winter cyclists - what is the hurdle?

Calling all winter cyclists - and all wannabe winter cyclists! My question is simply: what, to you, is the biggest hurdle to overcome to start cycling in winter? I'm thinking especially of commuters here. Is it the lower temps? More rain and wind? Darker commutes? The need for more gear? Would you rather just do indoor stuff instead, and don't find it worth the hassle? Are you worried about ice, or not being seen?

I'm asking because we have a huge contigent of bike commuters at my workplace right now, but I can see the number dropping off rapidly now that mornings are getting cold. I run our winter bike commuting challenge, and I just now started thinking that it would be fun to try to recruit more people to winter commuting. I'm guessing that many people don't consider themselves "cyclists" and just commute in regular clothing, and get really cold once the temperature drops and they're riding in jeans and office shoes. And I'm also guessing that many people think that winter commuting is really hardcore and you have to have studded tires and really expensive lights and lots of extra gear, whereas in fact in Oslo you can bike for weeks in winter with regular tires and just need some annoying blinkies to be seen.

But you do need - something windproof over your ears and chin, good gloves, warm socks and lights, in addition to normal "winter sportswear", which most Norwegians have for XC skiing. So I'm thinking vaguely of offering a "winter bike shop" for the next two weeks, where I offer to coordinate buying helmet caps, Buffs, gloves and lights, all reasonable entry-level stuff, for the ones who might want to try winter commuting for the first time.

Whaddya think? Would this be a tempting offer to you, that you could come to work, hand over a little cash and be given the basic essentials? Or am I over-simplifying things here?

I think you might hook a few more. I know that my limits are rain, snow, ice, and temps below 35 F. If I had a short commute, I might be able to ride down to 30, as I have the gear. I think that Voodoo Sally said it best on another thread. Once the roads around here get snow on them, there is a lot of junk on the side of the road; sand, salt, snow/ice piles that make riding dangerous and difficult. People do it, but to me, it's not worth it. If there's a day in the high 30s or the 40s, I might go out and ride my mountain bike on the road, or even my hybrid for a spin, but I actually look forward to having a break from riding, to concentrate on x country skiing and snow shoeing.

slippery roads are the only thing that keep me from riding... nothing else.

For me, darkness is the big factor. I have oodles of cold-weather gear, and will ride during the day on cold days, but I admit to being intimidated by certain sections of my commute when it's dark. DH is too...we've talked about it a bunch lately, and I'm trying to convince him to keep commuting with me. It will be light riding home until November...after that, it's dark and time will tell whether we keep riding.

I think your idea sounds like a great one! Sometimes people don't want to invest a lot of energy in researching something, and will gladly contribute some money to have the decision-making process simplified. I've certainly felt that way many times! Let us know how it goes!

I think it's a bit of both as posted...

One, having good proper gear makes a HUGE differce. When I first starting riding in general, it was shocking at what techical clothing costs. But, I've tried it without it--just ugly. Once you own it--totally worth it. So, your idea is a good one.

I agree with Crankin too about the snow and ice. There are many days it will be beautiful enough for me to ride, and the gear I own can handle it, but I don't want to crash on that unexpected patch of black ice, or unmelted snow outta no where... and land into traffic.

Well, I guess the only other good cold gear thing I do not own is some different tires, and boots. If Mavic only made my beloved shoes that fit my goofy shaped feet in boots, I'd be buying *sigh*. But, I digress...

Maybe some winter bike handling skills / tips would be helpful too? And something like "best thing to clean road salt off your bike tip, etc.".

Could you distributed an office water cooler survery... "winter riding--what's your show stopper???".

Good luck, lph! Sounds like a good project.:)

I've had a few hurdles. I've ridden all winter for a couple of years, but this will be my first year commuting in the winter. For me, it's the dark. I've bought the lights and have been easing into a darker commute. So far, so good.

At first, the cold was my hurdle to winter riding. I was so surprised to discover I actually prefer extreme cold to extreme heat. Who knew?!

I still won't do snow or ice. I could see someday getting studded tires and getting over that hurdle, but it will have to be once I'm totally confident in the dark.

