Saddle - inconsistent discomfort

I have a Brooks B-17, and am noting something odd with it. Sometimes when I ride it there is no discomfort at all. Other times, like last night, I am VERY aware of my girly bits.

No numbness, but there is discomfort that approaches pain in the ...umm... forward part of my girly bits. Then, like what happened at on the Tour de Cure Ride, I can take a break and perhaps there will be no further discomfort for the rest of my ride. This did not work last night...

My assumption that I stated in another thread elsewhere on this forum was that this was likely from breaking in the saddle - but does this sound reasonable? Perhaps I need to try chamiois cream/butter?

It is a little perplexing to me why it isn't consistent, but I need to figure this out as my weekly long rides start increasing this week :D I have 160 miles on my Brooks.

I'm going to take a wild guess and speculate it's your core strength. You start getting tired, your lower back sags in, your pelvis tilts forward, and your soft tissues pay the price. Sometimes you can rearrange yourself and be okay afterwards. Other times you're just too tired.

Does that sound right?

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I'm going to take a wild guess and speculate it's your core strength. You start getting tired, your lower back sags in, your pelvis tilts forward, and your soft tissues pay the price. Sometimes you can rearrange yourself and be okay afterwards. Other times you're just too tired.

Does that sound right?

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This sounds reasonable - but sometimes it is backwards :) At the Tour de Cure last weekend the first 10 miles was very uncomfortable, but the last 15 miles (after I took a break) was fine. Then again, I had someone riding with me those first 10 miles who is a slower rider than I, and I do not think that I was in my usual riding position. After the break I was by myself and picked up speed/cadence.

This does make sense though - and will pay close attention to it tonight when I go for a longer ride. I also had a hard lower-body workout with my trainer right before riding last night so I may have been more tired than I realized - lots and lots of squats last night with some pretty heavy weights. I had not considered that - and while my core strength is improving I am sure it has a long way to go.

Thanks, I will pay attention to this tonight.

Could it be your shorts - does it hurt when you're wearing specific ones, or not when you're in specific ones? I have some that bother me and some that dont, and of the irritating ones, if I move around i might find a "sweet spot" where I'm comfy....just a thought....

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Originally Posted by JennK13

Could it be your shorts - does it hurt when you're wearing specific ones, or not when you're in specific ones? I have some that bother me and some that dont, and of the irritating ones, if I move around i might find a "sweet spot" where I'm comfy....just a thought....

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Good thought, but it doesn't seem to matter. Of course I only have two pair, and both are PI shorts - 1 pair of regular lycra and one pair of baggies. I think the liner on the baggies might be getting too large for me... though I didn't have them on last night.

Am trying to save up for a lovely pair of non-PI bib shorts that TE sells, so far the only chamois I've worn have been PI.

Of course, if I get used to shifting around as much as I have these last couple of rides, I MIGHT be able to eventually lift myself out of the saddle a bit :rolleyes: :o

I know nothing about Brooks saddles.

I used to have problems where sometimes my saddle was uncomfortable and other times it was fine. The difference was in the terrain of the ride -- flat rides were uncomfortable. I figured it was because I slid forward and back more on hilly rides to account for climbing, but for flat rides I was always in the same position.

Then I went for a fit update at the LBS and they lowered my saddle, and now it's so comfortable I don't even think about it. They also put a shorter angled stem on the bike so my handlebars are closer and higher, which was to solve a problem with my neck and shoulders but could also affect my position on the saddle.

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Originally Posted by ny biker

I know nothing about Brooks saddles.

I used to have problems where sometimes my saddle was uncomfortable and other times it was fine. The difference was in the terrain of the ride -- flat rides were uncomfortable. I figured it was because I slid forward and back more on hilly rides to account for climbing, but for flat rides I was always in the same position.

Then I went for a fit update at the LBS and they lowered my saddle, and now it's so comfortable I don't even think about it. They also put a shorter angled stem on the bike so my handlebars are closer and higher, which was to solve a problem with my neck and shoulders but could also affect my position on the saddle.

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This is a good thought - we do know that my saddle is the proper height though - we just went through all of that :)

The more I think about it - and I do tend to over-think things - I do wonder if my shorts might be getting a little big on me and that is starting to cause problems. I've already "undergrown" a larger pair of shorts so I hope it is something else. Shorts are expensive to keep replacing!

I will see what it feels like tonight - I don't work out again until tomorrow so if it doesn't repeat itself then perhaps it was a core and tiredness combination that Oakleaf suggested. My legs aren't sore from all of those squats which I find somewhat amazing as my trainer really poured it on yesterday...

do you use lubrication?

