Did you know the wings are real?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...fly-wings.html
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Did you know the wings are real?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...fly-wings.html
I didn't. I don't know that I'd want to ride a bike like that. I'd be a little creeped out.
But I wonder if these people are offended at the millions of insects slaughtered every day because they're considered to be pests. I wonder if those acts would be called "horrific" and "bararic". Why do so many animal rights people only care about the pretty or cute animals?
They're surprised that this isn't what Lance stands for, but... is Lance vegetarian? Vegan? Is the seat on his bike leather?
Don't get me wrong. I couldn't stand fishing as a child not only because of the pain inflicted on the fish by the hook, but because I couldn't stand hurting and drowning the worms. (To be honest, though, I did do it because I enjoyed spending time with Dad.) I'm bothered by the butterflies stuck by pins for collections, and I'm bothered by people who beat snakes to death just because they don't like snakes. (My hypocrisy is that I'm OK eating fish/meat/fowl... so long as someone else does the killing.)
But back to my point: It's the hypocrisy in arguments like this that gets me. It's always about the cute and pretty creatures. Why? Would people be bothered if it was covered by the wings of flies? Maybe they would, but I'd be surprised.
I hadn't actually been keeping up with the bike painting honestly, but cool.
I don't see what the controversy is (other than PETA loves controversy and is completely off it's rocker). The butterflies are dead, likely dead of natural causes (the things don't live that long so it's not that hard to "farm" them and still allow them to live full natural lives), so what's the big deal? Now if it was known that he was killing the butterflies or worse, pulling the wings off live butterflies that would be different, but I didn't see any mention of either case in the articles.
I think his shark is awesome too (assuming, again that the shark wasn't killed for this purpose). Would "we" (collective we) be offended if the shark was an exhibit in a Natural History Museum instead of "art"?
I agree with Martian - Butterflies, especially the ones that were "plastered" over the bike, are very common types, they only live for a couple weeks then they just die.
The collectors just collect the dead ones, or capture the good ones for a while, and wait until nature takes it's course. It does take a LOT of butterflies to find really good wings as they are fragile. However, putting it on a bike can raise eyebrows...there's the always "what ifs" - what if the butterflies were killed, what if they were still alive when the wings are plucked, etc etc.
No offense to Lance, but I find the bike a little too "girly". :-)
What are the other custom bikes that Lance rode?
I didn't know they were real and honestly, I think it's kind of gross, but whatever.
I'd like to know how all those butterfly-loving-PETA-supporting-vegans feel about the pesticides that make the veggies they eat possible? Hmmmm? And do they kill a mosquito if it's sucking on their arm? Or how about the ant crawling across their kitchen counter? And how will they ever live with themselves if they ever get stung by a honey bee? OMG - the horror of it all! :rolleyes:
The rest of the "Stages" bikes are here:Quote:
Originally Posted by CyborgQueen
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/stages/
LOL! This reminded me of a show Verminators. A group of vegans lived in a house that was badly infected by rats. The best way to get the rats is to use the Alligator clamps or whatever they're called (I MUCH prefer fast kill over than liquid or glue traps...I always feel so bad if they have to struggle to die), anyways...the Vegans were so upset about it and they rather have them live trapped instead....that will take over a year, not accounting for more babies, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by GLC1968
So, they came with a compromise, the verminator has to become vegan for two weeks until all the rats were gone, and he can kill however he wants.
While there's pests every corner of the world, and I'm guilty of killing a few, but there are times when I see a spider making a beautiful web inside my home, I would just take it outside. We cannot save every single animal on this earth. It's the Circle of Life. (Gawd, I sound like a Disney movie, now what movie was that? :p)
If PETA would focus their time and resources on animals rights issues that actually mattered instead of creating inconsequential lightning rods, animals would be better off and the citizens of the world only half as irritated by PETA as they are now.
That said, damn, I love that bike. Wouldn't ride it, but it's a fascinating work of art. If it fetches the expected $1 million at auction this fall, then LIVESTRONG wins big.
If it's Damien Hirst, no one should be surprised that they are real butterfly wings. But as others have said--what's the big deal? I doubt very much that he was ripping them off live butterflies.
Sarah
The one thing that can be said about most PETA types is that they are nearly always consistent--they are going to eat veggies grown without pesticides, they are going to let that mosquito do it's business and get on it's way, and they will use humane traps to catch any bugs in their house. All of this I know from vegan/PETA people I've met, but I've never asked about the bee sting thing. I know they don't have a problem with a death that happens in the natural order of things, and I suspect that bee stings would fall under that category (although by the same token they'd go out of their way to not piss off a bee).Quote:
Originally Posted by GLC1968
Sarah
If they care about the honeybees that are abused to pollinate many crops, what is there left to eat?Quote:
Originally Posted by sfa
Sorry, but if you take veganism to it's 'logical' conclusion, it becomes completely untenable. And, yes, I think PETA is run by idiots. I don't understand why seemingly (I guess "seemingly" explains it) intelligent celebrities do ads for PETA. I wouldn't touch that stinking pile of an organization with a 10 foot pole.
