Waist matters & frustration - some venting

I couldn't figure out where to put this, so it wound up here.

It is about my waist. I am a Type 2 diabetic - though mild and controlled by diet and exercise I certainly don't want it to get worse. In the past 9, almost 10, months I have lost close to 50 pounds and have gone from 47% body fat to 20%. That translates to a LOT of very hard work - and without a thyroid or reproductive system (I only take thyroid replacement, no other replacements), well I generally say that I have to work harder than the average bear to get my body's attention. That's fine, I do what I need to do.

The reason I am mentioning all of this is that I just cannot seem to lose my apple shape. My body wants to have all of my body fat in middle, and this just isn't good for the diabetes. I work my azz off between strength training, spinning class, and the bike - and have a strict diet. At this point I am losing inches everywhere BUT my waist. Thankfully my thighs and calves are getting bigger from muscle and that is a GOOD thing - they were too small.

Has anyone had this problem? Were you able to find a way to decrease the abdominal fat? Perhaps I am expecting too much out of myself with all of the progress that I've made over a relatively short time - and I have had two abdominal surgeries over the years which may be contributing from all of those muscles having been cut.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

and I have had two abdominal surgeries over the years which may be contributing from all of those muscles having been cut.

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Considering that, I'd bet it's not "fat" you are frustrated with so much as abdominal/core tone.

I can make a woman look 20 lbs lighter in 20 seconds just by correcting her posture and having her activate her core. Tell your trainer to start earning his keep and address your core!
(and that does NOT mean sit ups and curl ups!)

I will talk with him. We have been doing a lot of core work - with weights and with the stability ball. Perhaps there are some things that I can do at home that will supplement this, I will ask him. He doesn't have me do sit ups or curl ups at all.

Habits are more important than exercises for core, honestly.

Exercises are just to perk things up. Holding them that way for a full day is the real work out!

Posture and static things like sustained plank (prone and side) in all their variations are the big guns.

But the biggest gun of all is increasing tone by activating the core all the time through posture. (you don't want it to think it only has to work during exercise. You want it active all the time, so train it to be active all the time by using it every moment of the day.)

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Habits are more important than exercises for core, honestly.

Exercises are just to perk things up. Holding them that way for a full day is the real work out!

Posture and static things like sustained plank (prone and side) in all their variations are the big guns.

But the biggest gun of all is increasing tone by activating the core all the time through posture. (you don't want it to think it only has to work during exercise. You want it active all the time, so train it to be active all the time.)

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Ahhhh, I understand now. I know about the plank (prone) and will ask him about the side. You are telling me that I need to focus on holding my stomach muscles in all of the time - yes? Considering I work at a computer I am quite sure that this is related.

Everything Knott said...plus Pilates (good, classical Pilates-you've heard it all before). I was amazed at the difference Pilates made in the shape of my middle. It helped my posture, too. And my back pain disappeared.

BTW, that is awesome that you have lost so much weight and that your body fat percentage decreased so much. No doubt you have been working very hard! Congratulations!

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Originally Posted by tulip

Everything Knott said...plus Pilates (good, classical Pilates-you've heard it all before). I was amazed at the difference Pilates made in the shape of my middle. It helped my posture, too. And my back pain disappeared.

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Are you referring to something they call "mat" Pilates - not Reformer? My club doesn't charge extra for the former but they do for the latter. Currently I have no extra time for an additional class - but winter is coming - I will look into this.

I do the mat series, but I would do the reformer, too, if I could afford it right now. But I can't and that's okay because the mat series is quite comprehensive. I'm just a little apprehensive about all-around clubs offering Pilates. In my experience, those "pilates" classes at gyms have been downright dangerous. But you should check into it.

Seriously, I'd do Pilates over weights if I had to choose. But be sure it's good Pilates.

I have a question: is there a quick test to see if your core strength is good or needs work?

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Originally Posted by badger

I have a question: is there a quick test to see if your core strength is good or needs work?

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Quick Test: do your back, hips, or shoulders ever hurt?

(only slightly kidding)

If you "fix your posture" so it is perfect, does it look different than how you normally stand? Does it feel like too much work?

Do you have a belly "pooch" that disappears when you "suck it in"?

Do you have the beginnings of a dowager's hump or old lady hump?

Do you lock your knees when you stand still?

