Looking for a truthful answer

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10-01-2005, 11:57 AM
brok

Looking for a truthful answer

I have a question for those "petite" women who ride a rode bike with 650 wheels. I have been given some many different opinions by the lbs people - mostly men, that I am unsure what to believe and what not to believe. My questions are 1)assuming you have ridden a 700 wheeled bike - is the ride on the 650's rougher? and 2) I understand the 650s are easier to get up to speed but is it also more difficult to maintain that speed? I ride with a group of "taller" cyclist who all ride 700 wheels and I don't want to struggle to keep up. I have a chane to by a Trek madone that has 650 wheels but thought I would seek out some expert advice/opinions from you ladies. Thanks for the input.
10-01-2005, 02:25 PM
cindysue

sorry - I'm - not petite but thought I'd give you that "honest" answer you were looking for anyway........

I'm 5'10 and was recently fitted on a WSD w/ 650 wheels. Before that I had 700 wheels - and to be honest I don't think switching has made any difference. Here are my thoughts on the things you mention:

1) the ride actually seems smoother - but this is probably due to the fact that I now have a carbon seat stay and fork.

2) speed? hmmm, I haven't noticed any problem with maintaining higher speeds - but then again - I don't race - so being speedy isn't something I strive for. I like staying in the 15-20 mph range on the flats and haven't had any problems doing so.

Best of luck!
10-01-2005, 02:44 PM
brok

Thanks ...

and I'm not a racer either. I just don't want to be dropped on any rides because of the 650s and it sounds like you don't have any problems. I like to be between that 16-20 mph range. I appreciate your input.
10-01-2005, 02:48 PM
brok

cindysue

also, just out of curiousity - what size wsd do you ride at 5'10??
10-01-2005, 02:50 PM
bluerider

Hi brok,

I am by no means an "expert" but I am 5'2 and ride a 47cm Trek 1500 WSD. Ah the Madone....*wiping up drool*...

I think if your bike is below 50cm you shouldn't be too concerned because it should handle just like a 700C wheel on a bigger bike. How tall are you? If you are petite like me, riding on a 650C would be more suitable.

I also don't think some bikes in smaller sizes can even accomodate the bigger wheels. Also, because it's a bigger wheel I would imagine the 750C moves over the road better but the 650C are more aero. I know lots of triathletes who are not petite that ride on 650C but they do so on a tri bike and not a road bike.
10-01-2005, 03:46 PM
brok

bluerider

I'm also 5'2. I currently ride a Specialized Dolce Elite 48cm with 700s. I like this bike but am also drooling for the madone. I would also need the 47cm - I just wasn't sure about the 650s.
10-01-2005, 04:43 PM
bluerider

Hey brok,

Have you ridden the 650Cs? If you feel good on the 700Cs then you should stick with it. Although the Madone sounds mighty tempting... ;)

Good luck and let us know what you end up deciding.
10-01-2005, 04:49 PM
bluerider

Brok...

Is this the one???? I...MUST...HAVE...

http://dev3.trekbikes.com/images/bik...52wsd_halo.jpg
10-01-2005, 05:47 PM
annie

I am 5'1. I've been riding a Trek Project One WSD, 50 cm. frame for 3 years. It has 650 wheels or I wouldn't be able to ride that size frame, which fits me in every other way. I LOVE the 650 wheels, 'cause I have never have to worry about toe overlap. Ever. And they are not a problem in any way. They accelerate quickly. I have not noticed any difference as far as keeping up speed. Just by virtue of being smaller, they are lighter weight.

I make sure to always carry my own tubes and a patch kit, as it is less likely that anyone else will have a tube that size to loan. There aren't as many tires out there in that size. You have to really look around to find what you like, but it is certainly possible. For me, the advantages outweigh any little inconveniences.

annie
10-02-2005, 04:14 AM
DirtDiva

I'm not a roadie, so I can't give you an informed opinion here, but surely the ease of getting up to speed and maintaining that speed has more to do with the size of your cogs/chainrings than the size of your wheels..?
10-02-2005, 04:59 AM
DeniseGoldberg

tlkiwi is right. Your gearing is a function of the size of the wheels, the chainrings, and the rear cluster. It is possible to have the same gearing on a bike with 650c wheels as with 700c wheels.