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Originally Posted by lph

Whaddya think? Would this be a tempting offer to you, that you could come to work, hand over a little cash and be given the basic essentials? Or am I over-simplifying things here?

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I think people would want to have things "oversimplified" -- one of the biggest barriers is probably not wanting to research / figure out how to set up for commuting in the winter. Another added bonus is "buying into" the winter commuting. If someone spends the money on the package, and there is a whole group of people for "positive peer pressure," that person will more likely commute at least some of the time during the winter.

A workshop on setting up bike and self for winter commuting would also be good. That way people could get standard information efficiently, decide whether to buy the package, and get any questions answered.

Biggest concerns for me: mechanical failures, especially (canti) brakes icing over. Best setup for bike for different weather conditions (skinny tires vs. studded tires for one). Whether to ditch rear derailleur (I don't have a front one) -- internal hub, fixed gear, or single speed -- leaning towards fixed gear which can also help with brake problems. Alternate means of getting home if weather is too bad to ride back home, or if there is an emergency. (Here we can get a couple emergency coupons for a taxi, bus, or light rail every six months.) Keeping batteries charged in cold weather. Lowest temperature / worst weather I can reasonably commute in with my current gear (hoping for 0F, medium snow, moderately heavy rain).

Snow (which we don't get much of) and particularily black ice is a hurdle. In the winter, I tend to bike regularily on weekends when there's daylight..even though I do have bike lights. I like to see alot more ahead of me in advance where I'm going and if will hit an icy patch. However will do short distances during the wk. if it's dry.

I cycle in temp. down to approx. -5 to -10 degrees C. I cut down my distances to under 20 kms. per ride.

After all, we don't have a car and there are certain errands to be done by bike.

If I really spent more effort to wear/buy certain clothing to be alot warmer, it still wouldn't solve the problem of fear of snow/ice. Don't have studded tires. Probably will not get them.

Maybe you could partner up with a local outdoor apparel/sportswear store on the clothing side.
Offer a group lunch hr. short bike ride..so that people can try it together. A pre-Christmas ride might kick in the spirit with hot chocolate afterwards. (is hot chocolate typically Norwegian???) Would I join in such ride --sure!

I've been at a workplace where during Bike to Work Week, there was an organized group bike ride in a lovely local park nearby with a path. 8 people in the group. But this was in the late spring.

The only thing that will stop me from riding is snow and ice. It's amazing how drivers go bezerk here when there's a little bit of snow on the ground. We're not use to having snow and to top it off, our city's snow removal program is not the best. They will plow the main road but not the side road. And because our temperature is always just below freezing, we have the thrawing and re-freezing on the road, making it very dangerous to ride on, or drive on for that matter. The road would have a thin fresh layer of snow but it's packed with black ice underneath. I think I would rather snowshoe to work on those days.

But if your city doesn't have that problem and riding studded tires would help, I would definately try that.

And I find the most important is proper clothing. Warm gloves and headbands are a must for me. AND FENDERS!!! I can't say how much that has helped me staying dry. Who knew front fenders would do so much wonder!

The changing road surfaces scare me, but I'm terrified by the out of control motorists!

We truly can ride year round here. Sure, it gets cold, rainy, hail (no snow) but Winter mornings can be ideal. It's going home in the dark, My route has some isolated bits.

I could ride to work then throw Bradley (my tank of a commuter bike) on the bus which goes direct from train to home.

Not knowing EXACTLy which winter gear (clothes mostly) I need/would most benefit from. (Yes, people have differing opinions on this...but, some gear set ups (like ones made for cycling!) are better than others).

Then, in the past when I bike to work (4 miles) (with some appropriate gear---good cycling wind breaking outershell, winter gloves that I have determined suck) etc..... I FREEZE. Or, parts of my freeze. (I end up with red hands that are FROZEN for far too long afterwards. (Keep in mind my circulation sucks, and my skin is super sensitive). But, I also end up with massive dry-peely face. This year, I'm thinking about biking with my winter ski goggles and neck warmer pulled up to them.... at least to avoid the face pain. :)

And, I plan on buying better gloves and more actual winter gear....((Which would be awesome to have someone giving a workshop on to get informatioN!!!) Props to you!

