do you ever go through red lights?

today I got yelled at by a pedestrian who told me it was a red light. It was a blocked intersection where the traffic is only one way - the direction I was going. There's no traffic going in any other direction, and for all intents and purposes, if there was no light there, it would be no different than a straight road.

For me to stop, it would be kind of pointless. There's no crossing traffic and 90% of the time no pedestrian traffic. I wasn't in any way going to hit him or inconvenience him in any way, but he felt I should stop anyways because as he pointed out, it was a red light.

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another curious thing I noticed is if I'm going straight at an intersection where cars are turning left (with you facing them), they tend to completely ignore you even if I have the right of way. Anyone else experience/notice this? it's quite dangerous.

Around here if you want to be respected like a vehicle, with the rights of a vehicle, and travel on surfaces used by vehicles.... you follow the same rules as the vehicles.

If I wouldn't run the red light or stop sign in my car, I won't run it on my bike either.

Do you mean a T-intersection where you are crossing the top of the T and there is no way a car could hit you even if your light is red?

I actually think you should at least slow down and look carefully for pedestrians or bikes who might be crossing in front of you as you pass the stopped cars, especially if there is something for them to get to on the other side, like a store or something. You have to really know the traffic and layout at the intersection in order to determine if it really is safe not to stop.

There is an entrance to a bike trail by my house that is a the top of a T intersection and there is also a heavily used bike lane running along the top of the T. When I'm riding up the T to the entrance, I always have to watch out for overzealous road riders who don't feel the need to stop or even look when the light is red and my light is green. And they KNOW that the entrance is there and that hundreds of walkers, runners, and bikes must cross in front of them, but they don't always pay attention. It's an accident waiting to happen.

Legally, bicyclists are supposed to follow the rules of the road and stop for redlights and stop signs.

I pretty much always stop for red lights. If it's a big enough intersection to warrant a light & not just a stop sign, I'll stop and make sure there's noone coming.

I usually stop for stop signs, Stop signs can sometimes be optional if it's a 4 way stop and I've got good visibility coming to the stop to see that there are no cars coming in any of the directions. I will still at least slow down and make it obvious that I'm looking around. It does suck losing the momentum when you have to stop.

I stop for red lights but if my bike can't actuate them, I cross the street red light or not. Of course I look both ways,proceed with caution etc...
But some lights just won't change without a ton of steel actuating them!
I never "BLOW" through red lights.

Missouri just got a "dead red law" for cyclists & motorcyclists. If the light doesn't change, after 3 minutes we can proceed when it is safe. 3 minutes is a long wait. Usually a car comes up before 3 minutes passes and triggers the actuator. There's only a few intersections that I haven't figured out how to trigger the actuator with my bike.

I stop at all lights and signs. I'm setting an example for other cyclists, improving the reputation of all cyclists, and protecting my hide legally. If I'm ever in a wreck, a history of prudent or imprudent behavior can help or hurt my case. Maybe no one is watching--or maybe someone is.

Oh--and also protecting my hide literally. But I've found the safety card doesn't fly. No one stops at every red light because it is safe. Everyone always has a situation where "it doesn't matter"!

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Originally Posted by badger

another curious thing I noticed is if I'm going straight at an intersection where cars are turning left (with you facing them), they tend to completely ignore you even if I have the right of way. Anyone else experience/notice this? it's quite dangerous.

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There is an intersection near my house. One day a left-turner waited for the oncoming traffic to clear and then started to go. His wife (me) screamed "See the cyclist!" and he lurched to a stop. The cyclist was Bike Shop Bob. I spoke to Bob later and he was awfully glad I'd been there to scream!

It was night, but Bob has good lights and reflective gear. But he had been riding awfully far to the right. The oncoming traffic had actually been passing him in the intersection. That's partly why my husband hadn't seen him. (I don't want to assign blame though. I am the first to point out, unwisely yet frequently, that my husband is not the most observant driver.)

I was at the same intersection another night (also with good lights like Bob). I generally ride pretty close to the middle of the road as I approach an intersection. I was behind a line of cars in this spot. I was in exactly the same situation Bob had been.

