old dogs, when is it time?

My dog Nala, Aussie shepard/border collie, turned 15 in January, has been on a down hill slide. In January she was put on heart meds for her mummer, and at least those symptoms have been getting better (breathing easier, minimal coughing). But lately she's been off her feed. I had her to the vet last week, and she did blood work, results were that Nala seems to be having some kidney problems, so Azodyl was added to her daily med list. Dr. F told me to add some ricotta cheese to the chicken/rice combo I'd been feeding her, which last week she seemed to like, mixed with a bit of her dry kibble. Last few days she's been picking out the kibble and dropping it on the floor :rolleyes:, and only eating some of the goodies. So today I didn't bother to mix in any kibble, and only gave her the chicken/rice/ricotta combo - of which she ate a small bit, then went to lay down. She's still ambulatory, although her one or more of her legs will give out, and she has trouble with steps - old arthritic hips. I suppose I'll see what, if anything she's eaten when I get home.

My other dog died of Cushing's disease, so was ravenous to the bitter end. This picky eating, not eating very much that Nala is doing is driving me crazy. At least she likes the treats that I hide her meds in.

(((((((Beth))))))) :(:(

I won't say "you'll know," because that platitude turned out to be true for only one of the three dogs for whom we had to make this painful decision. But I will say, "whenever you decide, will be close enough to be best for Nala." You love her enough to sacrifice for her, that's plain, and that gives rightness to whatever and whenever you decide.

It's an awful balancing process. Not eating is a sign, yes, but you still have to figure the chances that she'll come back from it, and whether she has enough enjoyment and quality in other aspects of her life to make it worth fighting to bring her appetite back. :(

Take good care. I'm thinking about you.

It really is a balance. You know your dog better than I do. Just recently with Big Kitty, not eating was the final sign for him. But, he was a chow hound for his entire life; he never missed a meal before even when he was sick. He also had many other signs going on; so two days eating only a little broth was enought to know that it was time. He was not enjoying his life anymore and it was apparent.

Give your dog a chance to see if he will start eating again; and if he is happy.

It is never easy; hugs to you and your loved dog.

spoke

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I won't say "you'll know," because that platitude turned out to be true for only one of the three dogs for whom we had to make this painful decision.

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I have to agree with this. To this day, I still wonder if my timing was right with my beloved Tango.

My feelings were that when the quality of life deteriorates enough that the animal is no longer themselves, it's probably time. This is, of course, assuming there is no unmanageable pain involved for the pet.

It's a lousy choice. Worst decision I've ever had to make. I'm sorry Beth, I feel for you. Just know that you've given Nala a wonderful life and she loves you for that no matter what you end up deciding.

It's hard to decide when it's time. In my experience, sometimes, things are clear-cut, other times, not so much. In any case, you've provided a life filled with love, and whatever you decide will probably be right. All best wishes to you at this difficult time.

Pam

I was so very lucky that all three of my pets really did let me know when. The dogs both weighed more than me, so when they couldn't walk anymore, well, it was time to do something. One just laid down and never got up again. It was still the most heart-wrenching experience to say "It's time" out loud.

Even if they don't tell you, you will know it's the right time - when their quality of life is gone, they're in pain, or will be in pain shortly. Take care of yourself, in whatever you decide.

(((((Beth and Nala))))))

*HUGS*

I have nothing to add other than I'm terribly sorry. When my Aussie mix died last year my parents had been worried for 2 weeks that they were about to have to make that decision (I'd left her with them when I moved out for her happiness due to her age and affection for their other dogs). Then she got better for a week, but died in her sleep. Ultimately I'm glad she died after having been relatively happy about life for a few days rather than miserably declining, though I doubt very seriously I could have made "the decision" when she seemed to be improving.

There is no "wrong" answer, especially when you have a pet that's lived a long, full, happy life. Nala will help tell you when, and it's ok to let what you are feeling/can deal with best enter into the equation either.