Onix - since your commute is short, reusable hand warmers might be just the trick for your cold fingers. There are these http://www.rei.com/product/608751 , but I think I've seen some that you can throw in the microwave. They tend to be a bit bulky compared to the disposable ones, but if you put them on top of your hands they shouldn't affect your dexterity too much. Also, wear a glove liner, then the warmer, then a glove for safety - no warmer directly on your skin - and maximum effectiveness.

I'm a year round commuter. We also have pretty mild winter weather around here, so I don't have much beside rain and dark to contend with. Only deep snow (when its up to my hubs I just can't go anywhere.... and when we do get snow it tends to be the sticky heavy stuff) and widespread ice will keep me off the streets. My very first commute to my current job was in a monsoon.... kept a lot of people who drove from even getting to work...

lph- I think that's a great idea! I think if you had some of the best, most basic things to help winter commuters get going- it might entice some of them to get out and ride more.

The cold is the biggest issue for me (duh- it's winter). Toes and fingers get so cold that it's uncomfortable. I've tried many different gloves and socks and no luck. Maybe offer some really good toe and finger options for people.

Good on ya for getting this together!! :) Let us know what you do and how it turns out.

Toes - if you are really serious about riding all winter long and want to keep your clipless pedals invest in some winter riding shoes. I have pair of winter Sidis that I love. I wear them with liner socks and thick wool socks (I kind of have to.... they don't really come small enough for me..), and will add toe warmers when it is very cold.

Fingers - much harder, but smartwool glove liners with a nice thick windproof glove over the top, also adding hand warmers when it is really cold. I still have problems with achy, burning fingers sometimes, but this helps.

It also helps your extremities to keep your core nice and warm - you body won't be trying to steal all of that blood to keep your organs warm, so wear a base layer and windproof layer.

What a great thread!

My big hurdle last year was the cold. I was all set with lights and warm clothes, but then I got the flu over Thanksgiving, which in turn triggered some cold-induced asthma, which had not been an issue for me in many years. I was not able to get my lungs clear all winter.

Hoping I can acclimate myself to the cold air a bit better this year, but the temps have been dropping quickly here!

I'd say temperature regulation is a problem that hits before street condition and darkness. Even before it's too dark and too slippery for most people to ride, there is the issue of keeping one's body temperature adequate: not too hot, not too high.

In my personal experience, this has required a lot of experimentation, and I'm still experimenting. But I take it for granted that I'll have a shower at destination, so I don't mind if I get too hot. If I was cycling in the plain clothes that I wear through my work day, I'd be a lot more reluctant to keep doing it when the conditions change.

Here there is also the added problem of rain.

But, if a lot of your co-workers have only a short distance to commute (less than 5 km) I'm sure you can convince them to try it.

Thanks for all the positive feedback :)

I'm leaning towards a 2 or 3-part article on our intranet pages - 1. introduction to winter biking, covering just the basics and how to ride comfortably down to 0 deg C, with maybe an option to buy the basics through me, - 2. intro to riding below freezing: studded tires, good specialized winter biking clothing (tights, jackets, winter shoes) and maybe - 3. useful tips for riding down to -15 C, which is about as cold as it gets here, thermo shoe covers, lobster gloves, how to protect your face, winter maintenance tips.

It's taken me several winters of regular commuting to figure out what works best for me, so I'm thinking this could be useful to pass on to others. I have to be a bit careful about getting preachy, though ;) I can't stand wearing waterproof stuff unless I really have to, for instance, but I pass people every day wearing expensive Goretex shells in dry, sunny weather :confused: so I have to assume opinions differ.

I readily admit to being a winter wuss. I don't like driving in winter weather let alone cycling in it. My greatest concern is snow accumulation. We get a lot of it here. Picturing just my street, it's challenging enough in good weather as cars get parked on either side and it's difficult for cars to pass safely at times. The street narrows once the snows arrive and it gets plowed to the sides of the road (if we're lucky) and with cars parked next to the snowbanks (a bit further out than before) it's even more of a challenge to be able to ride safely. :(

Darkness isn't really an issue in Belgium... every street has streetlights...

