Is it ever the bike?

It just came up in conversation one day, someone asked me if I was sure that my utter lack of progress in getting a faster average speed on a bike (still stuck under 30km/h after 6 months) wasn't because of my bike.

I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, the amount of thought that went into buying my road bike was "Oh, look, a 44cm frame and for 800 bucks. Sold!" and my first mountain bike was also a terrible ride until I traded it up for something else. On the other hand, the words "a bike is only as good as its rider" are still ringing loud and clear in my ears.

What do you guys think? Is it ever the bike, even after fit is factored in?

Alexis, i think the bike can be part of it. I look at my former mtn bike (small scott scale 40) and how big it is compared to my titus. No wonder i had a few issues :o..

Life is so much better on a bike that fits. I finally understand what it means to feel at one with my bike :cool:

Just a thought :o

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Originally Posted by crazycanuck

Alexis, i think the bike can be part of it. I look at my former mtn bike (small scott scale 40) and how big it is compared to my titus. No wonder i had a few issues :o..

Life is so much better on a bike that fits. I finally understand what it means to feel at one with my bike :cool:

Just a thought :o

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I know that feeling, my first GT Avalanche was terrible, far too big and heavy for me despite it being a small size. Switching to the Voodoo was like growing wings. Which was why I wondered about my road bike, it fits at 44 cm but it also doesn't feel right somehow.

I think of it like which would make you go faster - a bus or a ferrari :p

If you get a better bike, yes you might go faster, and be able to go for longer distances, but it won't do anything for your fitness. I think that's the key point. You need to keep up your training along with it.

I'm wanting a new lighter bike because my area is very hilly, and I don't trust myself to be able to get up some of them on a 14kg mountain bike orientated hybrid.

I thought I was a terrible rider. My husband had leap ahead of me in speed and endurance and I was the slowest member of the cycle club's slow group.

Then I changed my bike from an Aluminium hybrid with disc brakes to a full carbon road bike.

I gained 6km average faster. Suddenly I wasn't the slowest anymore and could keep up with our friends. Bike weight difference 8kg vs 15kg.

Yes sometimes it's the bike.

This is really two questions:

Some bikes are always going to be faster than others with a given rider over a given terrain. Weight; geometry; stiffness vs. flexiness of frame, wheels and components; suspension setup if any, etc.

If you're making no progress, bike fit could be contributing, even if it's a theoretically go-fast bike. But I think the fit would have to be pretty far off, and very uncomfortable, to keep you from making any progress at all, and you would know it. It's more likely something in your training or nutrition IMO. Or possibly in your expectations. What exactly are we talking about? Have you been stuck at 29.9 km/h for the whole six months? Or ...?

My road bike isn't exactly a go fast bike. Its a Cannondale Optimo from a while ago and weighs possibly in the 9kg range?

I've been mountain biking on and off for 5 years prior to this, but only started training seriously 6 months ago. Since getting the road bike, the speeds have stayed pretty much 24 to 30km/h the whole time, the only time there was a difference was when my friend helped me tweak the fit, then it just took less effort to keep going at 30. There's a race coming up next May that I really want to do and suddenly, I feel like I've wasted 6 months training with nothing to show for it.

Muirenn, I'm not quite sure what's off. I have a sneaky suspicion that 650CC wheels and a 44cm frame while fitting fine, are a touch too small for me. I've managed fine on 48 to 50cm bikes before but took this one anyway because the ladies who owned it before me were about the same build. Which...probably not the best idea...Hmmmm.

That's not exactly a slow bike, either, although it's true that fit could be off.

Have you ruled out all the usual suspects? You talked before about issues with nutrition (both on the bike and your recovery nutrition). That's a huge possibility. Also, it's a common mistake that people go too hard on their recovery days, or don't take enough recovery days. Are you following a training plan? There's nothing wrong with making it up as you go, but if that's what you're doing, are you doing a focused mix of speedwork, long rides and recovery? Sometimes a HRM can be a useful tool to enforce easy rides on your recovery days. What about form work (particularly downhill/high cadence intervals and/or one legged drills) once your fit is sorted?

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Originally Posted by alexis_the_tiny

My road bike isn't exactly a go fast bike. Its a Cannondale Optimo from a while ago and weighs possibly in the 9kg range?

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Hi Alexis,
yours is maybe not a very lightweight bike, but it can be fast... which is actually good news, meaning that maybe there's a few things that you can do with your bike to be faster :)

Now, to answer your original question of 'is it ever the bike?' - I guess I'm not with the crowd, but in my experience, provided that the bike fits, the answer has always been NO.
The main factors are bike fit and training.

