Maiden Voyage/Ride-Pic

Fantastic maiden ride on my yet-to-be-named LHT!

Good news - The ride was much smoother than my Trek 7.6 - which is saying something, I could certainly tell a difference in the short distance I rode (see bad news). The LHT is MUCH lighter than Stella, both have to be lifted pretty high up on the rack so there is no doubt. The LHT is FAR more responsive :eek: this was unexpected, but will adjust, I am sure.

Shifting? This is a "fixee" until I get tired of being in the same gear :o I think that once my fit/brake lever/pain thing is corrected that it will be much easier to move my hands. I do like the riding position, which was a little concern for me as I had not used road bars before.

Bad News :( Could only ride about 2 miles until my hands were screaming with pain. It is almost an hour later and there is still tenderness in my hands. Who would have thought my hands too small for levers meant for small hands? I cannot blame the bike for that. I figure it this way, I got $200 off on the MRSP of the bike - so even if I do have to pay a little to get this fixed, then I am not going to complain at all.

Fantastic ride though, pain aside. It felt great to be on a smaller bike, as you can tell from the smile on my face below. The saddle does need to go up, and it will. Bit by bit... At least I have another bike to ride until the fit/bar/levers issue is settled.

Can you post a picture of you actually riding the bike, taken from the side? I bet you were gripping your bars for dear life, elbows straight, shoulders up to your ears. That's not surprising since you're a new rider on a new bike with new features, but it's not a habit you'll want to develop.

Relax your shoulders, bend your elbows, and be light on your hands. In order to do this, you'll need to use your core to hold you up. If you don't already have a strong core, you may want to consider adding some strengthening exercises (like Pilates) to your routine.

Congrats on the bike!

Are you wearing gloves? The picture doesn't show it.

Catrin, I had the same issue with hand pain and started using Pearl Izumi Gel-Vents that made all the difference in the world!

Over time, I learned better posture and now I've gone on centuries without any gloves at all.

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Originally Posted by tulip

Relax your shoulders, bend your elbows, and be light on your hands. In order to do this, you'll need to use your core to hold you up. If you don't already have a strong core, you may want to consider adding some strengthening exercises (like Pilates) to your routine.

Congrats on the bike!

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If I can find someone to take the picture then I will do so :) Part of the problem is that I can't "relax" my hands on the hoods - it is a stretch just to get two fingers partially over the levers. Now, that doesn't mean that there may not be posture issues, and I am sure there are, but I can't relax my hands. My back and neck seemed fine, which is good.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Silver

Catrin, I had the same issue with hand pain and started using Pearl Izumi Gel-Vents that made all the difference in the world!

Over time, I learned better posture and now I've gone on centuries without any gloves at all.

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I do have gloves, the above pic was taken at home after taking my bike off of the rack. I have PI Gel gloves, shown below. Are these the same gloves?

Thanks for the tips! If I can get a sideways picture taken then I will.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

Bad News :( Could only ride about 2 miles until my hands were screaming with pain. It is almost an hour later and there is still tenderness in my hands. Who would have thought my hands too small for levers meant for small hands?
Fantastic ride though, pain aside. .

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Um. That's not normal. I've had really loooong rides. 20 or more miles where my hands would go numb from bad fitting, hand clenching, not switching hand position, etc, but never only 2 miles. I hope that they can dial the bike in to fit you. Tenderness in your hands - that lingers - doesn't sound normal either. Those brake levers look like they're installed a little high to me. That could be part of your discomfort.

One bike shop sized me completely wrong and I bought a bike one size too small for me. Short distances were fine - but long distances were torture. I never went back to that shop. They supposedly have years of experience too. :rolleyes: My current shop let me trade in that bike a while back - towards a new and different bike. I will go to them from now on. They fitted me just right on my beloved (____) *I won't say it, because I gush about it a lot and I sound like a corporate shill. *

Anyhow, best of luck to you Catrin. I hope all works out. The bike is lovely.

First - you are using arms and shoulder muscles in new ways, so some soreness is not unusual. Nervousness and anxiety may be causing you to tense up, and maintain a death grip on the handlebars. Relaxing your hands, arms, and shoulders will help a lot.

It looks like the reach might be a little long. And the bike looks awfully short in the photo. Your seat could probably be raised quite a bit, and that will change how your arms and shoulders fit the handlebars.

Most people ride with hands on the hoods, with only occasional forays down to the drops. 2nd-3td fingers restong bit not gripping, the brake levers, but think along the lines of "shaking hands with the hoods." That should give you the correct position. You don't need to keep fingers on the brakes all the time, but be able to slide into position when slowing, or if a stop is anticipated. It will become second nature eventually.

