Anyone ride smallest frames and 650 wheels?

Hello,

I am currently riding a small Giant. I am shopping for a new bike right now.
The Giant was never properly fitted to me. The frame is too big and I am stretched out. I am 5 feet tall with short torso. I have been working with a LBS and they are trying to fit me into a new bike. They are trying to get me into something with 700c wheels. They let me test ride a small ORBEA. I forgot the model but they measured a TT of 49cm. With everything adjusted to its limits it felt better than my Giant but I still feel stretched out. They even ordered a seat post with no set back to get the seat closer to the bars (problem here is I think my knees will end up too far forward - I was going to test ride this set up yesterday but it was raining)

It is more apparent I will need smaller wheels. A lot of brands have WSD with 650 wheels. The small frames all seem to have very extreme seat tube angles. For example I am looking at at Specialized Ruby with a seat tube angle of 76. Does anyone ride a small frame bike? How is the comfort/handling of these small frames? I doubt any of my local shops will have the smallest frames/wheels for me to test ride.

I am looking for something full carbon.

Any suggestions/opinions are appreciated.

Thanks

I'm not sure I'd throw in the towel and give up on 700c wheels after testing one or two bikes that don't quite fit you in that size.

Now if you really WANT 650s then by all means find a bike that has them.

But if you aren't sure then look at the following (all with 700s in something around a 46-49cm bike):

Scott Contessa or the xxs mens bikes
Specialized Ruby (these felt cramped to me, so may be just right for you)
Giant's XS bikes
Wilier Mimosa/Izoard (if you can get your hands on one)
Felt
Fuji
Trek Madonne

I rode all of these, all in 700c wheels. I also rode the 49cm Orbea and felt a little stretched like you did. These worked better for me (not as stretched feeling).

Just a comment - I manage on 700c wheels, I'm 5'1, but I seem to have a relatively long torso. I really really dislike seat tube angles that are bigger than about 73.5 degrees... I just don't feel like I can get my knees/legs comfortable in the right position.

but other people seem to be just fine, so it may be my proportions.

Its not that I've given up but the more different bikes I look at the more I realize I will never be able to fit into a bike with larger wheels. There are just too many compromise in the frame design. Has anyone ridden the Specalized Ruby with the 650 wheels or the Trek Madone WSD?

I have a 48cm cervelo RS (XS) with a 73 degree STA and 650c wheels that I absolutely love. I have long femurs so I need a slack STA, but short arm and torso so the top tube can't be too long either. This is the first ever stock bike I have found that fit me well. For what its worth, it also has no toe clip overlap and I have big feet (42 womens sidis).

Don't use pushing the saddle forward to shorten the reach, that will interfere with your pedaling effeciency.

The Ruby 44 cm Ruby has 700c wheels. I'm 5'0", short torso/arms longer legs and I ride one. I did have to put a slightly shorter stem on it, but it has worked out well for me. I also have a 47 cm ti frame with 650 wheels and I don't think it fits me any better than the Ruby - I also had to put a shorter stem on it.

I agree with the others, don't give up before you try other bikes. Giants tend to have very long top tubes compared to other brands.

47 cm Cannondale Synapse with 700cc wheels. I find this bike to be a bit twitchy but I think it is the handlebars, I am contemplating putting a shallower drop. I haven't found a great toe overlap issue, so I really think it isn't the wheels but the bars. I also thing a shorter stem might help.

I used to have a 48 cm Fuji with 650cc and don't think it was that different except tubes were harder to come by. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littlebit

Does anyone ride a small frame bike? How is the comfort/handling of these small frames? I doubt any of my local shops will have the smallest frames/wheels for me to test ride.
Thanks

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I ride a 43cm Rodriguez w/ 650c wheels. Not sure what the seat tube angle is. There is a smidge of toe overlap but I find it is not an issue because I generally don't pedal through turns, and I'm rarely making such a tight turn for it to be an issue.

If a bike fits you properly, it should handle just fine.

I also had trouble finding bikes to test ride when I was shopping for my current bike. May have had to do with the time of year I was shopping (February) -- they just didn't have much of anything. I ended up going to the framebuilder that made the bike that I was looking to replace.

Perhaps you could ask the LBS when they expect to get new models in, and if they could get in touch with you when they have a bike the right size for you to test ride? Also, you might ask other TE'ers in your area what LBSs they have had good experiences with.

Orbea does make a size 46cm w/650c wheels... STA 74 degrees Size below the 49cm w/700s... STA 74.5 degrees.

I own a 49cm Orbea Onix Dama TDF. I'm 5 4 1/2 ", long torso, short legs. My Giant was a size small also. Too big for me overall.

Something about the Orbea geo just felt and fit right. Well, I knew I was after the right frame size after a paid for pro-fit at a shop diff than the one that took my $ for the ill fitting too big bike *sigh*.