I never have cold or cold feet for that matter. ;)

Awesome thread.

Snow/ice keep me off the bike, but that's not something we get all that much of. The bigger obstacle is the wind. I've biked down to 5 F on a calm day, but if the wind is 20mph or more and the temp is very much under freezing, it's just too much for me. And we get a fair bit of wind in the winter here.

What I've worked hardest to do is find ways to keep hands and feet warm. Multiple layers of gloves/mittens help a lot. For my feet, I have a fantastically warm pair of boots, with room for multiple layers of socks, but they're so huge that I have to take my toe clips off.

Then there's the problem of my glasses fogging up; haven't really figured that one out yet. But who really needs to see where they're going, anyway?

Snow and ice definitely will keep me from riding outdoors. One wipeout on a black ice covered bridge taught me a lesson on that!

Last year, I decided that it wasn't worth riding outside when it's really cold---say below 20-25 degrees. I ride for endurance, so I'm usually out for 90 minutes or longer. In those types of temps, even the best winter gear doesn't cut it when you're out for extended periods.

I will cut my mileage some when it gets into the 30s, however. Like Crankin, I'm now cross training more and expect to be doing more of other athletic activities that I enjoy when it's too miserable to ride outside. Winter ends and there will be plenty of comfortable riding on dry pavement come spring.

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Originally Posted by papaver

Darkness isn't really an issue in Belgium... every street has streetlights...

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You are very fortunate indeed. Some of the darkest sections of my commute are the most urban sections, where the city can't be bothered (or can't afford) to fix the broken streetlights.

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Originally Posted by skhill

Then there's the problem of my glasses fogging up; haven't really figured that one out yet.

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I've had reasonably good luck with a lens-cleaning product called "Cat Crap". It seems to help with the fogging, although I still pull my glasses away from my face at traffic lights to avoid excessive fogging.

Quite often for a cold-outside-ride I end up too bundled up or not quite warm enough. I quit worrying about it though when I realized that I am often over or under dressed for fall or spring rides too; it seems like the only time I get it right is when I'll be cold no-matter-what or hot no-matter-what.

I'm bumping this one up as well - I see I asked almost the same thing last year at this point :)

There are a lot of good points here. Feel free to add anything else!

Last year I ended up writing a starter guide for our intranet pages as mentioned, and bought a batch of thin wool helmet liners for resale. Very little feedback on the guide, though, so I'm not sure that's what people needed.

I saw my response from last year; I want to add that my temperature threshold seems to be going down (I rode in 32-34 this week) and dark is no longer an issue. But the ice and snow, yes. My friend broke his hip last March, riding through a puddle on an AM commute, cornering, and skidding out, because the water he rode through was frozen (it had been down to 27 F that morning). I freaked out yesterday on my way home from any early AM ride, because some idiots on Barrett's Mill Rd. had their sprinklers on and the water had runout in the street. It was in the high thirties, but, still.
Again, I have the gear, clothing wise, but I don't have studded tires. I still would rather be x country skiing or snow shoeing when it's winter. If I get a job that is with a 7-8 mile commute when I graduate, I will consider commuting as much of the year as I can, but I am pretty sure snow and ice will still stop me.

I'm going to give a go to winter riding this year, my first attempt. I'm asking for studded tires for Christmas--for my hard tail mountain bike. There's a gravel road race in March that I really want to do, so winter training will be a must.

I'm thinking of taking off my clipless pedals and putting on flat pedals with toe clips so that I can wear warm shoes/boots when I ride. I'm also going to order a really large box of toe-warmers.

The biggest problem for me last year was that winter was always busy, so trying to get rides in was the issue. That and the dark. I like riding in the mornings because it's not so busy, but trying to do that in winter isn't easy.

Now, it's the weather. Cleveland is colder (to a point) and wetter than Cincinnati, so if it gets below freezing, the road surfaces get interesting. Cleveland also gets a lot more snow thanks to the lake, so there's that to consider. While the roads near me last year were well-plowed and salted due to the proximity to a hospital, I don't know that that will be the case this year.

of course snow is rarely a problem here; but the combo that does it for me is rain AND dark. I am afraid of not being seen; and rain adds to the discomfort..
I rode today; it was dark, the streets are wet, but it was clear out. Car window visibility is very important to me.

