Bike Fitting Problems Longish

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10-11-2010, 08:01 AM
hid558

Bike Fitting Problems Longish

Don't know if this has been discussed before, but how do I know if we have a long or short torso based on bike measurements. I have a Cannondale Synapse 4 with Sram rival size 44 cm. She is cute and everything but since I bought her I have trying to adjust her in many different ways and don't seem to get it right. It comes with a 70 mm stem I have changed it to 90 mm and 100 mm. I have changed to seat post to layback. I have upped the seat and lowered it. I have been fitted but really don't trust the fitting guys here and don't think there is anybody who could do a good fitting here. I live in Puerto Rico. These are my measurement:

inseam 69.85 cm = 27.5 inches
trunk 50
forearm 32
arm 60
thigh 54
lower leg 49
sternal notch 125
total body height 149 = 4' 11"

I don't seem to just feel right in the bike. I am now feeling pain in the shoulders. My wrist hurt if I bend to much my hands. I don't know if maybe the bike is to small for me I sometimes feels cramped and have to like move back on the seat. Maybe I need a unisex frame instead of WSD. Can somebody help me. I really like riding, and I have improved my riding skills. But I know I am really comfortable on the bike. Don't know if I should sell my bike and try getting another. I don't have any way of trying bikes out here. I just have to buy any brand based on measurements and geometry. Can any of you gals who know about bike measurements and how to look for a bike based on geometry help me. Please somebody help!
10-11-2010, 09:11 AM
emily_in_nc

Is there any way you could post a photo of yourself on your bike from the side, whether on a bike trainer or even next to a wall if you can't get an action shot, anything is better than nothing. That might help us help you!

Since you're quite petite, it doesn't sound like a 44 cm bike is too small for you, on the surface, but I know there are gals on here that ride larger bikes for their height than I do since everyone is proportioned differently. Just a data point for you: I am just a hair under 5'2" and take about a 46 cm in a road bike. I need WSD as I have long femurs and end up using a setback seatpost to get the proper knee over pedal-spindle position, so I can't deal with a long top tube at all.

Post a picture if you can, feet at 3 and 9 o'clock is best.
10-11-2010, 10:27 AM
GLC1968

Just as a comparison - I'm 5'4" and have a 28" inseam. I have a long torso and short legs. Since I'm 5" taller than you and we have almost the same inseam, I'm going to say that you have long legs and a shorter torso - or more typically female dimensions. I would think that in general a WSD would be right for you and a 44cm is probably pretty good.

That said, as you have found, there are tons of tweaks that can be made to a frame to get the fit right...so even if your base frame is correct, it is possible to be super uncomfortable if your fit wasn't well done.
10-11-2010, 02:19 PM
sundial

Quote:

Originally Posted by hid558

Maybe I need a unisex frame instead of WSD.

I was once told by a bike fitter that if a woman is evenly proportioned that a unisex bike would probably fit better. I once rode a women's specific bike and it was too small even though I was measured for the correct size. I have what would be considered a long torso for a woman but am equally proportioned if that makes sense.

Not all WSD will fit the same. Try a different brand and even some unisex bikes to see which one feels more comfortable to you. If you can't replicate the feel of the fit on your bike by trying a different stem length, seatpost, etc., you may want to consider a different bike altogether.
10-12-2010, 12:22 PM
hid558

How do I know if I have a long or short torso? Based on measurements what should I look at?
10-12-2010, 12:44 PM
Irulan

one way to tell is to be aware of how most clothes fit you. Is your inseam average, longer or shorter than average? You should know by how tops fit if you are long waisted or not. A tailor should be able to tell you also.
10-12-2010, 02:26 PM
sundial

Quote:

Originally Posted by hid558

How do I know if I have a long or short torso?

Look in the mirror. Do you look "leggy" or do you have a lowered waistline?

As a kid, I found out I had a long torso when I was measured for a leotard. I have to buy long torso swimsuits as well.
10-12-2010, 03:18 PM
Chicken Little

I'm with the photo request. One of you in the drops, and one on the bar, looking straight ahead. I'm thinking this is a seat thing, but it would be great to see you on it.
10-12-2010, 03:37 PM
hid558

2 Attachment(s)

ok pictures on the bike

Heres me on the bike!
10-12-2010, 04:32 PM
HillSlugger

Are your arms fully extended? You should have some bend at the elbow; maybe you need to go back to a shorter stem.
10-12-2010, 05:25 PM
emily_in_nc

Quote:

Originally Posted by hid558

Heres me on the bike!

Great, thanks for posting those (great looking bike, BTW!)

The first thing I noticed is that your saddle seems higher than your handlebars. Is that true? If so, that can definitely cause problems for a lot of women, wrist and shoulder pain and the like. Seems that most non-racing women prefer the saddle about even with the top of the bars. Of course I'm generalizing here.

Since you have to raise your saddle that high to get a good knee bend, perhaps the frame is indeed a little too small for you. Chances are you can't raise your handlebars up much without another stem change. Often if both the saddle and handlebars have to be raised quite a bit, it means that the frame is on the small side for you.

Just a few thoughts...I'm not an expert, just another petite gal who rides WSD bikes!
10-12-2010, 05:28 PM
emily_in_nc

Quote:

Originally Posted by MDHillSlug

Are your arms fully extended? You should have some bend at the elbow; maybe you need to go back to a shorter stem.