No one tried to pass me as we went through the intersection. The left turner on the other side, in the same place my husband had been in, started to go when the line of cars had passed, but saw me right away and waited.

I told Bob all about this later. He agreed that he hugs the curb, and said he'll take the lane when he goes through that intersection.

let me state that I in no way bomb through red lights with no regard to pedestrians or oncoming traffic. The intersection in question is indeed a T intersection, but the intersecting section of the T is blocked off so cars only go in one direction, the way I was going. It's essentially a one way street. And let me state again that I was not in any position to harm the pedestrian and there was nobody else around.

Regardless if you're a cyclist or a motorist, one should be vigilant and observant of their surroundings.

I have a reputation to uphold, so yes, I stop at all red lights, and stop signs too. Even those way out in the boonies.

Locally, we've had three cyclists killed here in the past nine months, and every one of those fellows ran a stop sign and was hit by a truck. Of the many complaints that i receive from or hear about from the general public, nearly every one (>90%) deal with either running stop signs & red lights, or riding in a swarm filling all the traffic lanes in a given direction, and quite often some of the other direction's half, too. Cyclists who are diligent about following the rules of the road are good ambassadors for cyclists everywhere.

Tom
LCI #1853M

Well, yes, stopping at a T intersection just for the sake of stopping does feel silly as it does with a four way stop were you can clearly see that no one is coming. I think the informed choice is made at each specific occurrence and each person's comfort level and focus while riding is different. I like to err on the conservative side because in a quick instant like that I know that I am capable of choosing the wrong course of action, like forgetting to consider that a pedestrian might enter the equation. It only takes someone being at the wrong place at the wrong time to cause an accident.

But I have done the same thing as you on occasion and run that red light.

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Originally Posted by badger

let me state that I in no way bomb through red lights with no regard to pedestrians or oncoming traffic. The intersection in question is indeed a T intersection, but the intersecting section of the T is blocked off so cars only go in one direction, the way I was going. It's essentially a one way street. And let me state again that I was not in any position to harm the pedestrian and there was nobody else around.

Regardless if you're a cyclist or a motorist, one should be vigilant and observant of their surroundings.

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There are several T intersections with 1 way streets in downtown Vancouver. I'm a pretty cautious cyclist so I do slow down at such intersections to a rolling stop and will look around, before continuing forward, if it is a red light. If it's thick traffic, no I just stop and wait.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Around here if you want to be respected like a vehicle, with the rights of a vehicle, and travel on surfaces used by vehicles.... you follow the same rules as the vehicles.

If I wouldn't run the red light or stop sign in my car, I won't run it on my bike either.

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Yup. I agree.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Around here if you want to be respected like a vehicle, with the rights of a vehicle, and travel on surfaces used by vehicles.... you follow the same rules as the vehicles.

If I wouldn't run the red light or stop sign in my car, I won't run it on my bike either.

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I agree, with one caveat - to accord you respect as a vehicle, someone has to be around to see it. I sometimes encounter 4-way intersections where all crossing traffic has passed, and there are are no other vehicles travelling in my direction. Then I'll admit to "making like a pedestrian" and riding over even on a red light (walking on a red light is permitted here). But I make a point out of coming to a full stop first and checking, for the benefit of any stray pedestrians I might not have seen. I could wheel my bike over and be in full accordance of the law, but that feels a little unnecessary when I'm already starting from a full stop.

Very very seldom - but still once in a while - I'll consider riding on a red when there are other vehicles around. For instance, there's a light-regulated pedestrian-only crossing on this one hill, with a bus stop 100 yards after it. If the bus is breathing down my neck as we wait for a green I'll try to move early to get across and past the bus stop so that the bus doesn't have to wait for me to get moving, or worse, try to pass me and then stop.

In practice, though, I wait through almost all red lights, pissing off many an urban cyclist ;) I make a HUGE point out of stopping when a cab driver can see me, since I know they are cyclist haters number one around here.

