Totally off topic - but I'm pleased...

So I feel like my job stinks, my students seem to lack the abilitiy to do any higher thinking skills. They are the champions of the stupid question. Yes there are stupid questions. And how many times must I answer the same question because they don't listen to each other...

Last year's group was much the same way. But I got my state testing results today from last year. In the 5 different Language Arts areas my class last year scored 5 - 9% higher than the state average in all areas. I know that's not an important statistical deviation - but they were all higher! And I don't think of Language Arts as my area of strength. And I did more of my own thing and not so much of the state adopted text. (BORING!) My boss is often on me to do more of the state adopted text.

Math which I consider my area of strength was not so good overall. I was -1% in one area, over by 2% in two. But the other two areas were +10% and + 15%.

So, well testing isn't everything - it's nice to see I don't actually suck at this and my kids did learn something. Or they are just really good guessers. :p

Maybe there's hope for this year's group.


V.

What year/s or grades do you teach? They can't be "just good guessers" for the whole of them to improve by percentage points, you know. Give yourself all the credit that you're due! You must be a good teacher.

And speaking of off-topic, if you hate your job you should write copy for Patagonia. I lusted after the cashmere hoody you described and bought it. :o I love it, too! I took my oldest daugher (HS senior) on a college visit trip this week up East. (We just got home tonight.) My hoody was my constant wraparound companion all week. Thanks for the tip!

I don't really hate my job. But there does seem to be a downward trend in the behavior and academic readiness. I've been treaching for 13 years. And these kids seem to need a lot of attention - positive or negative. I think that's where a lot of the dumb questions come in.

I used to be able to give the students a task and they could work for 30 - 60 minutes with little input from me. This group can't work for a minute. They don't want or don't know how to do any independent thinking. I'm not sure how to teach that. I do find that when I tell them they have to think for 5 minutes before I'll help them - they often to seem to figure out what to do. That gets old though.

I'm glad you like the sweater. :) What color did you get? I've got black and I'dike to get a pink.

V.

You should feel good about this. There is great satisfaction to be found in helping others to succeed. Considering your frustration with this year's class, I think you need to keep hope for this year's group. That or set aside a large chunk of your budget for Advil and Alcohol which is not recommended. :cool:

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Originally Posted by SadieKate

You should feel good about this. There is great satisfaction to be found in helping others to succeed. Considering your frustration with this year's class, I think you need to keep hope for this year's group. That or set aside a large chunk of your budget for Advil and Alcohol which is not recommended. :cool:

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I don't really drink. I think it's because I like things to be really cold. So when I do drink it's those always those slushy things. The smell of beer makes me want to hurl.

I do wonder if I'm allergic to something in my room - or the smelly stuff one of my kids wears. He just reeks some days! Today I told him he needed to go a little lighter on the spray. You could smell it across the room.

V.

Veronica,
When I taught LD resource, I always felt like I was spinning my wheels, that the kids were not really progressing. Then I'd do my end of the year assessments and found out that they really had learned alot. So, congrats on your testing results, and know that you are reaching kids. And I would guess you are teaching many other things besides "the test," and your students are growing in ways that no test can assess. All your efforts are worth the energy spent. Go forth and teach! And then ride all your frustrations away!
Jan

Sounds like you are doing a good job to me, since their scores were higher than state averages last year. The bunch this year will probably surprise you next year.

Teaching is one of the most important professions and so underpaid considering the charge of the profession, i.e., developing the little minds today to lead tomorrow. I am glad to know some kids have you as their teacher!

Keep up the good work and enjoy the rest of the year. It takes special people such as yourself to teach.

I'm one of the parents who hates the MCAS tests in Massachusetts. I think they have stifled teachers and creativity in the classroom. Everyone teaches for the test all year. There are no more interesting projects or creative teaching. Kids never learn how to think outside the box. What if a kid is just not good at taking tests. Should that be our only measure?
I admire teachers, I know I couldn't do it. In the age of instant gratification, cell phones, videos, computers, and xbox, its a wonder you can keep their attention at all!!!!

