new strategy & mantra for the hills

I thought I'd share an interesting experience I had in case it might be useful to other newbies out there.

On my ride before my most recent one, I tried a pretty tough hill for the second time and for the second time had to stop part way and walk the rest. It was a VERY hot and VERY humid day, so I didn't let myself get too discouraged. Still I was somewhat frustrated. My fiance asked whether it was my lungs or legs that were giving out first. Without hesitation I said it was my lungs. After reading about spinning, I'd been dropping down into the lowest possible gear and peddling as fast as I could. My fiance suggested that since my legs weren't getting tired I might want to try gearing up a little and using more leg strength. (I have fairly strong runners' legs.)

So when I was out yesterday, as I started that same killer hill, I didn't drop into my granny gear. I stayed in my middle ring, put my head down, didn't look at the top of the hill (which looked like it was on the other side of the world!), and powered my way up, repeating the mantra, "USE YOUR STONG LEGS!" over and over again until I reached the top! Granted, this was also my first day clipless, so I was also able to use MORE of my leg muscles. Anyway, it was a great experience.

Now I have no idea what all you experienced riders will think of this. I absolutely understand that spinning is what I want to aim for in the long run as I become a more experienced rider. But it was a really great learning experience to figure out how to balance strength and cardio to achieve a goal (e.g. the killer hill!).

I don't know if anyone other new riders out there have struggled with how to make it up the hills, but this really helped me. And I think the mantra was an integral part of it too!

Happy riding!

Shelley
aka newbiechick

Feedback on this topic would be great! I have the same problem - legs still going but have to stop because I can't breathe! It's so embarrassing pulling over to pant while the fit people zoom by me, breathing steadily! :o
I might test out newbiechick's method a little. But gotta be careful of the hinky knees!

Yes, you definitely have to ride a fine line here (pardon the pun!) I have asthma and am small (so have much smaller lungs than Lance!), so gearing down and spinning fast can really challenge my lungs; and yet, using too high a gear to climb and attempting to use more quads and glutes can be tough on my 44-year old knees (and my healing pelvis). It's hard to get just the right gear to balance the breathing issues and the structural issues, but I keep working on it. I find if I resist the urge to gear all the way down, my speed is much better, but I have to be careful not to go too far in the other direction either!

Emily

I have also found hills go better for me if I put a little muscle behind them and mash it out in a higher gear. I've stopped using my granny gear completely and am thinking about going to a double as soon as I can talk my DH into upgrading my bike to Ultegra 10 speed ;) On smaller hills and flats I'm trying hard to work on spinning but I've got some serious hills around my house and the only way to get up them without dying of respirtory failure is to stay in the middle ring.

Oh and I learned my hill mantra here a long time ago. I can't remember who said it first but I repeat it to myself every single ride:

"Hills are my friend and chocolate is good"

it gets me up there like nothing else :D

Another alternative is to live here in Central Illinois...we don't have a hill around here anywhere! :D

Seriously though what emily said is so true, finding that balance is what it's all about...congrats newbiechick on slaying your dragon.

Yes, yes! It is a fine line between spinning too much and mashing on a hill. Spinning in too high a cadence can just burn needless energy. If you mtbike, you learn real fast that you can also loose momentum and traction. With 4 knee ops, I have really stay focused on that small area between abusing my knees from too hard a gear but also just burning out from too high a cadence.

Congrats on finding that very thin line!

I'm such a dork... I never knew how to shift into the "granny gear"... so I have always used the middle chain ring (???... I have 3 total) to go up hills.

I also always challenge myself to NEVER stand up.

Then I focus on the top of the "hill" (I am in Texas)... and just burn it out.


Thanks for tips and happy to hear that you are making it up those hills!

