Respect on the Road

Marni's "Ghost Riders" thread made me think of this . . .

When riding on the road, I always acknowledge other cyclists. Those coming toward me on the opposite side of the road, I nod to, or wave. Likewise, other cyclists acknowledge me, whether I am riding alone or with the various groups I ride with.

Today, however, I was on my old around-the-town bike that I almost never ride anymore, riding with a friend on an old beater bike, going slowly on the MUP. It was a recovery day for me, and I had promised my friend that I would show her the whole path. Anyway, to make a long story short, I noticed on today's ride that none of the on-coming cyclists were giving me the time of day! I would nod to them, as usual, and they would just keep riding along like they didn't see me!

It was a strange feeling to be treated so differently than usual just because I a) wasn't going as fast as usual and b) didn't have any fancy equipment with me.

It got me wondering - am I like that? Do I only acknowledge properly clad cyclists on fancy bikes? I wish that the answer to that was a resounding "no" but I don't know if I can say that . . . I will certainly try to be better about this in the future, as the lack of politeness I experienced today was definitely a wake-up call.

Has anyone else experienced that? Being treated less courteously by fellow cyclists when not sporting fancy equipment? Or catching yourself doing just that on occasion?

Most of the time I don't acknowledge anyone. I don't get acknowledged either, that's the Norwegian way of being polite :D

Seriously, it's a numbers thing. When I commute no-one nods to anyone, it would be like waving to every car you pass or greeting every ped on the street. Ditto for riding in the woods on a busy Saturday. But if I'm out in the woods on a cold day when hardly anyone's about and I haven't seen anyone for, say, an hour, I'm more likely to exchange a friendly nod or smile with some-one.

And it's a group thing. On my road bike, especially in club gear, I'll nod to other roadies, especially in club gear. Roadies are such a small group here that it comes naturally to acknowledge each other. But it's not because of the quality of their gear, the woods are chock full of mtb riders with bikes worth much more.

Indeed we've been through this one before here... LPH and I have similar views.

Around here at least there are tons of cyclists. Waving to/acknowledging each of them would be like waving to all the other drivers when you commute in your car. Do I give other racers a nod - sure. We have something extra in common and its a small enough community that in all likelyhood we know one another in some manner - if we haven't raced together, we've hung out, we know each other's SOs, we've been to the same parties, shared pumps, carpooled, helped pin on numbers, etc. In fact if they are women, its more unlikely that I don't know them.... It has nothing to do with their gear or how fast they are riding and it has nothing to do with snubbing anyone.

And as LPH pointed out one person's polite is another's intrusive. I come from a relatively private background. I don't want to be talked to by strangers on the street.... I don't consider people who don't pay attention to me impolite - personally I consider people that I don't know who want to say hi to me overly forward.

Sometimes I nod and give a lift of the fingers off the bars, other times I don't. It depends on where I'm at in my workout. If I'm doing intervals, I can't break out of that just to acknowledge another cyclist...particularly where I live. On a Saturday ride on the coast, I might encounter hundreds of them.

I realized long ago that cyclists are out there for a myriad of reasons and I don't take anything personally. When I do wave, I'm an equal opportunity waver, no matter the bike they're riding.

I have noticed that. I get often get waves and nods on my road bike but if I am on my hybrid or beater, rarely any hellos. So, I make it point to wave or nod to all, regardless of bike or clothing. However, if you're not wearing a helmet, I won't give you the time of day!

There are only 3 times I can think of when I'm puzzled by other riders and drivers not acknowledging me.

1) A road rider that stares right at me and doesn't respond back. If you want to ride by without looking at me, fine. You may be in the throws of intervals or whatever, but staring me down means that when I see you broken down on the side of the road, I'll likely respond following your model.

2) A mtn biker who doesn't say thanks or hello or anything when I've pulled off to the side of the trail to let him/her pass.

3) I'm completely puzzled by neighbors who look neither right nor left when driving through the neighborhood, especially when the neighborhood has narrow streets necessitating pulling over to let someone pass. Dude! When your house is burning down or you have an emergency, you going to look at me then?

