONE, including herself! I can totally imagine her causing an accident one day while she's updating her facebook status to say she's out on her bike.
It so nice to be hated, thanks. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphire
This attitude is the problem that is so prevelant on the road; cars hate motorcycles, cars hate cyclists, cyclists hate pedestrians, etc., etc. This is what we need to do away with. We are all co-users of the road and we need to co-exist and be more aware, and accepting of others.
This is how we should react, not I hate this and I hate that. Consideration, awareness, this is what we need. There are always people in different arenas, be it cycles, motos, cars that don't follow rules, laws and are not considerate, but this should not be a measure of all.
I ride motos, I do not weave in and out of traffic, I am quite aware that I am not as visible as a car, but I do expect that others look for me a bit and also that they see me on a bike as well. I should Say I hope they see me and expect that if they do, that they respect my right to use a form of transportation that is not the norm.
As a motorcyclist AND a bicyclist, I am confused and somewhat offended by Sapphire's comments. The fact that she boldly states that motorcyclists should not EXIST on the highways is just about the silliest thing I have ever read on this forum. A lot of what I learned from motorcycling has easily transferred over to my cycling, and vice-versa. And for what it's worth, I have wrecked on my motorcycle (was lucky to walk away unscathed from it) yet I certainly don't share the sentiment that we shouldn't exist out there. All I can say to that is...WOW!
I will limit myself to pointing out that a former MotoGP champion and a former World Superbike champion are riding the Maratona dles Dolomites together tomorrow. That the first man to win five consecutive World Superbike races has finished on the podium at Moab. Do I even need to mention Team Elbowz, or the fact that bicis are the preferred training for most professional motorcyclists right now?
Pax said it best. This is disgusting.
Wow...um...there are clearly a lot of strong feelings on this. For my money, most of the reaction is to a post where someone expressed a dislike for something. So what? I have a dog. There's a big bru-ha-ha in my neighborhood about dogs being allowed or not in the park. Some people don't like them or want them there...I tend not to take it personally.
Did anyone read the article the original poster linked to? It was about trying to move people from motorcycles to bicycles. I found it pretty interesting. It's certainly a valid conversation for several reasons. I haven't been on this forum very long, but it has seemed like a place where people can express preferences for different things. I would like to see some discussion on the issues in the OP...anyone?
but since we have our motorcyclists here and this is related:
A close friend just bought a used Vespa. She figures to use it around town, ride to BART (train), says it'll be safe. It's not freeway rated.
I told her that's great, I'm excited for her. I asked if she's taking the class offered by the Highway Patrol or any other motorcycle course.
She says "what? :confused: That costs over $200" :eek::confused:
She has a helmet, that's it.
If I got a Vespa I'd figure the $200 is less than extended care learning to feed myself again. I imagine some get a motorcycle and think "It's like driving, I can drive .. :rolleyes:." but there are very different skills. Just as new cyclists feel "it's like riding a bicycle" very easy to do but there's much to learn.
LOL...you sound like my mother. Her favorite saying is, "it's cheaper than the emergency room."Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
I keep on my forgetting: one of my brothers-in-law has a Vespa that he rides regularily to and from work. He enjoys his Vespa and does exercise care only to ride during certain seasons of the year.
He has 2 young children. My sister does not ride the Vespa...she walks, transit or drives. She's not interested in trying. She is a jogger when she can squeeze in time. They have 1 car.
They live very close to downtown Toronto. He works in downtown Toronto.
I think I have a problem: I don't see my family enough and I keep on forgetting alot of stuff about them!!
When we were in Greece ...over 25 years ago, on one of the islands there was motorcycle rental for a low rate. So my friends used them for about an hr. No helmet. It actually shocked me...at that time, because of some of the speeds that I saw. And I know my friends had no previous motorcycling experience. I absolutely did not want to try..and part of it was related to my distrust..of driving a car.
I had not even returned to cycling at that time.
You never know who people are on the internet or who you'll meet. Maybe I am your mother ;) :p :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen12
prejudiced ideas about those who ride "crotch rockets" ... BUSTED!
So there I was having a nice lunch today on the open front patio of a restaurant when guy backs his "crotch rocket" into a parking directly in front of me. I was not thinking pleasant thoughts, as I've noticed that most guys riding crotch rockets tend to be the ones weaving in and out of traffice as compared to someone riding a Goldwing. So there I was thinking not nice things about the young punk, when he takes of his helmet... dude was in his 50s, and he set at the table next me. Was a nice guy.
My personal experience is basically been good with motorcycle riders. The m/c club that rides escort with the LA-MS 150 Tour for the Cure are saints, there was the group of Christian Motorcycle Association that set up a field kitchen in Chalmette, LA in the immediate days after Katrina, the guy that was out for a nice sunday ride and stopped for us when we were broken down on the side of the freeway 5 miles east of Yuma, AZ in early September (pre-cell phone days) and no one else did.
So if maniacs want to test the laws of gravity and fate and ride their bikes like idiots, I'll be more than happy to dial 911 when they wreck. They have a right to the road just as much as anyone else. Drunk drivers on the otherhand, well don't get me started.
Yep, motorcycles are dangerous. Mostly to the motorcycle rider, same as a bicycle.
I think that people who ride motorcycles are more likely to be aware of anyone on two wheels, and give extra courtesy to bicycles, even when the MC rider is in his or her car.
I too drive on the LA freeways. Motorcycles take up less space and help alleviate traffic, something we really need here. They also get waaaay better gas mileage than a car - 80-100 mpg rocks. Splitting lanes is legal in California, so you do have to watch out for them. Overall, though, I feel like motorcycles have a positive impact.
All that said, if someone I love was in a motorcycle accident, even if they were relatively ok, I'd be pretty freaked out. I kind of understand where Sapphire is coming from, even though I don't agree with her.