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I will be moving from a rural area to suburban soon. My two retrievers have enjoyed the ability to go where they please, but they will be restricted to our 5 acres once we re-locate.
I would appreciate any suggestions and/or information from TE regarding experiences with underground electric fencing systems.
Thanks!
Barb
You should look for a retriever forum. I would never ever ever electrocute one of my dogs. IMHO if you really want to go down this path you MUST put the collar around your own neck and try it at the same setting, so you know what you are putting your dogs through. But, retrievers are tough dogs, and mine aren't, so maybe it isn't as bad for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by bacarver
Also, if you go down that path, look up how to train them to give them a chance to learn without being shocked.
There's nothing wrong with cordoning off a smaller part of your property, they don't have to have all 5 acres (but I walk mine every day).
Some negatives of the non-gut reaction type:
Other animals can get in/out - there have been stories of both wild animals and dogs getting into peoples yards and harassing their poor trapped dogs.
Electric fences cycle, some dogs learn they can step out if they time it just right. My neighbor's dog could do this, but for some reason he couldn't get back in, he'd sit just outside the electric fence and cry.
Other options are chain link or deer fencing.
http://www.bennersgardens.com/
There also may be local ordinances as to whether your dogs must be fenced in/on leash . . .
I recently asked my FIL how he taught their lab how to stay on their property. Might have been 2+ acres ... he said that when she was a puppy he would walk her to the edge of the property, praising her all the way, and as soon as they/she stepped off the property, he would reprimand her. Did this on all sides of the property. He said it was a long process, but after a while she knew where she was supposed to be.
Regardless of anything else about those shock collar systems, remember this: an invisible fence keeps nothing at all OUT. So neighbors' dogs, strays, coyotes, etc., will be free to cross onto your property. If they're friendly and your dogs are fixed, no big deal, but if one unfriendly dog should happen onto their territory, you've got a dog fight to break up.
Another thing is that they're proximity based. So when your dog does decide it's worth the pain to chase the deer that just crossed its boundaries, it's going to get a shock every time it tries to go back home.
An above ground electric fence with a solar charger shouldn't be prohibitively expensive.
Thanks for the ideas, TE. You have brought several concerns/points to my attention and this is why I asked the question.
At this moment, I don't think I like the idea of an electric underground fence at all because of the obvious problems, eg, they don't keep critters out.
I think that my best choice is to take the time to teach my dogs the boundary lines. They are 5 years old and still very trainable. The golden is a timid homebody and she'll stay close by. The lab mix is the most head-strong, intelligent, adventure junkie I've ever owned. I don't mind the repetition that will be required. I've trained them since they were little with several commands and they do well. The lab would probably walk right past the fence even while being shocked. Yes, this would be cruel and I would not subject him to this.
The other homeowners in the new neighborhood all let their dogs run anywhere they please. This really surprised me when we bought the land two years ago. This can lead to problems.
Thanks again!
Barb
I was always bringing my neighbor's dog back to her since the collar would fail when it rained. She was also bad about replacing batteries soon enough a few times. One day, the dog was found by a lady on her way to work, so she brought him with her (to another town). He had fun, but my neighbor did not, looking for him all day.
Gosh, have you even considered the COST of doing five acres? I bet it's not cheap.
Our neighbors had it. Our dog would routinely sneak out of our yard and go into theirs to play. Also, this other dog knew exactly where the perimeter was and would sit just inside of it and bark nonstop all freaking day.
Good luck on teaching the dogs the boundaries with out some sort of fence. That takes a HUGE amount of skill and dedication to get it to "stick".
Why not just make a large kennel/enclosure/yard and make sure they get lots of exercise. (yeah, yeah, now someone will complain about caging the dogs......)
My cousin's dog was kept in an invisible fence. This dog figured out that the collar would beep when he approached the fence. He also figured out that, when it stopped beeping, it meant that the batteries were dead and there would be no shock. So that dog would walk back and forth, with that collar beeping like crazy, until the beeping stopped and he could escape without a jolt. Needless to say, that was the end of their invisible fence ;)
I'll save my rant about invisible fences and conditioned fear and aggression for another day....
+1 on having a large kennel near the house. We live on about an acre and a half, fully fenced with a cement foundation, so the dogs can't dig out. We also have a smaller area fenced in for a kennel--it's not that small, really, maybe the size of a small urban yard. It's a godsend to be able to put the dogs away when we have company, when we're eating outside, when there are kids around, when we're swimming, and so on. They don't actually spend much time in the kennel, but it sure is nice to have the option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irulan
I also agree with Irulan that it will be very difficult to train the dogs not to leave the property. Seriously, if the lab is chasing a rabbit, it won't stop at the boundary. Mine certainly wouldn't, no matter how much time I spent training it.
