Bad Bike Shop Experience - Long

Yesterday I flew in to Seattle from Boston for the STP. My bike arrived at the house via FedEx five minutes before I did, and it looked mostly undamaged. Further investigation revealed a shattered carbon fiber water bottle holder :( but no other damage aside from a valve failure on the rear wheel when I put air in. I put the bike together fairly quickly and took it to Bothell Bike & Ski to have them look it over so it didn't fall apart under me somewhere along the ride.

When I got there, I told them, "Could you check the brakes and get them to not rub?" because I have disc brakes and can never take a wheel off and then put it on again without it rubbing horrendously. I also said I'd wait around, because I wanted to ride a bit today to stretch out the 7-hour plane flight kinks. They said OK, it would take about 20 minutes.

It took an hour and a half. The kid (who can't have been out of high school) who started working on my bike took one look at the brake pads and freaked out. He told me to replace them immediately; they were "all corroded and worn down." I'm thinking "Huh; my LBS back in MA seemed OK with my brakes when I left, and I was happy with the braking power. They seemed fine." But it had been at least 3,000 miles and probably way more than that since I replaced the pads, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to replace them.

He did that, but also did all sorts of stuff to the brake mechanism that I'd never seen my normal mechanic doing. Then when he put the brake back on the bike, he spent probably 30 minutes fiddling around, muttering and swearing and spinning the wheel and hearing it squeak and rub. Eventually a more experienced mechanic came over and started fiddling with the brake.

Meanwhile, I'm standing there waiting, listening to the other mechanics -- there were about 5 guys, none above about 25 years old, there working on bikes -- talking about times they'd been pulled over by cops. Clearly they'd been pulled over any number of times, many of them by the same cop. One kid in particular was talking about how the cop had given him two warnings about the loudness of the exhaust system, but that he (the kid) didn't intend to make it quieter: "I spent a lot of money getting it to be that loud!"

So I'm standing around, listening to this conversation, and cringing as these two mechanics start reefing on the rotor of my rear break because it's not straight. I'm thinking, "It was bent when I left, but before I still could break fine and it didn't rub, so what's the problem? Why does it need yanking on now?" And of course I'm remembering that you're not supposed to touch the rotor and get hand grease on it, which is exactly what they're doing. Then the younger one asks, "Where's the cable cutter?" and immediately I wonder why they need to cut my cables when, again, it was perfectly fine back in MA a week ago just the way it was.

Instead of continuing to listen to and watch this, I wandered into the back room where they keep all the bikes they're working on. The door was open, and I could see the parking lot out there, and I figured I'd go look for the car with the exhaust system. That was kind of boring, though -- there's only so long I can look at pimped out guy cars -- so I went back in through the storage room.

That's when I saw the bike porn poster. It was a mostly naked lady with a wet, white clinging shirt on; she had no pants on but was holding a suspension fork upside down so it covered her nipples and crotch; some liquid was portrayed flowing over her and of course she had some kind of rapturous/come-hither look on her face. I spent a long time looking at it in shock: What kind of retail business would put that kind of trash up where customers might see it? This was a back room, but it wasn't closed off and I could easily see customers retrieving their bikes from there, for example. They don't, as far as I could tell, have any women employees, so I don't think it's a legal issue. But I found it revolting that they put a poster like that up at all, and even if their wrenching had been fabulous (which it patently was NOT), I wouldn't go back there again.

Back in the store, I spent some time trying to decide what to say about their poster, if I should say anything, and who I would say it to. At that point they finally seemed done with my bike, took it off the rack, and handed it to me. I pulled the brake levers experimentally and the front brake lever pulled all the way to the handlebar. I said, "Could you tighten this up? This is crazy," and the mechanic said, "Well, we can't tighten it up much more..." but put it back on the stand. He fiddled around with the dials on the brakes some, and then he started reefing on that rotor, too, because he claimed it wasn't straight. Then, to my horror, he took out a file and started FILING THE ROTOR. :eek::eek::eek: I don't claim to know anything about bike mechanic work, and I let my LBS do everything for me, including replacing my chain, so I deferred to the guys at Bothell Bike & Ski the way I do to my LBS mechanic. I think that was a big mistake.

Eventually they finished and it ended up costing almost $80 (including a new cheap water bottle holder) on top of the $150 I spent to ship the darn bike out here. I rode away with huge relief and only a mile later realized that they had taken the water bottle off my bike when they put it in the stand, but they'd never put it back in. So I didn't have my water bottle, and since I was meeting somebody, I didn't want to spend the time to go back and retrieve it right then. I called the shop when I got home after my ride and sure enough, my water bottle was still there.

