Running into daylight savings time - 11/01-11/7/09

Hello everyone! How did everyone do this weekend? Jolt I read your cc report and that sounds like you had a blast! And in vffs, too. Impressive!

I was out all day Saturday on the mountain bike and we were staying at my MIL's overnight so Sunday I did not get in my long run. It was just hard to get out of the house without feeling rude (though I wish now I had. I figured I'd get a run in when I got home but we ended up raking leaves all afternoon.)

Today I will walk the hills at lunch, and tonight I have my 2nd Pilates class.

Tomorrow I ride, Wednesday I will run. My plan is Wed. 6, thur. 3, Friday 4 and Saturday off. Sunday I think we are mountain biking again so I may have to adjust that plan but for now it will work.

I walked a very slow half-mile in socks on the treadmill yesterday. I ran Friday and, despite my best efforts to land on the midfoot and keep my feet and lower legs relaxed, I ended up with shin splints. The treadmill walking was an attempt to ingrain in my head what my feet are supposed to be doing when my form is right.

Grrrrr :mad: DH says that I'm impatient. Persistant, but impatient. (He's right, of course.) I so badly want to get my form figured out so that I can start building mileage and speed.

I won't run again until Wednesday. Bike commute today, and night mountain biking tomorrow :D

Re-started my C25k program today and I'm happy to report that I am blister free! It took awhile for those things to heal... Anyway, it felt great to get out there in 55 F, 20 mph winds, and a light mist weather.

One thing I noticed is that during the walk sections, the outsides of my ankles feel really sore, but it eases up during the run sections. Anyone have any ideas?

I ran at 5 AM and it was serene. It was 35 degrees out and I didn't see one car for the entire 3 miles. It was even starting to get a little light because of the change in time; well that and the full moon.
I felt much faster today and nothing hurt. My Garmin Forerunner is kaput. DH is giving me his 305. But I know I was faster today.

I took advantage of the time change Sunday AM and went for an early run. Hoping to keep the momentum going. Now, instead of getting up at 5:45 AM, get up at 4:45 AM every morning so I can run . . . .

That's the plan anyways.

Started week 1/17 of my half marathon training today. Nice to have light at 6 am! 2 slow and easy miles today... 3 later this week, and 5 this weekend. Nice to be running again after a long break!

A regular half-hour run in the neighborhood today, half on the roads and the other half on grass etc. in the park. Now it's time to work on some school stuff...

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Originally Posted by Becky

I walked a very slow half-mile in socks on the treadmill yesterday. I ran Friday and, despite my best efforts to land on the midfoot and keep my feet and lower legs relaxed, I ended up with shin splints. The treadmill walking was an attempt to ingrain in my head what my feet are supposed to be doing when my form is right.

Grrrrr :mad: DH says that I'm impatient. Persistant, but impatient. (He's right, of course.) I so badly want to get my form figured out so that I can start building mileage and speed.

I won't run again until Wednesday. Bike commute today, and night mountain biking tomorrow :D

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To really work on the form, I'm not convinced that the treadmill is a great way to go--I feel like it can throw things off b/c it's the ground moving under your feet. This sounds awful, but I would suggest finding a gravel path or similar and walking barefoot on it--it helps sort out your form because if you aren't doing it right it's uncomfortable! Not that walking/running on gravel is entirely comfortable even with good form, but it should be tolerable. I still use this on my runs sometimes--today, for example, there were a couple of areas of gravel on my route and I ran over it on purpose (in VFFs) to check myself.

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Originally Posted by zia

Started week 1/17 of my half marathon training today. Nice to have light at 6 am! 2 slow and easy miles today... 3 later this week, and 5 this weekend. Nice to be running again after a long break!

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Zia, which training program are you using? Just curious because I'm registered for a half in March.

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Originally Posted by Jolt

Not that walking/running on gravel is entirely comfortable even with good form, but it should be tolerable.

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:eek::eek:

You have a different standard of what's tolerable I think... Or else you really mean "gravel" (aka river rock), and not "crushed stone" which is what most people mean when they say "gravel."

