Pinchy Bits

Owie. Did my first ever time trial, yesterday (and, OMG...it is so sad to ride 17.4 miles in a race at a slower pace than easy rides of 2-3x the distance 6 months ago. I really need to get a CX bike at some point so that I can ride outdoors year-round. The nowhere bike doesn't cut it). I spent most of the ride with my girly bits getting pinched. I think part of the problem is the heavy wind-blocker tights over my regular cycling shorts (too many layers of fabric trying to occupy minimal space) though I occasionally had this issue last Summer with just shorts.

I really like my Specialized Jett saddle, but wonder if the cut-out could be a contributing factor. I will have to pay more attention to things once I can ride without the heavy tights (Hello, Spring...where are you?! :confused: ). Perhaps something like that Bontrager saddle with the dip/dent would work better for me. Are they very T-shaped? I can't do pear-shaped saddles...at all.

boy, be careful with Bontragers. Of all the brands - i have heard more complaints about them than any others. I have a cutout in my Brooks Imperial and it's great.

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

boy, be careful with Bontragers. Of all the brands - i have heard more complaints about them than any others. I have a cutout in my Brooks Imperial and it's great.

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Ha, yeah...seems like there is no middle-ground with them, from what I have been reading.

Aero position is tough because you can't help rotating your pelvis forward. But the other part of that is that in aero position, you may be okay with a more wedge-shaped saddle than what you can tolerate sitting a little bit more upright, with your weight on your sitbones. Have you thought about an Adamo?

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Aero position is tough because you can't help rotating your pelvis forward. But the other part of that is that in aero position, you may be okay with a more wedge-shaped saddle than what you can tolerate sitting a little bit more upright, with your weight on your sitbones. Have you thought about an Adamo?

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I wondered if the issue was more that of being less upright. That makes sense. I'm sure the overabundance of fabric "down there" is not helping matters, either.

I don't know that I want to buy a saddle just for the occasional race...at least not this year (I'm only planning on 3 sprint duathlons...otherwise the rest of my year will mostly be centuries and other long rides). I'll probably be ready to replace my saddle by the end of this riding season, so that may be the time to reassess. I'd love to find something that would work equally well on the hoods and in the drops, but I'm guessing there is no such thing, huh.

The over abundance of fabric is always an issue for me. I actually gave up trying to find chamois that didn't rub me the wrong way. I now only use tri shorts and haven't had a problem since.

mary

I have a Bontrager inForm that I just love. It's perfect for me... I can NOT do cutouts. I would say that the Bontrager is more t-shaped than pear, but I don't have a vast experienced with saddle shapes.

With the extra layers, I feel less than comfortable everywhere (mostly in the knees), but not to the point where things are getting pinched. I dk, maybe it is the saddle?

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

boy, be careful with Bontragers. Of all the brands - i have heard more complaints about them than any others. I have a cutout in my Brooks Imperial and it's great.

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I'm actually riding happy on a Bontrager, but not the one my Trek came with. I'm on the Bontrager Inform Affinity RL WSD, 144mm. It supports my sit bones in just the right places and I;m not feeling any pressure at all up front.

For some reason the Terry saddles that worked so well for me on my Specialized were torture on the Madone.

It's interesting that different bikes sometimes require different saddles. I'm even wondering if tipping the nose down on my Jett might make a difference.

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

It's interesting that different bikes sometimes require different saddles. I'm even wondering if tipping the nose down on my Jett might make a difference.

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It's definitely worth a try before you start trying new saddles. Just don't tip it so far that you start sliding forward.

sometimes one particular pair of shorts will suddenly develop a problem even though they are the same brand size etc that you have been wearing, and perhaps even a pair that you have worn before. I put a big black permanent marker x on any pair I have a problem with, either on the tag at the back if it is still there or on the upper back edge of the chamois, each time I experience an uncomfortable ride. Two black x s means the shorts are for the charity bag. I don't change my riding position or saddle position much because I rde distances and training only, no racing or special events, so if anything is wrong, it is most likely the saddle.

Just a thought.

marni

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Originally Posted by marni

sometimes one particular pair of shorts will suddenly develop a problem even though they are the same brand size etc that you have been wearing, and perhaps even a pair that you have worn before. I put a big black permanent marker x on any pair I have a problem with, either on the tag at the back if it is still there or on the upper back edge of the chamois, each time I experience an uncomfortable ride. Two black x s means the shorts are for the charity bag. I don't change my riding position or saddle position much because I rde distances and training only, no racing or special events, so if anything is wrong, it is most likely the saddle.

Just a thought.

marni

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I'm going to try this. I suspect I have a bad pair.

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Originally Posted by redrhodie

I'm going to try this. I suspect I have a bad pair.

