Doping in the TDF

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07-26-2009, 07:54 AM
VeloVT

Doping in the TDF

Why haven't we heard anything about it? There has been complete silence on Versus. I remember in previous years, in addition to hearing about it when people tested positive, there was general reporting on testing procedures, etc... Not this year. You would think no one was getting tested.

I know they are using biological passports and all that, but presumably they are still doing some testing each stage, no? Did they (UCI, ASO etc) make a decision not to release any results until the race was over, and thus no press spectacles of riders getting sent home, just results getting tossed after the fact?

Anyone know the lowdown? I find it impossible to believe that NO ONE has been doping this year.
07-26-2009, 08:18 AM
Tri Girl

I've heard them mention testing this year. One day they were talking about how Lance was one of the random subjects selected to be tested. It seems to me that the race is clean this year (hard to believe, I know).
I'm glad there's not as many problems as in years past. I'm hoping that they've cleaned up the race (but you KNOW it's still going on because racers were busted before it even began). Maybe they're just not doing it as much, or have figured out ways around it that the tests aren't catching.

Either way- I'm glad to not be hearing about it every stinkin' day. :)
07-26-2009, 10:21 AM
alpinerabbit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tri Girl

I've heard them mention testing this year. One day they were talking about how Lance was one of the random subjects selected to be tested. It seems to me that the race is clean this year (hard to believe, I know).

Yeah right. Bernard Kohl pointed to a drug that no one is talking about, and I swear they're all taking it: it's called Geref, there's no test for it and it is a growh hormone stimulator.

Clean indeed. all of them.
07-26-2009, 10:25 AM
Tri Girl

that's why I said it's hard to believe. I also said they may have figured out ways around it that the tests aren't catching.
I find it hard to believe it's clean. I don't think the sport will ever be. There will always be cheaters. Always.
I was just saying what I *hope* was true: that it was indeed clean.
07-26-2009, 11:11 AM
Skierchickie

The other day Lance said he'd been tested 11 times so far during this tour.
07-26-2009, 11:47 AM
BabyBlueNTulsa

If a drug is not on the "banned" list, is taking it "cheating" ?

I'm not advocating drugs....Just sayin....
07-26-2009, 12:15 PM
alpinerabbit

Then every time they take some aspirin, or ointment for the bruises they sustain, they would be cheating. I guess it's not.

My DBF has access to this pharma site with info on drugs in development, and there are probably dozens of things out there that you can dope with that no one is talking about.
07-26-2009, 01:07 PM
MartianDestiny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tri Girl

I don't think the sport will ever be. There will always be cheaters. Always.

I don't think ANY professional level sport will ever be 100% clean. Cycling is not a unique, or even a drastic example. Doesn't make it right, but no point in harping on cyclists over any other pro athlete.

I've also seen Lance's reports of being tested throughout the tour (on Twitter) and I don't particularly follow my Twitter feed very closely or often, so NO DOUBT they're testing. Well, no doubt their testing at least a few individuals...
07-26-2009, 01:26 PM
lunacycles

I think part of the issue as to why no busts during the tour is that, sadly (cynically?), the drugs are evolving and the tests to detect them have to play catch up. I hear the new, "improved" version of EPO, called CERA, takes longer to detect in tests, hence why DiLuca was just busted for using it during the Giro. It will be interesting to see how clean this tour was considered to be in a few months, or a few years.

I agree, though, it is nice to not have the distraction while the race is going on. And, overall, the riders seemed more "human" on the big hill stages, no super repeated accelerations or superman efforts that raise eyebrows (or, not as many!).
07-26-2009, 01:33 PM
Tri Girl

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartianDestiny

I don't think ANY professional level sport will ever be 100% clean. Cycling is not a unique, or even a drastic example. Doesn't make it right, but no point in harping on cyclists over any other pro athlete.

I wasn't harping on cyclists. I didn't mention other pro athletes because we weren't talking about other pro athletes, but you're right: there are plenty of other pros that cheat- not just cyclists.
07-26-2009, 01:38 PM
spazzdog

Just posted this in the other TdF thread, and while the one response I got (so far) concerned the fruitlessnes of comparing due to difference in courses, I think it's a valid observance. I mean one expects shorter times over shorter courses but...

