back problems

I am having a problem with the right side only of my lower back after about 45 miles or so. It seems to be fatigue related. I have had my bike fitted and have messed around with the saddle, stem, bars, and such. The bike guy says that my bike is just a tiny bit to big for me, so I am a little stretched out on it, even with the stem as short as it can go...I have heard this before...usually followed by, "but only a little bit...you will probably be ok." The saddle can go a bit further forward, but then it jacks up my leg position in relation to the pedals. I love, love, love my bike (Colnago C50, full Campy Chorus 11) and really don't want to start at ground zero again with a new one, but I also ride with an aggressive bunch, and I need to be able to hammer for 100 miles without killing my back. It is on the right side only (weirdly enough, and yes, I have checked my saddle to make sure it is even, and checked my hand position, etc.) right about where the waistband of my shorts would lie (I wear bibs usually).
It is worse at the moment because I am out of shape, when I am in shape it really doesn't kick in till mile 45. Right now it is starting at 30 miles. It doesn't bother me at any other time. Anyone? Anyone?

I could write you an entire encyclopedia, but I have to go to work (where I deal with spines all day and run the injured cyclist program)

But maybe that's good, cuz I tend to blather on too much... :rolleyes:

Suffice it to say I have a pretty good idea what is going on, and I'll work on it when I get home. :D Fear not! You don't have to ditch your bike!

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

I could write you an entire encyclopedia, but I have to go to work (where I deal with spines all day and run the injured cyclist program)

But maybe that's good, cuz I tend to blather on too much... :rolleyes:

Suffice it to say I have a pretty good idea what is going on, and I'll work on it when I get home. :D Fear not! You don't have to ditch your bike!

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AWESOME!!!! Thank you!

Knott knows best, but here's my guess: one leg longer than the other (fixed with shim at cleat on shorter leg--works for me), very tight muscle at hip/butt--Knott knows the name of it for sure. I had that and through stretching, massage and PT found relief. Work on that core, too. Pilates helps my back like nothing else.

I totally agree with Tulip, it could be a leg length issue or a muscle group that is tighter on one side than the other. BUT, I'm sure Knot will figure out the issue and give some great advice/suggestions.

From a fitting perspective, I would assume that along with a short stem that your fitters also have you riding a stem with an upright position? By that I mean a stem with something other than 90 or a zero degree rise? A shorter stem with a rise will effectively feel shorter than the same length with a zero degree rise.... but I'm sure you know that already.

At any rate, good luck and I'm anxious to hear Knots suggestions:p

I dunno if this will help but I had a similar issue on those kind of rides. Being in that position for so long was actually causing a shortening of my ab muscles and then off the bike they would cause a pulling in my lower back. Solution was to lay down over a large exercise ball (back on the ball) and stretch out the ab muscles really good after, before and whenever the back starts to twinge. That has done wonders for me. Mine got so bad I could barely walk at times and this simple stretch did the trick, go figure.

I'm also waiting for Knotted's answer. I hurt my back a few years ago. I currently stretch twice a day and go to the chiropractor once a month. I was going to suggest some yoga, stretching and strengthening for the area. My pelvis is twisted and tilted and my lower back is the first to give out on long rides. However, overall we believe cycling is helping with core strength and loosening my hamstrings, so I just have to take it slow while I build each summer. Good luck.

There can be a lot of factors going on here and like Knott, I could blather on for hours but I am at work and have a patient coming in right away.

I agree with the idea of a muscle imbalance and core weakness. Hip stretches can help a lot and working on cycling specific core strengthening exercises are great.

Another way to take out a bit of the reach in your fit is to go to a narrower handlebar. Most women are fit best on a 38 or 40cm handlebar but there are ways to measure what would work best for you.

Knott will probably get back to this before I do, but I'll try to post some stretches and exercises you might want to try later.

Hate to say it but I'm in the same profession you are and my doctor told me every cop he sees has lower back issues thanks to that super bulky gun belt. I would see a doctor and get a fresh MRI or at least x-rays. I have a fractured L-3 from 1985 and my right side hurts like hell on the bike after a while. Same pain I get if I'm in the car too long at work. Lots of stretching and walking and I also adjusted a leg length discrepancy with lemond wedges.