As an example, I have 3 bikes - a diamond-framed touring bike with 700c wheels, a Bike Friday Air Glide set up as a touring bike with 406 (20") wheels, and a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket set up as a road bike with 451 (20") wheels. The two touring bikes have identical gearing, despite the different wheel sizes. The other difference between the two bikes is the size of the chain rings. I have much larger rings on the little-wheeled bike. And my little-wheeled road bike (deliberately) has higher gearing than both of the touring bikes.

That said, I still can't answer your question about 650 vs. 700 because I have no idea how the manufacturer configured the gearing. It is very possible that the gearing is the same - but that would depend on either the chainrings or the cluster being a different size since the wheels are already different.
10-02-2005, 05:42 AM
brok

bluerider - no, I'm looking at the '05 http://www2.trekbikes.com/Bikes/Road..._WSD/index.php but the '06 would be work too :D
10-02-2005, 10:52 AM
bluerider

Ooooh la la...me like, me like... :D
10-02-2005, 02:17 PM
Crankin

I am no technical expert, but I ride a Trek 5200 47 cm WSD with 650 wheels (the "old" version of the Madone). I love my bike. I am 5 foot 1. This summer I went on a bike trip with Trek travel and rode a Madone 47 cm with 700 wheels. I don't know how they fit the bigger wheels on such a small bike, but I hated it. The whole bike felt different; I felt like I was up on a higher bike and generally it took me a while to get used to it. I noticed no difference in my speed, but a lot in the handling. I don't race, but if i were you, I would buy the bike that fits. Most people will tell you not to get the 650 wheels, but they don't know what it's like to be short!
10-02-2005, 03:52 PM
brok

Robyn, how was there a 47cm with 700 wheels? Was it a test bike for the possibility of putting 700s on the small frames in the future?
10-02-2005, 05:17 PM
cindysue

Quote:

Originally Posted by brok

also, just out of curiousity - what size wsd do you ride at 5'10??

56 - Orbea Dama Race :)
10-02-2005, 05:20 PM
cindysue

Quote:

Originally Posted by annie

I make sure to always carry my own tubes and a patch kit, as it is less likely that anyone else will have a tube that size to loan. annie

Great point Annie! 650 is a rare breed - please be prepared for anything!
10-10-2005, 08:03 PM
pkq

The linear velocity of the wheel is the product of the wheel radius and the angular velocity (rpm's) of the wheel.

speed = wheel radius X revolutions per minute

So far cranks turning the same rpm with the same gearing, the 700c wheel will be traveling at a higher speed than the 650c wheel.

This can be overcome with gearing, which is what bikefriday does. But the root for needing to overcome this begins with the wheel size.
10-10-2005, 08:16 PM
carback

I'm 4'11" and ride a 47cm Trek WSD 2200 with 650cc wheels. I LOVE the bike - it handles beautifully and is incredible responsive.
I have never noticed a problem with speed / keeping up; in fact, I feel more comfortable & confident on the bike than I ever did on the 43cm with 700 cc bike I used to ride (an engineering marvel if there ever was one).
10-11-2005, 06:22 AM
emily_in_nc

Just chiming in!

I ride a 46cm Aegis Swift with 650c wheels and I have no trouble keeping up with other gals in our club (except for the A-paced riders; I'm not in their league, but that's not about the bike but the engine). I find that the 650 wheels accelerate fast, and the other nice thing about them is that they are lighter than 700s! Like Annie notes, I do have to carry my own tube and patch kit, but I've been lucky enough never to have a flat on this bike so haven't had to use it. I can't imagine riding a bike with 700c wheels at my size (5'2"), but I've never tried it so can't really compare - other than a Terry with a 700c in back, 24" in front, which was more of a pain b/c of the two different tire sizes, and it was a heavier bike, so I was slower on it.

