To Athena, or Not to Athena...

... that is the question.

I'm buying someone's spot in a race (sprint) that literally passes my backyard. I am VERY familiar with this area (as you can imagine :p). Two years ago in this race I would have placed 4th athena and was top 15 or 20 in my "regular" age group. That was before I got Lucy (my tri bike) and before two Ironmans.

I am expecting (hoping) this year to be my last year as an athena (though I have actually entered no races as an athena because I figured if I'm not going to win anyway, why does it matter - I can always compare my results). I am going to spend time focusing on weight loss and conditioning to remove the rest of my squishy - I am 5'4" and about 155-160 lbs now (depends on what the week has been like - only after Ironman or having the flu have I been below 150 in the last two years). As the wii so graciously reminds me, "that's overweight!" I can tell that over the last year my legs have gotten bigger but smaller (if that makes sense - I can now see my quads in pictures, but I have not lost actual weight, nor are they actually smaller).

Anyway... so why not? I guess I can't get over the "everyone knows I'm over 150 lbs" thing, and more importantly would it be seen as childish to race just because you think you can win? I've never been about that, but the prospect of having a chance does appeal to me. I am competitive, but choose to compete with myself, and always have... but but. I also don't want to take the victory away from someone who truly is athena, and what athena actually means... though at 5'4" and 155 lbs maybe that actually is me.

I have a few days to decide. Thinking out loud... advice welcome. ;)

Go for it! :) I don't see it as robbing the potential win from someone else if you did win.. it's certainly not as if you don't train hard too!

I raced Athena last year in two of my races and was thrilled to place. Do it! It's fun to get the plaques or medals or whatever.

I don't see it as "taking a win" from someone. The race rules say 150 pounds. That means any chick who weighs more than 150 pounds - even if it's 150.1- can choose to race Athena. It doesn't matter why you weigh more than 150 or how much over you are. Heck, if I still weighed enough, I'd race Athena. Some of those super fast chicks weigh less than my lean body mass of 116 pounds. But I'm down to 146, so no Athena for me.

Veronica

I agree - why not go for it if you are eligible for the category? I plan to race as an Athena in my first du coming up in August. Of course I'm 6'1" and nearly 200 lbs so I most definitely qualify for the category. Haha. Good luck!!!

I'm over 150 so I race Athena. Why not? I'm not going to place in my AG, so at least there I have a shot at winning something. ;)
My only gripe is when someone who is an amazing athlete races Athena and they are almost 6 foot tall and weigh 150. No fair. :p

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Originally Posted by Tri Girl

I'm over 150 so I race Athena. Why not? I'm not going to place in my AG, so at least there I have a shot at winning something. ;)
My only gripe is when someone who is an amazing athlete races Athena and they are almost 6 foot tall and weigh 150. No fair. :p

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Race Athena Colby.

As for losing weight... I did it by doing the following:

1) Logging all my food on www.livestrong.com/The Daily Plate.

2) I had a base of 1400 calories and would add 1/2 of what I burned exercising to that. So if I burned 400 calories running I would get to eat 1600 calories that day.

By doing that I lost a good 5 pounds in a month... went from 5'4" 125 pounds to 118 pounds. Some days I'm at 117. I'm not trying to lose anymore weight though. Mind you, last year right before my IM I was up to 130 pounds.

It was REALLY HARD to lose those few pounds... but I sucked it up and did it. Now all my clothes fit... and in fact, most of them are falling off me now. Since your IM is over, focus on losing weight, and it will happen. You just have to be very strict with your diet.


I agree Tri Girl... when a girl who is 6 foot tall and is obviously in amazing shape is racing Athena... I think that is BS.

The same for the men too. You see it all the time. Some guy is 6'4" and racing Clydesdale... and he's OBVIOUSLY very fit and a top athlete. I see him as working the system. He KNOWS that he can compete with the samller guys, but he does Clydes just to win a medal.

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Originally Posted by KSH

I agree Tri Girl... when a girl who is 6 foot tall and is obviously in amazing shape is racing Athena... I think that is BS.

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It seems to me that a solution would be to switch to BMI-based categorization rather than just weight, but maybe that goes against the initial inspiration for these categories. Of course, it would take an act of congress to get the change made, so it's a moot thought, anyway.