This is a great thread - my lungs give up before my legs do, too - sometimes I just need a few deep breaths - after I get enough air, my legs are willing to keep going. Everything is stronger, but I'm still moving a 200+ lb body up a hill! If I look to the top of the hill, I never make it - I focus about 10 feet ahead and mentally chant - my/legs/are/strong, my/legs/are/strong to my pedal strokes. Usually at the end of my ride, I do a standing climb on the last hill - got nothing else to work with but gravity at that point. Right now, needing to just ride and ride and melt some poundage, I give myself permission to do whatever it takes, figuring finesse will come...eventually.:rolleyes:

I've just (i.e. yesterday) fitted bar ends to my bike (a GT Timberline, which weighs a freakin' tonne), and found that they made a huge - and positive! - difference to the hills I have to climb on my morning commute. :)

On one of our Mt Diablo rides, Veronica and I rode together on the last brutal 17% grade at the top. I found out that she doesn't look up either but she has counted the number of cracks in the pavement (there's one about every 6 feet or so). She started counting out loud that day and, of course, I had to ask. I also focus on keeping my breathing slow and deep or I burn way too much energy with shallow and rapid breathing. I sometimes sing a very slow dirgelike song in my head to keep me breathing at a slow enough pace.

Depends on the hill. If it's a slow upgrade, spinning in the saddle is best. If it is a quick burp (read: big uphill), I'll often start in the saddle and finish out of the saddle. Before standing, I shift to one harder gear - that way I'll always have an easier gear if I need to sit.

It never occurs to me that I wont' get up the hill. When I get out of the saddle, I think of it as dancing on the pedals (I think I got this from a Lance Armstrong book or something).

Another thing - approach the hill as quickly as possible. Momentum is your friend!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KSH

I also always challenge myself to NEVER stand up.

---

why not stand?????????

I think I need to learn to stand more (I'll try the dancing idea...) I just seem to spin my way up...and will confess to using the granny ring still. But my fitness has improved so that I am actually shifting into harder gears as I approach the top, which helps me pull over the top easier and faster....

When I started, I found that my lungs did an almost reflexive big gulp at some point up the hill. But I find that if I sit back in the saddle, loosen my grip and relax my arms and shoulders, everything else follows suit, including my lung capacity and rate of breathing. I also really love hills, so I just imagine that I am Lance and Jan is on my tail... But I do like the mantra that was shared earlier along the lines of "I like hills and chocolate is good" I may try that as needed!

I'm glad that I am not the only one that has the tired lung, strong legs problem. My weekday rides on Tues and Thurs have about 5 miles of good hills. They start small and come one after another. By the time I hit the big one I am completely out of breath. I will have to try the higher gear and sing a nice slow song too. The last time I rode that way was the first time I rode my new bike and I was a little bit intimidated. I still don't have the gears down yet! I know, time and patients!!! :( Just keep reminding my self that Rome was not built in a day!!!

Melody

A cyclist friend of mine also suggested sitting back when going up hill. I've tried this a couple of times--only for seconds--and both times immediately leaned forward again. It just didn't feel natural to me. Maybe I need to just submit myself to trying it all the way up a hill to see if I can get comfortable with it. When I think that it might somehow "open" my lungs, it makes more sense. It just doesn't feel right. Any thoughts, suggestions? Or do I just need to practice it?

Shelley
aka newbiechick

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by newbiechick

A cyclist friend of mine also suggested sitting back when going up hill. I've tried this a couple of times--only for seconds--and both times immediately leaned forward again. It just didn't feel natural to me. Maybe I need to just submit myself to trying it all the way up a hill to see if I can get comfortable with it. When I think that it might somehow "open" my lungs, it makes more sense. It just doesn't feel right. Any thoughts, suggestions? Or do I just need to practice it?

Shelley
aka newbiechick

---

Did she mean "sit more upright" or push your butt back on the saddle? Pushing back on the saddle extends your legs so you use your larger leg and glute muscles to climb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SadieKate

Did she mean "sit more upright" or push your butt back on the saddle? Pushing back on the saddle extends your legs so you use your larger leg and glute muscles to climb.

---

Hmmmm ... maybe I misunderstood what she meant. I'll have to check with her. I'll definitely try your suggestion of pushing back on the saddle. Thanks!

Shelley

Unfortunately, I'm still in the "wussy lungs, wussy legs, too" category. BUT I just keep at it anyway. It's SO fun to feel myself getting stronger.