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I'm going to pay attention to mine, too...though I have only had pinchy issues outdoors, which leads me to think my culprit is riding more in the drops (I don't do this indoors much at all) and/or the bulky tights over my shots. I'll have a better idea which one is responsible once it gets warm enough to forgo the wind-blocker tights (hope that happens soon...this <freezing stuff is getting REALLY old).

I also have a pair of PI shorts with the PRO chamois on order ("PRO In-R-Cool"...if I like them I would love to buy more from TE *hint hint*). I've been pretty happy with the Elite chamois'd shorts, but they are a hair bulky up-front. PI finally has made a short with their high-end chamois that has a flatter front panel (like the panel on the front of their Symphony Cut shorts). I don't want to mess with bib shorts, if I can avoid it, but don't like the shorts that bind in front.

I have a women's Jett that I love, but I can't TT on it. Nearly all my saddles are tipped just a bit nose-down.

Just put a Bontrager InForm on my TT bike to replace an Adamo which relieved the pressure in the *girlie* areas only to give me CHRONIC saddle sores everywhere else because of the pressure distribution. Couldn't do more than one ride every 2 weeks on it, it had to go -though I tried it for 6+ months.

So far the Bontrager is pretty good, did 1 TT on it with a little discomfort, which seems to be relieved by using chamois lube -something to think about, pinching could be aggravated by friction. I've only ever really needed lube down there for aggressive position rides.

Have retired a Terry Ti saddle because I never could really get comfortable on it, to be replaced by a Selle San Marco Glamor ISP(so far so good!). With the Terry I had pinching with the cutout - girlie bits would squish down in there (aggravated by thick shorts/multiple layers, too) and eventually go numb. I don't have that problem with the Jett, probably because it's a harder saddle.

I've got to say this; I always had problems with this when I was time trialing. I don't care what saddle I used, I'm a tilted way far forward in the time trial position and I just dealt with a sore crotch after I time trialed; but was never a real time trialist. I only did them occasionally. Road race, cycle crossed, and mountain biked more. These types of racing never caused me as much problem.

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Originally Posted by pinkychique

So far the Bontrager is pretty good, did 1 TT on it with a little discomfort, which seems to be relieved by using chamois lube -something to think about, pinching could be aggravated by friction. I've only ever really needed lube down there for aggressive position rides.

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I'm a lube girl, but wished I'd used Brave Soldier up front, in addition to my usual That Butt Stuff everywhere. I use the Brave Soldier for particularly long rides...TBS on the chamois, BS on the trouble spots. But the BS is VERY cooling and the last thing I wanted to use was a cooling product on a 31º day! :eek:

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Originally Posted by spokewench

I've got to say this; I always had problems with this when I was time trialing. I don't care what saddle I used, I'm a tilted way far forward in the time trial position and I just dealt with a sore crotch after I time trialed; but was never a real time trialist. I only did them occasionally. Road race, cycle crossed, and mountain biked more. These types of racing never caused me as much problem.

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I have a feeling this will be the ultimate solution--just deal with some temporary ouchies after TTs/races. I love my Jett for most of my mileage.

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

boy, be careful with Bontragers. Of all the brands - i have heard more complaints about them than any others. I have a cutout in my Brooks Imperial and it's great.

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Bontrager used to make pretty awful saddles but their new Inform technology is superb for many of us. Don't rule out Bontrager based on outdated information.

Yesterday I did just an easy 12 miles with a pair of tri shorts under my tights. I still had some issues, but I think they were due more irritation from riding on already irritated parts. I think doing these shorter, in-the-drops races will definitely have me in my tri shorts in the future.

Only new issue I really noticed...my crotch got cold! It was still in the 30s yesterday and I swear ALL the cold air went up the cut-out in my saddle! :eek:

I have always had a bit of a soreness problem in the soft-tissue area on all but my MTB due to the agresssive position and my own anatomy. I was convinced that a TT bike would be pure torture. It was on the stock saddle and just about every saddle I tried - until I got to the Bontrager Inform RL WSD. It was instantly comfy on the TT bike during my fitting but what really surprized me was how comfy it also was when sitting up. I immediately tried it on my road bike and WOW, it works there too!

When I'm sitting up, it's T-shapped enough, narrow and firm enough to work perfectly for my sit bones. When I rotate my pelvis into aero position on my TT bike, the indent and the narrow nose work together to support me comfortably on my perenium without crushing the soft tissue or pinching like my Terry Ti Fly did (cutout). I am frankly stunned that the same saddle works for both positions and on all three of my road riding bikes!

Since we are so similiar in so many other dimensions, you need to try this saddle! It may not work for you, but it's worth a shot, right? In fact, if you order directly from Bontrager, last year's model is on sale for $69.99.

http://store.trekbikes.com/jump.jsp?...&bShopOnline=1

Hmmm...my only query is what size. I think I recall that when I did a quick-and-dirty sit-bone measurement that I came up with 125-130mm. My Jett is a 143 and feels about perfect.