I think that's fantastic of you to do this for your co-workers. One of my biggest obstacles was mental. As a grad student, I was afriad that I would have to shell out really large sums of cash for fancy bike specific winter gear, but with a few exceptions, I've found that my regular winter gear works fine. I ride flat mtb pedals, so my normal winter boots work fine with a small saddle adjustment to compensate for the thicker soles. I already had some of those tech pants that are fuzzy and made out of pop bottles (can't remember the fabric name right now) And regular winter coat and my skiing mittens work fine, although I am lusting over the lobster gloves, I haven't really been able to justify the expense yet. Last year I only rode until christmas, and gave up because I couldn't figure out how to make my eyes stop watering and then freezing from the wind, and how to get my glasses to stop fogging due to the balaclava redirecting my breath upwards. This year I've purchased a pair of ski goggles to fit over my prescription glasses, and those along with a pair of waterproof panniers are my only specific purchases for winter bike commuting. I think if you are compiling a list of gear, it might be helpful to highlight what a quality bike specific item does, and what a substitution from normal winter gear could be, if finances are an issue. That way people could decide which items it was most important to invest in right away, and what items they can borrow from their normal winter gear.

Oh, I also think you idea of middle(wo)man-ing the purchase of gear is a great Idea, and I would use that if someone did it at my job. Maybe you could make the gear guide a little like a sushi menu, with a column on the far right for people to check off specific items that you would be willing to acquire in bulk (like like gloves or the lights).

I don't commute, because its a 37 mile round trip. I would like to ride as long as possible(here in Michigan). I think my biggest obstacle is going to be the colder temps. I think I have enough clothing, except for my hands and feet. Riding certain areas in the dark I'm not excited about - I will probably do an out and back route, rather than a dark bike trail.

I can do wet OR Ican do cold, but I can't do both. Unfortunately, that is usually what we get around here.

I would say probably snow stops me more than anything. Cold I can deal with usually. My commute is short only 3 miles each way but since I moved I have some steep hills to contend with so I'm not sure how that's going to play into things when we get the first snow. All I know is last year the entire east coast was shut down, I REALLY hope it's not another winter like that. :eek: I have all the winter gear but for this short of a commute I dunno if I will want to drag it all out for 3 miles. To be honest, I've been trying to come up with a good method of getting to school by running. The whole book issue is a pain in the butt! I have a small locker at school which I've debating on using and leaving my books there on a couple of nights per week. I can comfortably handle 5 miles of running now so I figure 6 should be doable especially broken up into to 3 milers. It's just the logistics are never in my favor. :rolleyes:

I have never minded exercising in the rain as long as my hands and feet stay warm and my face doesn't get too wet. I think I like riding in the rain because it makes me focus on my riding. I also have a major aversion to riding on my trainer or rollers,I have too many distractions and I hate the gym. Riding in the dark is a trip once I got used to it,but I can see how it could freak some people out. I think what you are doing is pretty neat. I wish more people I work with rode good luck!

I can answer my own question too, actually:

I've (finally) learnt that wet falling snow is, and should be, a showstopper. Bikes do not work well when packed with wet snow, bike riders do not function well when cold and wet, traffic is dangerous. Extreme cold (defined as anything I don't already have gear for :D ) is fun to ride in, a little scary if you have to stop, but usually dry and fairly easy as such, even though you spend a lot of time in just 2 or 3 gears. Heavy rain I don't like, the bike works fine but needs maintenance afterwards. Passable, just not much fun.

What shouldn't be a showstopper around here is (fallen) snow. Even though the snowplows take days, weeks or months sometimes to do my local roads properly, the bike path 300 yards away is more often than not freshly plowed. So even if I may have to carry my bike down there, it's good sailing from there on. Finding good bike routes is crucial to a good winter commute, though, the neato little shortcuts I use in summer can be inaccessible and some of the regular roads can be dangerously narrow.