Different standard?: pro sports penalties for cussing, unsportsman-like behaviour

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Ser...722/story.html

I don't know anything about pro tennis to understand if the $175,000US fine is reasonable against tennis player, Serena Williams for her cussing, unsportsmanlike behaviour on the court. Is it because in pro tennis there's a higher level of sportsmanlike behaviour vs. pro hockey???

Don't agree with any paid pro or even amateur athlete being threatening, cussing..but it seems like hypocrisy where in pro hockey, surely there's alot of cussing, violence...brawls more often. 'Course it's been ages since I've watched pro hockey regularily.

Why is it hypocritical?

The governing body of Tennis is not the same as the governing body for Hockey by any stretch. The only commonality seems to be that they are both considered sports and you can occassionally watch both on TV; hardly a striking similarity.

Different sports, different leagues, different rules, different expectations.

Did I say that it was the same governing body? No, I'm not that clueless.:)

Or work the reverse, why a certain amount of pro hockey violence is accepted...still.
http://www.thestar.com/article/568448

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Originally Posted by shootingstar

[url] Is it because in pro tennis there's a higher level of sportsmanlike behavior vs. pro hockey???
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I think you answered your own question.

Tennis is traditionally very gentlemanly and refined. It's the tradition, stemming from tennis' origins in the royal courts of France. Seems like if you are going to play the game, you have to play by its rules. She didn't; therefore she pays.

Hockey has different history, culture, and rules.

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Originally Posted by tulip

Tennis is traditionally very gentlemanly and refined. It's the tradition, stemming from tennis' origins in the royal courts of France. Seems like if you are going to play the game, you have to play by its rules. She didn't; therefore she pays.

Hockey has different history, culture, and rules.

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Yes, true that French tradition hangs around. Refined.
Except for the Tour de France, I don't watch international competitive cycling (not that there's much offered here on tv in Canada). Where does cycling stand, somewhere ..further away from hockey potential for outright physical violence or cussing at the officials? I don't follow competitive cycling news.

It's not the Frenchness that makes tennis refined...it's the royalty. Tennis was a sport played only by royal folks--you know, kings and dauphins and such.

TdF is not royal.

I don't think you can compare sports cultures like this. You gotta compare apples to apples. And tennis and hockey (or cycling or rugby or stock car racing) are not apples to apples.

Golf has strong traditions, but not royal roots.

Aw, who cares anyways? Serena screwed up. Plain and simple. She should know better.

prhaps shootingstar is talking about gender in-equality in sports.

Serena cusses and acts up and she gets fined $175,000 several years of pay for lot of people....

What about someone like the bad boy of Andre Agassi (sp)... wasn't he a bad boy on the court, throwing temper tantrums, throwing rackets, breaking rackets... didn't he also get fined? and was it comparable to Serena??

And one thing people dance around is the race issue. It's STILL AROUND whether you like it or not. Example: Wasn't Augusta golf club or whatever its official name. didn't they have a bit of problem with Tiger Woods playing there because he IS PART BLACK and part Asian? I don't think they allow "colored" people into their "all white boys club".

TdF and gentleman-ly behavior... LOL There is a certain amount of civility and sportsman conduct to be sure. If you don't follow the tradition, peloton will "kill" you at the next stage.

I'm a big tennis fan and follow the sport pretty closely. What Serena did, IMO, went beyond the bounds of acceptable behavior for any sport. Not only did she spew some pretty foul language for all to hear, she also threatened a linesperson with physical violence. I don't know much about hockey, but I know that in the NFL (a sport I am truly passionate about) language like that directed at an official will more than likely get you fined. A threat of violence will get you tossed out of the game (which I think should have happened to Serena).

For the record, I love Serena. She is amazingly talented and a fierce competitor. I root for her every time she steps out onto a tennis court, and will continue to do so. I totally get that she was caught up in the heat of battle and lost her head. But IMO a mere fine is actually letting her off easy. A suspension would not have been out of order.

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Originally Posted by shootingstar

Did I say that it was the same governing body? No, I'm not that clueless.:)

Or work the reverse, why a certain amount of pro hockey violence is accepted...still.
http://www.thestar.com/article/568448

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IMO for it to be hypocritical it WOULD have to be the same governing body. That was my point.

Otherwise I'm really not sure what your argument is/what you are upset about. Hockey is a contact sport, always has been; tennis is not. Do hockey players take it too far, probably, but too far in hockey and too far in tennis are, and should be, vastly different things. I'd find it silly to expect the same behaviors in both.

Now if you'd noted that two tennis players misbehaved similarly and the women was fined while the man was not by the same governing body, then I'd say that was hypocritical, sexist, and wrong. No evidence of that has been brought up here though. The comparison was between apples and oranges.

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Originally Posted by MartianDestiny

Now if you'd noted that two tennis players misbehaved similarly and the women was fined while the man was not by the same governing body, then I'd say that was hypocritical, sexist, and wrong. No evidence of that has been brought up here though. The comparison was between apples and oranges.