My two cents to a fellow biker---teachers deserve our utmost respect, encouragement and appreciation. My children range from 5th thru 11th grade, and I have seen what they are up against. I too think it gets harder and harder to teach. And I shouldn't even get started on the testing issue. Next week my daughter will not start school until noon for 3 days---as the sophmores will be undergoing testing. And lets not forget the PRACTICE tests! I'm glad that you as a teacher have found satisfaction in your test results. But I place less importance on that performance ruler than on the effect you and all of our teachers have on our children's lifes. Now go ride your bike!

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Originally Posted by Surlygirl

I think they have stifled teachers and creativity in the classroom. Everyone teaches for the test all year. There are no more interesting projects or creative teaching. Kids never learn how to think outside the box.

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That's one reason I was so thrilled with my scores. We're supposed to use this really boring text. Most of the stories have no meat to them. I did three units from it and taught five age appropriate novels instead. Three of which are adopted by my district as Core Lit. The other two were Lit. Circles - kind of like a book club. 4 kids read the same book and discuss it. So I had 8 different books being read in my class at the same time. Makes for a lively classroom.

Considering that my kids scored above the district average, I would say my approach worked. And I did not have all super brilliant kids. :)

The trouble is - our kids as a group are failing. And no politician really wants to put the blame where it belongs. There are people who should not have children, but they do and they don't take any responsibility for their kids' education or moral values. And I'm not talking about religion. I mean basic things that most people agree are wrong - lying, stealing, cheating and abuse of others.

25% of my students this year have questionable home lives. And I teach in a pretty decent area.


V.

Kudos to you, V. You've obviously made their learning interesting and relevant, which is the holy grail of teaching if you ask me. :) I've been in a lot of different classrooms since I started teaching over here. I'm constantly amazed at how much evidence I see of teachers teaching to conventions rather than teaching to meet students' needs, and believe me, kiddos in North/East London (where almost all my work is) have plenty of 'em.

One of my friends had a pretty effective (for that class, at least - I think they were a little younger than yours, but still not the easiest lot) system for getting rid of the stupid questions: c 3 b4 me. Basically, the kids had to ask someone else at their table, someone else in their group and then someone else in a higher group before they were allowed to ask her.

I think this deserves another cashmere jersey my friend! Isn't funny sometimes how these things just "pop-up" at just the right time! I never taught but I've worked and sung with kids for years and it always seems there's a "cycle" they go through where there just seems to be a difficult group or groups for a few years and then !bingo! the next groups or groups are just awesome. I like your teaching methods btw - I had some teachers in high school that followed the teaching text - we sat in the back of the class and played euchre!! Keep up the good work hun - you are a role model in so many ways - to so many people!

Veronica, you mirror some of my daily frustrations, too. This is my 29th year of teaching (I can hardly believe that) and the students do seem to be more dependent and unable to show evidence of higher level thinking. But, as you, my test scores are always higher than the state and district average. I do not teach to the test; everything I do gets them ready. That includes literature circles and tons of every imaginable kind of writing. My mantra is "explain your thinking and use supporting evidence." My new sixth graders are struggling more than usual. Thank God I have them for 2 years, because you can do a lot more with them when you loop. They are a nice group of kids, so I deal with it. I think that as a whole, many parents just baby their kids and do not give them any responsibility. Then when they are held accountable for doing some hard work on their own, the **** hits the fan. Then there are the parents who don't or can't care. That's another issue. I have to tell parents that they should take the TV out of the bedroom, turn off the IM, take away the cell phone. I work in a very diverse suburban district, with kids in 600,000 dollar homes and ones who just immigrated from Brazil or Portugal, or other S. American countries. My district has been anti- MCAS, but even now our superintendent, who is known across the country for being an expert on social and emotional learning is falling prey to the pressure because our math scores are not that great. Thankfully, next year is my last year (I'd like it to be this year, but I hate to leave the kids in the middle of a loop). I plan on getting a job where there is no homework and I have plenty of time to ride my bike. But first, I am going to take a vacation in September or October... preferably to Italy, on my bike.