I had a different experience altogether when I put my life long buddy down. She was old and I knew that it was time. She was wetting in the house because she couldn't get up fast enough to make it out the dog door. She was blind. She was lumpy. She did nothing other than sleep. She was eating very little.
When I took her in I was relieved for her and happy to be able to do this for her. It was a bittersweet but a good decision that I have never looked back on. I knew that if I kept her alive it was for my benefit and not hers.
One piece of advice - when vets put some dogs to sleep the shot can cause brief, physical pain accompanied by yelping. If I remember correctly, this happens if the medicine goes anywhere other than the bloodstream. I could not bear that. My vet gave my little doxie an anesthetic just like he would if he were performing surgery. After that, he administered the shot that put her to sleep.
Sorry that you are facing this decision. ((HUG))

Oh Beth! I am shortly behind you in this tough decision. I have a 13 year old boxer who is currently doing great. Though, he has seizures occasionally and I know that at some point, he will begin his decline. When I look at him, I see him through his whole life. He is my buddy and my best friend. He recently decided he had eaten enough dry kibbles during his life, and promptly stopped eating. I added wet food and he's back to gobbling down his feed. He has gained weight and is back to his spunky self. I can totally empathize with you. I think Oak gave you phenomenal advice. You may know *when*, you may not know. But you love your friend, and you have his best interest in your heart, so whenever you arrive at your decision, it will be the right one. We do the best we can for our animals while they are in our care, and that is the best we can do. Somehow, I think they know this. When I look into the eyes of my furry friends, I know they understand our intentions, and somehow that makes it better for me. I'll be thinking of you...

((((((Beth + Nala))))))

I always like to ensure they live a happy and full life. My policy is that once their life is no longer enjoyable, or the pain/suffering outweighs the positive, it's time. I know that pets, especially dogs, are viewed largely as companions for humans so I know it's extremely difficult to let go sometimes. I hope someone will show me the same kindness and not let me suffer in my old age :P

We had to let our poor American Eskimo go when we came home from work and found her crying in her own mess. She could no longer get up and she had cancerous lumps on her neck and face. It was time.

We cleaned her up, gave her a huge meal of her favorite foods (another Cushing's pup who was ravenous to the end), had her family and friends come over to say good bye (two of our kids are out of the house, and the neighbors knew her, too), then took her to the vet. It was hard, but it was the right thing to do.

We had 2 dogs, Tosh, a springer/cocker mix was 14 1/2 and had to put her down 2 weeks ago, she got sick a month before and was in kidney failure, given medicine, and then couldn't walk, stand up, it was time. The other dog, Kelly, a lab mix is 16 1/2, doesn't have the best appetitite, give her table food, whatever she will eat, some days she eats good, other not so good, she's on medication because of incontinence, she doesn't hear or eye very well, but she's comfortable, still excited to see me come home from work. Sometimes stumbles and falls. But she seems happy and she's doing OK. When her quality of life is not there, then it will be time. I think most of the time you will know when its time. You will see it in their eyes. Its a hard decision to make.

Our thoughts are with you, Beth.

For me, I decided when my dog no longer had any joy in eating or going outside, two things that had always been total joy for him. In retrospect, I think I was a week or two slower than I should have been, but I'm sure he'd forgive me.

Take care of yourself, too.

My heart goes out to you, Beth, and to Nala.

Last summer, we had to have our 13-year-old Siberian Husky put to sleep. She was nearly blind and deaf and had arthritis so severe that one day she hopped off of our back deck and then couldn't straighten out her hind legs. The vet x-rayed her and she really had no joint space left in either of her hips. I know that it was her time, but it was still an awful thing to decide.

Sometime after that, I read an article about making that decision. I don't recall where I found it or I'd attach the link, but it explained that dogs don't understand that they can take medicine and feel better, they just understand pushing on through so that's what they do. It also said that dogs aren't afraid of death - they don't know what it is. So I guess if a dog is no longer "pushing through," he doesn't want to go on, and he won't hate or resent you for putting him out of his misery- or not.