BMI does not work on people who are really muscular.

I am 5'5" and weigh 146. I have 21% body fat, but my BMI is barely in the "normal" weight range.

Veronica

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Originally Posted by KSH

1) Logging all my food on www.livestrong.com/The Daily Plate.

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Sorry to thread hijack here, but KSH- thank you for posting this. I LOVE that site. I've done many online sites before when counting calories and they've all bugged me for some reason or another (too difficult to navigate, too irritating with all the stuff on the page). I've been using this one for 3 days and I love, love , love it. Easy to use, easy to navigate, don't have to search forever. I think I could actually keep this one up...

I need to drop about 25 lbs to get back down to where I was when I did my IM 3 years ago. I can't believe how fast I put it on (and yet it creeped up on me). Put on 10 in the 2 months after the race (forgot to quit eating as much as I was when I was training) and the other 15 just came on slowly until I was like: "YOWZA- I'm a big girl now." :eek:
I really think I'll use this site all the time.

Thanks for posting this as I would've never found it on my own. :)

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Originally Posted by Veronica

BMI does not work on people who are really muscular.

I am 5'5" and weigh 146. I have 21% body fat, but my BMI is barely in the "normal" weight range.

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You misunderstood my point. I think that lugging around more weight in a race, whether it be fat or muscle, should qualify someone for Athena/Clydesdale.

However, being tall and a normal athletic build/weight for one's height, shouldn't necessarily qualify someone for Athena/Clydesdale, at least by my thinking.

BMI would work for that. In fact, it might be the only thing BMI might be good for. ;)

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Originally Posted by Tri Girl

Sorry to thread hijack here, but KSH- thank you for posting this. I LOVE that site. I've done many online sites before when counting calories and they've all bugged me for some reason or another (too difficult to navigate, too irritating with all the stuff on the page). I've been using this one for 3 days and I love, love , love it. Easy to use, easy to navigate, don't have to search forever. I think I could actually keep this one up...

I need to drop about 25 lbs to get back down to where I was when I did my IM 3 years ago. I can't believe how fast I put it on (and yet it creeped up on me). Put on 10 in the 2 months after the race (forgot to quit eating as much as I was when I was training) and the other 15 just came on slowly until I was like: "YOWZA- I'm a big girl now." :eek:
I really think I'll use this site all the time.

Thanks for posting this as I would've never found it on my own. :)

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Sure, no problem! Enjoy!

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Originally Posted by KSH

Race Athena Colby.

As for losing weight... I did it by doing the following:

1) Logging all my food on www.livestrong.com/The Daily Plate.

2) I had a base of 1400 calories and would add 1/2 of what I burned exercising to that. So if I burned 400 calories running I would get to eat 1600 calories that day.

By doing that I lost a good 5 pounds in a month... went from 5'4" 125 pounds to 118 pounds. Some days I'm at 117. I'm not trying to lose anymore weight though. Mind you, last year right before my IM I was up to 130 pounds.

It was REALLY HARD to lose those few pounds... but I sucked it up and did it. Now all my clothes fit... and in fact, most of them are falling off me now. Since your IM is over, focus on losing weight, and it will happen. You just have to be very strict with your diet.

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You make that sound so easy. Base of 1400 calories + half of what you burn exercising everyday. That seems like a logical and easy to manage formula. It's the sucking it up and doing it part I have trouble with.

I will have to try that LiveStrong tool. I've tried things like that before, too, but I found the notetaking tedious and all the measuring of portions. You'd think riding 60+ miles per week would mean I didn't have to measure anything I put on my plate.

What I found disheartening in the one tri that I almost did (if you look back at the thread, you'll see my doctor told me no, that I'm just not ready for it yet due to blood pressure issues), for their categories, they stopped dividing by gender at the normal weight ranges. There was no Athena category, just Clydesdale for anyone over 150 lbs. For someone shaped like me, that says a lot, and it's not at all nice. I mean, I know I'm in San Diego and all, but come on.

Is there no room for a category for women over 200 lbs?