I'm seething inside from this experience, for several reasons.

1. They were inept. The kid who worked on my bike first took the rear break apart, but then left out a piece when he put it back together. They only realized it because they couldn't get the brake to stop rubbing, and the more experienced mechanic took the break apart AGAIN. A simple 20-minute stop ended up taking almost 5x that long. Messing with things that weren't broken and not giving me my water bottle did not inspire confidence or customer satisfaction.

2. They were profane and immature. Tons of swearing from the mechanics and their stories about being pulled over and talk about their overly tricked out cars for an hour and a half left me feeling fairly negative. I know they're mostly guys in their 20s, but they're at WORK. Even if work's cleaning and repairing bikes, shouldn't they have some level of professionalism?

3. They had soft porn on the back wall. That is just the last straw for me. I loathe porn -- what woman wouldn't? -- and seeing it at a bike shop like that, with the model holding a bike part, just made me sick and angry inside. :mad:

More constructively, can any of you PNW ladies recommend a GOOD bike shop for next time I'm in town? There's no way I'm going back to Bothell Bike & Ski after I get my water bottle back, but I will probably need bike servicing at some point out here.

In summary: GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. :mad::eek::mad:

Edit to add: I had actually called ahead and had an appointment. My mom recommended the shop and specifically told me to see Donnie, who she feels is a trustworthy mechanic. Donnie wasn't there, so perhaps that's part of the reason I didn't have as good of an experience as she has had in the past.

Kfergos-- I am really sorry you had such a bad experience with the bike shop. They changed ownership several years ago and just recently move to their new location a couple of weeks ago (don't know if this has any bearing on service). I was in there yesterday afternoon to pick up some nutritional stuff and spoke briefly with one of the owners. Most bike shops in this area are super busy the week before the stp and a lot of them are so backed up they won't even take walk-in's. They may have hired some less experienced mechanics to cover this busy time. If I were you, I would definitely bring your concerns to the owners attention either by calling or writing to them, especially if you felt the first kid working on your bike was not qualified. I do sometimes go to Woodinville Cycle which isn't too far from Bothell. They are a much smaller shop and seem to have pretty knowledgeable people there.

Have a great STP and hope to see you on the road!!!

regarding bike porn. semi or naked b**** on bikes.

I've sort of come to expect seeing things like that all mechanics shops cars or bicycle shops. Never been to a motorcycle shop but I'm sure its the same.

I reached a point of trying to embarrass the boys as much as I can. Why not.

There are things I say to them which I can't print here...

Just dish it right back with a big grin on your face. :D

You should have asked us PacNW gals for a reference. There are lots of GREAT bike shops in the Seattle area!
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience!
Sammamish Bike is up there, they are one of the best shops there is.

ps i can't imagine going to a place called Bike and Ski :eek::eek::eek::eek:

the skill level obviously sucks but +1 to smilingcat on the porn. Let them. You can be strong enough a woman not to be affected by this and with wrenches, I guess it's kind of the culture.

It's good to know about the change in quality of service. I had a really good experience with them 3 years ago after an emergency on the trail. I had been referring others to them (since I am not in the area), but maybe I won't any more.

I don't consider myself a prude by any means, but I tend to feel explicity unwelcome when displays of gratuitous female nudity are made in a business. I don't need to drop any dollars in a place where I am not welcome...

Of course, now that we have the pasty clad stripper-in-a-box esspresso stands on every corner, I can feel unwelcome in my own neighborhood:(:(:(

welcome to the dark underbelly of the bike industry. so sorry it was in such plain view.

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

regarding bike porn. semi or naked b**** on bikes.

I've sort of come to expect seeing things like that all mechanics shops cars or bicycle shops. Never been to a motorcycle shop but I'm sure its the same.

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Actually, when DH worked in a motorbike shop, those soft-porn calendars were not permitted anywhere that customers might see them, including the service bays. Some companies still print them (they come from suppliers, you know - parts and tire companies), but many don't. He last worked as a mechanic almost 20 years ago, so that gives you an idea. In 2009, I don't think it's fair to say that that type of thing is to be expected.

Kfergos, sorry you had such a miserable experience. I was never really impressed with their service and selection, and that was for the little things.

Mimi, the ski and bike thing is not that unusual. I think there's at least a couple more in the Seattle area. Business slows down in the colder rainier months for bike shops, so it's a way for them to have a steadier income stream. They tend to focus more on sales than servicing equipment though.