On the other "hills/affirmations" thread on TE, someone suggested to "pedal in circles". That is what I'm always thinking/chugging as I spin up, and it works for me (thanks, whoever you were :). Hills here are pretty much something I handle on the middle chain ring, considering the "top of hill exertion" a windsprint or interval, or whatever the term may be for kicking my butt for awhile, then riding within my target heart rate range for awhile again till the next hill. And the flight downhill is ALWAYS worth the effort up. ;)

Newbiechick, you have my deepest respect and admiration as you handle southern Indiana hills on a hybrid! You are a magnificent woman!!!! You can sit farther back on the saddle AND sit more upright (you're right, for more lung capacity (upright) and for more hamstring/glut input (farther back), too). Girl, when you DO get that road bike in a year or so, you'll have wings. Keep up the great work! You're incredible!!! :D :D

Good thread! I tackled the longest, steepest hill of my short riding career Saturday before last. It kept going and going and going. I thought we were done until we rounded a curve and :eek: here comes another, oh, quarter of a mile straight up with the sun in your face. I had to really talk to myself so as to not get off the bike. Being mid-divorce, I am focused on being strong, so I said, "You are gutsy, you are strong, you can do it" over and over. Well, it worked, though it's not too poetic or original! :rolleyes:

A more experienced rider also recommended to me sitting more upright and I find it really helps. She said sitting low and aerodynamic isn't going to help you climbing a hill, given that you are putting more weight on the front wheel, thereby digging into the hill. Makes sense. I shift back a little in the saddle, sit more upright and move my hands back closer to the stem. Opens my lungs up, too, and it seems to help me.
:)
Good luck with those hills!

I find myself silently singing "Climb any Mountian" from the Sound of Music or "I Am Woman", I believe it is a Helen Reddy tune? Believe me no one wants to hear me sing out loud! I don't know if it really helps. No mountians in this part of the state, but so far I haven't had to walk up the hills this year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shewhobikes

so I said, "You are gutsy, you are strong, you can do it" over and over. Well, it worked, though it's not too poetic or original! :rolleyes:

---

I think that's a FABULOUS mantra! Who needs poetry when you're workin' your butt off ... I want something succinct and full of power!

Thanks for the kudos. I know I haven't begun to tackle the toughest hills down here yet, but one of these days I will. And with all the great input I'm getting on this thread I trust that I will soon be up to the challenge. :)

It's funny, having never ridden anything but a hybrid, I guess I'm oblivious to my "handicap." My fiance says (in his ever-supportive, ever-modest way), your bike weighs at least 5 pounds more than mine, and you're pushing that much more up the hill!! So sweet of him. :) Of course, I can easily carry an extra 5 pounds the week before my period, so I don't see how 5 pounds of weight is going to make that much difference. :) I guess I'll just look forward to that day I get a road bike and find myself flying effortlessly up every hill. That's the way it will be, right? :wink:

I really do appreciate all the feedback and great advice.

Shelley

Don't know but maybe this will help some of my fellow really new riders with the issue of getting the lungs to open up. In spin classes, we did a good long warm up (my trainer, who just won the PA Master's Championship & is going for the Nationals in IN, is VERRRY serious about warm up, cool down, and stretching) but when I started road riding - I'm facing a hill of some sort almost right away no matter which way I turn out of the driveway. (I ride in eastern PA, any flat land was shipped to the midwest centuries ago). The suggestion was made that before I get on the bike, I go for a short brisk walk to open the lungs and warm the legs. That has really helped, especially in cooler weather.

To the good, as frustrated as I can get with my progress sometimes, today a woman my age thought I was ten years younger than she. I guess I gotta get her on a bike ;)

As I said previously, we don't have any hills here but I was doing a club ride a few years ago in an area that had hills...I gutted my way up this long steep grade and chanted to myself "don't you DARE quit" all the way up. I reached the top and felt utterly spent...then a rotweiler launched himself off the top step of a nearby farmhouse and gave chase...it was amazing what reserves I had left when I felt "spent". :D

I have to admit, I like hills, and I just love the feeling of accomplishment and the feeling of working my body when I go up a good hill. But then again I am terrified of going down hill, which is not good as it is hard to find an uphill where there isn't a downhill. For going up a tough hill the bike guru here suggested holding the top of the handlebars and then just try and be upright and concentrate on pulling up on the pedals and in that way using different muscles to help you up. I definitely find the thought of dancing on the pedals helpful when I have to stand up.
Best
Asa G.