And finally, you may need to slide the seat forward a little provided it still keeps your "knee over pedal" position reasonably close.

But, first you need to get the seat position - height, and fore/aft locked in. Then address the reach and handlebar issues. You may need a shorter stem on the handlebars. Your shop where you bought the bike should swap out the stem at no charge if you need a change.

If you try to work out handlebar adjustments before the seat height - well you'll just have to do it all over again when you raise the seat. I don't think you are doing yourself any favors by keeping the seat so low You will get used to a higher seat, and in the long run a more comfortable position, a lot faster than you think, especially when all your parts aren't hurting any more.

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Originally Posted by moderncyclista

Um. That's not normal. I've had really loooong rides. 20 or more miles where my hands would go numb from bad fitting, hand clenching, not switching hand position, etc, but never only 2 miles. I hope that they can dial the bike in to fit you. Tenderness in your hands - that lingers - doesn't sound normal either. Those brake levers look like they're installed a little high to me. That could be part of your discomfort.

One bike shop sized me completely wrong and I bought a bike one size too small for me. Short distances were fine - but long distances were torture. I never went back to that shop. They supposedly have years of experience too. :rolleyes: My current shop let me trade in that bike a while back - towards a new and different bike. I will go to them from now on. They fitted me just right on my beloved (____) *I won't say it, because I gush about it a lot and I sound like a corporate shill. *

Anyhow, best of luck to you Catrin. I hope all works out. The bike is lovely.

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Thanks for your thoughts on this. I do not think the bike sized incorrectly - I actually went to two different LBS to get sized for this bike without telling them that someone else had suggested a specific size. Outside of my hands I was comfortable this morning - but two miles isn't a very long ride...

Should I be able to get more than two fingers over the levers? Is this normal? It would be helpful to know that, thanks!

The saddle has already been positioned fore/aft, I am the one who lowered it. I marked where it should be though and will put it back and see what difference that makes. I never dreamed that might be causing part of the issue. I am so used to keeping a couple of fingers lightly on the brake levers of my Trek that I never thought about just leaving them on the hoods outside of a need for stopping.

It is true that the LHT is a very different style - and while I like that style very much - it is different :)

I don't have anything to add as far as fit...

but it's a testament to how much you love riding that you thought the ride was "fantastic" in spite of the hand pain! Congrats on the new bike and hope you get the hands sorted soon.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I don't have anything to add as far as fit...

but it's a testament to how much you love riding that you thought the ride was "fantastic" in spite of the hand pain! Congrats on the new bike and hope you get the hands sorted soon.

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I am sure we can work something out :)

I took another look at the pic I posted. My neighbor took the pic and as he is rather taller than I am, I think the camera angle makes it look like the bike is smaller than it is. The TT length is just a smidgen shorter than my Trek (which is too long).

I brake with two fingers, I think. I'll have to pay more attention tomorrow. But I never have all my fingers on the brakes.

Congratulations on your maiden voyage! You'll figure out the handlebar/brake thing. And don't worry if you and drop handlebars can never be BFF; there are LOTS of options available to you. Take a look at the photos of different sorts of set ups at the Surly LHT Owners Facebook page. Again, so happy for you!

I've had a tremendous amount of hand pain with my new(ish) bike, so I'll share what I learned from trying any number of things. Hand pain can be a function of a number of variables: the bars and how they are positions, the hoods and how they are positioned, stem length and rise, and saddle position both height and fore/aft position.

I'd start with getting your saddle positioned correctly. Not only will that maximize your power on the bike, it will hopefully get your weight properly balanced over the bike. You ideally want the majority of your weight in the rear of the bike, such that you are not bearing too much of your weight in the your upper body. Not only is this more comfortable, it also makes your bike handle better.

I would echo the advice that you raise your saddle to where your shop originally placed it. Ideally, you want the greatest amount of extension that your hamstring and knee can handle.

As far as fore/aft. Most fitters will tell you that knee-over-pedal-spindle is just a rough guide. I'm a bit farther back on my saddle than KOPS--by a couple of centimeters if memory serves. There's a limit with my current set up of how much more setback I can get. I'm as far back the saddle rails as I can go and, if memory serves, I already have a seatpost with a fair amount of set back.

Getting your stem length and rise, along with bar position, is in my experience more trial and error than anything. At wits' end last year with my new bike. I went to a fitter that is an expert in biomechanics. We went through a process during the fitting where he had me pedal with my hands behind my back and then, while still pedaling, I was instructed to reach for my bars. He watched as I did so and more or less eyeballed where my hands were gravitating to. From there, he would reposition the bars and adjustable stem and start again.