I know my form is far from perfect. But I can't walk slowly and carefully across my driveway without excruciating pain. I'm not sure what grade of stone we have, but those rocks are big and sharp, and when they're at least half the size of the part of my foot I'm supposed to be landing on, how does that get comfortable???

ASammy1: I'm using Hal Higdon's Novice Half Marathon. I broke it out into 3 segments, and added 3 weeks of semi-rest (read: sleeping in!), plus an extra week at the start, and another toward the end.

My goal is to know I can run 13.1 (which I haven't done since I was much younger, and mentally need to know I can do if I want to do a half iron), not to set any PRs, so this program works well. I love the options for cross training, and am running 3x a week, swimming 2x, and spinning 1x. I may toss in a few interval sessions from the intermediate plan... if I can find a track not covered in ice! :rolleyes:

Is your half at least somewhere warm? (Mine is definitely not!) Good luck with your training!

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Originally Posted by zia

ASammy1: I'm using Hal Higdon's Novice Half Marathon. I broke it out into 3 segments, and added 3 weeks of semi-rest (read: sleeping in!), plus an extra week at the start, and another toward the end.


Is your half at least somewhere warm? (Mine is definitely not!) Good luck with your training!

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Zia, the only problem I have with this program is the longest training run you do is only 10 miles! I can't imagine only training 10 and then running 13.1. I would be adding some at the end too!

This will be my first half (in Virginia Beach in mid-March) and at this point my only goal is to finish it. I will worry about speed and time down the road. Good luck with your program too!

Ah, well, Hal says: "Don't worry about making the final jump from 10 miles in practice to 13.1 miles in the race. Inspiration will carry you to the finish line, particularly if you taper the final week. "

I'll report back to you at the end of February on exactly how inspired I was!

Week 6 (of 10): 18 miles yesterday. 4 weeks to go. The plan calls for 20/22/10/marathon. At this point, I know I'll make it. The usual aches and pains are starting to appear that you get at 18 miles but not 10 or even 15 - different blisters, more bodyglide required, more soreness the next day.

I ran from my office (around mile marker 1 of MUP) to mile marker 10 and back. That includes a significant 1+ mile climb (up, flat, up, flat, steep, flat, up, steep, flat) between miles 9-10. That made a difference to my return trip, for sure, so I really like including it as a realistic test of the long run.

The 18 miles took me 3:05 - a 10:16 mile. I know some of them were done around 11, some of them around 9:30. I did not stop to eat, I ate on the run, except at mile marker 9 when I stretched my core by standing tall and walking, and then at mile 15 when I put away my flask into my camelbak.

I set my goals (out loud) this week. A goal: 4:30 - a 10:18 mile. Doable, just keep doing the training pace for 8 more miles. B goal: 4:15 - a 9:43 mile. I'm doing many miles at this pace now, but 26.2? Stretch goal: 4:00 - a 9:09 mile.

It's becoming more rational in my head that this is possible at a faster pace. I have an angel voice and a devil voice. Devil voice: but the marathon course is different. But the weather is different. But water and fuel may be different. Angel voice: but we're running in more varied conditions. But we added that big freaking hill with no real loss in time. But we did more miles at the 9:30 pace this week than ever before. And the calculator says so!! (They flip each other off here)

Still working on it ;)

Andrea, what do you think of the course for the Shamrock? Is it really windy?

Have you spectated at it before? Do you know anything about it?

I really don't want to travel that far for my first 26.2. But that's one of the ones I'm kind of looking at, anyhow...

Last Friday my traumatologist informed me that I have to cut back on my running, as I have signs of early degeneration in my hips--and my wonky knee (an old ACL injury) is getting wonkier (we'll probably operate on it in May or June). So he said to cut my running in half--from 12 km a week to 6. I was really enjoying the challenge of trying to increase distance and improve times, so now I'm having to readjust to it just being a warm-up for my weight training, which sounds totally boring. He also said I need to keep the weight down on the weight lifting, without trying to increase much even in the long run. Again, how boring. On the bright side, he said I can cycle as much as I want.

Chile Pepper--sorry to hear!