Sorry to hear you had such a horrible (and offensive!) experience. I'm more familiar with shops on the Eastside which may be a little out of the way for you, but +1 on Sammamish Cycle in Redmond; they've always been really good to work with. Gerks Alpine Hut, also in Redmond, has also had really helpful & friendly mechanics every time I've been in; they're a smaller shop but they've given me quick brake or derailleur adjustments no charge, so I try to buy stuff from them whenever they carry whatever it is I'm looking for.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. I wouldn't have been shocked by the calendar--although uncomfortable. As usual, cycling is probably a male dominated industry. My DH is an aircraft mechanic and they used to get these calendars from Snap On Tools--but they discontinued the calendars as more women entered the industry.

I'm not good at speaking up, but I would have considered taking my bike halfway through and not paying. I hope you don't discover they caused damage when you get home to your local lbs. Maybe you should take some pics in case problems creep up.

Try to arrange to pick up your water bottle during the day when the manager would be there.

Ok, here comes the two cents from the bike shop owner...
First, I am SO SORRY that you experienced that. As an owner I cringed as I read your post. But I would want to know about the incident. Unfortunately some shops tend to hire young kids that "seem mechanical" and hope for the best. They may have one seasoned mechanic, but he gets stretched thin picking up after the others. We have a shop down the road that does this, and we are constantly fixing what they messed up. Sometimes it's scary.
I've also noticed that this can happen if the owner of the business is not actively involved in the day to day operations. At trade events I have met many owners that seem more like investors than owners. They have no interest in bikes?? That baffles me!! The industry is definetely not one to get rich in.
I would defintely write a letter to the owner. Not the manager- the owner. Often the manager is just as bad as the mechanics. Think about it- in many shops the manager HIRES the staff.
As for their idle chat. It happens. I often have to tone things down with the boys in the back, and one of them is my husband!! Though they are professional enough to know NOT to do it when there are customers in the store. Let's just say that if they had their choice the atmosphere would be MUCH different than it is. And unfortunately it would be like most bike shops that are out there. That is why I wanted to open a shop. I was tired of dealing with it. But old habits die hard.
As for the poster. I actually think I have seen it. I think it's a marzocchi if I remember correctly. It is tasteless, and it would NEVER be in my shop. But it doesn't surprise me. Actually Knog had a POP (point of puchase display rack) for the computers they came out with that was downright pornographic. It was cartoonish, but very bad!! I was actually shocked that they thought the US market would use it, but I'm sure some have.
Anyway, Defintely have your local shop look at her when you get home. Hopefully no damage was done. And if it was, have them document it and send a copy along with your letter to the owner. I would expect that they would issue you a refund. Oh- and 80.00???!!!! What did they do?? Holy smokes that seems steep!
Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Running Mommy

I would defintely write a letter to the owner. Not the manager- the owner. Often the manager is just as bad as the mechanics. Think about it- in many shops the manager HIRES the staff.

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Yes, Running Mommy is correct. I should have said the owner. My DH discovered this on accident. He called our bike shop (where we had just purchased two bikes) and asked if they had a specific brand of heavy duty tire. The kid said yes. When DH arrived and the kid rang up the purchase--DH realized they weren't what he asked for. The kid say, "oh, yeah. I guess we're out. These are the same thing." DH refused and the kid ordered the tires he requested. When DH returned a few days later, he met the owner. He had a completely different experience. The owner is a racer and in the shop during the day (kids on the afternoons and weekends). He was friendly, knowledgeable and willing to help. We now make all visits when we know the owner will be in.

I had the same experience when I bought my road bike at a different shop. I was halfway out the door, when the owner caught me. After the kid said they didn't have anything for me, the owner put me on a "beginning racer." When I cringed, he regrouped and got me out on the bike. It was love at first ride :) I made sure to return when HE could do my fit. After a few visits, the kids warmed up to me and I receive better service.

sorry about the bad labor on the bike, that does sound like a drag but...

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I don't consider myself a prude by any means, but I tend to feel explicity unwelcome when displays of gratuitous female nudity are made in a business. I don't need to drop any dollars in a place where I am not welcome...

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the whatever you want to call it was not in a public area, it was

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into the back room where they keep all the bikes they're working on.

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

regarding bike porn. semi or naked b**** on bikes.

I've sort of come to expect seeing things like that all mechanics shops cars or bicycle shops. Never been to a motorcycle shop but I'm sure its the same.

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I'm with smilingcat. Just blow it off, when you let it piss you off you are giving it a lot more power over you than if you ignore it. Think of how much energy gets wasted getting mad over this. Especially if you weren't in a public area. The back room, that's the shop's domain.
The male mind is geared to appreciated women visually.

