Dogs as trainers?

I went out for a sweet and cool 20 mile ride tonight, and finally got chased by 2 dogs. I've been waiting for that to happen...but the scary thing was that the first dog did not bark as he ran up behind me until he was almost at my rear wheel! I found out how fast I can shift and accelerate - faster than I thought!

The second dog came as I was slowing down after the first canine "training session". He behaved more normally though and I heard/say him coming from about .5 acre away so had plenty of time to get out of his territory.

That first one was scary though...

You know how much I hate loose dogs! They're awful, especially the stealth ones. I'm glad you escaped both of them!

I can't even say anything about loose dogs that won't make me sound like an awful person (and I *love* dogs). Grrr....
Glad you were able to escape unscathed. Yeah, I guess they are good for interval training. ;)
I always just turn on my "teacher voice" and scream at them go 'go home.' Usually that works... usually.

I love all dogs except the ones with square heads.
All the bike chasing country dogs I encounter seem to be of this variety.

On my favorite ride there is a road that Tees at a slight up hill stop sign. The road is only about a quarter mile long and I used to stop for a drink at this stop sign but then one day a group of dogs started barking behind the heavily tree lined fence across from the sign. I was with my husband the first time this happened. We started sprinting down the road from a dead stop. He impeded my progress by trying to protect me. We would have been safer with an every-man-for-himself approach.
Well, the pack of square head dogs ran just ahead of us along the fence for about an 8th mile and then just as we were overtaking them one slipped through a hole in the fence. He was hitting the pavement just as we shot past him into safety.

Now I stop at the other end of the short road, drink and reserve my energy for the coming chase. I watch for traffic as I approach the stop sign and hope I don't have to stop for a car. I roll through the stop sign, staying to the middle of the road and if I hear the dog I quickly shift and break into a sprint. It is slightly down hill so that helps. Once the chase ends I hit a nice long (for my area) descent and get a rest before a long (for my area) climb.

The dogs have never made it to the hole in the fence before me since that first encounter. It is so scary because the foliage is so thick you just get a glimpse of them here and there. It is hard to tell where they are along the fence.

The most effective thing I yell at dogs is "Get a job!"

The content reminds me to tinge my voice with contempt, not anxiety or anger - and the dogs respond to my assertion of superiority. I think that's why it works, anyway. ;)

Square head dogs :D

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Originally Posted by MommyBird

I love all dogs except the ones with square heads.
All the bike chasing country dogs I encounter seem to be of this variety.

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That's hilarious!

On a drastically less humorous note: My biggest fear is being chased by a dog and having it get hit by a car as it runs out into the road. I would be seriously scarred for life, square head or otherwise.

I think the square head varieties are an extension of the owners who have that type of dog for whatever mistaken ideals they have. It's usually bad owners, not bad dogs.

There's a lot of square heads around where I live.

Square heads?

If you mean pit bulls and bully breeds, please don't generalize. We have 2 pit bull rescues, and they're among the world's most wonderful dogs. They're far less likely to show human aggression than guarding breeds, and far less likely to chase than a herding breed. Any dog can be a brat if its owners are clueless--and I agree that idiotic owners that let dogs roam free on rural roads are a menace.

If a loose dog catches up to you, spray them with your water bottle, or better, with citronella spray (sprayshield is the standard brand). Citronella spray doesn't hurt their eyes or sting, but it smells bad to them and they'll turn away. Plus, if the bugs get bad, it makes a decent bug spray.

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Originally Posted by tiva

Square heads?

If you mean pit bulls and bully breeds, please don't generalize. We have 2 pit bull rescues, and they're among the world's most wonderful dogs. They're far less likely to show human aggression than guarding breeds, and far less likely to chase than a herding breed. Any dog can be a brat if its owners are clueless--and I agree that idiotic owners that let dogs roam free on rural roads are a menace.

If a loose dog catches up to you, spray them with your water bottle, or better, with citronella spray (sprayshield is the standard brand). Citronella spray doesn't hurt their eyes or sting, but it smells bad to them and they'll turn away. Plus, if the bugs get bad, it makes a decent bug spray.

