Hybrids better for hills?

I've been riding my Trek 7.3 hybrid for about two years. I did about 750 miles this summer generally averaging 30-50 mile rides at about 13-14mph. The bike has 24 gears and I've come a long way learning how to make the most of my gears when climbing hills. I never really use the largest ring in the front (my cruising ring), so I'm really using 16 gears. I've learned through trial and error how not to pop the chain by downloading BEFORE I get to the hill.

Fast forward to this past weekend...my LBS keeps suggesting that I'm really ready for a road bike if I'm regularly riding 50 miles at a clip and would like to speed up my pace a little. So, this weekend I spent about two hours riding road bikes. I chose a 2010 Cannondale Synapse Carbon road bike. That's about as technical as I get.

It has a compact cassette in front - so there's only two rings instead of three. I figured that wouldn't be an issue since I'm used to only using two rings and the owner at the shop said there's only a 2% difference. To get to the meat of my question - I think my hybrid was much more of a billy goat climber than the new road bike. When I drop down to the lowest gear - the one where I can spin the fastest - there's no doubt my spin was easier on the hybrid. The hills - rolling, not mountainous - I rode this weekend were not as easy as they should have been for me. I'm wondering if I'm going to have a problem when I get to the serious hills.

I think the smallest ring on the front of the road bike is larger than the smallest ring on the front of the hybrid - do you think that would be the issue and I'll just need to compensate with stronger legs? I'm thinking I'll go for clipless in the Spring and that will make hills easier, but I want to get a really good feel for the bike before I do that.

I can't do the math for you, but I think you should trust your instincts. go back and tell the guy you want a triple! Hills in NJ can be tough.
Since you already said you never use the largest ring on your bike, you don't want a new bike that has no low end gears.

Did you tell him you never use the big chain ring on your trek fx? Because if you did, selling you a compact double doesn't make too much sense.



Your trek fx should have something like a 48/38/28 crank ring up front with an 11-32 cassette in the back.

Your cannondale is probably a 50/34 up front with an 12-26 in the back, from what I can tell.

So your smallest chain ring up front on the trek is a 28 tooth ring - the smallest one on the cannondale is a 34 tooth ring. YOu used to hang out on 38 and 28 tooth rings on the trek, and you've only got a 50 & a 34 tooth ring on the cannondale.

In the back, the opposite is true - the bigger the cog or the # of teeth, the easier it is to get up hills - your trek fx has a 32 tooth cog in the back. The largest cog your cannondale has is a 26 tooth ring. So you've lost a lot of gears both up front and in the back with the switch.



You can go to sheldon brown's gear calculator and actually work out the numbers, but that is waaaay more than a 2% change in gearing that he sold you. You're actually going to have a hard time matching the gearing you have on the trek fx on a standard road bike. But a road bike is a lot more effecient, so shouldn't need quite so much gears. And yeah, your legs should get stronger. You might want to look at a touring type style bike.

But definitely, go back and get a triple. Hopefully your bike shop will let you exchange. Whatever triple you get, you might want to see if they can swap an 11-28 or bigger cassette onto the back for you.

I'd be surprised if your compact was truly geared only 2% taller than your hybrid triple. That would be unusual. But there's no way for us to know if you yourself don't know what the gearing is on either bike.

It's possible you can achieve the same low gear by swapping out the cassette, but depending on how big your largest cog is now, you may need a different rear derailleur to do that.

Which model Synapse? What year Trek? We might be able to look up the specs...

Wow...lots of information here. I wish I had some information to give back. If memory serves correct the Trek is a 2007. But, I really don't know what model the Synapse is.

I'll go into the bike shop this weekend - the owner, a woman who started the shop 40 years ago, has been good to work with so I can only hope that will continue.

Do you think it would be an option to put a 3-ring on the Synapse? Or is there something about the frame of the bike that makes it designed to only accomodate a double?

Changing the synapse to a triple probably requires new shifters, new crankset, new front derailleur, and possibly a new rear derailleur.

It can be done, but it'd be an expensive switch.

If you want to tell us exactly what's on either bike - when you go home tonight, you can either count the number of teeth on each bike up front or in the back (really, you just want to know how many teeth the biggest cog in the back has, and how many teeth the smallest chain ring in the front has. ) Probably what I guessed they were in my post up there is right or pretty close to it - and if that's the case, there's no way in heck that's a 2% difference in gearing. And even if you changed the rear cassette in the back to an 11-32 or an 11-34, you'd probably still be missing gears - but that may be enough to make it ridable for you.

Why not just check out some bikes that already come built as a triple? The Giant Avail 3 comes in a triple, as does the Specialized Dolce and Ruby Comp. For Trek models, the new Lexa and Madone 4.5 and 5.2 are all available in a triple.

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Originally Posted by nscrbug

Why not just check out some bikes that already come built as a triple? The Giant Avail 3 comes in a triple, as does the Specialized Dolce and Ruby Comp. For Trek models, the new Lexa and Madone 4.5 and 5.2 are all available in a triple.