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Originally Posted by Robyn Maislin

I am going to take a vacation in September or October... preferably to Italy, on my bike.

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Ooohhh Italy that sounds fabulous. :)
We want pictures if you go. :)

Thanks to all of you for doing good work with your students; we in higher ed appreciate it when they get to us :) !

Veronica, I don't have kids but I listen to those who do. This is what they say:

1. Kids have too much homework.
2. Homework can't be done by kids so parents are doing quite a bit of it.
3. Maybe they, the parents and school system, are not teaching their kids how to handle failure. The parents ensure everything is perfect on their homework and other stuff. Schools are not allowed to have failures, i.e., everyone is a winner.
4. Parents don't spend much or enough time with their kids.
5. Kids have digital cable, big screen TVs, and high speed internet in their rooms.
6. Kids get "stuff" or toys and gizmos year round now.
7. Kids don't play enough outdoors.
8. Kids have Play Station and other video games.
9. Too many extracurricular school activities.
10. Discipline is hard to do because kids use the threat of the Child Protection Agency against parents.
11. Parents don't want schools disciplining their kids.
12. Kids watch too many movies and cable programming.
13. Kids are bored much too often.

If people have too much done for them, including entertainment, they do not have to think much. Some of these may be contributors to younger generations inability to "think outside the box." These are very middle income parents.

Some of what I have seen makes me a firm believer in returning to the basics of the Three R's. Some kids are being taught Boolean algebra who haven't mastered arithmetic. I wonder about the "logic" of that.

I didn't quite follow, this is what people that you know who have kids say? Sheesh. You'll be happy to know that not everyone thinks like that. Here are notes from our house and community. Most of the families I know run along similar lines. There are a lot of folks doing good jobs with thier kids, too. and a lot of great kids.

1. my kids get homework done at school, we have never had too much. They'd like more.
2. The only homework we've ever run into that the kids couldn't do was pre-calc and they went in early for help, we've never done it for them.
3. Everyone is a winner attitude disgusts us and our kids. It does a disservice to those who actually DO work hard.
4. We spend a lot of time together as a family.
5.No TV in rooms, but the geek child did build three computers for himself and his brother, and networked the house.
6. I've been anti stuff from day one. Don'tget me going on disneyfication and happy meal toys.... :eek: My 16 year old STILL plays with boxes...
7.a family of bikers, hikers, skiers and one kid runs for the XC team.
8. evil mother made them save their own $$ for that, would not buy it.
9.Lots of down time at our house. We do not beleive in overscheduling.
10. You have got to be kidding me. What were the parents going to do, beat their kids with a tire iron?
11. We disclipline our kids just fine, thank you very much. It's too bad more parents don't.
12. they learn from their parents who ought to know where the off switch is. We do.
13. Boredom is the mother of creativity.

FWIW, mine are 19 - college freshman engineering student, Eagle Scout, Top national student ski patroller, and 16, HS sophomore, ski patroller, XC runner, both are AP/honors students.
We've had great teachers and a pretty good run throught our public school system here in district 81, Spokane.

gotta run,

Irulan

http://www.specialtyoutdoors.com/misc/award3.jpg

Hey there... my two cents...

I teach at tertiary level, so not with kids... but I still get seemingly dumb questions... however, I always stress to my students that the only silly question is the one they don't ask, and they can ask me during or after the class...

But I do definately know the frustration of someone asking something you have already explained... so a strategy I use is to ask the class if someone else would care to explain this to the student who is still inclear.

The response tells me one of two things:whether the rest of the class has understood the concept/idea... or whether everyone is still as clear as mud and I need to try a different approach.

By giving the class the opportunity to "be the teacher" I am also allowing leadership skills and support of self-esteem to emerge, as well as encouraging co-construction of knowledge and peer-tutoring... co-construction and deconstruction of knowledge are skills we (the teaching team I work with)actively encourage in our students.

Well done on persevering, and congrats on the results! Such a good feeling to know that you have facilitated positive change in people's lives.