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It's amazing what a "good" job the media has done to make these wonderful dogs so hated. I fostered a pit bull puppy not long ago and even my father was saying "pit bull!? but they're so dangerous!"

The general public really does fear them, and it's such a horrible shame because, like you say, they are such wonderful dogs. It's the stupid, irresponsible owners who give the breed a bad name.

*meep*

It seems like almost every ride for me now has a dog incident. I am the canine alarmist during group rides.

ETA: Not one of them has been a Pittie.

I'm sure I'll jinx myself by saying this, but I've yet to encounter a loose dog on my bike. Ever.

The statistics for injury and fatalities by dog bite do not look good for Pitt Bull breeds.
All breeds are unpredictable and capable of turning. I never let my guard down when my sweet tempered Jack Russell is around a child.
I am sure there are responsible PB owners but these dogs have physical characteristics that make them more dangerous. They do require extra attention and not all PB owners are capable or responsible. Some are down right criminal in how they care for these animals.
If you were riding or running down the country roads that I do and you saw a snarling square head dog bearing down on you, you would not pause to consider how responsible its owner might be. You would fear for your well being and assume that this animal intends to do you harm.
This is my reality all too often.

I had a whack of statistical data in a long post, but it's a pointless argument because you've already got your mind made up. Which is sad, but c'est la vie.

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Originally Posted by MommyBird

The statistics for injury and fatalities by dog bite do not look good for Pitt Bull breeds. .

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Wrong--check the CDC again. I'm a scientist, and a cursory look at the CDC data actually suggests exactly the opposite. They are underrepresented in the population of dog bites (ie, nearly half the dogs in American shelters are now pit or pit mixes, and less than a third of dog bites are by pit/pit mixes.)

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Originally Posted by MommyBird

All breeds are unpredictable and capable of turning.

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Unpredictable? Perhaps. Dogs are another species, and their behavior can be a mystery to people.

Capable of turning? I disagree. Any dog may bite if provoked enough, and different dogs have different stress thresholds. But few dogs will ever "turn", if by that you mean suddenly, without warning, cause harm to a person.

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Originally Posted by MommyBird

If you were riding or running down the country roads that I do and you saw a snarling square head dog bearing down on you, you would not pause to consider how responsible its owner might be. You would fear for your well being and assume that this animal intends to do you harm.
This is my reality all too often.

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Of course, it's never fun to have any dog chase you. No responsible owner allows her dog to run free or chase bicycles or wildlife. That said, a pit bull (which are small dogs, by the way--a pit bull is about 40 to 50 lbs max and quite thin; few people can actually identify a pit bull) is much less likely to chase or attack people than dogs that were bred for those purposes.

But no biker should be chased by any dog--we all agree on that! It's dangerous for the biker, cars driving by, and the dog. I've never had the energy to call the cops on an owner who lets their dogs chase bikes, but if we all did this, the problem would probably be much, much reduced.

I've said this before - I used to have a pit mix (departed now :(). She was animal aggressive. We should have socialized her better, but didn't realize the problem until it was too late - she was friendly with puppies and with our other dogs that she grew up with. But the point is, that I could - and a couple of times, had to - put my hand in her mouth, with complete safety, to pull her off another dog. The other dogs (never another pit/mix) bit me, you bet. (These were off-leash dogs that approached her when she was at the end of our leash. Not something we could avoid except by never walking her.)

That's a classic pit personality (even though she was a real Heinz 57 and the PB genes were less than half her makeup), and it's what they were originally bred for - to be aggressive with bulls and other dogs, but 100% docile and controllable with humans.

I probably get chased more by herding breeds (Aussie cattle dogs in particular) than by any other dogs. A lab mix followed our club ride for a good two miles a couple of weeks ago.

And no dog should chase anything/anyone on the road, regardless of breed.

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Originally Posted by badger

I had a whack of statistical data in a long post, but it's a pointless argument because you've already got your mind made up. Which is sad, but c'est la vie.