Otherwise, to each her own. Yes, I wiggle my fingers, nod my head or smile at many cyclists, and many times I don't.

OK, wait, I need to add #4 - the rider who comes up from behind and passes completely without warning, nearly knocking me off the road because he's incapable of passing more than a frog's hair away. If I can feel your knuckles, you're too close.

I'm with you on #2 SK. That applies to when I'm both mtn biking or running on the trails. A simple acknowledgment would be nice since I could still be turtle-ing along at my pace and holding you up.

I really think people are much more self-absorbed than they used to be- even 20 years ago. Maybe because we have so much going on and so much to think about, maybe because we're afraid to make eye-contact with others because of road rage type incidents, maybe just because we're more self involved. Who knows?
I try to be friendly when applicable. Sometimes it's just not practical but I try when I can.

Oh, but I definitely notice more waves/acknowledgment when I'm riding my fancy tri bike and much less when I'm riding my commuter bike. I guess because faster bikes/people are worth the little hand/finger lift but people on slow bikes aren't??? Who knows? I feel much cooler when I'm riding my commuter bike, BTW.

When I lived in a small town in NC, I noticed this exact same thing. I rode my fast road bike on my commute and I'd get nods/waves by the roadies I'd pass (they were out for evening rides - not commuting...hardly anyone commuted in that town but me). When I was riding my oddly set up touring bike with the rack and lights on my commute...the exact same people in the exact same location would snub me. Initially it annoyed me. Then I started to find it funny.

Now I ride in an area where there are just so many riders of so many types that waving/acknowledging every one would just be annoying. I do try to make a point of waving at all women on bikes (no matter the bike), so I guess that's my own 'little group' in my head. ;)

Isn't it just that we tend to notice and acknowledge first the people we consider to be in "our sub-group" - whether it's the "roadie group", the "walking the dog group", or the "out on a cold day when no-one else is-group"? Cyclists in general are too big a group for me to acknowledge all of them at all times.

I think LPH has it right--we acknowledge people in our sub-group, and for better or for worse, there are sub-groups of the overall cycling sub-group! I've had the same experience where people nod, smile, or wave when I'm on my road bike (funniest reaction is when someone STARTS to acknowledge me, sees the fenders and rack, and realizes that maybe I'm NOT in their sub-group and turns the acknowledgement into an awkward I-meant-to-do-that gesture) but don't even seem to see me when I'm on my Townie with a purse in the front basket. The moms with strollers, however, DO acknowledge me on that bike where they don't on the road bike.

Sarah

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sfa

I think LPH has it right--we acknowledge people in our sub-group, and for better or for worse, there are sub-groups of the overall cycling sub-group! I've had the same experience where people nod, smile, or wave when I'm on my road bike (funniest reaction is when someone STARTS to acknowledge me, sees the fenders and rack, and realizes that maybe I'm NOT in their sub-group and turns the acknowledgement into an awkward I-meant-to-do-that gesture) but don't even seem to see me when I'm on my Townie with a purse in the front basket. The moms with strollers, however, DO acknowledge me on that bike where they don't on the road bike.

Sarah

---

First time I went out on the bike trail in Cincinnati (in July, a mere two days after I had gotten my road bike), I was wearing one of BF's jerseys. I got lots of nods and waves from the spandex-clad crowd, and one wave from a guy out riding with his kids--he'd stopped to let us go by earlier in the day and his kids recognized our bikes. The second time I went out on the trail (in October, with the same bike), I was much more experienced with the bike, and going a lot faster, but wearing a clearly not-cycling fleece jacket over my jersey. I got no acknowledgment from the few roadies on the path (it was pretty chilly), and the odd wave or nod from people on hybrids.