I hope that doesn't sound too matter-of-fact. It was a good article and I know I'm not doing it justice.--

You and Nala have had a lot of good years together. She loves you for that I'm sure. And I hope she gets to feeling better. I don't know your dog, and they're all different, but maybe the appetite loss is temporary.

Deb

Hi.
Sorry to hear about your old dog. One way to think about this is, you want her last days to be as good as they can. Only you know what is "good" for her.
Ultimately, I decided to let my last dog go when she was stricken with something probably curable with cage rest. I believed that having her spend two weeks crated up to return to a very frail state wasn't the right way to treat my old friend. Two years and one dog later, I am still sad and still convinced I did the right thing.

(((Beth)))

I'm so sorry. Our family has been there, too. It really is a quality of life thing. When you do take her in, consider being there with her when the vet administers the shot. We all went in with our Boo (she was nine and had an antibiotic-resistant bacterial infection that, after three years, was just worse and worse and left her in constant pain) and just petted her and loved her and told her it would be okay as the medicine took effect. It was important for us to be there together as a family and face it together.

It's really hard to know when it's time if your dog isn't in actual pain. Ours was, and it was affecting her quality of life in a way we loved her too much to let her suffer through.

Good luck making your decision.

Roxy

Beth - It's the most difficult decision (been there twice ... actually, this Sunday marks one year that we let Maud go...).
As others have said, when Nala's quality of life is poor and the bad days outnumber the good ones, it's time. In my experience, my girls have let me know---a look in their eyes, telling me that they have to be somewhere else and I'm keeping them from that destination. I know, sounds weird but it happened with both Agnes and Maud.
I agree w/the poster who said that dogs aren't afraid of death. It's just part of the journey to them and they know that they will see us again, in a better place. No more pain, no more suffering, just surrounded by all the things that make them happy. One of the most selfless gifts we can give our dogs is a peaceful, dignified passage, and if you're there with them, they will feel your love.
Sending you and Nala big hugs... I know you are spoiling her rotten right now.

Hugs to you both. My thoughts are with all you who have posted here with their own experience. I'm looking at my own little guy laying at my feet and wiping a tear from my eye. I know someday this decision will come for me. I've had to make it before and it's not an easy one.

Thanks everyone.

My biggest concern is that Nala has been off her feed. Things she used to like, she barely nibbles at.

Well.... yesterday evening I brought home a roast chicken from the grocery store and she was wiggling her eyebrows. Now most of her life she ate kibble. She was not fed "people" food, and I fussed at her to "GET OUT of the kitchen!" But hey, she's old, and interested in food, so I forgave her for being underfoot in the kitchen. So I pulled out some cooked brown rice, cooked a sweet potato, chopped some of the roast chicken onto a plate, and she ate - trying to pick out the chicken. So when there was rice and potato left over, I added more chicken, cut up even smaller, and mixed it all together. She cleaned her plate. :D Meanwhile I had some chicken thighs poaching on the stove for future meals....

So this morning, I fixed her a small plate of chopped chicken thighs (in the broth), brown rice, sweet potatoes, with blobs of ricotta cheese on the side - total volumn of about 1 cup. And she ate all of it. So hopefully she'll hold it down (she had been vomiting last week, which was part of the reason we went to the vet), and this evening I'll fix her another plate.

Her life is pretty good, if she'll just eat. She lets me know when she needs to go out, and hasn't had any accidents in the house. My biggest concern was that she wasn't eating, or eating and then throwing up.

I've left a bowl of dry kibble out, just to see if she nibbles on it, but I'm not counting on it. I know she isn't a morning dog any more, and our colder weather isn't helping very much.

awww, she sounds like such a sweetie. Best of luck to you both at this time, Beth.

Beth I just wanted to add my support. Like others here, we went through this last year with our 13 year old Springer, Jeremiah. To say it is not easy is an enormous understatement. It is truly a horrendous decision to have to make. You are a good doggie mom (I can tell from your posts), and I know that whatever happens you will do right by Nala.