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Badger, I am sure you love your dogs and take good care of them. But unfortunately you do not represent 100% of the PB owners out there. I can find a load of evidence that would not support your view as well. In fact, I did just that before writing my last post. There was even an article about a PB incident in my local paper today.
Like I said above...all dogs are unpredictable...we can never trust any breed 100% of the time. My son had stitches in his face from the neighbors Shih-Tzu.
What I do know is that stats tell me that I would more than likely suffer more damage or even death if I were to be caught by one of the PBs who regularly chase me than the spaniel who came up and licked my leg today.
It is the PB owners who discount the danger or do not care about the danger their dogs pose for others safety that worry me.
It is paramount for ALL dog owners to be mindful of the danger their beloved pets could inflict on a loved one or a stranger at any moment.
Do I believe PBs should be outlawed? Definitely NO.
But I do believe that when someone makes a personal choice that has a heightened potential to bring harm to others they bear an extra measure of responsibility to prevent such harm from occurring.
You probably fit this model but unfortunately there are a large number of people in my neck of the woods who do not.
Because of this, it is in my personal best interest to continue to not like square head dogs.

I had a stealth dog come at me today. I didn't even know he was there until I looked in my rearview mirror. I yelled at him "get a job" all sarcastic like and he stopped running (thanks OakLeaf).
I think the insults work. Kinda like that old Will Ferrell skit on SNL where he's some doctor that says the best way to train your puppy is to be sarcastic and humiliate him. Ha! :p

[QUOTE=tiva;517944]Wrong--check the CDC again. I'm a scientist, and a cursory look at the CDC data actually suggests exactly the opposite. They are underrepresented in the population of dog bites (ie, nearly half the dogs in American shelters are now pit or pit mixes, and less than a third of dog bites are by pit/pit mixes.)


My cursory check of the CDC for fatalities tells quite a different story.

My question is if these are such desirable dogs, why are they so overrepresented in the shelter population?

Shelter numbers are not a good measure for the overall PB population.
The bite stats need to be compared to the non-shelter population to be meaningful.

I am not worried about the ones locked up.

I'm not a scientist. I just facilitate a debate club.

We all have different experiences and opinions. I feel confident in my research and do not feel compelled to change my position.

I have not asked that anyone outlaw a particular breed or euthanize any innocent animals. I just feel it is in my best interest to avoid exposure to PBs. And feel it is my right to not care for that type of dog.

You have every right to hate Jack Russells. I will not be offended.

One thing you should know. As a multiple JRT owner I always advise anyone with small children not to get one. There have been too many high profile bite cases. All four of mine have never bitten but better safe than sorry with the safety of others.

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Originally Posted by MommyBird

You have every right to hate Jack Russells. I will not be offended.

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Yikes. This sentence chills me to the bone.

Your dogs are not accessories.

Dogs aren't poorly trained, they're let down by their people.

I've been bitten by:

• a Pekinese - owned by the neighbor of my grandmother, dang dog bit me after I was invited in the house by her owner

• a German Shepherd - guard dog in the public show barns at a horse show where I was working as an EMT, the dog had already bitten my patient rather severely when she went to put up her tack. She knew the dog and the dog knew her, where I was a stranger to the dog.

Both acts were totally unprovoked on my part other than apparently occupying the wrong space.

As a kid I owned a French Poodle (from Paris no less :rolleyes:, his arrival with us back to the States is another story), that bit a neighbor boy. Said child had it coming, even the Animal Control people said so. But the law was the law, and we had to keep our dog chained up inside his fenced yard for 2 weeks. The boy was jabbing our run-away dog with sticks and pine cones, while holding on to his collar. Adam had enough and bit him.

As for Pit Bulls in shelters.... They're popular among urbanites because bull dogs "look tough", and unfortunately the have been bred to fight. I think it's been said that ounce for ounce Chihuahuas are pretty vicious. If they were as big as Pits, shelters would probably be full of them too.