I've noticed that sometimes when climbing up a bunch of hills, I get a little sore. I end up scooching up on the saddle because I'm working so hard. So pay attention to your posture as well.

Sounds silly, but I have to double check to make sure my shorts are all the way pulled up (i.e., the chamois is settled in the right place, up against my skin). Otherwise, the wrong parts of it hit the wrong places. Wonder if that would be part of it? Of course, this does get worse with too large shorts.

Hmm, what you said about going slower and hurting more, and then going faster later and not hurting struck a chord with me. I've noticed that when I ride with some good friends who ride slower, I seem to sit a little differently, and put more weight on the downward motion of my feet, so they go numb more quickly than usual. And I lean differently, so my arms get tired. When I ride a bit faster, I tend to sit a little differently, and everything's more comfortable.

Maybe you were sitting heavier to go slowly?

What is the difference between a Brooks 17 and the 17S?

As mentioned in an earlier thread under "new riders" I started having inconsistent discomfort with my Brooks last week, but last night and tonight it was nothing but consistent. Tonight I tried lubrication, applied it directly the the chamois. There was so much tingling from the cream that I honestly can't say what the saddle felt like for the first 10 miles...

For the SECOND 10 miles, however, the discomfort was very apparent and it focused on my girly bits - more toward the front but by the end of the ride all of my soft tissues were complaining. I couldn't figure out why this was suddenly a problem, it is getting worse the longer I ride.

Then it dawned on me, there were so many fitting issues with this bike that prior to the reconfiguration of my LHT, I literally could not ride it longer than 5 miles at a time. So of course I didn't notice any problems because I was having a lot more pain in other places.

I also realized that my saddle has this stamped on it:

"Brooks
Ladies Standard
B17S"

If this is a standard B-17, should that 'S' be there? Do I have the saddle I think I do?

My Bontrager feels better than this did tonight...but perhaps the Brooks is still breaking in?

Tingling? What kind of chamois cream are you using? I can't say that I'ver ever experienced that! I also don't bother with putting it on the chamois; I apply it directly and, at least personally, get better results.

Doesn't the "S" designation on the Brooks refer to the women's version?

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Originally Posted by indysteel

Tingling? What kind of chamois cream are you using? I can't say that I'ver ever experienced that! I also don't bother with putting it on the chamois; I apply it directly and, at least personally, get better results.

Doesn't the "S" designation on the Brooks refer to the women's version?

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I got a couple of samples from DZ Nuts and didn't realize that both samples were not of their women's version (dznuts bliss), but one was of their men's versions (dz nuts). By the time I realized this is was too late... I had heard that the men's version tingled but that doesn't quite describe it :eek: I hadn't used cream of any kind before so was experimenting.

That could be, I just have the understanding that they have two versions of the B-17 for women. That doesn't mean that I am correct though ;)

If nothing else I will take it back to Nebo (probably Sunday). Jonathan did put the saddle back in the original position that my first fitter had it in - but THAT was when I had road bars... My body position is quite different now, but I don't know if that explains the discomfort.

Yes, the "B17S" is the short-nosed 'ladies version'. I used to have that B17S saddle, then changed to the regular B17 and liked it way better because i could move it 1 1/2" further back on its rails than the S model, thus helping my center of gravity problem on my other bike.
Eventually I wound up getting the B68 (not the B68S) because the B17 was not quite wide enough in back for my very wide sit bones. The B68 fits me perfectly.

Can only speak for myself, but when i don't use any lube that's when I get that kind of discomfort up front. I use simple hypo-allergenic hand cream. Cheap and not greasy. Works for me!

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Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl

Yes, the "B17S" is the short-nosed 'ladies version'. I used to have that B17S saddle, then changed to the regular B17 and liked it way better because i could move it 1 1/2" further back on its rails than the S model, thus helping my center of gravity problem on my other bike.
Eventually I wound up getting the B68 (not the B68S) because the B17 was not quite wide enough in back for my very wide sit bones. The B68 fits me perfectly.

Can only speak for myself, but when i don't use any lube that's when I get that kind of discomfort up front. I use simple hypo-allergenic hand cream. Cheap and not greasy. Works for me!

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Thanks for this BleeckerSt Girl, so I was incorrect - that is good to know. I will hold off on going back to the fitter and try applying the lube more directly next time and see if that helps. I think that I have a container of pure shea butter around here somewhere... I am also going to remeasure my sit-bones just in case. I've had that question before whether my original measurements are correct.