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Nscrbug - I see you have the Cannondale Synapse...is it a double? How do you like it? Actually I also tried out the Madone - I'm guessing it was either a 3.5 or a 4.5 cause it was priced about $2,100 or so. I liked it, but something pulled me towards this one.

But, like Cataboo said, if were talking switching all this stuff over it sounds real expensive and doesn't make sense. Ironically, frame was supposedly in a box in the basment. I spoke with the owner last week, she said she had a bike in mind that she was going to have built for me. Now I know this isn't a custom bike or anything, but she knew she was looking for a 51 cm frame so she had the bike geared towards what she thought I would like.

Cataboo - I absolutely will count the teeth...I'm totally impressed with your technical knowledge. But, I can't count the teeth on the Cannondale till this weekend. We have a vacation condo on the Jersey shore - that's where I'm keeping this bike. So as soon as I count all these teeth I'll post with the info.

I already put in a call to the bike shop that I'd like to talk to her about the bike. So, what type of rider would a compact cassette be beneficial for? There must be some pros or they wouldn't make them, right?

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Originally Posted by nikkoblu2

Nscrbug - I see you have the Cannondale Synapse...is it a double? How do you like it? Actually I also tried out the Madone - I'm guessing it was either a 3.5 or a 4.5 cause it was priced about $2,100 or so. I liked it, but something pulled me towards this one.

But, like Cataboo said, if were talking switching all this stuff over it sounds real expensive and doesn't make sense. Ironically, frame was supposedly in a box in the basment. I spoke with the owner last week, she said she had a bike in mind that she was going to have built for me. Now I know this isn't a custom bike or anything, but she knew she was looking for a 51 cm frame so she had the bike geared towards what she thought I would like.

Cataboo - I absolutely will count the teeth...I'm totally impressed with your technical knowledge. But, I can't count the teeth on the Cannondale till this weekend. We have a vacation condo on the Jersey shore - that's where I'm keeping this bike. So as soon as I count all these teeth I'll post with the info.

I already put in a call to the bike shop that I'd like to talk to her about the bike. So, what type of rider would a compact cassette be beneficial for? There must be some pros or they wouldn't make them, right?

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Yes, my Cannondale Synapse 3 is a compact double. It's a wonderful bike, now that I have resolved most of my "issues" that I had with it.

To answer your other question regarding who would benefit from a compact...compact cranks are great for those riders who like to have some hill gearing without going to a triple crank. I live in the suburbs of Chicago, so the term "hills" is used rather loosely here, as we have no REAL hills. Now, I am a pathetic hill-climber even on the measly so-called "hills" we have here, so I need all the help I can get...hence, the reason I chose to go with a compact double. My older bike is a Trek 2100 WSD triple...which aside from being too large for me, was a fine bike...however, I didn't care for the triple crank because it was noisy and not quite as smooth-shifting as my double. Hope this helps somewhat.

Linda

Compact doubles shift a little better and easier than a triple - they're also that little bit lighter.

I have one bike that's a compact double and one that's a triple. You're used to way easier gears on your trek fx than most people have on a road bike - you've got smaller chain rings up front than a road triple, and you've got what's basically mountain bike gearing on the back - road bike cassettes typically have the biggest cog available as 28 - but that's changed recently since shimano came out with a road cassette that's bigger this year. And since most of the time you say you ride that in your two smaller chain rings up front, I'd probably say you shouldn't switch to a compact double yet. The cannondale is going to be a lot easier in terms of having smaller tires, etc. and more efficient to get going - and I'm not saying that you can't use a compact double - just that you're going to miss your gears (you already do) and you probably shouldn't make so drastic a change just yet.

So I just spoke with the owner on the phone (naturally this is totally consuming me). I told her I was really unhappy with the compact double. Whether a granny gear or not...I want it back. I ride a lot of...significant...hills and actually look for them cause of the sense of pride after I haul my tush to the top.

She said she would speak to the guy that does the bike building regarding the cost to take care of this problem.

So what is considered acceptable here? I know changing the front cassette maybe mean changing the rear derailer and God knows what else. The bike was listed at $2,100. I asked her what she could take off being that it's a 2010. She came up with $1,900. By the time I added in the wireless computer, bottle caddy and tax the grand total was $2,149.

How much should I expect gratis being that they're trying to make a customer happy and I've only put 50 miles on the bike and already know I need to switch this out?

Do you have to have THAT bike? Most of the shops I go to have at least a 30 day return policy if you don't like the bike and will give you a different one better suited to you. Not sure which model Synapse you have, and I'm not familiar with those bikes, but just a quick glance at the website and it looks like some models have an option of either a triple or a compact. Seems a lot easier to just switch out your bike than to switch (and charge you) for the components.....