Most roadies wave or nod when I am on my road bike. Although, lately I have had a few just blast by rudely. When I am on my Jamis, I get a mixed reaction. It's clear I'm doing errands or commuting somewhere, but I am dressed usually in what I'd call urban cycling clothes (Ibex, loose capris, skorts). Commuters will wave and if it's one of the few deep winter rides I do, on this bike, anyone out will wave. I see the roadies look at this bike, though, since not a lot of people around here have Jamis'.
Drivers definitely are more courteous when I'm on the Jamis. They will stop and let me turn, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eden

personally I consider people that I don't know who want to say hi to me overly forward.

---

When people talk about the Seattle freezeout, this is exactly what they are talking about. That's the sucky part about living in Seattle that nobody talks about. I'm not sure why we are this way, some blame the Scandinavian influence. I smile at other bikeriders, who in general are friendlier to strangers than the typical Seattle culture.

Waving or not doesn't really come up in NYC, but in winter, as Crankin mentioned, people do wave, especially if it's dark or nearly so. They also ask if I'm okay if I stop to put on lip balm, which is cool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tc1

When people talk about the Seattle freezeout, this is exactly what they are talking about. That's the sucky part about living in Seattle that nobody talks about. I'm not sure why we are this way, some blame the Scandinavian influence. I smile at other bikeriders, who in general are friendlier to strangers than the typical Seattle culture.

---

I didn't grow up here.... I'm from Pittsburgh. I'm not talking about being unkind. I'm the type of person that if you ask me directions, I'm more likely to take you there if I can. I always ask people folks with flats if they are OK. Still I have a fair amount of personal space and I'm not much of an idle chit chatter even with people I know. So I guess I don't find it to be sucky here at all.

Thinking about this more, I think that those of you who said that people (probably myself included) are just more likely to acknowledge those who we consider to be one of us.

I guess it was just a different experience for me to nod to cyclists and be ignored, when I am used to getting a response. Basically, out of habit, I was acknowledging those who I considered to be like me (roadies, and especially roadies wearing team kits that I recognize and personally know their teammates), but given my equipment that day, they didn't equate me with their group.

Hmm, wonder how I would be treated if I were wearing my team kit while on a beater bike. That might confuse some fellow roadies out there :-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chicagogal

Hmm, wonder how I would be treated if I were wearing my team kit while on a beater bike.

---

That made me laugh out loud. :D I can just see the confused faces now... ;)
Maybe I'll try that on my commute home from work. Take a spin around the lake with my panniers, folding bike, handlebar bag and a team kit. Man- I'd look like a poser (or just a loon).

I just try to remember that life isn't all about me. If I wave & don't get a wave back, maybe they didn't see me, are engrossed in thought or just a jerk. I prefer to consider the first two possibilities.

I'm a consummate waver. I wave to cyclists, peds, etc. Maybe I need a 12 step group. WA - Waver's Anonymous.

I wave to cyclists, walkers, runners as when I am on the bike I am in that "so happy" feeling. However, it is most gratifying that when I see someone on a comfort, hybrid etc (I ride a road bike) and I wave/acknowledge them, they get such a grin on their face. I feel like a just made their day.

I have to say when I do this when riding with my husband he is like "there she goes again, waving to everyone"

~ JoAnn

when I am out on my road bike during the week training, and riding solo I try to at least a finger to every other bike rider I see, regardless of what they are riding, The funny thing is that male riders rarely if ever acknowledge me, even when there are only two us out in the boonies, 60 miles from Houston, obviously doing distance training whereas if a woman or women they willunfailinng acknowledge me.

On weekends is I ride with my husband even the pace linen riders will acknowledge if he is riding in front, but that same group will ignore us if I am riding in front.

When I ride with a group of women we average about 50% acknowledgements whether riding out in the boonies on a distance ride, or in the burbs on a local ride.