Do you have stress incontinence? Peeing a bit when you laugh, sneeze, cough, jump, run, or really gotta go?

(not kidding at all)

+1 on Pilates! Helped my posture, my back pain, AND it was great post-accident & post-PT.

I do mat as well as reformer (& other apparatus). I find they complement each other very well. I tend to get stuck in my mat progress unless I can also do some closed chain work on the reformer as well. Plus it's just great for variety.

Pilates is best learned in one-on-one sessions or small groups. It's pricey, but the best instructors are worth it.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Do you have stress incontinence? Peeing a bit when you laugh, sneeze, cough, jump, run, or really gotta go?

(not kidding at all)

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I had read a few years back that doing regular core work can really help strengthen the PC muscle, since the entire torso (inside and out) will be stronger. And it's true. I have far fewer drippy issues (damned kid messed up more than just my uterus and skin!) when I am regularly doing core work.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Quick Test: do your back, hips, or shoulders ever hurt?

(only slightly kidding)

If you "fix your posture" so it is perfect, does it look different than how you normally stand? Does it feel like too much work?

Do you have a belly "pooch" that disappears when you "suck it in"?

Do you have the beginnings of a dowager's hump or old lady hump?

Do you lock your knees when you stand still?

Do you have stress incontinence? Peeing a bit when you laugh, sneeze, cough, jump, run, or really gotta go?

(not kidding at all)

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let's see:
pain = sometimes.
posture = yes (I have notoriously bad posture where DB is always telling me to straighten up).
pooch = I have a stubborn belly pooch that I've always had and never seems to go away no matter what I do. I do not have a weight issue, but have always had a bit more jelly around the belly button than I like (bit of a muffin top).
dowager's hump = thankfully no.
lock my knees = never noticed, but most likely.
stress incontinence = very thankfully no.

Quick Test: do your back, hips, or shoulders ever hurt? - lower back - rarely. Known for muscle spasms in around shoulder blade and stiff shoulders

If you "fix your posture" so it is perfect, does it look different than how you normally stand? Does it feel like too much work? Yes

Do you have a belly "pooch" that disappears when you "suck it in"?
I have the pooch that disappears, and the pooch (lower) that does not. The part that does not is in the same area as my long ago surgery - more recent surgery used the DaVinci machine)

Do you have the beginnings of a dowager's hump or old lady hump? Nope

Do you lock your knees when you stand still? I am actually unsure on this one, will pay attention

Do you have stress incontinence? Occasionally :o

Not that there was any doubt that I need more core work - but this was helpful.

Thanks Knotted - I wish that you were close enough that I could make an appointment with you!

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Originally Posted by Catrin

Thanks Knotted - I wish that you were close enough that I could make an appointment with you!

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Don't we all! Who votes to clone Knott?

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Don't we all! Who votes to clone Knott?

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I am sure we all would! She would be the wealthiest in her chosen profession in the country :D

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Quick Test: do your back, hips, or shoulders ever hurt? Shoulders/neck always hurt, it's just a matter of how much. The tightness causes a lot of migraines. Lower back occasionally feels like something is bulging or out-of-whack. Hips don't seem to give me too much trouble.

If you "fix your posture" so it is perfect, does it look different than how you normally stand? Does it feel like too much work? Definitely. I think my posture is better when I stand as opposed to when I sit. Then it's just horrible.

Do you have a belly "pooch" that disappears when you "suck it in"? That's not normal?:p Funny, it always seemed like I would get smaller only from my chest to my belly button and below that always bulges.

Do you have the beginnings of a dowager's hump or old lady hump? I don't think so.

Do you lock your knees when you stand still? Not sure.

Do you have stress incontinence? Peeing a bit when you laugh, sneeze, cough, jump, run, or really gotta go? No.

(not kidding at all)

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Hmmm, I think I failed that test:eek:

Knott.... is there a good book that you recommend for core exercises? I have been reading your posts over the years and appreciate all your advise that you've shared with us. I guess the planks, side and forward, bird dog poses are good ones to try and do often??? I have been getting 'thick in the middle' I want to blame it on menopause but guess I need to work on the core on a regular basis.

The BEST exercise I know is to have someone coach you into good posture and then stay in good posture.

No kidding.