We had an electric fence at the house I lived in when I was in HS. The dog was a cocker spaniel and she never once went through the fence. She heard the beeping the first time as she approached it and never went near the edge again (the installers had strung a bright yellow cord at the location of the fence so the dog had a visual clue - string got removed after a few months). It worked great, actually. And my mom did test it out on herself and it wasn't that bad of a shock at all (lowest setting, I believe). It worked so great that my dad got the bright idea of buying more yellow string and wrapping it around our couch. He cured the dog of jumping on the couch, too!
I considered one for my last dog, but I know it would not have contained her if she really wanted out. It's just the type of dog she was...and those fences obviously work great for some, not so much for others.
We now have about an acre out in the country surrounded by farmland. Our 2 dogs have a dog door that goes out into a smaller fenced part of our yard (about the size of a suburban backyard). The rest of the property is not fenced. Our dogs know to stay in our yard (or our neighbors but the neighbors also have dogs and they all play) because they are NEVER left out alone. If they are outside the fence, it's because we are out with them. We don't leash them, but we also don't ignore them so they don't run off.
I think that if you can create a smaller fenced outside area so that they have the ability to be outside if they want, and then you let them use the rest of your property in your presence, you could avoid expensive fencing for 5 acres.
We have two Border Collies, a half acre and no fence. We walked the perimeter with the dogs a few times and now they stop at the border. We have a chain outside the back door so first thing in the morning I can put them out to do their business without having to worry about a skunk being out there somewhere in the dark. They are on the chain for maybe 10 minutes each in the morning and then any other time we are outside with them at all times! Even when the tennis ball goes into the neighbours yard they stop at the edge of the property and wait for me to retrieve the ball! They say Border Collies are easy to train and now I believe it.:)
I think your best bet is to fence in a smaller portion of your property that your dogs can run around in as they please, then plan to take lots of rambling walks outside of the fenced in area.
In my town the invisible fences are acceptable to meet the legal requirements for leashing or fencing in a dog, but as others have pointed out they are far from foolproof and they do nothing to keep other animals away from your dogs.
Training your dog to know your property line is great under normal circumstances, but it's the abnormal ones you have to worry about. Very few dogs can resist chasing a squirrel or a deer or a cyclist going by. My own dog was attacked a couple of weeks ago by a dog who had been trained to know his yard's boundaries--I was out walking my dog, went by a person's house whose dog had just been let out into the yard, and their dog ran to mine and attacked (was initially apparently friendly, then when he got close enough he pounced). When I pointed out (after dragging her dog off of mine and getting in its face and yelling at it to go home) that this is WHY there are leash laws, she told me, with no trace of irony, that this is her yard and her dog doesn't leave her yard. Never mind that the dog was at that precise moment on the sidewalk in front of the neighbor's yard.
So I'm a big fan of physical boundaries.
I'm confused. If you're worried about keeping other animals out, how does simply teaching your dogs the property's boundary lines going to accomplish that?
I vote for a smaller fenced area and frequent walks.
Thanks for the additional comments, TE.
I think I'll have to figure a lot of this out as I go. I really don't see an electric fence in my future now. Extra training with my current dogs is going to be my plan. I am a patient trainer and my dogs are eager to please.
My main goals are to protect my dogs' safety and to avoid conflict with the new neighbors.
I'm sure we may have our neighbors' dogs in our yard at times since they are allowed to run free. This will only be a problem if their dogs and ours get into fights or if their dogs are destructive.
Once my two retrievers age and then pass on, I will only care for elderly rescue dogs and cats. Chasing after squirrels will be done in their dreams.
Barb
I wish there was something that can be done to train or deter cats from wandering. My cat always jumps the fence, or finds another "hole" to get out of my patio, so I can never leave him unattended. Even when I'm out there he'll jump, so I'm constantly chasing after him.
I think he actually has ME trained to come after him so that when we come back he gets a treat. I know, completely wrong time to "reward" him!
There is. You can fully enclose your deck/patio or whatever and make a kitty kennel. They get the outside experience without pooping in the neighbors gardens or risking getting run over.Quote:
Originally Posted by badger
+1. My neighbors have a screen porch, and their cat loves it. Plus they have a mosquito-free porch to enjoy on summer nights!
They also leash-trained their cat and take him for walks around the neighborhood. It took some persistence, but eventually the cat learned he wasn't going to go out without being on the leash.
I'd love to enclose my patio, but my Strata's voted it down siting it "unsightly".
Luckily beyond my patio is an enclosed couryard, so he won't get run over. I used to walk him on a harness but he's very good and just follows me so we go for walks around the courtyard a few times a week. When my dog was still around, he used to come with us to the door to the alley and wait for us in the courtyard while we did quick bathroom breaks in the morning and at night.
When I move into a house, I'll definitely get an enclosed "cattery". I'd rather know with certainty they're not running loose or getting hurt/killed by coyotes or cars.