I just tell myself as I am pumping up the hill that if Lance can do it, I can do it.. It always works!

Thanks Jobob for my new one. Strangely enough going down Mt. Diablo is not all downhill, there's this bit which I should know and expect where you go downhill, there's a flat section, turn and then WTF it's uphill again.

Shifted down, missunderestimated but dayuhm I was NOT gonna shift down again because
1) stuborn
2) determined
3) don't like to throw the chain
so I stand and right then jobob comes up behind and says those 2 little words "dig deep".

Not the fastest thing on 2 wheels but I got up and over. Thanks jobob I think I'll keep the mantra.

It replaces what I think Eddie said which goes something like "you're faster going than not going".

Later she blew past me and I say again man, that Riv's a puhrty bike.

Just two words on going "en danseuse" (dancing on the pedals):

1) watch out not to overdo it and end up sliding on the side if you loose proper contact with the road (road tires have a very narrow surface of contact with the pavement)

2) rocking the bike from side to side can make you spend more energy than it will give you.

so rock gently and make sure you strenghten your grip with the hand opposite to the side you're rocking to.

take care ladies!

Well I tried the leg power and did a standing hill. Not so bad! I had to really catch my breath at the top but not like the other day. So it is working! Now we will see on Thursday....

Melody :)

What great tips on this thread! Thought about you all this a.m. as I rode up my 'weekday' hills, about 3/4 of a mile each hill, don't know the grade, but they are split by a stop sign. It seems I loose a little momentum when I have to stop, but I don't dare ride thru, too many cars and I don't want to die. As I go up the hills I find myself counting 1-2-3-4, breath. I used to be really winded when I reached the top, sometimes even dizzy. No more. The second hill also seems easier to achieve than the first. I noticed that if I concentrate on spinning more, I climb at a faster rate. I use the middle ring the whole way. Good luck to you all! (P.S. I hate going downhill too, but love the rest period)

this is a great thread! just wanted to add my own mantra... taken from "It's Not About the Bike"... Lance said "Pain is temporary, quitting lasts forever"... that has helped me get up hills that 3 years ago I would have refused to WALK up! :D

There was a really steep hill on my tri course this weekend, and to be honest, I had a really, really hard time getting up it. I'm not sure if I'm doing this right, so maybe that's part of the problem.

It started with a slight downhill, so I had shifted up into a bigger gear (in back), to keep spinning and ride that momentum. As I started the climb, I stayed seated and downshifted in the rear as it got steeper, until I had no gears left. It was at this point that I didn't know whether to shift into my granny gear, or stand up. Tried standing up (after upshifting one gear). Felt WAY wobbly and like I was in too easy a gear to stand up. So I sat back down, and then shifted into the granny gear, which left me only one gear to go down in the back. Then I lost all momentum. Ugh.

I made it to the top, but barely.

Here is the hill profile (at the bottom of the course).
http://www.firm-racing.com/races/maps/danskin.jpg

Any advice for me? I've read a lot of the linked articles from these boards, but I still feel like I'm doing it all wrong on hills that are steeper, like this one. There aren't a ton of hills like that I have found on my regular routes, so while I am able to stand up and power over smaller hills, when there is a long climb, I'm kinda at a loss.

Thanks.

If I see a hill that I know will require me to use the granny gear, I shift to it in advance and start on the smaller cogs in the back (maybe 3rd smallest out of 10 in my case - I have a 11-23 cassette in the back).

Shifting on the granny when RPMs are already low (in the 60s for me) takes away too much momentum, as you experienced... Plus, the low ratios of the middle gear are equivalent to the highest ratios on the granny gear so you're not compromising much... (Hum not sure this is clear ..... :eek: )

And if I want to stand up on the pedals I upshift two cogs. I try to NEVER go under 8 km/h at which point it's too late for anything to happen anymore!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grog

If I see a hill that I know will require me to use the granny gear, I shift to it in advance and start on the smaller cogs in the back (maybe 3rd smallest out of 10 in my case - I have a 11-23 cassette in the back).