Colby--this is my first marathon and I have a really big goal of doing it in 4:30. I have 16 weeks to go...so hopefully time to build to that consistent speed (10:18 AVERAGE PACE:eek:). I know I am being agreessive and very optimistic. But I feel like if I don't try it I won't know.

I was wondering on my run the other day...do I include "walk" breaks in training on my LSD days? Realistically will I walk during the real thing? If I "walk" then I need to increase running pace. If I do walks in training...then I need to expect not to bealbe to run the entire 26.2. So I am still thinking and working that out. Any thoughts.

Tonight is 6 miles of "hillls" and only hills I have are overpasseses so it equals hill repeats. At least it is in the mild 70's and 60's by evening/darkness now.

K

I'm out of the running game for awhile and no cycling either most likely. My 10K trail run aggravated my overuse injury from 2007's double centuries. It's got two months to heal before I start training for next year's goal race.

I guess I'll finally just have to start swimming since it's about the only cardio I can do until this heals.

Veronica

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Andrea, what do you think of the course for the Shamrock? Is it really windy?

Have you spectated at it before? Do you know anything about it?

I really don't want to travel that far for my first 26.2. But that's one of the ones I'm kind of looking at, anyhow...

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Oakleaf, the course is really flat/fast and not too windy except for the part on the boardwalk which is where the race ends. I have not spectated the half before, but I ran the Shamrock 8k last year which is always the Saturday before the 1/2 and full marathons. The 26.2 is a 2011 Boston qualifier so with it being flat/fast, many people run it trying to qualify. It's a huge race with lots of people from all over and a really good time. You get beer and Irish stew when you are finished and a lot of people dress up. You have your whole spectrum of serious runners down to the person running with green face makeup and feather boa! I had a blast last year for the 8k and I'm really looking forward to making the jump to the half this year.

Here is my race report from last year. http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...light=shamrock

Hope this helps and is the info you are looking for.

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

:eek::eek:

You have a different standard of what's tolerable I think... Or else you really mean "gravel" (aka river rock), and not "crushed stone" which is what most people mean when they say "gravel."

I know my form is far from perfect. But I can't walk slowly and carefully across my driveway without excruciating pain. I'm not sure what grade of stone we have, but those rocks are big and sharp, and when they're at least half the size of the part of my foot I'm supposed to be landing on, how does that get comfortable???

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I guess what I was thinking of was closer to river gravel than to what you're describing--your driveway does sound like it would be a bit rough.

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Originally Posted by katluvr

Colby--this is my first marathon and I have a really big goal of doing it in 4:30. I have 16 weeks to go...so hopefully time to build to that consistent speed (10:18 AVERAGE PACE:eek:). I know I am being agreessive and very optimistic. But I feel like if I don't try it I won't know.

I was wondering on my run the other day...do I include "walk" breaks in training on my LSD days? Realistically will I walk during the real thing? If I "walk" then I need to increase running pace. If I do walks in training...then I need to expect not to bealbe to run the entire 26.2. So I am still thinking and working that out. Any thoughts.

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A couple of theories on that I think - Jeff Galloway always plans walking into his long runs on his training plans, saying that walking in planned walk breaks actually lets you run faster. The alternative opinion is that you should run the whole distance, since it is, after all, a run. ;)

Reality: assuming it in fact it is, this will be the first marathon I will have ran that won't involve walking of some form or another (at the end, in breaks, to eat, whatever). I have only ran two only-marathons (the other two have been Ironman, and lots of half marathons). My first was over 5 hours, my second 4:55 - but the whole time I was telling myself I'm not a runner. I'm trying the "yes I am a runner, and yes I can run fast" self-motivation technique this year. ;)

Walk breaks may be better than hitting a wall at mile 24 and walking 15-20 minute miles for the last 2 miles. :) A sensible way to add them is to walk the aid stations. When training, I often walk when I eat or to stretch - sometimes it really does hit the spot.

If your long run training pace has been/is 10:30-11:30 miles, you probably can make 4:30 -- guessing from the calculator that tells me my 9:45-11 minute training pace lets me run a sub-4 hour marathon anyway. ;)

I ran just under 6miles today. Not a bad run & not a great one. For some reason I really struggled to keep my pace under a 10min/mi. That was a little annoying, but other than that it was a beautiful morning to be outside & I beat the rain so that was good.