Being as it is around Houston, I was beginning to suspect it was a Texas good old boy thing, but maybe not.

marni
sa

Here in Oz( Canberra) out in the edges of the suburbs, its mixed. Lots of rider, mostly commuters, roadies and joy riders.
I just smile at everyone, and usually get smiles or nods( roadies) in return.
I do wear full racing kits( tight black stuff) and am on my racing bike( not a great one but isnt a hybrid). I am more apt to get nods from roadies when not using panniers. I think its more like, hey ! your one of us! sort of thing.
A lot of people seem to be surprised that I smile at them, in racing kit( or whatever it is!) when they ride so called normal bikes!

ummm ALL the time. yup. I ride an awesome 70's lightweight lugged steel motobecane super mirage, a rare type of mixte where the top tupe doesn't split until the seat stays, converted to a single speed. She's super scratched up, all black , and her logos have faded. A friend of mine found her in a dumpster with bent front forks and a missing wheel and I hammered her back into shape and cleaned her up. She's my main squeeze at the moment.

A couple weeks ago I was heading out of work onto my usual uphill upwind 30 minute battle home, and I was just about to roll off the sidewalk in front of my store when 2 *ahem* adult women rolled by on their fancy carbon frames that I could never, ever, EVER afford and one of them yelled 'hey, where are your training wheels?!' or something to that effect.

I think they may have assumed I was riding on the sidewalk or something. Irritating. I would have yelled back something brutal but I still had my work ID on and I was right in front of my workplace. They sure will feel like idiots when they figure out I work there, right there in the new store that just opened up in their nieghborhood that everybody loves.

But seriously, who does that? There could have been a million valid reasons for me to be on that sidewalk... and these ladies looked twice my age...

They probably don't even know how to tune those fancy carbon frames... Shoot, I'd be surprised if they knew how to change a tire with thier level of street smarts...

But yes. some people are bike-ists. It's true. I'm looking forward to seeing the difference in reaction with my 'fancy' new 80's aluminum cannondale that I have spent ALL of my money replacing parts on (pics up soon when she's done:D) If I could ever afford a carbon bike like that I would have one in a heartbeat. And I would probably kick a whole lot of butt on it too. Most people's butt. not to mention the level of appreciation I'd have that many take for granted. But I am happy with what I do have and I love my motobecane just the same.

According to my roomate, who's univega was found in similar shape in the same dumpster, there is a big difference in how people respond to the 'look' of your bike. He made his look like one of those hipster trendy bikes and now all the fixie kids in our building are jealous. I guess their parents can buy them all the parts in the world but their ride will never have the stamp of true passion.

Quite the opposite reaction before he put all those fancy matching colors on it. Same bike, different colors. hmmm....

and by the way we work twice as hard to go half as far most of the time, and don't you forget it ;)

I greet everyone with a wave, nod and/or a hello.... kids, roadies, trail riders, people unloading groceries on the side of the road, men waxing their cars in the driveway.... I'm like the little kid in the child's seat of the grocery cart greeting every shopper that walks by. The majority of the time I get greeted back. I think I just feel lucky and happy to be away from my responsibilities and on my bike.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eden

I didn't grow up here.... I'm from Pittsburgh. I'm not talking about being unkind. I'm the type of person that if you ask me directions, I'm more likely to take you there if I can. I always ask people folks with flats if they are OK. Still I have a fair amount of personal space and I'm not much of an idle chit chatter even with people I know. So I guess I don't find it to be sucky here at all.

---

You are from Pittsburgh (as am I) so that sort of courtesy is bred in you. When I moved to Philly, I realized how much I took those simple acts of kindness for granted.

Sorry to drift this thread....

Seattle freeze out? hmmm I don't think so.
I notice cyclists are more apt to be friendly when we are out at 8am on a sunday and we run into one; they are happy to see that there are other cyclists on the road.
My Dh and I make a point of being friendly to everyone we see on a bike, including the guy who rides a bike because he can't afford a car.
Now it's also true that he'll probably yell at the guy dressed in black w/o a helmet or a bike light going the wrong way down the street in the dark, but it's out of concern.

So anyway; i have been riding in my expensive bike gear on my DH's 1988 raleigh MTB and i get friendliness from all the other fancy bike riders. IF we happen to stop and talk the Raleigh bike is admired.