I also don't have the saddle I thought I had, but perhaps I can make this work.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I'm going to take a wild guess and speculate it's your core strength. You start getting tired, your lower back sags in, your pelvis tilts forward, and your soft tissues pay the price. Sometimes you can rearrange yourself and be okay afterwards. Other times you're just too tired.

Does that sound right?

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that would be my guess, too. Saddles don't magically fit, then magically not fit, then moments later magically fit again. But posture/core can be good, then bad, then moments later good again.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

that would be my guess, too. Saddles don't magically fit, then magically not fit, then moments later magically fit again. But posture/core can be good, then bad, then moments later good again.

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Thanks for your take on this. My last two rides was uncomfortable the entire time - but from what others have said from their experience I probably need to start using lubrication - I have not done that prior to yesterday.

My girly bits are sore today - my labia to be specific... however the cream I used tingled a LOT, so it could be that rather than my saddle, depending on what might be in the cream.

Tomorrow I have a Traffic Skills 101 class, and if there is a chance I will ask the instructor about my posture to see if I am missing something here. I need to get this worked out sooner rather than later, thanks to all!

I'd try tilting your saddle down about 1/16 to 1/8 inch or so. Just a bit to ease off the pressure.

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Originally Posted by withm

I'd try tilting your saddle down about 1/16 to 1/8 inch or so. Just a bit to ease off the pressure.

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I will try this - I have a 30 mile ride planned Sunday so hope this helps :) I also have a bike traffic skills class all day tomorrow and am going flask the instructor if he sees anything wrong with my riding position.

I had problems loosening the bolt on my saddle, so visited my fitter after my Traffic Skills class this afternoon (much less riding because of the class but there was still noticeable discomfort). After discussing the problem, I am going to see what it is like after he altered the tilt just a hair (between .5 and 1 degree). He said this might cause more hand problems because of weight distribution, but it is worth the experiment. If it doesn't help I may test another kind of saddle - we will see. I am hoping this works though.

My 30 miles tomorrow will be a good test :) Now if the thunderstorms will just stay away...

Catrin,
Are you moving your hands around while you ride? I started having problems at the end of last year, and then I realized I was riding with my hands more forward on the hoods than I used to. I had to tweak the nose down a hair to compensate. Of course, this didn't feel right this spring when my core was weak from the winter, but I built back into it.

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Originally Posted by TrekTheKaty

Catrin,
Are you moving your hands around while you ride? I started having problems at the end of last year, and then I realized I was riding with my hands more forward on the hoods than I used to. I had to tweak the nose down a hair to compensate. Of course, this didn't feel right this spring when my core was weak from the winter, but I built back into it.

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Yes, though more the right hand than the left. I am signaling with my left, drinking from my camelbak and so forth. I do shift the right hand on the bars - and of course I now have riser bars instead of road bars.

Update from my ride this afternoon after the saddle adjustment yesterday. I was quite aware of my girly bits for the entire ride, however it didn't start to approach painful until the last 2 miles. It is possible that last bit was a core issue, it was HOT and I was getting tired.

I am wondering if I simply need a cut-out saddle. I did try Knots test before getting the Brooks and though I had passed it... My Trek's Bontrager saddle has a cut-out, and frankly I've not had any problems with it - but 20 miles is the furthest I have ridden that bike.

So I guess more experimentation is needed - I did use lube today and that may have helped during those first 21 miles... I just can't afford another saddle right now so am hoping that I can make this work enough that I can deal with it until I can.

When you move your hands around the handlebars, you shift your weight.

Just a thought about why the pain might be intermittent.

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Originally Posted by TrekTheKaty

When you move your hands around the handlebars, you shift your weight.

Just a thought about why the pain might be intermittent.

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Hmmm, as the discomfort increases I am shifting around on the saddle more frequently. I know that the liner of the shorts I wore today is a little more loose than it once was, it has the blue PI chamois. I imagine that it is possible that it is getting a little large for me that the chamois could be getting a little bunched up and making matters worse as I scoot around on the saddle?

I AM thankful that I got further today than the other day - the slight tilt change of the saddle was helpful I think. I may consider asking him to tilt it a little further - but I don't want to go too far...

Will also try an remember to be conscious of my body position in case this is a core strength issue as well as some have suggested. If that is the root of the problem, then it won't matter what saddle I have on my bike for the problem will remain.