I could have fit the guy's Orbea ok too. Very close geo. My longer torso is the thing there. Everything just feels so much better in the smaller frame.

I also test rode Trisk's Cervelo. The RS in a 48cm. Nice slack STA as she says. For me, maybe a bit too slack w/the shortie legs. I think that's part of how something about the Orbea clicked better. But, the Cervelo was a very nice and responsive ride.

I had to do a lot of road trips to find the two bikes I did to test ride. The Orbea wasn't even the carbon I bought. Did so "sight unseen". It was a left over alum version. The Cervelo was a sale gone bad. Some peep ordered from the shop for his tiny wife, then stiffed them. Normally, it would not have been stock to test.

The R3 Cervelo has 700c wheels and comes in a 48cm--73STA. It does have toe over-lap w/the bigger wheels. My Orbea did a bit too on the test ride. But, that was on a very sharp turn going super slow. Which I rarely do. Other than the test ride, I've never clipped my toe since. It's what you feel comfy with in the end. Some ladies it bothers to know it's there. Some it does not.

CompetativeCyclists dot com does, or did have, test bikes of the R3 down to a 48cm. It's a fee, but $ off if you buy. Just a thought if you could deal with the mail order program.

I did dealer search on the brands with geo I knew I wanted to try (& that worked from my pro fit). Called ahead for stock and appointments. Then hit the road to find a test ride.

Maybe you could try the manufacturer direct for a test ride? That was going to be my next step.

I do know that Terry has some test program for bikes. Btw, when you write to Terry about their bikes, you get Georgina Terry *herself* as a reply. I thought that was pretty impressive. Great lady. Just the geo was not exactly "it" for me.... and I wanted carbon as choice #1 for frame material.

It took me a long time to make my decision on my current ride. But, after the painful mess, both physcially and financially, of my too big bike, it was worth it!

Good Luck:).

Some models to check out with 650c wheels and slacker (normal) seat tube angles:

Litespeed Bella XS, 74 STA
(Merlin used to make the Camena, which in the XS had 650c wheels and a 73 or 73.5 STA, but they seem to have stopped making it for 2009)

Terry Fast Woman 16" & 17.5" both have 74 STA

As someone else mentioned, Cervelo's RS has a 73 STA and 650 wheels in the smallest size. I think that size is probably too big for you though, as it'd be the size I'd get at 5'4".

If you're considering throwing down for a Ruby, you should at least consider a custom builder like Luna or sweetpea.

How about Jamis? They go down to a 48cm bike. My SO is 5'1" and the Jamis fits her great.

Littlebit, where are you located? I live in northwest Ohio and would be happy to let you ride my small 650 wheeled bikes.

I'm 5'0"+1/2" tall (heh, the smallest coffee at Starbucks is a tall, so I'm a tall). I'd be very surprised if a 46-48 frame would fit someone our height - the top tubes are just too long. I have never considered a bike with 700 wheels.

My first bike was professionally fitted at a Detroit suburb bike shop. I had narrowed my choices down to a few bikes (including a Giant) but according to the fitting all my favorites were too big for me. They ordered me a mid range Cannondale R800 WSD size 40 cm with a 48.5 cm top tube and a 75 seat tube angle. This was back in 2002 - it seems that there are even fewer mid to higher end bikes in very small sizes today. I later bought a Seven titanium road bike which is a size 44 cm with a 48.5 cm top tube and a 75.5 seat tube angle. I ride over 6,000 miles a year so obviously these bikes fit me and are comfortable. I've taken advantage of additional fittings at triathlon events and the adjustments are very minor.

You mentioned you want carbon but don't mention a budget but you seem prepared to spend ... I think you should consider custom. The Orbea Diva 46 has a 74 seat tube angle but a 502 top tube which is too long for me. Scott Contessa xxs - also a 505 top tube. Specialized Ruby Pro just under 500 (496).

I'll be interested in hearing how the search ends ... please keep us posted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jaclyn

I'm 5'0"+1/2" tall (heh, the smallest coffee at Starbucks is a tall, so I'm a tall). I'd be very surprised if a 46-48 frame would fit someone our height - the top tubes are just too long. I have never considered a bike with 700 wheels.

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Not really relevant, but I guess I'm the exception.

I'm 5'1 and ride 48-50 cm frames fine. But I seem to have long arms & a long torso - 'cause I like about a 540 cm toptube. I briefly had a 50 cm trek 1500 wsd with 650 wheels and a really short top tube, and I really hated that bike because of how short the top tube was.