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Originally Posted by JennK13

Do you have to have THAT bike? Most of the shops I go to have at least a 30 day return policy if you don't like the bike and will give you a different one better suited to you. Not sure which model Synapse you have, and I'm not familiar with those bikes, but just a quick glance at the website and it looks like some models have an option of either a triple or a compact. Seems a lot easier to just switch out your bike than to switch (and charge you) for the components.....

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Jenn, that's a really valid point. And, no, I don't HAVE to have this bike. When I call the bike shop later today I'll discuss that option of trying out a different bike altogether or a Synapse 3-ring.

I'm going the other way on my Kona Dew. I hang out on the largest rings up front. I think I've used the granny once and I don't ride that route on that bike anymore. I think the double is going to give me more usable gears in the range I usually ride. I'm looking forward to the switch.

Deb

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Originally Posted by blackhillsbiker

I'm going the other way on my Kona Dew. I hang out on the largest rings up front. I think I've used the granny once and I don't ride that route on that bike anymore. I think the double is going to give me more usable gears in the range I usually ride. I'm looking forward to the switch.

Deb

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Deb - you must have some serious hills where you ride. Yes? Not to mention how beautiful I hear it is out there. So do you like to spin up hill or are you a stander?

I'm headed back to the bike shop to do some more test riding this weekend and focus specifically on gearing up hills. Fortunately, the LBS seems like they will be quite accomodating to whatever works for me.

We do have some serious hills, but I don't ride them on this bike. It's my commuter. I'm not much of a spinner in any case. Most of the hill riding I do on the MTB (29er). I appreciate the wide range of gearing on that bike. I've had a lot of trouble with the derailleur on the Dew. I was going to just upgrade components. When we (the LBS guy and I) started talking about the gears I use on that bike, and the type of riding I use it for, we decided a double would be much less frustrating for me. You're right. An accommodating and helpful LBS is important. I'm glad yours is working with you to achieve the bike that will fit you best.

It's beautiful out here. You should visit sometime.:)

Deb

Well this is turning out to be a timely thread for me. I just tested out a 2010 Madone 4.7, which only comes with a compact double. My old road bike has a triple, and I use the granny gear a lot. Unfortunately for today's ride I wasn't able to try it out on any real hills, so tomorrow I'm going back for a longer ride which will include some rollers as well as two hills that I normally need the granny gear on.

I spent hours at the LBS yesterday riding my new compact double and a comparable Cannondale Synapse with a triple paying attention just to switching gears. Spent a lot of time talking to all the shop's staff after spending the week reading about compact doubles.

Guess I should have done all that before I bought the bike, but it turns out I'm keeping what I have and am quite pleased now. Seems I can hang out on that 50-tooth ring in the front for 80-90% of the ride and just switch around on the 10 gears in the back.

Did a ride today where there was only one hill where I really needed the 34 tooth ring - definitely no need for the granny gear, but there will be an adjustment period. My confidence is going back up that THIS bike will get me up the hills like my hybrid did...that that's a huge part of getting up the hill.

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Originally Posted by nikkoblu2

My confidence is going back up that THIS bike will get me up the hills like my hybrid did...that that's a huge part of getting up the hill.

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Exactly!

I went through the same processes a few years ago when DH gave me a new drivetrain for our wedding. :D I moved from a triple to a compact double on my road bike. I will have to say that there was an adjustment period, but I have been able to ride all the hills at the foot of the Blue Ridge Mtns. here in VA that I rode with my triple. Additionally, I have ridden in the Rockies several times and have not yet found a hill I cannot pedal. You will be fine!

I've got the Cannondale Synapse compact double as well, coming from a hybrid with a triple and a granny gear. The first month was hard, but then I got used to the compact, and also better at balancing while standing up on steep hills. And clipless pedals help a ton! You'll like the Cannondale a lot more once you get the clipless pedals on her.

I'm going from a triple to a compact double when I get my new baby. I"m a little bit nervous. But I decided compact is "it" for me b/c I don't find myself changing gears very much with the triple. It's just too testy. I look forward to the straight-forwardness of the compact double. It is good to know that Tiva learned to get used to your compact double as I'm in Madison area :) There are some hills here for sure (north west of Madison)

Hey Tiva - thanks for the input. So glad to hear you're happy with the transition from the triple to the double. Funny you mention standing up on hills - cause I notice how much more wobbly standing on the road bike is as compared to the hybrid. Actually, I don't really stand much and try to use my gears sufficiently so I don't have to. But, it's nice to know standing is always an option to get that last bit of power to get over the hurdle.

I'll get the clipless in the Spring. Planning on doing a charity ride this Saturday in Hazleton, PA - they've got scads of hills - so this will be great practice getting in groove with the lower gears.

I'm finding that I shift much more often with the double. I guess I had been avoiding it with the triple because it was much harder to shift. I had the derailleur adjusted bunches of times but it never seemed to help. Now it seems so easy and responsive. My last few rides have been much more fun.

Deb