Roxy


Sorry I'm so whiny. I'm premenstrual and moody, bloated - seriously, like seven pounds heavier than last week after two weeks in Hawaii, my breasts hurt, my face is breaking out like a fifteen-year-old's, and there's just stuff going on. Time to go meditate on my blessings.

Okay, you got me, I'm going to start using it, too. I think it will help.

I honestly think part of my problem may be that I did not consume ENOUGH calories during my Ironman training, and my body held on to everything for dear life, thinking we really NEEDED that stupid fat around my middle. ;) Eating 2000-2400 calories a day was really difficult for me, especially working out in the morning and then going straight to work. I have eaten a lot of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, but some days I just waited for lunch. I am getting better about that.

Part of the challenge for me is going to be eating consistently. As much as I hate eating on the clock, maybe that's what it'll take. I imagine what I'm doing is letting my blood sugar drop, starving myself, then eating a large meal, which is dumb. I do tend to eat smaller dinners, which is at least the right direction, but there is this big gap between lunch and dinner. I usually fill it with fruit and a cheese stick, but that sometimes just goes into the "bucket" and doesn't change how I feel. I probably need to be eating actual dinner at that time. :P

Anyway, long-winded... hopefully food journaling will help.

Colby, my experience 20 years ago in ballet was that when I dropped my calorie intake too low given how many classes a week I was taking, my body seized any calories it could get and clung to them like a boa constrictor. I'd eat an apple and I swear the scale would go up. It seems to go better if I eat in moderation and don't starve.

I have been pondering the Athena thing as well. I just switched out of age group into Athena for my next sprint triathlon, so we'll see how it works for me.

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Originally Posted by salsabike

Colby, my experience 20 years ago in ballet was that when I dropped my calorie intake too low given how many classes a week I was taking, my body seized any calories it could get and clung to them like a boa constrictor. I'd eat an apple and I swear the scale would go up. It seems to go better if I eat in moderation and don't starve.

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So far in my food journaling I have found that I eat 1700-2000 calories a day regardless of what I exercise, and I tend not to adjust my intake to my exercise. Yesterday that turned into 1800 calories eaten, more than 600 calories of exercise (40 minutes of running/40 minutes of swimming), and under 1200 net calories. I know I want a deficit, but I think that's a bit too MUCH of a deficit :eek:

I have also learned that I need to push calories into the morning - I am eating around 700 calories for lunch and dinner, but only around 200-300 for breakfast. If I need to skim calories I should be skimming off the evening, vs. not eating enough and trying to make up for them in the evening - and I can't do that. Today I'm up to 500 calories before lunch, so I'm hoping to feel better (though I am exercising in the evening today, which will throw my dinner plans to later, which means I'm likely to eat less, so I will probably STILL come out too low).

I believe the only reason I am not flat out starving is that I consistently eat a lot of protein and fiber - those numbers are always above 100% for my RDA.

I am mentally having a very difficult time thinking I need to eat that many calories. I think what I need to do is to go speak to a nutritionist and have myself measured this way and that to convince myself that it is OKAY to eat that much food - that my body NEEDS it. For some reason I just can't tell myself someone my size needs to consume 2400 calories a day and LOSE weight at the same time. I always excuse it as based on measurements and approximations of people who don't have my lifestyle, blah blah, and figure it's measuring on the high side, so I shouldn't eat too much, etc.

Sorry to rant/vent. :)

I am pretty well convinced to go Athena and tell myself it'll be the "last" year I'll be over 150lbs. Might as well use it while I got it.

2400 calories sounds like a lot to me. In March I weighed 156 at 5'5", so not that different from you. I'm down to 145 now. I eat between 1500 - 1600 calories a day and I'm training for a HIM on that.

A nutritionist sounds like a good idea. I honestly thought I was eating pretty healthy until I talked to mine.

Veronica

Good thread, I have been thinking about this for awhile. Last year I dared a good friend of mine who is 5"7" and over 200, probably 220-240 to do a triathlon with me, she chose the location, I would meet her there. She raced athena, but watching the athena race seemed utterly unfair to me, all sorts of fit women who are tall and muscular fit into the category. A model about 5'10" and not at all struggling with overweight, and women who were, at the most "robust", but certainly not fat, and most certainly with nice muscular "big" bodies. It just seemed utterly unfair to me, here are these women, who mostly don't even go do triathlon because it means being in the public eye with their bodies half naked (she felt pretty humiliated and really needed to talk to herself when she saw the other athenas) , and yet they are competing against really fit women. I certainly hope I don't get raked over the coal for this, but it seems to me it does take a medal away from someone who has really struggled, not to undermine what it takes to do a tri for the non overweight.

