Looking to start really "Mountaining" :)

I've been on my bikes now for over two years. Started out with a used Schwinn MTB that I picked up 'cause I had no idea what I needed and just wanted to get back on a bike. It's big and heavy. Over a year ago I graduated to a Specialized Sequoia roadie - which I love. I just ordered shoes and clipless pedals for it. I still use the MTB when the rail trail is soft in bad weather, etc. and I used it earlier this summer to "commute" from the car repair shop because the road shoulders where I live were too rough for the roadie. I'm thinking of putting slicks and a "trunk" on that one and making it a commuter/shopper.

So now, though I still enjoy them, I'm getting a little bored with just the rail-trails and am wondering about starting something resembling actual "mountain" biking.

Any suggestions about hardtail vs full-suspension, etc? Price range for me tops out at about $1400. I want Disc brakes, 'cause the existing one has V-brakes and they stink in the wet, and I know where I would be going is going to be wet and sloppy most of the year.
Beyond that, I'm not sure how much bike I need. I won't be racing, but I don't want to have to upgrade right away either!(I've already bought 2 bikes in 2 years) I can't believe I am even considering a third bike - a few years ago when you ladies all talked about having a "stable" I thought you were crazy! :D Now I'm starting to "get it" :D

basic thoughts;
1 in your price range, you will get a much nicer, lighter, well componented bike as a hard tail over a full suspension.

2. Fit, fit, fit, fit fit. as you know I'm not a big fan of WSD but go with what fits you well.

I'd look at Konas and Giants, first but that's my preference.

irulan

I agree with Irulan.

You could get a pretty nice hardtail at that price or a basic FS. I would go for the hardtail. I'm in MI and personally don't feel there is that big of a need for FS, plus I like to feel the trail.

For brands, it's all about fit. Go to a bunch of lbs that carry different brands and test ride them all. See which you feel most comfortable on

Hard tails are faster than full suspension. Full suspension is probably safer because more shock is absorbed through rough terrain which gives you a better sence of control. I climb better on a full suspension if it isn't a smooth trail. overall I prefer a full suspension.

For the dough go with a hardtail.
But first...
Think about the type of terrain on the trails around you. Here in Mo everything is easily doable on a hardtail. A full suspension is definitely more comfortable on our rocky rooty terrain but our relatively short, sharp uphills are best on a hardtail unless you have one of the upper-end full suspensions that all but eliminate pedal bob. Personally the hardtail has suited me fine all these years, even on the different terrain of other states such as CO, UT, NC, etc.
You may choose to wait and save for a good full suspension.
Talk to not just one, but several different shops about what would best serve your purpose and budget and then test as many of those bikes as you can. Kona's been mentioned, also Specialized, Trek, Gary Fischer, Raleigh and I'm sure many others. Fit fit fit, as someone already mentioned.
As for wet and sloppy conditions, I don't know about your area but we stay off muddy trails-they would soon be ruined were we to ride on them. You may not have the types of erosion issues we have around here, though.
Best of luck finding your mountain bike and welcome to the world of dirt! :)

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Originally Posted by biker chick

Hard tails are faster than full suspension. Full suspension is probably safer because more shock is absorbed through rough terrain which gives you a better sence of control. I climb better on a full suspension if it isn't a smooth trail. overall I prefer a full suspension.

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Ahh... but that control is illusion. On our Utah trip this year I watched a couple of pretty new riders never get out of their saddles on downhills because of the suspension. Tumbles waiting to happen because of where their weight was.

I actually miss riding my zero suspension old Rockhopper sometimes. Not having suspension really forces you to develop good skills. Plus my arms always looked so buff when I got done. :D

I like the lightness of front suspension only. Sometimes I have to push my bike or carry it and pushing the extra weight of the full suspensions we rented in Utah was no fun.

V.

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Originally Posted by Veronica

Ahh... but that control is illusion. On our Utah trip this year I watched a couple of pretty new riders never get out of their saddles on downhills because of the suspension. Tumbles waiting to happen because of where their weight was.
V.

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yep, totally agree. Sounds like a severe case of FS Sofa Butt Syndrome.

"it's the rider, not the bike".

The best suspension in the world won't save you if you don't have the skills. I see way too many folks use the fs excuse of more suspension to not learn bike handling skills.

~I.

interesting that you are talking about getting out the saddle on downhill.... went on another group MTB ride sunday (much nicer weather than the rain and cold of last time!) anyways.... as i was slowly coming down a hill.... a couple of the experienced guys were giving me pointers as they went by... including telling me to get out of the seat! one of them also suggested lowering my seat for the downhill part.... i did, indeed, help!

i'm learning! slowly but surely! :p

p.s. i have a hardtail

In Brian Lopez's book Mastering Mountain Bike Skills, p. 5, he writes," cross-country trail bike with 4 inches front and rear travel. I ride this bike most often...lots of hard climbs and fast technical descents... rocks, deep ruts, and rad, bermed turns. " I am sure an expert as himself gets out of the saddle even on a full suspension. On p. 2-3 he talks about hardtail or full suspension. "Hardtals...perform better in two particular conditions (1) cross country riding on smooth trails and (2) dirt jumping and bikecross on smooth courses. The lighter, more stiffer bikes transmit more power to the ground...In almost all other off road situations, full suspension is superior. You can ride faster and on rougher terrain with more comfort and more control than with a hardtail."