Sadly, that expert fitting didn't relieve my hand pain. Because the original fork I choose for my bike turned out to be overly stiff, we just recently changed it. I noticed a big difference in my hand pain over smooth roads versus bumpy bad roads. I really haven't been able to figure out if it's going to help. We're otherwise at a bit of a loss. This was a custom bike. :(

So, Catrin, all I can say is that it often takes a while to dial things in. I will say that with my first bike, I had a fitting at Nebo Ridge, and Jonathan got me set up extremely well. I hit the ground running thanks to him. I will second the advice to work some pilates or yoga into your routine in order to build core strength, too.

IndySteel - thanks for your take on Nebo Ridge. I've already decided to visit Johnathan for a full fitting but they want me to get 200 miles on my bike before doing that...

I hear everyone about getting my saddle back up where it belongs - it is just a block that I have - that I must get over. The seat on my Trek gets higher every week - and it is about where it should be. My personal trainer has worked in a lot of core work into my workouts (he is an very active/avid mountain biker). I can't spring more for Pilates or Yoga classes, but will talk with my trainer about extra things I can do to work on core strength.

You do not need a Pilates class unless you have special physical limitations. Joseph Pilates designed his classic/basic mat work so that it could be done anywhere. In his day, all you needed was a towel and enough room to spread out, length and width wise. Today we have the advantage of a much cozier yoga mat.
Just get a book or video and make sure it specifies that it is the "Classic" or "Basic" Mat Work and you should only get the JP designed exercises and not all the yoga/fusion/modern moves.

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Originally Posted by Catrin

Bad News :( Could only ride about 2 miles until my hands were screaming with pain. It is almost an hour later and there is still tenderness in my hands. Who would have thought my hands too small for levers meant for small hands? I cannot blame the bike for that. I figure it this way, I got $200 off on the MRSP of the bike - so even if I do have to pay a little to get this fixed, then I am not going to complain at all.

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As I found out the hard way (and with a bit of trial and error), there's a lot more to getting drop bars set up "right" than there is with flat bars.. the tilt/angle of the bars themselves, the shape of the bars, the drop, the reach, the position of the brake levers, the angle in/out of the brake levers (I like mine angled in *just* a bit), and it can get kind of complicated/finicky, but I think a majority of the problem you are having right now is really just due to the angle your brake levers are mounted. It might be "right" according to surly but my guess is that it's forcing your hands into a position that they probably don't want to be in. There may also be some other underlying fit issues that have you putting too much stress on your hands/wrists which may not help, but probably wouldn't cause a significant issue after only 2 miles - you'd probably notice more general fit related issues after at least 5-10 miles... so this seems like it may be different, and fairly localized. But at the same time each piece is part of a bigger puzzle and it's hard to solve just part of it alone... because other stuff can be contributing.

It may even be that a different shape or width bar is what you need... it can get kind of complicated because there are more variable involved. There really is no one size fits all with road bars... everyone is different and has different preferences. It's worth trying to find what will work best for you.

200 miles seems a long time to suffer before having a fit done, honestly, if there are fairly big issues that need to be fixed right now... if I were you I would take it back to the shop that built it up for you, and explain the issues you're having with your hands and the reach from the drops - I do think it's work taking the tape off and having the shop tweak them for you so that they're comfortable riding on the hoods *and* you can reach them from the drops. If you can't reach them from the drops right now that should be a big enough reason to have them moved now rather than later. You might even ride around without bar tape for a few days or a week to get a feel for it and make sure it's right for you (with gloves you might not even miss the tape much.. my mixte bars were "naked" for a week or so while I was deciding where my levers were supposed to be. You could even have cross levers mounted while you're doing this if you wanted.

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Originally Posted by sarahspins

... But at the same time each piece is part of a bigger puzzle and it's hard to solve just part of it alone... because other stuff can be contributing.

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Thanks for your take on this. I've been talking to my LBS since the first day when I brought it home and put it on the trainer. It was obvious even then that there was a problem, and I do not think it is simply posture - though that is surely part of it. The fitter at the LBS where I bought it also thinks that I should be able to reach the levers from the drops - so he is already thinking about what needs to be done - I will be taking my bike there today or tomorrow. Sadly he is only part-time right now, and overbooked with fittings...

At least my saddle height on both bikes are now the same :)

UPDATE: Am dropping my bike off at the LBS that built it for the fitter to look at tomorrow. He has really odd hours right now, and I've taken today off work to take care of some things so it works. We will still need to meet, of course, but he wants to confirm that Surly provided the right parts before we proceed.

My fitter is off on Mondays, but I heard from him and am dropping my LHT off at the LBS today for him to look at tomorrow before we meet. I took today off to take care of some business so it works well. Hopefully it won't take us too long to get the hand problem taken care of.