I am barely 5' 1" and have had 2 wsd bikes with 650 wheels. The second one was a Trek 5200 (precursor to the Madone) 47 cm. I had no issues with this bike. It rode very well.
I now have an x small size Kuota Kebel (not wsd), which is 48 cm. and has 700 wheels. I put 165 mm cranks, and the Specialized wsd bars on (short and shallow drop) in 38 cm, along with the Shimano R700 brakes/shifters. The bike fits me fine and I actually think I could go up to 40 cm bars in this model. I have a 28.5 inseam, if that's any help. I suspect my torso may not be as short as other "petite" sized women. My Kuota has a slightly sloping top tube, as opposed to the Trek, so I think that made a difference. However, it is not as sloping as the Giant bike my friend rides.
Unless you have some special reason, the hype about 650 vs. 700 wheels is just that: hype. I don't ride super aggressively, so toe overlap is not an issue. I ordered tubes from Performance when I had the 650 wheels and I had no issue getting them. There was less of a choice in tires, but I am not so concerned with that.

I ride a 19" (48cm) Terry Isis with 650cc wheels. Prior to that, I had a 49cm Fugi Roubaix with 700cc wheels and then a 44cm Specialized Dolce Comp also with 700 cc wheels.

Personally, I like the 650's. I like how they look on the smaller frame (the bike looks more in proportion) and I like how they ride. While I'm sure it has a lot to do with bike fit, frame material and general geometry, my Isis just rides better. It's way more responsive and quicker off the line than my other two bikes were. Because of my small profile, I'm also a bullet in descents (when I don't scare myself into breaking!)...even more so than my heavier husband.

I have no issues finding either tires or tubes (or wheels). I even got a flat during an MS150 a few years back and the SAG had a spare tube for me. 650's are popular enough these days that finding performance oriented gear is easy. It would probabaly be harder to find wider tires or touring type wheels in that size, but since mine is my 'go fast' road bike, it's not an issue for me.

My commuter has two different sized wheels. Now THAT is a pain. Two 650's? No biggie. ;)

[QUOTE=Jaclyn;439329]Littlebit, where are you located? I live in northwest Ohio and would be happy to let you ride my small 650 wheeled bikes.

Thanks Jaclyn but I live in central NJ....
My LBS gave me some good advice about proper fit but I think his advice about trying to avoid 650s is off the mark.

My husband had a fitting from Serrota. He did not buy a Serrota but was given exact measurements on how to set up a stock bike of his choice and it worked out very well. I may go that route

I'm not too worried about the budget. My husband has no problems spending money on biking but should I buy a new pair of shoes!!...well you know:D

[QUOTE=littlebit;439413]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jaclyn

Littlebit, where are you located? I live in northwest Ohio and would be happy to let you ride my small 650 wheeled bikes.

Thanks Jaclyn but I live in central NJ....
My LBS gave me some good advice about proper fit but I think his advice about trying to avoid 650s is off the mark.

My husband had a fitting from Serrota. He did not buy a Serrota but was given exact measurements on how to set up a stock bike of his choice and it worked out very well. I may go that route

I'm not too worried about the budget. My husband has no problems spending money on biking but should I buy a new pair of shoes!!...well you know:D

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Definitely get a bike fit. Knowing what you need in a fit will prevent you from making a costly mistake. You appear unsure of the right sta. for you. it's important to know what you need. If you get the wrong sta you can't get a good fit on the bike. Pushing the saddle forward or back or changing seatposts won't make the fit better if the sta isn't correct for you.

I'm 5'1 and went through 3 road bikes and 3 mtn bikes before I realized the I have a short femur and need a steep sta on my bikes. My bikes never felt right and through a process of elimination, and lots of money spent on bikes, I finally got a bike fitting which confirmed my need for a steep sta. I also have a longer torso but short arms. The short arms require a longer head tube than most stock frames provide. I now ride a custom Serotta.

I specified 650 wheels on my custom frame. I was spending a lot of money on it and didn't want to compromise fit or handling. The smaller wheels on the small frame looks proportional and most people don't realize I have 650's. I have no issues getting tires or tubes and the mechanics on tours I have been on have 650 tubes available.

Be sure the saddles are appropriate for you. Last year I bought a saddle that I thought was the right size for me. This spring I had my bike fit rechecked and it turned out the shape of my saddle was wrong for me. I ended up with a Specialized Ruby.

I also recommend custom but I understand the wait time for SweetPea is 2 years. Don't know about Luna's wait time.

Good luck finding a bike, I know how hard it is when you're small.

I tried and Terry once -- 19". I could not clear the standover; the bike was too short; the bike felt and handled like a toy!

My 19" mixte was too long. It handles sluggishly, but descends hills like a bullet. Forget about climbing, it's too heavy. The brakes were too slow and too big for my hands.

I sold a 46 cm Raleigh years ago -- I did not fully clear the top tube. It was modified to fit better, but a size 13 stem was excessive and made the bike handling "squirrelly." I also have big foot for my size and that bike had too much toe overlap -- probably because the cranks were long 175 mm's for climbing leverage.