There are races that have different categories of "Athena". I haven't seen it in a tri, granted, but I have in a marathon. Portland Marathon actually has Athena groups by weight and they weigh you at the expo. It's a bit humiliating but it keeps things honest.

A lighter person will generally do better than a heavier one. Look at the elites, they have almost no body fat. I think Athena shouldn't be a substitution for out of shape but I see it as a "normal" category as opposed to the really really good people. I did do a tri once where I saw an awful lot of "professional Athena" looking sorts...and they did expect to win.

I'd say if you can race Athena, go for it. If you're over that 150 lbs, you're at a deficit. I wish there was another category, like ultra-Athena? Something...because I can also relate to those people who have never done a tri or who are substantially heavier. I know how intimidating it is to be new and feel awkward and feel out of place.

I know that I will race Athena when the option is there. It's not like I want to take an award away from someone else but I also know that I will never see an age group award for my age group unless I'm 80 and improve a LOT :)

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Originally Posted by teigyr

I also know that I will never see an age group award for my age group unless I'm 80 and improve a LOT :)

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That's my motto: "Outlive them all."
I figure I'll start placing in my late 60's early 70's if I can still maintain my current paces. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by channlluv

You make that sound so easy. Base of 1400 calories + half of what you burn exercising everyday. That seems like a logical and easy to manage formula. It's the sucking it up and doing it part I have trouble with.


Roxy

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I will say it was NOT easy. It was hard. I was so... miserable... yeah, that's the word. I was hungry, light headed, dizzy, and felt pretty bad most of the day. I dropped the weight, but it wasn't fun getting there.

Not to mention I couldn't eat out with the boyfriend on the weekends (no self control when I eat out), or go to happy hours (oh yeah, it's a party drinking diet coke), etc.

So it wasn't easy. :) It is work. Unfortunately!

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Originally Posted by Tri Girl

That's my motto: "Outlive them all."
I figure I'll start placing in my late 60's early 70's if I can still maintain my current paces. :rolleyes:

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Haha, I told someone that about Ironman when they asked me about going to Kona: maybe when I'm 60. :p I guess at least being a woman, I've got 2/3 fewer people to worry about compared to the dudes out there. So maybe I'll make it when I'm 55 (this is where my husband rolls his eyes at me about doing Ironman for 25 more years).

Maybe there should be an optional first-timers category like there is Athena, though you still run into the same problem with the ultra-fit people. A lot of first-timers have real nervousness getting into the water and it might be helpful for them to start in a wave with people like themselves. Or, it could be a disaster, I guess. Also doesn't help the perennial fatties like myself who are only a first-timer once but an Athena every time, and still not ultra-athletes.

(I did lose 1.5 lbs in the last 2 weeks though.... I'll believe it when it gets to 5 or 10, as 1.5 lbs is within the margin of error. This is on top of not gaining back half of my Ironman weight, so I am overall down about 7 lbs from before I did Ironman, when I was at my max of 162. So, now I'm "stuck" at 155, so it's pretty safe to race Athena in 10 days and not feel like a TOTAL jerk.)

Oh shoot, I am gonna have to compete with you all when we are 60, I too have said, no ironmans until then. Maybe for my 60th birthday....but I too hoped to be in the top 3, according to this thread, I may place out of that already....:D

Well, Athena it is. :) The race is this Sunday, we'll see how it goes. They lengthened the bike ride from 10.5 to 12 miles (otherwise it's a shorter swim/run than normal, 1/3 mile and 3 miles), but it is pretty flat and I know it well - though I think I'm going to ride it tomorrow just to get perspective. No way am I stressing over a wetsuit for 1/3 mile swim, though I am considering trying a short-leg sleeveless suit to see how it feels for shorter swims (still not sure it'll be worth the time to take it off).