Yeah, and since you work in uniform, do you carry a wallet in your back pocket?

Karen

What you're describing sounds very similar to the back pain I suffered with last season. It was on my right side only, seems to be located in the muscles and begins after about an hour in the saddle. Getting off the bike and stretching the back and hip flexors would relieve it for a few miles, but it always came back. I'd like to hear some ideas too.

It has been a hellacious couple of days. Sorry I'm late on the reply.

To be brief, here is what I think is going on:
you have discogenic back pain, mediated by muscular control.

Basically one segment of your back is taking all the strain as others are slacking off, so one disc is smooshing out of shape more than the others. That one is complaining and referring pain out along the iliac crest (which is classic). The fact that you feel less pain when in better shape/practice indicates this isn't a defect, just a dysfunction. When your core is in better form, the strain is spread across all segments and you have less pain.

What causes the strain is a whole 'nother ball game, but I wouldn't give up the bike.

First I'd work on core: like CRAZY. (and yes, wearing the gear belt can really enhance the tendency of one segment to take all the strain.) Prone planks, side planks, and good posture at all times. I make my police patients do planks while wearing their gear belts. They love that... :rolleyes:

If you can't get comfortable on the bike with huge core strengthening (like holding each plank position for a full minute 3 times in a row easily) then I'd look into leg length discrepency and bike fit and other funky things that really need a personal touch with a PT who can actually see your body and how it behaves.

If you disc is badly smooshed (like WindingRoad's) then bending your segments into extension can really help, whatever the cause. Lying backwards over a ball, bending backwards in standing, doing yoga "Cobra", all help smoosh discs back into normal shape.

Try core; try bending backwards before, during, and after riding; and try seeing a sports med PT (preferably one who has worked with cops and with cyclists).

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

It has been a hellacious couple of days. Sorry I'm late on the reply.

To be brief, here is what I think is going on:
you have discogenic back pain, mediated by muscular control.

Basically one segment of your back is taking all the strain as others are slacking off, so one disc is smooshing out of shape more than the others. That one is complaining and referring pain out along the iliac crest (which is classic). The fact that you feel less pain when in better shape/practice indicates this isn't a defect, just a dysfunction. When your core is in better form, the strain is spread across all segments and you have less pain.

What causes the strain is a whole 'nother ball game, but I wouldn't give up the bike.

First I'd work on core: like CRAZY. (and yes, wearing the gear belt can really enhance the tendency of one segment to take all the strain.) Prone planks, side planks, and good posture at all times. I make my police patients do planks while wearing their gear belts. They love that... :rolleyes:

If you can't get comfortable on the bike with huge core strengthening (like holding each plank position for a full minute 3 times in a row easily) then I'd look into leg length discrepency and bike fit and other funky things that really need a personal touch with a PT who can actually see your body and how it behaves.

If you disc is badly smooshed (like WindingRoad's) then bending your segments into extension can really help, whatever the cause. Lying backwards over a ball, bending backwards in standing, doing yoga "Cobra", all help smoosh discs back into normal shape.

Try core; try bending backwards before, during, and after riding; and try seeing a sports med PT (preferably one who has worked with cops and with cyclists).

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I know this sounds a little cliche, but I would see a doc before trying all of this on your own. Exercises like these are likely what they'll tell you to try but I wouldn't risk it. I spent 3 years in physical and occupational therapy... had surgery...and am looking at another surgery this summer...and I'm in my early 20's. I've heard all about 'smooshed' discs, bulging discs, torn discs, slipped vertebrae, etc. I just wouldn't risk damaging what you have before seeing a professional.

Anybody know about the Egoscue method? I have the book Pain Free which has many stretches to help with pain issues. The author Pete Egoscue is an exercise therapist and has had some amazing results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

It has been a hellacious couple of days. Sorry I'm late on the reply.

To be brief, here is what I think is going on:
you have discogenic back pain, mediated by muscular control.

Basically one segment of your back is taking all the strain as others are slacking off, so one disc is smooshing out of shape more than the others. That one is complaining and referring pain out along the iliac crest (which is classic). The fact that you feel less pain when in better shape/practice indicates this isn't a defect, just a dysfunction. When your core is in better form, the strain is spread across all segments and you have less pain.