I agree -- it looks like you are really having to stretch to use the typical hands on hoods position. I'd try a stem that has a shorter reach out in front but is taller, or add some more spacers to bring the handlebars up a bit higher.
10-12-2010, 06:44 PM
Chicken Little

Yup, bring that stem up, and from looking, I think you can move your saddle very slightly forward. If I dropped a plumb line, I think that your knee is a little behind the axle on the pedal. (Anybody feel free to correct me here). I would try that for starters, then lower the seat slightly, then consider the stem changes, starting with an 80mm.

Keep in mind that any change feels better... for a while. This will take some fiddling to get right.

It's easier to make a small bike bigger, than a big bike smaller. You'll get this.
10-13-2010, 06:02 AM
Chicken Little

Staring at the pictures while drinking coffee this morning, I'm wondering if you would benefit from a shorter reach bar, such as the Poco Salsa, etc. Get those hoods a little closer to you, without a stem change. Can you tilt the bars up slightly without loosing your ability to brake in the hoods?

Wish you were across the street....
10-13-2010, 06:07 AM
Cataboo

What were you riding before? How you're pushing your seat back makes me think that this bike probably has a steeper seat tube angle than you're used to - a lot of small bikes and WSD shorten the reach by rotating the seat tube forward. For whatever reason, I hate it, and am really unhappy if i'm on something with a 74-75 degree seat angle. I tend to try to get bikes with a 73 or 73.5 and I still run a seatpost with a setback.

If your inseam is 27.5 inches, I think you probably didn't need a WSD.
10-13-2010, 06:50 AM
Irulan

Quote:

Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

I agree -- it looks like you are really having to stretch to use the typical hands on hoods position. I'd try a stem that has a shorter reach out in front but is taller, or add some more spacers to bring the handlebars up a bit higher.

Me three, I had a mountain bike with a cockpit like that and I had nothing but problems w/pain in wrists and shoulders.
10-13-2010, 07:04 AM
hid558

76 degree angle

My seatangle based on site brand is a 76 angle maybe that is the problem.
10-13-2010, 07:10 AM
hid558

I've tried looking for bikes with a 73 degree angle but dont seem to find any in my size, at least with my standover height. I was looking at the Cervelo r3 which has a 72.5 degree for a 48 cm, but don't know if a 51.5 top tube would be too streched out. I have a short torso but do have long arms.
10-13-2010, 08:27 AM
OakLeaf

If I were you, the first thing I'd try is just raising the bars.

You've got some room on your steerer tube. Put the top spacer below the stem instead of above it. The cap nut is what loads the headset bearings, so if you haven't worked with bearings before, ask your LBS or an experienced friend to do it (and show you how it feels, so you can do it yourself next time).

It's possible you might have to replace your cables and housings, but odds are you've got enough slack (and that's a potential issue any time you change the handlebar position).

Also, it looks like your handlebars are rotated down toward the front quite a bit. Try rotating them up a little (so the drops are parallel to the ground, at least, maybe even a little higher). You might be able to position the brifters higher on the bend, as well (which requires re-taping, but only above and immediately below the brifters; it's very easy if you don't unwind the tape all the way, and just put a rubber band around the tape to keep it from loosening below the brifters).

Last - how's your core strength? Your arms are very stretched out, but your back is kind of high. What happens when you bend your elbows?
10-13-2010, 08:49 AM
arielmoon

Good for you for posting pics!

My first thought was that the bike looks small and you look compressed. What I mean is that your upper body is quite upright and it causes the straight arms. If you wanted to assume a more aggressive, less wind resistant position, you could try a longer stem that would allow you to tilt your pelvis more toward the front of the saddle, thereby lowering your back, which then allows you to have bend in your elbows. This does require good core muscles though!

However, that being said, you may be more comfortable in more upright posture and the advise from the others is spot on.

Just my 2 cents. A longer stem did the trick for me. Trying to get lower and not having the room to do so, had me all messed up.
10-13-2010, 09:17 AM
Cataboo

Quote:

Originally Posted by hid558

I've tried looking for bikes with a 73 degree angle but dont seem to find any in my size, at least with my standover height. I was looking at the Cervelo r3 which has a 72.5 degree for a 48 cm, but don't know if a 51.5 top tube would be too streched out. I have a short torso but do have long arms.

Oh, I don't mean that you should give up on the bike or that you necessarily need a 73 degree one - I assume if you ride it, you'll get used to a 76 degree seat angle. I just thought it might be different from what you're used to... 76 degrees does seem to be awfully steep. What is the situation with the bike shop? Are you still in a 30 day period where you can return the bike and get another or are you pretty much stuck with this one?

to a certain extent, if you've just started riding, you probably need to work on your core strength a bit - the first year I was riding, I was constantly tweaking something on the bike to compensate for some pain - but as I got stronger, what used to give me pain was perfectly fine. So your back/abdomen muscles probably just need to adjust to the new positions.

Okay wrist pain - is your seat angled downwards? Are you sliding forward off the seat and using your hands to hold yourself back? Your seat should just be ever so slightly angled down in the front - enough to not stick up into your soft tissue, but not enough to make you slide forward and have to support yourself on your wrists.

Your back should eventually be strong enough so that you are not supporting yourself with your hands - your wrists are probably going to hurt if you are supporting yourself wiht your hands.

Wrist position - I usually make it so that my wrists are always in a neutral position - so they're not bent back towards me while on the handlebar or shifters - so you want your wrist to stay as straight as possible - and you want your elbows bent slightly, and to keep your grip on the handlebar loose - if you have your elbows locked, your grip locked, or your wrists bent back it will usually lead to pain of some sort. So you can adjust the rotation of the handlebars to make sure your wrists are straight when on the hoods or in the drops (depending on where you are most likely to ride) - make sure your shifters are adjusted so you can use them in that position.