I guess I just don't see what the big deal about 650c wheels is; this topic comes up again and again here, and I've heard so many gals, even shorties like me, say they just didn't want to ride 650c-wheeled bikes. I don't give a flying fig about what anyone else thinks (but I get tons of compliments on my pretty Aegis, even from the guys); I want to ride a bike that fits me and is not too much bike for me to handle - I even have a 20"-wheeled Bike Friday for touring and utility rides and love it!

Actually, I almost forgot: I have had a 700c-wheeled bike in the past; it was a hybrid and felt HUGE and ungainly to me, even though the reach to the handlebars was okay. I would never go back to a 700c-wheeled bike.

The way I look at it, 650c-wheeled bikes must be pretty fast because so many triatheletes use them! :cool:

Emily
10-11-2005, 07:17 AM
Blueberry

And another opinion...

Disclaimer - I do ride a 700c bike. HOWEVER, that's because I found a pre-owned one I fell in love with at the right price, I'm a smidge taller (5'4") and I can deal with toe overlap.

That said, I'm still looking lustfully at bike fridays... The Bike Friday folks actually have an interesting answer to the small wheels = slower idea. Take a look at http://www.bikefriday.com/LexiconFull.cfm?ID=53
Basically, their website says up to 16 mph, no difference. 16-33 mph - little difference. Above 33 - there's a difference.

I know that unless riding down a hill, I'm usually in the 16 and under category (or at least relatively close to it), so I'm not at all worried about the performance.

I've ridden with Emily and she dances up hills on her little purple bike (which is BEAUTIFUL)! Believe me, she was going faster than I was on my 700c bike. Methinks it's the engine, not the bike;)
10-11-2005, 07:29 AM
emily_in_nc

Hi CA ~ Thanks for your compliment about my hill-climbing! I'm definitely not a great climber, never claim to be, but I definitely don't feel that my "little wheels" slow me down. In fact, since they're lighter than 700c wheels, they're probably easier for me to haul uphill with! :D Rotating weight is definitely the most important on a bike, and wheels/tires are rotating weight, and good 650s are lighter than the equivalent 700s; they're just made of less material!

Thanks also for posting the link from the BF site. Great info and will help dispell a lot of myths about small-wheeled bikes beings slow. Yes, my 20"-wheeled Bike Friday is slower than my 650c-wheeled Aegis, but that is because I have fatter tires on it (1.35" vs. 23c), and it's a heavier bike (steel vs. carbon-fiber). All other things being equal, I am sure it would be just as fast.

Now if only the weather would clear up here in NC so we could actually RIDE again, huh?! :(

Emily
10-11-2005, 07:36 AM
Musclicious505

I am five foot tall - no inches - and I ride a 700c bike. I have never ridden anything smaller so I cant compare. But I havent had any problems with fit or toe overlap. It is a wsd bike so I am sure that has a lot to do with it. Just my two cents...
10-11-2005, 08:00 AM
JmcG

I am 5'1" and I ride 2 Specialized road bikes (44cm) with 700cc wheels (2004 Dolce Elite and the new Ruby Expert) and I also ride a QR tri bike (46cm) which has 650cc wheels. I really prefer the 700cc wheels - mainly because it's a lot easier to find tires that I like available in stores, as well as tube availability. Also, rarely do the 650cc tires or tubes go on sale, whereas it seems you can usually find the 700cc tires and tubes on sale - at least in my experience. As far as handling, etc. - I don't see too much difference - possibly the 650cc makes for a little harsher of a ride? But I'm comparing 2 different types of bikes so it's kind of hard to tell since I've never ridden a 650cc road bike.

Also, I ride my road bike with a group of guys most of the time, and I'm more comfortable knowing that if I flat more times than I have tubes, that I'm covered by one of their spare 700cc tubes!