What causes the strain is a whole 'nother ball game, but I wouldn't give up the bike.

First I'd work on core: like CRAZY. (and yes, wearing the gear belt can really enhance the tendency of one segment to take all the strain.) Prone planks, side planks, and good posture at all times. I make my police patients do planks while wearing their gear belts. They love that... :rolleyes:

If you can't get comfortable on the bike with huge core strengthening (like holding each plank position for a full minute 3 times in a row easily) then I'd look into leg length discrepency and bike fit and other funky things that really need a personal touch with a PT who can actually see your body and how it behaves.

If you disc is badly smooshed (like WindingRoad's) then bending your segments into extension can really help, whatever the cause. Lying backwards over a ball, bending backwards in standing, doing yoga "Cobra", all help smoosh discs back into normal shape.

Try core; try bending backwards before, during, and after riding; and try seeing a sports med PT (preferably one who has worked with cops and with cyclists).

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I should have mentioned that I am pretty fit...I'm a personal trainer and love core stuff (I hold the plank record of 3 minutes with my 30 lbs of equipment on....I can do it for 5 without vest, jacket, and belt). I do lots of squats and stuff on the Bosu ball as well. Core strength is my...uh...strength, I guess. My belt is certainly an issue that could be contributing...because I am small, there is not much room on it, some stuff HAS to go in some places, so stuff like my handcuffs and my extra flashlight hang in the small room left. My cuffs do press into my back. I hadn't thought of leg length. In addition, I had a stroke in 2007...I have no obvious residual problems, but maybe I am just a little off?
Thanks for such a great answer. I am going to try the stretches and see if I can get someone to look at my leg length on the bike.

Yeah, you've got the core thing down. If the pain is after 30 miles now and after 45 miles during riding season, then muscle is helping... but now you need someone looking at you. If the pain is only on the bike, they need to look at you on the bike, too.

Have you ever noticed a big leg length difference? (everybody has at least a little difference, it just matters if your body compensates for it or not) Is one pantleg usually shorter than the other, does one leg of your running shorts bunch up into your groin while the other hangs smooth? There are shims and drop pedals to address leg length at the foot, and even subtle things like Brooks or AnAtomica saddles that will give under one side of the pelvis to even out the legs.

Usually there are several things contributing to a problem. If you can eliminate a couple of the more obvious ones, the body juggles the remaining ones without complaint.

It may be that your bike is just too big, but I'm looking at the 30 mile vs. 45 mile onsets and thinking there's got to be a way to eliminate a couple other contributors instead of eliminating the bike itself.

:o 3 minutes! I just worked up to 1 minute and I was proud of myself. Gotta go work on my plank............

It took 2 visits (2 mri's) to the best ortho guy in town, a chiropractor and a physical therapist (and a LOT of research on my own) to make me comfortable on the bike. Don't give up. You may never find the exact cause, but you will find a way to cope (for me, ibuprofen and lots of ice after longer rides--and the realization I may never keep up with my DH).

To add to what Knotted said, I technically don't have a leg length difference, but my pelvis is twisted and not level. This results in the whole leg and hamstring shortening--we think. It's that whole which came first, the chicken or the egg............

Good luck :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Yeah, you've got the core thing down. If the pain is after 30 miles now and after 45 miles during riding season, then muscle is helping... but now you need someone looking at you. If the pain is only on the bike, they need to look at you on the bike, too.

Have you ever noticed a big leg length difference? (everybody has at least a little difference, it just matters if your body compensates for it or not) Is one pantleg usually shorter than the other, does one leg of your running shorts bunch up into your groin while the other hangs smooth? There are shims and drop pedals to address leg length at the foot, and even subtle things like Brooks or AnAtomica saddles that will give under one side of the pelvis to even out the legs.

Usually there are several things contributing to a problem. If you can eliminate a couple of the more obvious ones, the body juggles the remaining ones without complaint.

It may be that your bike is just too big, but I'm looking at the 30 mile vs. 45 mile onsets and thinking there's got to be a way to eliminate a couple other contributors instead of eliminating the bike itself.

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I have never NOTICED a big difference. But it is possible...after the stroke I felt like I was walking on a curb. I don't limp any more, but it is possible I still compensate like a leg is shorter without knowing it??