Someone shoot his editor for letting "more stiffer" get published! :eek:

Anyway. I ride a hardtail, but I'd always get off the saddle going downhill - hanging off the back just makes it that much more fun. :D

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Originally Posted by biker chick

In Brian Lopez's book Mastering Mountain Bike Skills, p. 5, he writes," cross-country trail bike with 4 inches front and rear travel. I ride this bike most often...lots of hard climbs and fast technical descents... rocks, deep ruts, and rad, bermed turns. " I am sure an expert as himself gets out of the saddle even on a full suspension. On p. 2-3 he talks about hardtail or full suspension. "Hardtals...perform better in two particular conditions (1) cross country riding on smooth trails and (2) dirt jumping and bikecross on smooth courses. The lighter, more stiffer bikes transmit more power to the ground...In almost all other off road situations, full suspension is superior. You can ride faster and on rougher terrain with more comfort and more control than with a hardtail."

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Whichever kind of bike you choose, you will be a better technical rider if you get off the saddle. And, as V pointed out, much less likely to tumble. A FS can really help smooth out a rough trail, but it will be even smoother still when you are out of the saddle and using your body in a dynamic fashion. When you just sit on the FS and let it do all the work, ( sofa butt) it's still a pretty rough ride, and less forgiving of technical errors.

You'll need to compare the two for yourself.

Great values for a full suspension can be had for your price range. In fact Jamis (bike of the year two out of the last three years) has several high quality full suspensions in your price range. Other brands offer similar quality and that price.

To review what "owners" have to say go to www.mtbr.com

Biker Chick hit it right on.

I personally ride a full suspension and, let me assure you, I get out of the saddle and have rock solid glutes. No "SOFA butts" here. Some of my riding friends still hold to the idea the hardtails are lighter and faster but I'd suggest you check out what the pro's are riding. Brian Lopes and the Luna Chicks to name a few.

I've found the control of the bike so much better, I ride longer, harder, and faster. Pedal bob, on full suspension bikes have virtually been eliminated through technology. The increased weight (2 to 3 pounds) of the bike is negligable.

Maybe your local bike shop (LBS) would let you test ride both a hardtail and a full suspension and let you compare.

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Originally Posted by biker chick

In Brian Lopez's book Mastering Mountain Bike Skills, p. 5, he writes...

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Well of course he is an expert, he has expert level skills.

But the original question was from someone who is looking to get into more serious mountain biking not an expert.

My concern with a person new to mountain biking is that FS does not seem to encourage development of skills. That concern is based on personal observation of new riders who were on full suspension bikes.

Veronica

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Originally Posted by Veronica

Well of course he is an expert, he has expert level skills.

But the original question was from someone who is looking to get into more serious mountain biking not an expert.

My concern with a person new to mountain biking is that FS does not seem to encourage development of skills. That concern is based on personal observation of new riders who were on full suspension bikes.

Veronica

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what she said, V. says is much more succintly than I managed to with my elusive/incoherent comment about sofa butt...( which is a veiled reference to static, non dymanic riding)

Doctorfrau states her budget tops out at $1400. You can bet Lopes is not riding a $1400 bike. The big difference between a $1400 hardtail and a $1400 full suspension can be anywhere from 6-8 pounds of extra bike weight, with the FS being the heavier bike at that prices level. In addition, you will get a significantly better component package on a hardtail at that price range.

Irulan.

And there you have it Doctorfrau, the eternal debate between hardtail and full suspension.

Again, read the reviews and all the product guides you can get your hands on. The manufacturers will provide particulars on each bike including the type riding it's best suited for. Geometry, components, and even size and weight. Opinions are nice, even helpful, but research will guide you to the right choice. Don't compromise on the disc brakes in whatever frame you choose. If you do ride in wet conditions (hopefully not on muddy trails as it tends to hurt them) you'll not regret having the discs. Especially if you do find yourself in the mud, V-brakes promote a cluster of yuck that you'd have to clean it out with a piece of tree. Careful, they work well. Too much front brake and you'll be doing a "supergirl."

Also, I found the Times and Egg-beaters clipless pedals shed mud and yuck much better than the SPDs.

cheers--oh I almost forgot, keep your butt up and back on the down hills. :eek:

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Originally Posted by New Mexico MTB'

And there you have it Doctorfrau, the eternal debate between hardtail and full suspension.

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It's not a debate over which is better system. Irulan rides a FS Kona. It's a question of what is best for a person new to mountain biking.

Veronica

I'm sort of a newbie to mtn biking. I got a Haro hardtail, aluminum frame, some LX parts on it. It was fine for what I do. Then I got a Gunnar Rockhound steel frame on ebay. My bike-mechanic BF moved all the parts off the Haro onto the Gunnar. The ride on the Gunnar is a huge difference. Maybe it's the geometry (these are both xs frame sizes) or the steel vs aluminum. The Gunnar climbs and decends so much better than the Haro, though I'm still a chicken.

My BF recommended the hardtail. He has a Klein hardtail (he is jealous of my Gunnar :p ) (He wants a Gunnar now). He thinks a full suspension would be more maintainance.

But a while back, before the Haro, I did try a Jamis Dakar full suspension bike and I liked it a lot.