I've always been fascinated by posture and how people hold themselves, but my personal "ah HAH!" moment was when I was working with a Pilates instructor to design a bridge class for back patients who were transitioning from PT to Pilates. She taught me things about my own posture that were amazing.

If you can get a really good Pilates instructor for some one-on-one (or an Alexander Technique instructor, or a Yoga instructor, boxing coach, dance teacher, whomever) and have them go over your posture, it is so valuable. Those outside eyes see the things you can't feel, and can coach you to arrange your body into subtle corrections that you never knew were there.

If they give you a blank look and say "well, I can give you some exercises" then they are probably not high caliber. Someone who really knows their chosen discipline (whatever it is) will be able to create hours of work and sweat and tears for you out of just standing still.

And that's a core workout!

Exercises (in my little universe, of which I am the center) are to perk up your muscles and make you aware of them. And hopefully you will then utilize them more every moment of your day.

You can go to the best exercise class in town, but if you climb into your car afterwards and slouch down in the seat for the drive home, stand with locked knees and dropped chest while you cook dinner, then slump in front of your computer for a few hours, then sag in the couch to watch a movie before bed.... well, what have you changed?

My favorite exercises for core and posture are the prone and side planks. They are just "good posture" turned on its face or side. If I take a picture of someone and cut away all the background, I shouldn't be able to tell if they are standing up, in a prone plank, or in a side plank. It should all be the same neutral spine and good posture. Switching the orientation of the body to gravity mixes things up a little and makes posture spicy! (painful, hot, and sweaty)

I am an apple too. Well, my husband says I am more of a zucchini.
I do not have diabetes but I have HBP and high cholesterol.
My LDL is high and my HDL is extremely low.
MY HBP is stable now but I have had periods where I have had to take the max of 4 separate drugs just to keep it at the stage 1 level. I have been in hypertensive crisis twice and show eye damage.
The positive is that tests detect no plaque buildup or heart damage. My Dr.s give credit to my diet and exercise.

Plus there are some positives to the apple physique.
Pears constantly ask me how to get rid of saddle bags because I do not have them.
I also do not have cellulite. My husband has more dimples than I do.
And I recently heard that apples are more intelligent than pears!

I also love Pilates mat work. It is a miracle for your back and even though it may not give you a waist, it will improve your shape as it strengthens your core.

I just wanna say, if you're 20% body fat then you have less fat than I do, and I'm pretty thin. And although your waist/hip ratio might be higher than you want and higher than ideal, I'm sure you've lost fat and inches around your waist as you've lost all that weight. And that's a very good thing. It fis still an improvement for your overall health.

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Originally Posted by MommyBird

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And I recently heard that apples are more intelligent than pears!

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Where did you hear this?

I'm sure you didn't mean to offend the pears among us, but IMHO, there are a lot of very intelligent pears posting on this forum.

FWIW, I'm neither a pear nor an apple. And I readily admit that "groups" claiming to more intelligent/better than other "groups" is a real hot button issue for me.

People come in all shapes and sizes, and let's face it, other people usually don't pay attention or even care about another person's shape. They are more interested in whether a person is kind, interesting to speak with, a good friend, etc.

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Originally Posted by ny biker

I just wanna say, if you're 20% body fat then you have less fat than I do, and I'm pretty thin. And although your waist/hip ratio might be higher than you want and higher than ideal, I'm sure you've lost fat and inches around your waist as you've lost all that weight. And that's a very good thing. It fis still an improvement for your overall health.

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Indeed, and I know that...it is just that all of that 20% body fat seems to be at my waist and it just gets frustrating. I am still happy with my progress though!

I feel your pain Catrin. All of my weight is in my stomach and hips. It's not that bad when I'm standing, but when I sit, it's like my body sucks all the fat straight to my stomach. It's maddening.

Yesterday I spent a good 5 hours in the car and the bulk of the time I focused on sucking in my stomach and engaging my abs. It's definitely easier with the upper abs than the lower. My stomach is actually a little sore today, so I guess I was doing something! I will continue to try to focus on my posture and try to get in more mat work.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

Indeed, and I know that...it is just that all of that 20% body fat seems to be at my waist and it just gets frustrating. I am still happy with my progress though!

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And I would like to take the fat from my thighs and put it in my ridiculously small boobs....

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Originally Posted by ny biker

And I would like to take the fat from my thighs and put it in my ridiculously small boobs....