So what size would that equate to for the Bontrager? 140...150...? What is the firmness of the Inform RL like compared to the Jett? I definitely don't want to go softer.

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

Hmmm...my only query is what size. I think I recall that when I did a quick-and-dirty sit-bone measurement that I came up with 125-130mm. My Jett is a 143 and feels about perfect.

So what size would that equate to for the Bontrager? 140...150...? What is the firmness of the Inform RL like compared to the Jett? I definitely don't want to go softer.

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FWIW, Bontrager has a 30-day comfort guarantee, so there's little downside to giving one a try. If there's an LBS near you that carries Trek/Bontrager, they could measure you on the gel thingy.

I test rode a Specialized saddle in a 143 and it worked great, so I would guess you'd need the 140 in the Bontrager as well. I don't know how much padding a Jett has, but the InForm RL doesn't have much. The photo is deceiving as it looks all puffy in the back, but it's not at all. It's more padding than a Brooks, but less than a Terry Butterfly. Does that help?

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Originally Posted by GLC1968

I test rode a Specialized saddle in a 143 and it worked great, so I would guess you'd need the 140 in the Bontrager as well. I don't know how much padding a Jett has, but the InForm RL doesn't have much. The photo is deceiving as it looks all puffy in the back, but it's not at all. It's more padding than a Brooks, but less than a Terry Butterfly. Does that help?

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Very much! That's about how I would describe my Jett, too.

Tomorrow DH and I are going to go ride for 2 hours, or so...gonna see if tilting the nose of my Jett down a hair helps. If not, I'll be ordering an InForm RL to see how it compares. In theory it looks like it would be a better solution for riding in the drops.

My only concern is that it looks a hair more "pear-shaped" than the t-shape footprint of my Jett. I had a SI Lady Gel Flow (same as the Butterfly) at one point and that caused all sorts of chafing where my butt meets my inner thigh. Part of that could have been that it was just too wide, too.

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

Hmmm...my only query is what size. I think I recall that when I did a quick-and-dirty sit-bone measurement that I came up with 125-130mm. My Jett is a 143 and feels about perfect.

So what size would that equate to for the Bontrager? 140...150...? What is the firmness of the Inform RL like compared to the Jett? I definitely don't want to go softer.

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Their size would be the 144

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Originally Posted by HillSlugger

Their size would be the 144

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Not in that saddle...it comes in 140, 150, 160.

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

Very much! That's about how I would describe my Jett, too.

Tomorrow DH and I are going to go ride for 2 hours, or so...gonna see if tilting the nose of my Jett down a hair helps. If not, I'll be ordering an InForm RL to see how it compares. In theory it looks like it would be a better solution for riding in the drops.

My only concern is that it looks a hair more "pear-shaped" than the t-shape footprint of my Jett. I had a SI Lady Gel Flow (same as the Butterfly) at one point and that caused all sorts of chafing where my butt meets my inner thigh. Part of that could have been that it was just too wide, too.

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I had the same problem with the Butterfly. That's why I switched to the Fly (narrower). It still gave me some issues up front, but I learned to deal with it with enough lube. Over time, the padding got to be too much for me which is why I was so happy to find the inForm.

I really hope it works as well for you! It's SO perfect for me that I've actually ridden my coached cycling class (I take my saddle to my class!) without a chamois at all. Even though class is only an hour, there is no way in a trillion-billion years I could have done that on the Fly.

Interesting...it's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks pretty narrow in the rear. I wonder if that cut-out would be better or worse than the Jett. It looks like it goes further forward, but it also looks narrower...which makes me sorta cringe, just thinking about it. :eek:

Ok, found a site that said it's 135...which would probably be a hair narrow when I'm on the hoods. Hmmm...something to add to the list of possibilities, though.

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Originally Posted by Muirenn

Just trying to make it more difficult :rolleyes: :p

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Ha, I did that to myself when I got a new bike! :p

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Originally Posted by Muirenn

But it's such a pretty bike!

Orange Rules!

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Yep! :D

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Originally Posted by zoom-zoom

It's interesting that different bikes sometimes require different saddles. I'm even wondering if tipping the nose down on my Jett might make a difference.

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Well, we answered that question. Hubby tipped the nose down a little and then I felt like I was sliding forward the entire ride (which my parts did not appreciate, of course). Though maybe my saddle could be pushed forward just a hair. We've never done the plumb-line positioning, or anything, and I did recently go from an 80mm stem to a 100mm (which definitely makes going into the drops comfier, but it's riding in said drops that's making my hoo-ha all sorts of annoyed...can't win, heh).

Man, I wish we'd get warm enough for me to do some rides without the tights layer over my shorts. Then I could at least eliminate a factor. This neverending Winter is really starting to tick me off! :mad: I'd love to get this figured out before my 2 upcoming duathlons when I will want to be in the drops a lot.