I have a custom-built titanium and steel bike that did everything well except climb. It had low gears to get up steep hills, but the climbing took a long time. This is my spare event bike. I can use a 170 mm crank on this bike and I do not touch the front wheel.

I have a 46 cm Raleigh now, and Raleigh no longer offers this size frame -- however the same size is available in Diamondbacks and other makes that buy frames from the same factory in Taiwan. The 700 wheels have a good bit of toe-overlap. Sometimes the bike feels too short. I put a rack and panniers on it, but it does not balance that steadily for a heavier load. This bike cannot handle a longer crank.

I have a 48 cm compact Specialized Ruby that fits well when the stem is sized up 1 cm. The bike has toe-overlap (Specialized tries to minimized front wheel touching but my feet are just 1.5 cm too long!) which precludes cranks longer than 165 mm.

All small bikes compromise. the only tires available for 650 road wheels are 23 mm wide, whereas 700 mm road wheels will take 20 mm, 23 mm, 25 mm and even 28 mm tires. Wider 700 mm wheels handle 25 mm, 28 mm, 32 mm and 38 mm tires.

Choose your compromise or go to a custom builder like Harry Havnoonian or Steve Bilenky who have good reps for making small bikes that perform well.

FYI; the terry tellus is great 650c tire available in 28mm widths:

http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2147

Littlebit -

How has it been going? Did you ever get the Pro Fit?

I did today - I'm 5 feet. The guy was commenting on how long my femur was. My inseam length is 70cm. My torso and arm is the same size.

After he did all the mathematics and plugging in the computer. He found the Jamis Venura Elite (with 700c wheels) will fit perfectly. There may be a small clearance issues, but it not such a big deal (at least that's what he says).

I asked him about the Felt because that will fit me as well, but then he explained that the ST angle is too much, and I would end up being more uncomfortable bending my body more than I should (short top tube).

There are bikes out there, but like everyone says, it all has to do with your dimensions and how you will bend over.

I can't wait to order my bike! :-)

So have you decided on a bike yet?

I have the Ruby (44cm) and I'm 5'1" with 70cm (27.5") inseam. My LBS switched my stem to a shorter one. Everything is working beautifully. I love my Ruby. I don't have the toe overlapping issue but I wear size 5.5 shoes too. Don't know if others have any problems with that.

I also went to a physio therapist who is also a professional bike fitter for tri athletes. He sack up my shoes and till my seat nose down a bit. He suggested that I get a 165mm crank which I've yet to do but that's something to think about.

Have you test ride a 44cm Ruby?

I test rode the Trek 47cm last year. I found it I was stretching way too far and wasn't very comfortable after awhile.

I didn't read all the replies, but did you find a bike that fits you properly?
Please tell me that your old Giant was AT LEAST an XS, not a small. If it was a small then I am 99% sure the LBS that sold it to you because they are either A) Morons B) had no clue c) needed to get rid of the small... Or all three.
I don't even need your measurements to tell you a size small is WAY to big for someone who is 5'.

I am 5'1" and the 47cm Felt I ordered for myself was WAY to big. But I am short in every way. Arms, legs, torso.

Depending on the bike I ride between a 44 and a 46. And I have 650 wheels and love them! I don't know why people are so anti 650. There are still a decent selection of 650 tires out there. And being on the small side I like the feeling of riding a bit closer to the ground. My flat bar roadie is a 700c bike and I always feel like I'm riding in a jacked up 4x 4 pickup.

Just got my New Serotta. The fit is perfect! All I can about the ride is WOW!:D

She's a beauty! The cat seems to like it, too!

Welcome to the Serotta club! :) Your bike is beautiful. Which model did you get?

Effective top tube measurement is the one to look at I think. Nowadays the seattube size which manufacturers always quote isn't much help as some bikes are compact (sloping), some are not. & some are in between. I am just over 5' & ride a Serotta 46p w/ 650c wheels (no longer made I think) - it has a 48.5cm effective top tube (ie; measured on the horizontal). Find a good fitter who can tell you what top tube length you should look for & then make a list . . . Or get a custom made. It's really really miserable being too stretched out - you won't feel safe, your saddle will likely be uncomfortable & in the end you will probably put on a really short stem to try & fix it. Then the bike will likely be a bit twitchy. How do I know all these things? Take a guess - I have done it before!!

Also think about crank length - TA do 160mm. Also handlebar reach (ie' the amount they go forwards) - also reach of sti or ergos. The new ultegra & Dura ace have reach adjustment I believe - I just used shims to bring them super close to the bars.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Kathi

Welcome to the Serotta club! :) Your bike is beautiful. Which model did you get?

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Hi...It's the Fierte..Steel Frame Carbon Fork...Ultegra Compact Double...Just a shade over 18lbs..Knapps Cycles in NJ did a great job in fitting me and building up the bike..

Great Choice!