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I haven't seen the behavior that Serena got fined for, but John McEnroe was another 'ungentlemanly' tennis player. I wonder if her behavior was worse than his, or if he ever got fined?

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

And one thing people dance around is the race issue. It's STILL AROUND whether you like it or not. Example: Wasn't Augusta golf club or whatever its official name. didn't they have a bit of problem with Tiger Woods playing there because he IS PART BLACK and part Asian? I don't think they allow "colored" people into their "all white boys club".

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Wrong.

There was a legal fight over their exclusion of WOMEN from their men's club and the PGA's exclusion of women. These are actually (in my mind) two separate issues and muddling them together did absolutely no good for her case.

Right, wrong, or indifferent on the subject of exclusion of women (which really came down to a "why can't women have their cake and eat it too" argument by having a pro level LPGA AND be allowed to participate in the pro level PGA, which is probably primarily why she lost); the Augusta National, to the best of my knowledge, never attempted to exclude Tiger (and I lived in Ga).

I'm sure some people got their panties in a wad about it because there are still racist people out there, but there was not an attempt at exclusion by the golf club itself.

They never attempted to exclude Tiger, but Augusta National still didn't admit their first black (male) member until 1990. There have been other black golfers besides Tiger Woods.

Karen

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Originally Posted by oxysback

I haven't seen the behavior that Serena got fined for, but John McEnroe was another 'ungentlemanly' tennis player. I wonder if her behavior was worse than his, or if he ever got fined?

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Good point, oxy. Serena deserved to be fined, I'm not arguing on this.

I still don't excuse hockey violence as an acceptable and natural part of the sport culture, though I agree it's a contact sport which makes it abit different. Players should be (and they are, though I haven't kept up on the degree of penalties, even jail sentence) but how much $$$.

Hockey on ice fighting wasn't always so much like that. Dearie gave up watching NHL hockey years ago when brawls on the ice became more regular.

Smilingcat...race can be divider....at sport cultural level. Every sport can be cliquish....even in cycling...it's how one develops friendships with other cyclists, develps rapport, understands the language of cycling, etc. Otherwise why are there studies now being done in Portland and Toronto on why cycling population is still quite white? Studies being done this year...in the 21st century. I'm just talking about non-competitive cycling. Stark reality is even more in competitive cycling in North America cycling circles.

For instance there are huge East Indian-Canadian population in Vancouver and Toronto. Haven't seen these folks cycling in droves and there's enough who are Westernized/assimilated enough to get out of the car-centric mentality. Or maybe not.

Sorry for digression. Carry on. :)

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Originally Posted by oxysback

I haven't seen the behavior that Serena got fined for, but John McEnroe was another 'ungentlemanly' tennis player. I wonder if her behavior was worse than his, or if he ever got fined?

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Oh, yeah, Johnny Mac got fined back in the day, LOL. If memory serves, he even had to forfeit a match once due to his behavior. Honestly I think what Serena did was worse -- she threatened physical violence against a linesperson. No defense for that.

:eek::eek::eek: oh forgot about John McEnroe. :eek::eek:

Well Serena should have been tossed out if she had made physical threats. You don't go around threatening people.

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Originally Posted by wackyjacky1

Oh, yeah, Johnny Mac got fined back in the day, LOL. If memory serves, he even had to forfeit a match once due to his behavior. Honestly I think what Serena did was worse -- she threatened physical violence against a linesperson. No defense for that.

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Yes - Serena was worse. Much worse. It didn't even come off as a crime of passion during the event and her commentary after it was over was pathetic. Honestly, it was like she was on drugs or something...totally out of character. Even John MacEnroe was stunned (he was a commentator). And Serena's outburst did actually cost her the match. She wasn't thrown out, but her second outburst in the same match cost her a point (by the rules) and that point happened to be match point.

I actually felt really bad for Kim Kleisters who was her opponent for that match. She had no idea what was going on (too far away to hear what was being said to the line judge) and she kind of had a stunned look on her face when they told her she'd won by default.

I actually heard that Serena is wanting to develop a Bad Girl image, and hence the lack of genuine apology or taking responsibility after this incident.

I LOVE tennis. I watch the majors in a frighteningly obsessive manner. I saw this match and was absolutely blown away she had the lack of presence to so blatantly go off on (and threaten) someone who was so obviously just doing her job. It was beyond out of character, it was weird. I also agree about racism being a huge problem in tennis, and golf, but if any player did anything remotely like what she did, they would definitely be expecting exactly what she received.

Does anyone remember when Serena was on the receiving end of some really, really bad calls? I think it was the U.S. Open, or the French Open semis or finals maybe five years ago, and she lost the match after having been given a few very, very bad calls--I think there was at least one incident when the umpire over ruled the line judge, and she was clearly wrong to do so. Serena was remarkably composed during that incident, and it also clearly cost her the title.

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Originally Posted by lunacycles

It was beyond out of character, it was weird.

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Yes. It totally was odd. I mean, my husband and I (we also watch tons of tennis) just stood there with our jaws hanging down. It was a train wreck for sure...