Shifting on the granny when RPMs are already low (in the 60s for me) takes away too much momentum, as you experienced... Plus, the low ratios of the middle gear are equivalent to the highest ratios on the granny gear so you're not compromising much... (Hum not sure this is clear ..... :eek: )

And if I want to stand up on the pedals I upshift two cogs. I try to NEVER go under 8 km/h at which point it's too late for anything to happen anymore!!!

---

WOW :eek: Reading that made me feel about as smart as a bag of hammers.

I guess I really need to learn a thing or two about the gears on my bike! :D

After riding forever in extra-flat NW ohio, I now ride in the hills of south central michigan. I went on my first group ride this spring and was quickly going to be dropped b/c of the hills. 2 nice guys from the group stayed with me. They helped me to get better at hills by explaining that I don't always have to shift up and spin all the way through the downhills (I was trying to use the downhills to catch up w/ everyone), instead, I now use downhills as a time to rest when I find myself on a road that just keeps rolling up and down. I don't know what it says about my form, but I shift down before I meet the hills resistance and often its so early that I can't spin b/c its too loose. I find that in the long run on a steep hill, being in a low gear early helps more than shifting down on the hill.

I can say that going from flat to hilly, I now have a love/hate relationship with the hills, flat's boring now, but hills are tough. I, too, use mantras, one comes from that ditzy fish in Finding Nemo: "just keep spinning, just keep spinning". my other mantra is "i will not shift, i will not shift" (meaning into my granny gear - haven't used it in a month!) :)

I love hills, or our imitation of 'em, maybe because they're such a rare delicacy. (We sort of do have some, Queen, out by Block and towards Alto VIneyards...and wind is just as good a workout...)

I also tend to the bigger gears and until my knees tell me otherwise I"ll stick with what works. If it's a long gradual hill I'll just find a good gear and hang with it. If it's a steep mugger I'll just gradually gear down and try to keep my rhythm... but I can heave & gasp pretty well. If it's a *really* long hill I'll try to keep the gear easy enough to stay under the heaving and gasping level.

I have been known to count off the pedal strokes in waltz time so I'm not pushing harder on one leg all the time. I can always say "Okay, 10 more, of course you can do 10 more." Mantras: One two three .... or the "Punk Polka" ("Jump Jump Jump Jump Up and Down In Place, Drive A Safety Pin INto Your Face, Excuse Me While I leave the Human Race, and Do... the PUnk... Polka)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Queen

WOW :eek: Reading that made me feel about as smart as a bag of hammers.

I guess I really need to learn a thing or two about the gears on my bike! :D

---

Hey! Don't worry! Just do experiments with your gears until you're confident with all of them. Nothing really can explode on your bike. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaz

. I, too, use mantras, one comes from that ditzy fish in Finding Nemo: "just keep spinning, just keep spinning". my other mantra is "i will not shift, i will not shift" (meaning into my granny gear - haven't used it in a month!) :)

---

Groovy. That made me laugh! :D Now I won't be able to stop thinking about that fish (Dorrie was her name, I think) when I'm spinning on a hill. I'm also encouraged by all the people who have transitioned away from the granny gear. I hope to be there soon!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Geonz

(We sort of do have some, Queen, out by Block and towards Alto VIneyards...and wind is just as good a workout...)

---

You're right! I forgot all those highway overpasses. :D

Actually the first ride my SO every convinced me to do was a "C-U Across the Prairie" ride (not sure if it was called that back then?) and it included a 25mph headwind up an overpass...I thought I was gonna die. :p

...and he was in the granny gear, and I wasn't. :cool: Not sure what mantra I was using to pull it off (it was too early to think about chocolate :rolleyes: ), except that I was determined to roar (okay, maybe more like 'breeze') past him on Heartbreak Hill. Thanks for this fun forum!

Hahaha! I love the fact that you passed the guy on "Heartbreak Hill". :D Makes it all the more significant! Poor guy.