I"m trying to imagine smilingcat saying something, with a straight face: "wow I guess you like gals in tight t-shirts with really big...."

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Originally Posted by Irulan

The back room, that's the shop's domain.

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I've been asked to step into the backroom at two bike shops to look at something.
No, not that.

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Originally Posted by Zen

I've been asked to step into the backroom at two bike shops to look at something.
No, not that.

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I'd say it's a function of the management, and what they think is acceptable. In any case not worth getting mad about but one could certainly take their dollars elsewhere and say why...

I too, am sorry that you had the experience that you had! Unfortuantely as others have mentioned, it seems to happen more than it should.

From a mechanical standpoint, I'm not sure why they would have taken off the brake caliper... you generally don't need to take them off to replace pads. AS for taking a file to the rotor, I cringed when you mentioned that AGH!! Rotors do bend, but one would generally true them (like a wheel) or replace it if it is bad enough. The greasy hands on the rotor would also damage your new brake pads! More than likely, the sqeaking noise that you heard is either the pads hitting the rotor, or the fact that now both rotor and pads have been contaminated by the mechanics hands..(most generally wear gloves while doing this). Lastly, when a new rotor or set of pads is replaced, you generally go through a short breaking in period... similar to the pads and rotor on your car. Most expereinced mechanics do know tricks to either eliminate that or certainly make that break in period much shorter.

As others have mentioned, I would definitely send a letter to the owner and explain what your experience was like. I wonder what he would think if he knew that this info was online for anyone to read?

At any rate, write your letter and have a good rest of the summer;)

Too bad there's no "AAA certified" or equivalent for wrenches. Or is there? It just makes me appreciate my LBS more.

Ladies (and gents) if you have found a good bike shop thank them and regularly buy them beer and/or chocolate. :p

Paul at Recycled Cycles is very good. www.recycledcycles.com He has worked miracles on my bikes.

Both guys at Free Range Cycles are good. Free Range is owned by a woman. www.freerangecycles.com Multiple TE'ers have bought bikes or had work done at Free Range. Tiny shop, very tiny, and they care deeply about every customer. They've fixed something another shop broke on my bike, and did it WITHOUT bad-mouthing the other shop. High class!

Zac at Cascade Bicycle Studio is also beloved by more than one TE'er. http://cascadebicyclestudio.com/ He has worked with the great Chris Robinson of Robinson Wheelworks. Nice guy, never talks down to anyone. His shop is very comfortable and quiet.

Don't go back to Bothell Ski and Bike. They've got a reputation here in the north end, and it isn't a good one.

Yeah- +1 to finding a new bike shop - it is apparent that they can't be Bothelled to do things well..:)

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. I wasn't too impressed by Bothell Ski and Bike either, when I visited last year.

If you ever need a bike shop here, I'd HIGHLY recommend Woodinville Cycle. They've been great to me every single time I come in; even though I'm still almost completely clueless about cycling. A few weeks ago, I stopped in on a busy Saturday morning looking to buy clipless pedals to match the cycling shoes I bought online. The owner not only installed my cleats and pedals, but also set me up on a trainer in the back, taught me how to clip in and out, and adjusted my seat. He was extremely nice about it all, didn't charge me extra, and still managed to help all of the other customers too. I have received the same sort of excellent service every time I've been there.

I am the owner of Bothell Ski and Bike. I find her experience at our shop interesting. She did have some valid points that will be adressed. She also had some complaints that were innacurate.

I was in the store on the day her bike was serviced. She did have an appointment and really needed her bike serviced on the spot. Her appointment was for a drop off and pick up the next day. With on the spot service it sometimes takes longer than estimated and other times it is finished quicker.

The mechanics performed a brake overhaul, pad replacement, straightened two rotors, and gear adjustment. Normal cost is well over $80. They also let her know her disc was badly burred and she did not want to buy a new one. The normal procedure to remove a burr is to use a file. After 3,000 plus miles of commuting on the east coast her brakes were seriuosly corroded and her LBS should have pointed this out to her.

The mechanics that worked on her bike is 31 years old, 12 years of bike mechanic work and is in charge of our parts dept.

We did not forget her bottle cage. She left her water bottle on one of our counters in the store.

While she waited for her bike she wandered into our warehouse. This is an employees only area. I have never found myself while waiting in a business wandering into the employee only area. This is where she saw a single Marzochi poster. It is not porn and is more innocent that most of the commercials our children are exposed to on TV.