Students read an article about teasing.

Assignment - write what this makes you think of.
Student question - Can we write about getting teased?

My response - Is that what you thought about as we read the article?

Okay so that's one question. Imagine this all day from 30 kids. it's like they just need confirmation that they're on the right track - for everything.

Irulan, I love the way you value self-esteem and family...

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Originally Posted by Irulan

Everyone is a winner attitude disgusts us and our kids. It does a disservice to those who actually DO work hard.

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Absolutely agree... what is the point of a competition if no-one wins... and what do kids want? To know who is "the best"... absolutely congratulate and acknowledge the efforts others made, but ultimately most countries/cultures in our world operate on a "winner" mentality. And that is what inspires us and motivates us.

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Originally Posted by Irulan

We spend a lot of time together as a family.

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This is vital, how do children learn to be part of a family if the family just "being" together is not valued?

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Originally Posted by Irulan

No TV in rooms, but the geek child did build three computers for himself and his brother, and networked the house.

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Shock, horror... we have only one TV in the house and seven of us live here... this, despite the increasing "Americanisation" of our families because we do tend to buy alot of TV from the US and lots of those TV families have TVs and computers and playstations/x-box in their rooms. Maybe in my kid's friends rooms... not in this house.

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Originally Posted by Irulan

Lots of down time at our house. We do not beleive in overscheduling.

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I see this so much, having worked in pre-school, and now a teacher of teachers, I have seen too much of this. Children who arrive at preschool with a hash brown and bagel from MaccyDees in hand because the house has to get kids to school, kids to preschool, and parents to work... Children who spend 7-8 hours at child care then have to do baby gym, preschool music or any number of extra curricular activities at the end of the day... Children who have more extra-curricular activities at weekends, and have babysitters or nannies because the parents want "time to themselves"...
I applaud you Irulan for taking and relishing the challenge of being a parent, and knowing that you do not have to fill every second of your childrens lives with "stuff" and for valuing just being together, reading books, talking...

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Originally Posted by Irulan

We disclipline our kids just fine, thank you very much. It's too bad more parents don't.

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What we have seen from kids that aren't disciplined (and I don't mean using tyre irons!) is kids who are rude, disrespectful and arrogant when we go on school trips or camps... kids who have never learned to listen... or should that be, kids who have been taught to ignore...
Example...
Mum, can I?
No you can't...
But mum, can I...
Mum says firmly "No"
But Mum...
No!
Mum, please...
Look... (Mum goes into loooong explaination about why not)
But mum....
Ah....
Mum, please can I?
Umm...
Please please please
Oh, ok, just this once...

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Originally Posted by Irulan

Boredom is the mother of creativity.

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LOL, Irulan... my kids know that "I'm bored"... or "There's nothing to do..." will get a quick response with a list of things to "unbore" them... dishes, tidy room, clear deck, windows... they hardly ever bother with saying that to me, they know I will find them something to do that they may not want...

I have 5 children, aged 10-17... 4 boys and a girl, and they are great kids and I love spending time with them...

Love the way this thread is going. I know I responded as a teacher, but as a parent, i pretty much agree with what irulan said.. my kids were allowed to do one extra curricular activity plus go to religious school (twice a week, then three times a week before their Bar Mitzvah). They tried baseball, soccer, art lessons, archery, skiing, running, etc. My older son started taking music lessons in 5th grade and kept at it until he graduated. He actually took lessons for 2 instruments. But, what they remember is that they played in the woods. The built forts. They jumped off the back deck into the snow... Thye went to an Audubon camp for 4 years where they slept in a tent for 6 weeks and did water sports and environmental activities. There was no TV in the bedroom, but they did use the family computer a lot. No Disney here. I think it's the evil empire! In fact, they only went to amusement parks on school trips. When they got to high school, they did whatever activities they wanted, as long as they could get there. My older son was in the band, edited the creative writing magazine, and was a class officer. The younger one was in a community service club and a religious fraternity, but spent most of high school racing his bike. Oh yes, they complained that we never went to theme parks or took them out of school for vacations, but they survived and are decent adults....