It is fun to see what you ladies are choosing to do for your goal races next year. I am excited to track the progress, you did awesome this season! :D

Maggy & I have decided to be ambitious and try for a 100mile ultra August 2010! Right now a 50miler seems very doable, it's what happens after the 50 that I'm curious about. Needless to say, lots and lots of training to do!

I did 6.25 yesterday, just to get out and run. Thought about doing mile repeats and decided it's a little early to start back up on the speedwork. Next week. It definitely works on my head a bit, to know I can run 9:12 (and likely faster) for 13 miles in a flat race, then come home to the hills and non-tapered legs and the tail end of recovery, and be running 10:30's for half the distance. :o

Now here's the interesting thing though. Using Jeff Galloway's pace predictor - just entering my 5K PR and reverse-engineering from there, not actually doing a mile TT - my half marathon time and 5K PR correlated pretty closely. And according to that, my long run pace should be 12:00. In the flats, I'm assuming, and probably adding another :30 for the kind of terrain I have around here. Which, what I've been doing in the hills has been around 10:45 for the most part, give or take :15 on either side.

So... once again, mileage building is going to be about learning to run even more slowly than I already had to learn to run so far.



V. and Chile, so sorry you're sidelined. Chile, enjoy the bike - Veronica, try to hang in there in the pool.

- Oak, who still doesn't even want to LOOK at a pool, 33 years after the ACL injury that meant swimming was the only cardio I could do for three months...

Thanks Colby.
Yeah I am "thinking" I CAN DO THIS. In my past 1/2 marathons and training I did the short walk for hydration/nutrion breaks & in race at teh water stations. But right now plan is NOT to build in significant walk breaks.

Oak, yeah, my long slow distance runs should be between 11 & 12 min miles. Still seems SLOW and still don't understand that is I train for distance at that pace how doe I run the whole distance at race pace. But I am trying HARD to do the plan.

I have long day w/ late meeting today so I ran my "hills" yesterday (scheduled for today). I did 6 miles...up and over that bridge/over pass 3 times (so back and forth 3 times = 6 times up). I did not look at pass. I just ran what I could. 6 miles in 67 mintues. 11.17 min mile pace. I was VERY pleased with my running time, pace and how I felt!

So since I swapped days --today should of be my easy 4 miler. I just couldn't get out of bed. It was less than 12 hours since my hill run. So not sure when I'll get that 4 miler in. I should of just gotten my rear end out of bed and done it!

K

I did a rinky 2.88 trail loop this morning, but I did it in the direction that made it all (excepting one big drop) uphill. So I got a workout, anyhow.

Sometimes I feel like such a poser posting on this thread. All of you are so accomplished and I'm just beginning, but I have to admit that I am inspired by all of you. You ladies keep me pushing forward.

And OMG Urlea! 100 miles :eek:... I am not worthy! I am not worthy!

Anyway, with all that said, I finished w1d2 (week 1, day 2) on the c25k program today and it went fairly well. It seemed like it took longer for the ankle soreness to hit, so maybe I just need to strengthen them!? It was 51F, 11mph winds, and sunny-a great day to be outside!

Andrea, you and I can be posers together :D 3 miles is a long run for me right now :eek:

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Originally Posted by Becky

Andrea, you and I can be posers together :D 3 miles is a long run for me right now :eek:

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Don't feel bad--I've been running for a few years and still usually only do 3-mile runs at around 10:00/mile! My longest ever was about a 9-miler and it involved quite a few walking breaks so it was pretty slow. We don't all have to be super runners, what really matters is getting out there, moving your body the way it was meant to move, and enjoying it.

Oh I don't feel bad, just impatient ;) "Impatient" should be my middle name!

Becky and Andrea, go back and read Colby's great post from a week or two ago, about not feeling like a real runner.

I'm betting most of us don't.

And I think the reality is that if we're committed enough to post about it here, gosh darn it, we're runners.


Urlea, 100... yikes. On topic - it's really important for me to hear that an ultra-runner like you still goes out for 6-mile runs. I get into a mindset that below a certain distance, it's not even worth putting my shoes on for - and the longer my long runs get, the longer that "minimum" seems, too.