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Originally Posted by lph

I agree, with one caveat - to accord you respect as a vehicle, someone has to be around to see it.

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It's also the law here that bicycles follow street laws while on the street. I tend to follow the law whether or not anyone can see. And whether or not I'm in my car or on my bike.

I don't run red lights. I have to admit, on occasion, I carefully go through stop signs without completely stopping, and feel very guilty about it. Much more guilty than rolling through the same sign in my car.

I know that in California, the ticket for running a stop sign or light on a bike is the same for running it in your car. Something like $300+, and you either go to traffic school or get a point on your license.

Were there some slightly different responses when a similar topic was discussed several months ago about whether or not one used a rolling stop vs. a full stop at an intersection?

:o

There is one place on my commute where I'm guilty of a rolling stop. I'm trying not to. At red lights I use the pedestrian buttons. There is only one place where I take the lane. The rest of the time I am on the bike path.

Deb

On my morning commute I do rolling stops at stop signs all the time. I only ever encounter one car (two if it's a busy morning) on my way to work. When there's a car around, I do come to a full stop at a stop sign. If not, I slow down and check for cars and roll through. I know- I'm a bad cyclist. In the afternoons I always stop.

I have only "run" a red traffic light once (on my commute) and that's because I sat there for an eternity and couldn't trip it (goes back to seeing no cars on my morning commute). Now I just take a different way to avoid that light.

These days, I always come to a complete stop at red lights. If the light is on a sensor and there are no cars around to activate it, eventually I'll go on the red. But that's it...

I used to run reds a lot more, but don't anymore. There's one road with way more lights than it needs that is one of my favorite routes through town on my bike, but I almost never travel that road by car. I used to run the reds on that particular road regularly, but then one day I was driving there and realized that I was driving right on through the reds, out of habit. Including the one right by the fraternal order of police lodge. :eek: So I chanded my bike habits, and don't run the reds anymore...

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

I stop for red lights but if my bike can't actuate them, I cross the street red light or not. Of course I look both ways,proceed with caution etc...
But some lights just won't change without a ton of steel actuating them!
I never "BLOW" through red lights.

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I know. I agree with 100% of what you said Biciclista. Some mornings it is too early for a single car to be out (it seems) and my steel steeds don't trigger the actuators. I have to be cautious, but then I begrudgingly go through.

On Critical Mass, most of the people I ride with want to blow through the lights. I do not. I don't think it sets a good precident, it pisses drivers off, and is generally unsafe.

Also, on a funny note - sort of thread-drifty. I rode yesterday and got yelled at to "Get off the street!" Sometimes when drivers get aggressive I move to the sidewalk. Maybe 10 minutes later a man I biked past on the sidewalk yelled at me to "Get off the sidewalk!" :p In my state if you ride on the street, you act like a car. You can ride on the sidewalk (but not downtown) if you act like a pedestrian. Drivers get so mean sometimes. There needs to be a cycling awareness campaign in my state. IMO. *Sorry, needed to vent...back to your regularly scheduled thread.*

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Originally Posted by moderncyclista

Also, on a funny note - sort of thread-drifty. I rode yesterday and got yelled at to "Get off the street!" Sometimes when drivers get aggressive I move to the sidewalk. Maybe 10 minutes later a man I biked past on the sidewalk yelled at me to "Get off the sidewalk!" :p In my state if you ride on the street, you act like a car. You can ride on the sidewalk (but not downtown) if you act like a pedestrian. Drivers get so mean sometimes. There needs to be a cycling awareness campaign in my state. IMO. *Sorry, needed to vent...back to your regularly scheduled thread.*

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When I first started cycling, I couldn't figure out if I was "supposed" to ride on the sidewalk or the road. Motorists yelled "Get off the road!" and I was absolutely mortified when a pedestrian said "Bicyclists belong on the road" as I passed her. I was so mad: why can't "they" figure out which way it should be? Didn't she realize the only way to access the bike racks is by sidewalk, which implies that bikes use the sidewalks?