I guess what I am trying to say is that even tho I know that teaching can be really tough, I get annoyed *in general* because as a whole one doesn't hear about the good kids and the decent families, and there are a lot of them out there - the self starters, motivated, centered ones. No one talks about them. It's not a factor of what class you are in, there are good decent people who arew raising great kids across the economic and social landscape.

In our whole run thourgh the public school system ( here, my community) as a whole most of the kids I know are pretty bright, focused, and doing well. As we are in the midst of teen stuff, the kids I know are involved in musics, sports, arts, community service and are well balanced. Many of them are earning scholarships to go on to college. They don't do drugs, go to sex parties, freak dance, hang out at the mall. But you never hear about these kids. You hear about the ones who get the school dance shut down fro freak dancing ( lastest local scandal) And again, this transends socio-economic borders. There are good kids and families everywhere, they just get ignored because they are doing OK.

LOL, I've certainly met my share of decent kids whose only problem IS the parents, this almost gets worse IMO the more $ the parents have because then they think they have the privelidge of telling teachers how to do thier job. God Bless, Mrs. Mai, telling the parents to BUTT OUT and let the kids do their own work. I burned out on school volunteering when the oldest hit 7th.

Even my kid multi tasks while doing homework, combining IM with pre-calc and maybe something else at the same time. ( gaming? Google?) It drives me nuts, but that is the culture, and who am I to complain if he can do all that and maintain a 3.9?



just my 2¢ worth of rant, as usual

Irulan

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Originally Posted by Robyn Maislin

No Disney here. I think it's the evil empire!

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oh oh oh, a whole new thread, why my kids are great, why their teachers are great, and why Disney is the evil Empire!! I'm with you all the way...
:D :D :D :D :D

Irulan, those are things I have heard from parents. BTW, most of those parents and kids are considered good and successful. Some are comments parents have said about their own child(ren)/situation or another's child(ren)/situation because it impacts their children.

Iulan, counselors have said there are a lot of good kids doing some pretty amazing things. You and your husband have raised kids in that category, which is wonderful. That is an accomplishment because parenting is not for the weak.

There are a lot of families that are not quite as functional as yours. Some counselors I've talked with say the ones that need the attention, because of their dysfunction, get it. The ones who don't need the attention, don't get it. The good kids don't cause any trouble to gain attention; they go about their business. The disruptive ones can't be allowed to be disruptive.

One counselor said the good kids he deals with don't really want or need attention. Those kids want the attention to go where it is needed most.

Having been a "bad" kid turned "good," I can say good kids do get attention, and better treatment than the bad ones. Good kids get a lot of positive attention whereas bad kids often don't. I got a lot of negative attention, was ignored, and was treated differently, as a bad kid. Bad kids usually get attention only when they are bad and need discipline.

If an English teacher had not possessed the courage to flunk me one 6 weeks and my sister had not been graduating with honors and going off to college that same year, I may not have turned around. After I turned around, the positive attention I got was wonderful! Loved it! I loved the respect I got, too.

I haven't thought much about it but there is a difference in treatment of good and bad kids.

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Originally Posted by Veronica

it's like they just need confirmation that they're on the right track - for everything.

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Geez, I know adults like that. Adults older than me. OTOH, I get slammed because I am too decisive, too matter-of-fact, too dogmatic. You just gotta' laugh.

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Originally Posted by pkq

Having been a "bad" kid turned "good," I can say good kids do get attention, and better treatment than the bad ones. Good kids get a lot of positive attention whereas bad kids often don't. I got a lot of negative attention, was ignored, and was treated differently, as a bad kid. Bad kids usually get attention only when they are bad and need discipline.

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A lot of irritating behaviour is about attention. Everyone needs attention and if kids continually aren't getting enough they'll do whatever it takes to get some - acting out is a very effective way of getting an immediate response. It's such an easy trap to fall into as a teacher too, yet making a real effort to "catch" these kids doing the right things and giving them the praise they deserve for it can have a huge impact.