All of us have been there...just starting or starting over!
5 years of running before I could say I could run a 10 min mile. I used to always be a 11:30 - 12 min miler. That is still my "comfort" zone.
As for distance...I discoved if I went for SLOW and comfortable I could run longer. So before I EVERY worked on speed I just worked on building distance.
Some people never do more that a 5k. Maybe a 10k here and there. I never thought I would do a full marathon. And I may never again. I like the 1/2 marathon distance becasue I am NOT fast. But I can run 10 - 13 miles (with some training).

Setting goals, not matter how small, are what seems to work for me. If i don't have a race planned or it is not a new challenge...I dont' train. I KNOW I can go out and ride 75 miles with very little training. I am not fast, but I can do it...I have done it so many times. It is mind over body. But if it is a Hilly course, or I am riding w/ those faster than me...then I might actually train. Same w/ running. I can do a 5k any day...not fast, I will never be fast, but it is something I have done in the past and can do it. Now if I wanted to do a 5 k in under 30 min...I would have to train. Does all my rambling make sense or help.

I think with running the hardest part is getting started, getting comfortable at a short distance and then building. You can do it. You are doing it!

(some may disagree with me...there is a part of the population that just loves to run or bike or just train without races or goals. I need something that will MAKE me DO IT.)

I survived Sunday's marathon and actually enjoyed it quite a bit.

The weather was perfect - mid 40s and mostly sunny. It was an out and back route and there was some wind on the way back but nothing too bad.

I didn't make my under 5 hour goal that I had in mind but I'm ok with that. The rail to trail surface was much kinder on the body but also seemed to be harder to keep up the pace that I would have needed to maintain. I did walk through the aid stations (I'm just too uncoordinated to drink and run), and took a few 15 second walk breaks in the last 5 miles, but otherwise I kept plodding along. At about the 5 mile mark I started running with a 60 year old guy who does 6-8 marathons a year. I probably slowed my pace by at least 45 seconds to a minute per mile to run with him but it was well worth it. We talked the whole time and he shared lots of good stories with me. The 10+ miles that we spent together went by much quicker than had I been on my own and really added to the whole experience for me.

Running through the 3/4 mile long railroad tunnel (twice) was a cool added feature. There were glow sticks positioned down the center to keep runners on the correct side. They also placed lanterns about every 50 yards or so. The headlamp worked out great ... much better then the little flashlights that they had on hand for the runners who didn't bring their own lights. Water was constantly dripped down on you so the footing wasn't perfect but not dangerous either - just had to slow it down and watch out, especially on the return trip through.

Hitting the finish line was a great feeling. Surprisingly for me I didn't feel very sore. My hips felt a little tight for the 1st day but by Monday night everything was back to normal. Perhaps that is the one advantage of being a slow runner.

Now I can't stop myself from looking for the next one to do.

SJCzar,
Congrats and awesome!
I have heard after the 1st marathon you either dont' ever want to do another or love it and can't wait. You sound like you will definitely do another!

Congratulations SJC!

Thanks everyone for such encouraging words! I really appreciate hearing/reading :) all of it.

Congratulations SJCzar! You are awesome. I'm sure your new friend appreciated your company as well while running. I know I would have!

Katluvr, you sound exactly like me. My feel good pace is around 11:30, but I got to a 10 min. mile last summer, before my hip started hurting. Now I am back where I was. I also know I can ride 60-75 miles with little training. It will be slowly, but I can do it. I can do almost any hill, too, if I don't care about time. Well, there's been 2 20% grades that got me, but, hey, most people do nothing. Riding with really fast people just depresses me, because I am so not there. I'm not "slow, slow" but not fast enough for the 16 mph average group, either. Plus, my experience with riding has lead me to believe that if I train for running in a really serious way, the fun will go out of it and I will get burned out and stop. I need a happy medium.
I don't train; knowing my compulsive exercise habit, I am pretty sure I would get injured. I spent a few years getting faster on the bike and now age and injury has slowed me down a bit. I do want to get my running speed up, and will work on that over the winter, but once spring comes, I have to train for our bike tour that is in mid May.