My post:

With the past "enhancement" contoversies and this years LeMond pissiness re: Contador, I got to thinking (always dangerous)... so I pulled out my stats from past tours and looked at distance/time (total) of each champion's last win compared to this year. Here's what I got - tell me what you think (be nice . I have a little trouble with math & time )

Lance 2005 3608 km/86:15:02 2009 3459.5 km/85:53:59
He was about 21min 2sec faster this yr over a course 148.5 km shorter

Contador 2007 3550 km/91:00:23 2009 3459.5 km/85:48:35
He was about 5hr 12min faster this yr over a course 90.5 km shorter

Sastre 2008 3558.5 km/87:52:52 2009 3459.5 km/86:14:56
He was about 1hr 38 min faster this yr over a course 99 km shorter

Now I know I didn't include "difficulty" in this - I don't know how. That aside, do any of these look "interesting" in the "improvement" category?

I'm just sayin'...

your ever-lovin' spazzdog
07-26-2009, 01:41 PM
papaver

as I replied in the other thread, you really can't compare because this tour was not as difficult as previous editions.
07-26-2009, 01:48 PM
spazzdog

I hear you papaver... I do. I have no info on the difficulty rating of any of the courses (at least I dont think I do), so I by no means believe your point is invalid. You very well may be 100% correct.
07-26-2009, 01:54 PM
papaver

Quote:

Originally Posted by spazzdog

I hear you papaver... I do. I have no info on the difficulty rating of any of the courses (at least I dont think I do), so I by no means believe your point is invalid. You very well may be 100% correct.

Let's say that there are 3 races with lots of wind, that can make 10km/h difference on a race... you really don't have enough parameters to compare.
07-26-2009, 11:21 PM
Eden

I agree with Papaver. It is entirely impossible to compare one year's tour with another. Not only are the distances different, the number and difficulties of the climbs change, the weather conditions change, the race conditions change. Just how motivated the sprinters teams are to keep the pace high on the flat stages could make a HUGE difference in the total time a TDF takes a particular rider to finish the whole tour without having anything at all to do with that rider personally - he was just staying in the pack... Even if you were to somehow find the same stage from different years and try to compare it wouldn't work - it all depends on what the tactics were for the day - sometimes they ride very hard, but at other times they intentionally slow it down. The only time you'll find any one rider ride all out every time is for a TT - and then only if they are looking to either win it or keep/better their overall position (even in a TT, sometimes the pure climbers/sprinters and domestiques will only do enough to not be time cut...)
07-27-2009, 01:50 AM
ilima

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyBlueNTulsa

If a drug is not on the "banned" list, is taking it "cheating" ?

I'm not advocating drugs....Just sayin....

I believe WADA's code has language to describe what drugs do, not just the names of specific drugs. For example, anything that "Artificially enhancing the uptake, transport or delivery of oxygen" is banned. Anabolic steroids are listed as "including but not limited to."

So, the language allows for new stuff that's developed.
07-27-2009, 01:01 PM
Tri Girl

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilima

For example, anything that "Artificially enhancing the uptake, transport or delivery of oxygen" is banned.

One day Phil and Paul said they wouldn't allow a rider to use his inhaler for his asthma (well, I guess they would allow it, but then he'd be banned for taking a banned substance). I guess that falls under the "artificially enhancing the uptake, transport or delivery of oxygen." That's rough.
07-27-2009, 01:46 PM
ilima

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tri Girl

One day Phil and Paul said they wouldn't allow a rider to use his inhaler for his asthma (well, I guess they would allow it, but then he'd be banned for taking a banned substance). I guess that falls under the "artificially enhancing the uptake, transport or delivery of oxygen." That's rough.

Alessandro Petacchi was famously banned for several months because he took too big of a hit off his inhaler after the stage. He was allowed to use the inhaler, but the level in his blood was too high.

The Italian federation chalked it up to human error, but CAS overruled that and really screwed him over, IMO.
07-27-2009, 01:54 PM
Aggie_Ama

My thought is the Alps being on the back this year may have something to do with it. They are the harder range, I think they may have some pop up later. Also they are saying (per Cyclingnews, sorry no link) there are some new drugs they are developing tests on. They also think there was blood doping but I think that is very hard to catch if they are trying to cover it. There were a few guys that never seemed to have a day to rest, but performed amazing on the hardest stages. That just seems a little hard to believe but they are professionals, right?
07-27-2009, 02:25 PM
SadieKate

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tri Girl

One day Phil and Paul said they wouldn't allow a rider to use his inhaler for his asthma (well, I guess they would allow it, but then he'd be banned for taking a banned substance). I guess that falls under the "artificially enhancing the uptake, transport or delivery of oxygen." That's rough.

Romain Feillu - he had to withdraw from the TdF because of it.