Now that I am a seasoned cyclist and I have taken Traffic Cycling 101 (was Road I when I took it) and am an LCI to boot, I know what is wrong: there is no consensus, no "they", no "supposed". The Bike League is generally regarded as the expert but not everyone knows about the bike league or agrees with them.

The best thing I got out of the bike class was confidence in my choices. I choose the road. I choose when to share the lane or take the lane. I choose to observe the signs, lights, and rules and regulations that apply to me. That power to choose made everything else much less stressful, like the mixed & hostile messages.

And to get to the bike racks, I have to use the sidewalks. I ride slowly & quietly behind the pedestrian traffic (if any).

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Originally Posted by moderncyclista

"Get off the sidewalk!"

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In the past month, while running on the sidewalk, I've been run into the street three times by people on bicycles. I won't dignify them win the name "cyclist"...

a few weeks ago a guy in a car yelled at me, "Get on the sidewalk!" as he was pulling away. I thought it particularly funny since there was no sidewalk where we were.

As far as I can tell, in Ohio, it's not illegal to ride bikes on the sidewalk, according to that lovely little manual from the DMV, except where the city says you can't. (Cleveland says you can't ride on the sidewalk in business districts, for example.) It's just not encouraged. I know at home they just built wide sidewalks that are bike and pedestrian paths so they didn't have to put in bike lanes. :rolleyes:

There are a couple of places where I have to use the sidewalk on my commute. I am very watchful and careful of pedestrians. There are very few at that time of the morning. I don't make them get out of my way. Part of downtown has a split sidewalk with part being designated for bikes and part for pedestrians.

Deb

I do exactly what Biciclista does. I never run red lights, but I do use rolling stops at some stop signs.
There was one highway crossing (a suburban street) that I had to do when I commuted. It was about 6:00 to 6:15 AM when I got there and hardly any cars. My bike would not trip the signal, so I did cross on the red a few times. There's no ped. signal there (why I don't know, since it's a major crossing for cyclists and runners to get from one side of town to the other) either.

I ride on the sidewalk sometimes, especially when it's dark and rainy and there are big parked trucks blocking the bike path. It's along the same road that this whole thread started, and it's rarely used by pedestrians (if there are, I'll slow down and always verbalize if I'm coming up behind them).

I've had to alter my return route because the other direction of this road (they're both one way), people tend to use as a speed track. Which, incidentally, was used as a temporary Indy course when we actually had them. Now the bike path is blocked off by big huge barriers for the Olympics so there's really no place for cyclists to go.

It's getting off topic a bit, but I find it ironic how the powers-that-be tell residents to leave the car at home, to bike or take transit during the Olympics, but on the next breath they tell us to expect hours-long delays on transit or bike paths being closed. :confused:

I typically ride away from downtown when I leave my house, but it's pretty irritating when I do decide to go downtown to go to the post office or the library via bike. There's maybe a 1 mile stretch which has a lot of traffic dumping into it from the highway and a military base, with businesses , banks, restaurants, and gas stations all crammed in it... I tend to ride on the road there, but if it's rushhour, I will usually ride on the sidewalk. Although, the sidewalk in several places just has like 8 inch drops in it or disappears or has a telephone pole in the middle of it. And it's going up and down driveways constantly. Actually crossing the entrance ramp for teh highway can be hard, because everyone floors it when they get in the vicinity of it.

The way back in the same stretch is full of disappearing sidewalks and at least 2 parallel grates in the road with spacing larger than my tires. (both directions have grates with potholes all about them)

I'm pretty sure if I ever get hit by a car, it'll be on this one little stretch.

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Originally Posted by MDHillSlug

a few weeks ago a guy in a car yelled at me, "Get on the sidewalk!" as he was pulling away. I thought it particularly funny since there was no sidewalk where we were.

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My typical ride is on the shoulder of a 4 lane highway through endless miles of Texas farm land and prairie. I have had several pick ups pull into the shoulder ahead of me and yell at me to ride on the sidewalk. Talk about people unclear on a concept.

marni