Sometimes when people lament about their bike being 'too slow' - I offer to do small experiments, like field tests of 10 miles TT or so. I give them a lightweight race bike, or a TT bike, or lightweight wheels, or aero equipment... whatever they say "Oh, if I had 'so and so' I would go faster". And then we look at how the change of equipment affected performance. Most people come out surprised: they think that a bike 5 lbs lighter or lightweight wheels will make them 3 or 4 mph faster, and end up disappointed when this does not happen and all that is gained is like 6 seconds over 10 miles.
Most of what determines speed is the way you ride, how your body works, your power output, your position on the bike, etc - all of which are vastly improved by proper fit and efficient training.
Then yes, after all has been dialed in and the bike fits perfectly, the lightweight wheels and the Ti cassette and the carbon crank might shave you a few seconds at the end of the race. But a few seconds make more of a difference at 35-40mph than at 16-18, so unless you are battling within the top finishers already, a few seconds may not change much.

First things first... you mentioned that the bike 'fits' - so I gather that you already had someone fit the bike to you? If not, that is exactly where you start.
Maybe the frame fits, but if the overall setup is not perfectly right for you, you may be losing power. Overall setup being seat height, sea fore/eaft, stem length/angle, handlebars drop/reach/height, # of spacers, crank length, cleats placement, etc etc. If some of the above are not dialed in, you are actually using energy but some of the energy does not transfer to the pedals and is just lost. Seat/handlebar positioning and cleat positioning are often a big issue - a small change and suddenly your effort seems to pay off in terms of speed.
A good pro fitter will also discuss your positioning and technique with you - and tell you how your position and actions on the bike will affect power output. They may also give you exercises to do off-the-bike to improve strength and flexibility.

Another issue is that, depending on your style of riding, you may or may not have the right gear combinations on your bike. This is usually a subtle change but if you ride variable terrain with flats and hills and mountains and technical descents... well, it may also make a difference. That, we cannot know unless we know what crankset and cassette you use, and how do you ride/on which kind of roads.

My recommendation would be to check the fit first - see if there are shops that offer professional fitting services in your area, ask around for good recommendations, find a good fitter and make an appointment. It could be the easy way to change a few things on your bike and make you comfortable and efficient.

As per training, you mentioned training for 6 months but not how you train. That alone makes a huge difference. You may be working on the bike every day and not see any tangible improvement because you train focusing on an area and measure your improvement on another. For example, if you train for mileage base and measure improvement based on sprint speed - you may not see any change. Why? Because you work on A and test B. It's like teaching students: if you teach them A and test them on B maybe no student will pass. Our body is a student, sort of, and learns what we teach.
So, before you get disappointed about the lack of speed improvement, make sure that you are, in fact, focusing your training to achieve higher speed.
That also extends to your 'off-the-bike' training, i.e. fitness: make sure that your strengthening program is designed to achieve your goals.

One last suggestion - if your plan is to start racing, have you tried looking for a team? It is always better to race with a team as opposed to unattached. Also, teams often have deals with local coaches, so you could get some help for coaching, maybe fitting - and most of all you would get (for free!) the experience of your teammates to help you improve.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

30km/hr is pretty good after only 6 month of riding. it's approx. 20MPH.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that our improvement is not necessarily linear. it tends to be more like staircases. See some quick improvement. Get stuck at that level for a while. Then suddenly show some improvement again. While you are in the plateau, your body is settling into and getting used to the new fitness level.

Just keep riding and once a month or so go for extra hard or longer distance. This will help you get past the plateau.

Again you are doing pretty well.

I've had "slow bikes" where the bike just didn't seem to let me go fast - sometimes it's been the hubs on the wheels, other times it's just been geometry. Stick me on a 75 degree seat angle, and I don't pedal it efficiently or something. Stick me on a 73, and I'm happier. But the reality is that it's only been a couple miles per hour difference between a "slow" bike and a "fast" bike. I am talking completely about road bikes here, I don't expect my other bikes to be fast bikes.

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Originally Posted by alexis_the_tiny

My road bike isn't exactly a go fast bike. Its a Cannondale Optimo from a while ago and weighs possibly in the 9kg range?

I've been mountain biking on and off for 5 years prior to this, but only started training seriously 6 months ago. Since getting the road bike, the speeds have stayed pretty much 24 to 30km/h the whole time, the only time there was a difference was when my friend helped me tweak the fit, then it just took less effort to keep going at 30. There's a race coming up next May that I really want to do and suddenly, I feel like I've wasted 6 months training with nothing to show for it.

Muirenn, I'm not quite sure what's off. I have a sneaky suspicion that 650CC wheels and a 44cm frame while fitting fine, are a touch too small for me. I've managed fine on 48 to 50cm bikes before but took this one anyway because the ladies who owned it before me were about the same build. Which...probably not the best idea...Hmmmm.

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Originally Posted by TxDoc

You may be working on the bike every day and not see any tangible improvement because you train focusing on an area and measure your improvement on another. For example, if you train for mileage base and measure improvement based on sprint speed - you may not see any change. Why? Because you work on A and test B. It's like teaching students: if you teach them A and test them on B maybe no student will pass. Our body is a student, sort of, and learns what we teach.