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When I used to teach an adult metal-smithing class in NY, one of my students came in late, and asked if she looked different, which she did. I asked what she had done, and she said "I had the fat sucked out of my azz and put into my lips." :D

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Originally Posted by NoNo

I feel your pain Catrin. All of my weight is in my stomach and hips. It's not that bad when I'm standing, but when I sit, it's like my body sucks all the fat straight to my stomach. It's maddening.
... I will continue to try to focus on my posture and try to get in more mat work.

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Thanks to Knotted I am starting to think about my posture. It will be difficult to break bad habits of many years, but what she said made a lot of sense

I have always had small hips - back in my largest of days there was quite often a 2-3 size difference between hips and what most would consider my waist :eek: It is still hard for me to see myself as the size I actually am - I can feel that stomach and I suspect that I see myself as still being on the obese side. I can't argue with the size of the clothes that fit though, so that is helping.

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Originally Posted by ny biker

And I would like to take the fat from my thighs and put it in my ridiculously small boobs....

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You can have some of mine - have always wanted smaller boobs :cool:

Great thread! I'm an apple too -- all my weight is in my torso, but I have normal/thin arms, legs and no butt.

I have hypothyroidism,HBP and am post-menopausal. Still I keep fighting the battle of the bulge. I'm not losing the war, but I'm not winning either. I eat right, exercise and just try like heck not to gain any weight. But I am 28% body fat and I feel it.

The posture tips are good.. gets us all to thinking! Thanks, Knot!!

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Originally Posted by NoNo

I feel your pain Catrin. All of my weight is in my stomach and hips. It's not that bad when I'm standing, but when I sit, it's like my body sucks all the fat straight to my stomach.....

....It's definitely easier with the upper abs than the lower.

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Lift your boobs.
Pull in your lower belly.

If you get a belly sitting, but not standing, then you are very likely dropping into a slouch and turning off your lower abs as soon as you plop into a seat. The chest drops, the neck cranes forward, and the abdominal contents land in the lap. They have nowhere else to go but OUT when your ribcage slops down onto the abdominal cavity.

To let the guts out of the way, your body has to turn OFF the lower abs. It will be very hard to pull the lower abs back into work while the guts are flopped out and begging for mercy to get away from the ribcage. It's also very hard to breathe until the ribcage is back up. The body has a strategy of dumping the abdominal contents into your lap to make room in your squashed torso for your lungs to expand.

So, first lift the ribcage back into it's rightful place (lift the boobs), *then* pull the lower belly in.

The return of low rise jeans made me develop some better sitting habits, I can tell you that right now. :o

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Lift your boobs.
Pull in your lower belly.

If you get a belly sitting, but not standing, then you are very likely dropping into a slouch and turning off your lower abs as soon as you plop into a seat. The chest drops, the neck cranes forward, and the abdominal contents land in the lap. They have nowhere else to go but OUT when your ribcage slops down onto the abdominal cavity.

To let the guts out of the way, your body has to turn OFF the lower abs. It will be very hard to pull the lower abs back into work while the guts are flopped out and begging for mercy to get away from the ribcage. It's also very hard to breathe until the ribcage is back up. The body has a strategy of dumping the abdominal contents into your lap to make room in your squashed torso for your lungs to expand.

So, first lift the ribcage back into it's rightful place (lift the boobs), *then* pull the lower belly in.

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Very, very interesting. Makes a lot of sense, too. Guess I have something to focus on. I suspect the men in my office will be happy with these changes.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by NoNo

Very, very interesting. Makes a lot of sense, too. Guess I have something to focus on. I suspect the men in my office will be happy with these changes.:rolleyes:

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What matters is YOUR happiness!

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Originally Posted by Selkie

Where did you hear this?

I'm sure you didn't mean to offend the pears among us, but IMHO, there are a lot of very intelligent pears posting on this forum.

FWIW, I'm neither a pear nor an apple. And I readily admit that "groups" claiming to more intelligent/better than other "groups" is a real hot button issue for me.

People come in all shapes and sizes, and let's face it, other people usually don't pay attention or even care about another person's shape. They are more interested in whether a person is kind, interesting to speak with, a good friend, etc.