If the only thing that's stopping you from buying the bike is the wheel size - but you love the bike and it feels great, then I say go for it and buy it. Good luck in your decision!
10-11-2005, 11:02 AM
Blueberry

Quote:

Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

Now if only the weather would clear up here in NC so we could actually RIDE again, huh?! :(

Emily

So True! I'm in Wilmington part time for another few weeks finishing up work and selling the house, and things have definately been soggy here - 13+ inches of rain in less than a week :eek: I've managed to get in a couple of night rides (or dark 30 AM rides). I *finally* treated myself to a good headlight and what a difference! My DH has the same one and I kept thinking I had a car behind me - it's that bright! :D :D

Of course, I also had my first flat on Blueberry (my blue cannondale) this AM. :mad: Seems I ran over a piece of glass. Of course, I flatted just as I was rolling into my neighborhood - 1/10 of a mile from my house. Floor pump here I come (I have a road morph, but prefer my nice floor pump given the choice). Don't jinx yourself! ;) Plus with all of the water on the roads, the bikes now have a nice grime coating. :mad: Cleaning time!

I've been trying to get more comfortable with night riding as we're doing a "full moon" ride on the Virginia Creeper trail this weekend. Should be fun! :D :D
10-11-2005, 01:38 PM
Crankin

I truthfully do not know if it was a test or not. From what the guides said, i don't think it was. Two of the three guides were my height and rode the same bike. The only difference I noted in the frame was the slope of the top tube; it was slightly sloped instead of straight across. I crashed doing a tricky manuever crossing a highway and going up a curb cut that was to the left/then having to make a quick right because the bike just felt so different. As I said before, I don't see why people feel that they have to have 700 wheels. We just buy a bunch of tubes at the beginning of the season and stick one in my seat bag. I have been riding for 5 years and I have never had a flat (shhhh!) except for the ones I did myself in the basement for very stupid reasons. But the different tube size should not be the excuse to get a bike that doesn't really fit you. I have increased my speed from an average of about 12 five years ago to about 15, without a very strict training program. So I don't think that the smaller wheels compromise your speed. I can easily maintain 18-19 on the flats on my bike. There's just not a whole lot of flats around here!
So, from what I saw, this was the new configuration for the bike. Maybe you can check the Trek site.
10-11-2005, 03:12 PM
sarahkonamojo

Who makes them

I have a Terry so I'm not afraid of the odd tire size. Seems 650c tires are much easier to find than 24". It would be nice to only have to deal with one tire size... (5'2" 28" inseam and short reach)

I got the idea Trek was dumping the 650c tire. I road a 47cm Pilot and it had 700c wheels.

Other than custom, which is becoming more appealing all the time, who makes road bikes w/ 650 wheels? I'd like to demo one. Cannondale. Litespeed. Others? (Of course. no Cannondales or Litespeeds in my neighborhood.)

SKM
10-11-2005, 03:59 PM
emily_in_nc

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarahkonamojo

Other than custom, which is becoming more appealing all the time, who makes road bikes w/ 650 wheels? I'd like to demo one. Cannondale. Litespeed. Others? (Of course. no Cannondales or Litespeeds in my neighborhood.)
SKM

Hi SKM, I have an Aegis Swift with 650c wheels (carbon, made in Maine), but they are very hard to find. It's really considered a tri bike, but I don't have aerobars and use it as a club ride/road bike. I wanted to test ride one but could never find a shop in NC that carried them. I ended up finding a leftover 46cm frame/fork combo on Ebay for 2/3 off retail (but it was a 1999 frame I bought in late 2003), and I had my LBS build it up with Campy Chorus and a compact double crankset. A very sweet bike! I could never afford to buy one off the floor, but Ebay made my dream bike possible for me.

Their website sucks, but here you go:

Aegis Swift

Emily in NC
10-11-2005, 04:01 PM
emily_in_nc

Quote:

Originally Posted by CA_in_NC

I've been trying to get more comfortable with night riding as we're doing a "full moon" ride on the Virginia Creeper trail this weekend. Should be fun! :D :D

Hey ~ I admire your riding at all in this weather. I've been wimping. I have a severe motivation problem when it's dark gray, misty, damp, and chilly out. I don't have nearly the problem on a bright sunny but chilly day.

We might do the Creeper trail the last weekend of the month. Enjoy your ride!

Emily

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