She is correct that the mechanics were talking about their cars. This has been adressed.

We are an owner operated business and we pride ourselves on our customer service. Our shop has learned from this experience. Thank you for helping my store become more customer friendly.

Thank you all for your input, both on the poster and for bike shop recommendations. I wanted to update you on the situation, since I've now talked to the bike shop owner in person and we've settled some things.

1. The poster - They immediately took it down and the owner apologized and told me he thought it was inappropriate. I'm sure they won't be using that type of poster for decoration again in the future.

2. The language - I told the owner that I understood this was a guys' environment and I understood that, but the owner said they'd be watching their language in the shop regardless.

Both of those two things make me feel much better. I can understand both and that it may be status quo for a male-dominated environment, but if bike shops want to be comfortable and pleasant for all people, and if you want to encourage more women to join the sport in general, then I think eliminating the two things above will make a big difference in the feel of the shop.

3. The wrenching - In the meeting with the owner, we also had the experienced mechanic who finished working on my bike. This was very, very helpful because he explained why he did what he did, which made sense: He said that (a) He didn't think that getting hand grease on the rotor was a problem and that his hands were freshly-washed, not bike-greasy at all, so he didn't see that as an issue (the owner interjected that he saw there were clearly multiple opinions on this, so that could be a matter of opinion) -- I'll buy that; (b) He filed the rotor because it had a... shoot, there's a particular word he used, but it sounded like a burr or bit sticking out that was rubbing compared to the rest of the rotor. He filed the rotor to remove that.

Then he and the owner explained the mechanic's credentials: 12 years as a bike mechanic, using disc brakes since they've existed, machining his own rotors numerous times, etc. The mechanic actually went into more depth than I'm covering now about why he did what he did ("I saw evidence of blueing on the rotor, showing it was permanently warped"; "If I'd had my preference, I would have replaced your rotors entirely") and I felt like I had an idea of why he'd done what he did, which has helped me feel a lot better about it. I told them I thought more communication would have seriously helped -- I might have bought new rotors then (I've had the rotors since October and rode all winter with them), if they'd explained what the issues were, which would've saved everybody a lot of time and headache.

They also pointed out that this was two days before the STP, that the mechanics were worked to the bone already (I bet!), and that it's not like they wanted to spend an hour and a half on my bike. I believe it. I have no doubt that the mechanic and Bothell Ski & Bike did their best to get my bike in the best working order they could, and that they weren't trying to waste my time or sell me things (the brake pads) that I didn't need. I believe that, too, and I wonder if some of the issue is the difference between what's acceptable to an East Coast bike mechanic, who sees corroded parts all the time thanks to New England's winter salt-and-sand usage, and a West Coast bike mechanic, for whom corrosion would be much less common.

Finally, the owner agreed that they would pay for me to replace or fix anything that needed it once my bike normal mechanic takes a look at my bike.

I feel better for having talked with the owner and I think we were able to reach a reasonable resolution from the situation.

Good for you for following up with them. I think that really matters. Thanks.

Great for following up... I would recommend next time going to Gerk's Ski and Bike or Sammamish Valley Cycle. The service there is top notch without attitude. Another great place to go for great service is VeloceVelo in Issaquah. Any of the mentioned three places will give you AAAA service.

Well, I'm impressed with the place again. Especially their willingness to address all the issues involved in a rational and straightforward way.

As I mentioned earlier, my experience with them was so positive (especially when compared with other dealings with bike shops closer to home) I was shocked by the original post. I had dropped in with a broken spoke, the third one in a month. The two mechanics I dealt with dropped everything to work on my bike. The issue was more a matter of being too heavy for my p.o.s. cheepie wheel than anything else, and they very tactfully and respectfully suggested I needed a sturdier wheel. There just happened to be such an item in the back room and they slapped that puppy on and also, I suspect, made some adjustments to the deraileur because it suddenly started shifting like a dream. within 20 minutes I was back on the trail, thrilled to be able to continue my ride. That wheel has given me years of troublefree riding. Another heavy friend dropped in with a similar problem and was very impressed with the wheel they built for him.

I have to say that was the best customer service I have ever received in a bike shop.

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Originally Posted by Bikesale.com

It is not porn and is more innocent that most of the commercials our children are exposed to on TV.

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The whole tone of this post bothers me. It reeks of excuses. The poster may be "innocent" to them but not to many women.

I have no dog in this fight and am so thankful that I have a good LBS.

Surely it's not a matter of dogs and fighting, more of picking flies out of the honey.