Oh yes, while 2 miles is hardly a test of the new Brooks saddle - it did not seem hard to me at all - indeed I didn't notice it. Hopefully that will be repeated when I can take a longer ride :)

Beautiful bike, so glad you're enjoying it! And I'm jealous of your warm weather :)

Good luck, Catrin.

Can I ask where on your hands it hurts? Your fingers? The meat of your palm? Are you experiencing any residual numbness after you're done riding?

I normally agree with Jonathan that you should get about a number of miles on your bike before a full fitting, but that assumes that you are not in actual pain in the meantime. My hands have, unfortunately, not been the same since last year. In an effort to figure out a good set-up and in a foolish belief that I could overcome the pain, I did some long-term damage to my hands by continuing to ride the bike. I share that with you not to scare you, but to caution you against pushing it if the bike doesn't feel good.

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Originally Posted by indysteel

Good luck, Catrin.

Can I ask where on your hands it hurts? Your fingers? The meat of your palm? Are you experiencing any residual numbness after you're done riding?

I normally agree with Jonathan that you should get about a number of miles on your bike before a full fitting, but that assumes that you are not in actual pain in the meantime. My hands have, unfortunately, not been the same since last year. In an effort to figure out a good set-up and in a foolish belief that I could overcome the pain, I did some long-term damage to my hands by continuing to ride the bike. I share that with you not to scare you, but to caution you against pushing it if the bike doesn't feel good.

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The worst pain is in the meat of my palm between the thumb and forefinger - not quite sure what to call that - and it extends to the base of my thumbs on the inside of my palm. My LHT is currently back at the LBS while they confirm that the correct parts were shipped with it - it sounds like they may not have included the proper levers...but will know more tomorrow.

I hear you on being stubborn about overcoming pain - which I also tend to do. I do have a very light touch of arthritis in my hands already so am trying to be smart about this. If the current fitter can't fix things - then I will call Johnathan when I have his fee saved and explain the situation to him. As much as I love the bike, it won't do me or it any good to try and ride it under the current setup. If I have to move to mountain bars and trigger shifters to take care of this then I will...but that isn't my first choice :)

catrin: Right here on TE, the PI Gel Vent:
http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodPI_8587.html

Note the difference in padding compared to yours.

Remember, you want your frame to support your weight, not your soft tissue.

Totally off topic here, but I like your new name, Mr. Bloom! :D
Glad you're still around!!

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Originally Posted by Mr. Bloom

catrin: Right here on TE, the PI Gel Vent:
http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodPI_8587.html

Note the difference in padding compared to yours.

Remember, you want your frame to support your weight, not your soft tissue.

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Thanks for the link - I wasn't sure if we were talking about the same gloves. I think once we get the fit of my levers/bar correct that will go a long ways to taking care of the problem. I did focus on keeping my weight back on my saddle rather than the bars (I did think of that) - but of course with that too-large stretch for my hands it is hard to say what else might have been involved. There may, or may not, have been numbness - my hands were hurting so badly that I really could not say.

Thanks again - and I like your new name :)

I love your photo, Catrin, you look sooo happy! Beautiful bike too.

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Originally Posted by lph

I love your photo, Catrin, you look sooo happy! Beautiful bike too.

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As painful as my hands were, I loved the bike! I posted the following in another thread, but just to make it easy here is what I learned from my LBS:

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I am happy to report that apparently Surly included not only the incorrect levers, but the incorrect bars with my LHT build! (happy in that it is an easy fix). My fitter, who is a very tall/large man, said that such large levers would give even him problems! He was not surprised to hear that my hands were cramping at all. So he is contacting Surly to have them ship the correct bars and levers.

That doesn't mean that I won't have to focus on posture, but I knew something else had to be going on - the pain came too fast and too strong.
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edited - I misunderstood what I was told - the bars that Surly sent were indeed the correct, compact bars. It turns out that those bars are still a little large for me, so my LBS is replacing them with a slightly smaller set of bars - going to 38cm bars. There were two different issues and I had combined them :)

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Originally Posted by Mr. Bloom

catrin: Right here on TE, the PI Gel Vent:
http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodPI_8587.html

Note the difference in padding compared to yours.

Remember, you want your frame to support your weight, not your soft tissue.

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I've ordered these - thanks for the tip! They are a little expensive, but seem to be a good idea. Now I just have to wait, with impatience, to get my bike back!

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Originally Posted by Catrin

I've ordered these - thanks for the tip! They are a little expensive, but seem to be a good idea. Now I just have to wait, with impatience, to get my bike back!

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Yes they are expensive...and sometimes I've found them difficult to get. While fit is the first priority, these will likely help as well!