My thoughts are with you.

Beth,

Sending out happy thoughts to you and Nala. It sounds like the chicken, rice, and sweet potato combo was a winner!

gosh, I know so many of us on here have been where you are. Big huge hugs to you, it's never ever easy saying goodbye to your beloved friends.

I also went through what you're going through a year and a half ago with my dog. He was definitely going downhill, and the last 6 months of his life wasn't so fun for him. But I couldn't take him to the vet for him to be put down. I just couldn't do it, so the choice was made for me when he had a stroke and couldn't move anymore. As horrible as that was and as difficult that was (hell, I'm weepy eyed right now thinking about it!) that needed to happen for the decision to be made. I guess in that sense he did let me know it was time, but a small part of me does wonder if I didn't leave it a bit too long and that his quality of life wasn't the best in the end.

I'd say the best thing you can do, looking at things in retrospect, is to spoil her and make sure that her quality of life is the best it can be. When the time comes, you'll be so very heartbroken, but at least you know you never denied her anything in the end.

(((((((Beth))))))) :(

My heart so goes out to you and of course Nala.

Massive hugs from across the pond to both of you.


Clock

Nala eats better than I do! Sounds like she's perking up (fingers crossed).

(((Beth and Nala)))

Sometimes you know and others you have to follow your heart. Many times is day to day. For me it was when the bad days outnumbered the good ones. Be thankful that you can put an end to any suffering and indignity. I may have erred with Shadow and put him down early but I was out of my mind with concern that if I waited too long he would not be able to breathe. (He had a tumor on his snout that was closing off his airway). But in the end I did that for him to be sure that he would not have pain or distress.

A couple of thoughts - one if Nala is suffering from kidney disease her stomach may be upset. Ask your vet about giving her some cimitidine (tagament). Second, did your vet discussing using a diet specifically formulated for kidney disease - some are highly palatable and all are designed to be kidney friendly. Third, how are Nala's teeth? Sometimes animals will drop food due to dental disease. Finally, has there been any discussion about giving Nala sub-q fluids?

Hope this helps. Hang in there Beth and give Nala a big hug from myself and my furry family.

Beth - I remember you did Sub-Q on your cat, would it help Nala? Maggie was very good for four months after starting the sub-q. Maggie slipped very quickly into a neurological problem after months of sub-q. Our vet was so kind to nicely help us make the decision because even with it being obvious it was still hard. Maggie didn't have much of an appetite for months, she wanted Heidi's food not her bland diet. The vet had her on tagament, because he felt her stomach might be upset. ((Hugs to you and Nala))

Nala seems to be drinking plenty of water, and doesn't seem to be dehydrated on the skin-pinch test. She's on to me on the chicken-flavored pill pockets that her Azodryl goes in, and I just bought another package of the chicken, so this afternoon I'll stop by the store and exchange it for beef flavor. Once I get her started, she does eat her meals of chicken/rice/sweet potatoes/ricotta cheese about 1 cup total volumn. Vet checked her teeth, and didn't notice anything of concern.

Her sudden rapid declince is the hardest thing to watch.

If she lives through the next 24 hours, we'll be making the final trip to the vet tomorrow. She's pretty weak today, does't want to eat or drink, can barely walk. Normally an affectionate dog - has "french kissed" every vet who has ever taken care of her - she doesn't respond back when being petted, just blinks. So she's on her bed my bedroom, with me while I sew.

Go in peace my dear, join your sister.

Oh Beth, I'm so sorry :( You must be so sad right now. Wishing you courage and calm to make this final decision for her with peace.

((((((((Beth and Nala))))))))

I'm so sorry.

((((dear sweet Nala))))

((((Beth))))

((((((Beth and Nala)))))))))

I'm so sorry:(

((((((beth and nala)))))))

((((beth & nala)))

Poor doggie :(

{{{Beth and Nala}}}

I'm sorry, Beth.