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to quote a Danish James Thurber type poet " you wouldn't worry what people think of you if you knew that they seldom do."

marni

thank you, Knot! I totally failed your little test, although I knew my core was in need of help anyway (combination of surgery and years of bad posture). Your description of bad posture sounds just like mine. I had better start doing something about it. Starting.....now! Puh, that's hard work! But how do you breathe and read papers and concentrate on work while also focusing on contracting stomach muscles and lifting boobs?

I started thinking about posture a few weeks ago. I am a pear, and always have had a small waist, even when I was heavier.
But lately, my whole ab area (upper and lower) feels loose. I don't have a belly, but I just don't like the changes I feel. I am definitely in the bad posture category, so I am trying to be aware and pull those muscles in at all times. It's really hard! I tend to lock my knees, too. I notice that almost everyone around here does that.
Catrin, you know, I felt the same way about my rear end. After getting into shape, years ago, it's not huge anymore, but it's never going to be firm and toned, like my core. Well, maybe with lots of squats and lunges, but I am not willing to do that. I am in proportion, and accept the fact that it's my weak spot.
Yea, if I had even average sized boobs, I wouldn't look so pear-ish.

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Originally Posted by Crankin

I started thinking about posture a few weeks ago. I am a pear, and always have had a small waist, even when I was heavier.
But lately, my whole ab area (upper and lower) feels loose. I don't have a belly, but I just don't like the changes I feel. I am definitely in the bad posture category, so I am trying to be aware and pull those muscles in at all times. It's really hard! I tend to lock my knees, too. I notice that almost everyone around here does that.
Catrin, you know, I felt the same way about my rear end. After getting into shape, years ago, it's not huge anymore, but it's never going to be firm and toned, like my core. Well, maybe with lots of squats and lunges, but I am not willing to do that. I am in proportion, and accept the fact that it's my weak spot.
Yea, if I had even average sized boobs, I wouldn't look so pear-ish.

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I fake an hourglass figure by having broad shoulders.

So yesterday I tried keeping good posture the entire day at work. I seriously never have to leave my desk, so there's tons of potential for bad posture. By 1:30 I was tired. It was hard to stay upright! I wanted to lean or slouch or hunch so badly. By 4:30 I was glad to be heading home, where I knew I'd be on my feet most of the night.

But there was a problem: I'd started to get a headache just before I left work. Then I got home and it got a little worse. By the time I was done working around the house around 9, it was a pretty bad headache. Not my normal headache which starts in my neck, but my skull was locked up. I fell asleep watching tv, which normally helps. Nope, pain was still there. I staggered to bed and spent a fitful few hours trying to sleep through the shooting pain in my skull. At 4AM I couldn't take it any more and popped some Excedrin. It took a while, but the pain finally subsided. My question: Could the headache be related to the effort of keeping upright all day? Like I was using new muscles and they cramped up? I very rarely get a headache where my skull locks like that, so I thought there might be a correlation.

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Originally Posted by NoNo

My question: Could the headache be related to the effort of keeping upright all day? Like I was using new muscles and they cramped up? I very rarely get a headache where my skull locks like that, so I thought there might be a correlation.

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Could be. When I get a tension headache, it's VERY painful, and there are muscles in my neck and shoulder that tend to be tight as well. I have a muscle relaxant that I take before bed when I get to one of these, but if it's the middle of the day and I don't want to sleep, or if I don't have access to my medication, I work on trigger points in my neck, shoulder and face and it helps relieve the worst of the pain.

In Pilates we work a lot at keeping shoulders relaxed and neutral. In a lot of the exercises there can be a tendency to shrug the shoulders, or in my case, hyperextend them. It's another body awareness thing to develop.

How is your desk at work set up? Is the height of your chair appropriate to your desktop/keyboard? What about your monitor? Do you need a footrest? All of these things should be positioned to promote good posture. There's probably a good diagram of this floating around on the internet somewhere.

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Originally Posted by NbyNW

How is your desk at work set up? Is the height of your chair appropriate to your desktop/keyboard? What about your monitor? Do you need a footrest? All of these things should be positioned to promote good posture. There's probably a good diagram of this floating around on the internet somewhere.

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Oh, it's set up properly. We even had a guy come a few years back to assess us and find chairs that worked for us. So I have a nice chair, a foot rest, and my keyboard and mouse are on one of those adjustable tray things. Doesn't mean my body likes being "ergonomically correct".