Half-hour trail run today, nothing too out of the ordinary. The trails are pretty deep in fallen leaves so you can't always see what you're stepping on. I can't decide if that's good or bad--on the one hand it keeps me from fixating on what's just ahead (and tensing up) and makes me pick up my feet more, on the other hand it does increase the chance of kicking a rock or root if it's sticking up very far but still covered up by the leaves.

You ladies make me laugh & inspire me!! :D Some days I really need the extra push I get from reading your run reports to get me to grab my shoes & go log some miles.

I may be training to run 100miles, but I couldn't run a mile when I started. My first marathon ever was this spring & it was rough. So I decided to try a 50k this past August hoping it would go better than the 26.2, it did & I loved it!

The point I'm trying to make is that whether you run 3miles or 30 the only thing that really matters is that you enjoy what you are doing. For some that is running a 5k, others 13.1, 26.2, 50miles, 100miles, etc.

This past weekend I had the joy of cheering on my running buddy who was trying to PR a 15k. Since I usually participate in the local running events I haven't had the chance to be a spectator much. What I loved was watching each person from the lead runner to those near the end pushing the limits to see what they are capable of. Such determination, commitment. It made me wish I had a cowbell! I'm pretty sure my cheering got a little old to the other more docile spectators near me. :)

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Now here's the interesting thing though. Using Jeff Galloway's pace predictor - just entering my 5K PR and reverse-engineering from there, not actually doing a mile TT - my half marathon time and 5K PR correlated pretty closely. And according to that, my long run pace should be 12:00. In the flats, I'm assuming, and probably adding another :30 for the kind of terrain I have around here. Which, what I've been doing in the hills has been around 10:45 for the most part, give or take :15 on either side.

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According to the Galloway Calculator (colby is an information junkie):
Mile: 7:06 (used my 5k time and backed it out)
5k: 7:39 min/mile (23:43)
10k: 8:10 min/mile (50:37)
Half: 8:31 min/mile (1:51:37)
Marathon: 9:14 min/mile (4:01:50)
Marathon Training: 11:14 min/mile (4:54:14)

DEFINITELY more conservative (realistic?) than the Runner's World calculator. But, hey... if this one says I can run 4:01:50 and the other 3:49, maybe I can split the difference and at least reach 4:00 ;)

My long runs have been at 9:45 to 10:30 pace (based on watching mile markers and checking my watch). Latest was 18 miles in 3:05, 10:16 pace. I guess I won't feel bad if they start slowing down.

I'm considering a) finding the 4:00 pacer at my marathon and just going for it, and b) getting a Garmin (or something) that can track distance/pace for me so I can practice my race pace (9:09 for a 4 hour) and drill it into my head for the next 4 weeks.

On topic: Today I ran more than 4 but probably not 5 miles (did not measure) easy, in 45 minutes or so. I ran a different route so I don't know the distance, was trying to go by time and not get caught up in the speed. Yesterday I went 5 miles in 38:45, I was not able to go all 8 on the menu due to time constraints. I think it was probably better that way, in my long run I got a blister forming on my forefoot underneath-ish my big toe, and I need it to heal by this weekend's 20-miler.

I read someone's recent 100-miler race report. It kind of reminds me of Forrest Gump running and running and running and running. "And when I got there, I figured, since I'd gone this far, I might as well turn around, just keep on going." Or, "Why are you doing this?" "I just felt like running." ;) It's ambitious and challenging and a little scary (okay, crazy), but good luck!!

SJCzar - Congratulations!!
Urlea - Zowie. 100 miles. :eek: Makes my ankles hurt just thinking about it.

As for me, I ran an uneventful 6 miles on Monday.

Yesterday & today I was in Boulder on business, so I had the opportunity to run some trails in North Boulder. For a sea level gal like me, running at 5400 feet is quite the effort! I had to walk some of the steeper, rockier sections. I juts couldn't get enough air. :o But it was really a nice change of pace to run someplace new.

Most memorable moment: Coming upon the signpost which read "Temporary emergency trail closure. This trail has been closed due to recent incident with possible stray bullet." Um, OK then....