Steps off soapbox...
Kinda like Critical Mass.
not sure what to think of the butterfly bike. Is it even worth discussing the merits.
Is it art? not sure
is it shock art? perhaps. but then again I'm not an artist and can't give any intelligble thought on the matter.
As for cruelty issue?
first of all, I'm not too keen on PETA. They lack few things but seem to make up for it in their determination to be heard, to make spectacle of themselves... If you do any life cycle analysis (LCA for short) and use PETA's argument, then we do not belong on this planet.
But back to the cruelty issue. Will the "art" undermine the efforts of endangered species act, animal rights, wildlife preservation or does it highlight the plight? I don't know.
Personally, I would call this thing shock art at best, equivalent to a photo art of crucifix swirrling in a toilet bowl. Something Ronnie blasted while in office.
bike is non-sequitor for me. yawnnnn....
Wow, not sure what all the vegan-bashing is about, but I guess I'll just move on to another thread...
Quite a bit left to eat--you can run a subsistence vegetarian farm that doesn't rely on "kept" bees.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilima
I'm not a PETA member or a vegan or a vegetarian and I'm not going to spend a lot of time defending them (because in many ways I agree that they take things to extremes. How do they feel about antibiotics I always wonder?), but they ARE consistent.
Sarah
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfa
I agree some are, and certainly they can be, but many are not. I've met people who are either members of PETA or have given money to them that keep dogs, cats, horses, etc as pets. They have no idea what PETA as an organization actually stands for.
I've also met vegetarians that didn't think beyond the obvious and were not consistent in their reasons. I met one a few weeks ago that bought kosher meat (apparently for friends, bbq's, her dog, but not her) because she thought kosher meant the animals were slaughtered more humanely (her personal big reason for being vegetarian). She had no clue what the different slaughtering practices were, and when I told her she was horrified that she hadn't bought "normal" meat.
Far more often than not I run into people who are not consistent/non-hypocritical than do I meet those who are, and it seems the more extreme they get and the more they pitch fits at others the less likely they are to be consistent.
Not that I feel you need to be consistent in your reasons, or even have a reason, to make a life choice that affects you and you alone. Do what you want, and more power to you, IMO. Just don't act holyier than thou and like I'm scum of the Earth and I'll gladly return the favor, thanks ;)
I took it as PETA-bashing, not vegan bashing. But then I just skimmed.Quote:
Originally Posted by divingbiker
I was poking fun at PETA, not at vegans. Sorry. I just assume that all PETA people are vegans, but I certainly don't assume that all vegans support PETA.Quote:
Originally Posted by divingbiker
+1Quote:
Wow, not sure what all the vegan-bashing is about, but I guess I'll just move on to another thread...
There's nothing wrong of being mindful of where your food, especially meat, is coming from and how it gets to your table. How we use animals in our culture is very telling of our culture, I think. Wasn't it Gandhi who said you can judge a society by how it treats its animals?
Some of my best friends are vegan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc4O6v74obs
But seriously if the artist's aim was to express the transformational nature of Lance from cancer patient to TdF winner like a butterfly that could have been done without actual wings. Would it be better without? Maybe.
i think my favorite of the Stages bikes is the Yoshitomo Nara! I wonder how much they'll be going for...(dream, dream)
Well, at least someone else said what I think...
When I was a kid, I collected butterflies and mounted them.
I fully admit to barely being able to stand being around any animal.
Seriously - everyone who is VEGAN - I am totally not bashing you at all!!Quote:
Originally Posted by lunacycles
Please understand (and yes, I am taking this a little personally) - I am so concerned about where my meat and animal products come from that I have changed my entire life and I'm now working my fingers to the bone so that I can produce this stuff myself (from happy, healthy, well-treated animals). I am the LAST person who would be putting someone down for this!!
Let me say again that I was poking fun at PETA zealots. I was NOT poking fun at those who choose not to eat meat/animal products.
Actually, for me it was more "certain animal rights activists" bashing. ;) Vegans are consistent, and PETA is often consistent. But somehow it's always the cute and/or fluffy animals that get defended in public uproars.Quote:
Originally Posted by divingbiker
If I'm not mistaken I believe Lance has a collection of this artist's work.