So, before you get disappointed about the lack of speed improvement, make sure that you are, in fact, focusing your training to achieve higher speed.
That also extends to your 'off-the-bike' training, i.e. fitness: make sure that your strengthening program is designed to achieve your goals.

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Thanks for this reminder - I find myself guilty of this in that I am currently training for endurance/distance and climbing hills but then get frustrated when I can't get past 19.5 mph on flat ground when hammering it.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

Thanks for this reminder - I find myself guilty of this in that I am currently training for endurance/distance and climbing hills but then get frustrated when I can't get past 19.5 mph on flat ground when hammering it.

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...so I try to remember what I'm trying to accomplish. My riding is quite varied - liesurely commutes to work or trail rides with DH; moderate paced NO DROP group rides (which means we don't go faster than the slowest rider); distance riding; short "sprints" for triathlons (lengths of 15-25 miles at "speed"); and this is Colorado, so of course, hills. And this is all in one week :o I've found that in order for me to be a good "all around" rider, it seems that I'm not the best at any particular thing. But I hang tight with the group, and over the course of a ride, I'm right up there in the front because I'm pretty good at all of it. I have been focusing more on climbs and maintaining speed over a longer distance - intervals have helped tremendously with both of these. And I also ride once a week with a couple of kids who are crazy fast - really pushes me and is a nice change from my regular group rides.

As for the bike, it makes a difference to a certain degree. I have three different bikes - one is definately faster than the others. But what I have noticed is that I've seen improvement overall, and I'm faster and stronger on all of them. If you're plateauing and not making any progress at all, as previously mentioned check your training routine.

I hadn't ridden with my DH in a while, and I ride a lot more than he does (like 5 or 6 times a week compared to his twice a month). I had just put slicks on my Cross bike and wanted to try it out (I was told it would make me faster :p) He's never been faster than me, but he can usually hang if I'm not going all out. Well, I left him in the dust and wasn't even trying!!! He was so mad! Of course, he credits the tires ("I thought you were BSing me about tires, blah blah blah...") God forbid it actually be ME that was faster!!!
Commuting gives me a pretty structured route, so it's very obvious and easy for me to tell if I'm improving - I just check my time!

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

30km/hr is pretty good after only 6 month of riding. it's approx. 20MPH.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that our improvement is not necessarily linear. it tends to be more like staircases. See some quick improvement. Get stuck at that level for a while. Then suddenly show some improvement again. While you are in the plateau, your body is settling into and getting used to the new fitness level.

Just keep riding and once a month or so go for extra hard or longer distance. This will help you get past the plateau.

Again you are doing pretty well.

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X2! Actually, if my calculations are correct, it is more like 18.6mph, but still...that is damn speedy, in my book. I would LOVE to average 18mph for an entire ride...but that has yet to happen. I live and ride in a suburban sprawl, with stoplights and stop signs at every corner...which doesn't do much for my average speed, which currently hovers around 15.5mph.

I think you're doing great and I would be super proud of an 18+mph average, if I were you. ;)

TxDoc, WHew! That's long. I'll PM about about it because it might turn out to be an essay on this thread.

Oakleaf, yes, I'm looking for a HRM to start using because I find that I'm always overtraining or undertraining. Nutrition-wise, I'm trying harder to eat well but just to be safe, I've gotten some supplements including this one thing that contains some minerals to help recovery. So far, it seems to be helping muscle recovery.

Right now, training is a little messed up because I'm not sure how else to do speedwork without intervals. I'm just riding as much as I can and taking recovery days when my legs say to take them. I can do 30 consistently for half an hour to an hour if I force myself to focus on it, otherwise, I'll be lolling around at 26 to 28.

Maybe I need a perspective change because 30 doesn't seem very fast hereabouts. The guys I ride with are pretty much average here and they're pulling high 30's to 40's on singlespeeds and mountain bikes. Its sort of a catch-22 thing because I know I go faster if there's someone to draft, but I can't draft anyone if they drop me on the first hill of the ride.

nscrbug, thanks. Sometimes, I find that I'm a bit too hard on myself and don't celebrate what I've accomplished enough. Its so easy to forget that only a mere 10 months ago, I could barely run 2km.

So, I got myself a HRM with a speed and cadence monitor. Started taking an electrolyte supplement (was definitely NOT getting enough nutrients without supplements before). I looked back on my diary and realized I trained best on peanut butter and nutella sandwiches and chocolate milk. In fact, my health took a nosedive when I bumped those off my diet. What the??!! o.O It makes no sense but I'll do whatever worked. Also, found a group that does steady 28km/h rides to do my long saturday rides with. Its such a relief to find people who I can keep pace with and the ride is SO DIFFERENT from riding alone.

I don't have that terrible feeling that this is as good as I'll ever get, so much any more. Now, to get the bike fitted properly and serviced.