What would you have done--creepy follower (long)

This afternoon, I decided to do a short recovery ride just in the area around my neighborhood. I live in suburban Atlanta, a place where there are many cyclists, walkers, children, dogs, etc. I was traveling on a moderately busy two-lane road when I noticed a beat up van behind me. He was following just behind me for a little while. When the traffic in the other lane cleared, I motioned for him to go around. Nothing doing. Finally about 1/3 of a mile down, he turned off into a church parking lot. Another half mile or so, I turned onto a less busy, neighborhood road. A few minutes later, he was behind me again. I was really starting to feel uneasy, and I was about 3/4 mile from any high traffic area. So, I turned onto a cul-de-sac street where one of my friends lives, hoping she would be home. He followed me. (I know this was probably a big mistake). I immediately went to the back of her house as if I lived there. He made a turn in the cul-de-sac. Of course my friend was not home, so I waited about 5 minutes and ventured back out. About half way down the street, this guy was parked on the side of the road. I was terrified, so I went back to my friend's house. I called my husband first to come get me, then 911. Of course, by the time my husband got there (which wasn't long), this guy was gone.

Should I have ridden on to get to a busier area? This is an area that I would never have hesitated to walk or ride--lots of nice houses and generally people out and about. However, today this road was absolutely deserted. DH says I should have called 911 immediately. In retrospect, I agree, but I really didn't know this was going to get so creepy. I really feel as if I weren't on guard and generally feel like an idiot. Now my husband is worried about me riding alone, even on my neighborhood streets.

What would you have done differently?

Personally, I can't dial a phone and ride at the same time. I absolutely would not have got off my bike. Without knowing more about the neighborhood, I can't say what I might have done. But getting to a busier area would've been high on the list.

That said, I had a nearly identical experience years ago - except that it was before dawn, before cell phones, and I was running, so my range and speed were much more limited. I too was terrified. Until I noticed that the van was delivering newspapers. :o

I think you did your best. Next time get his license plate number if you can.
Stop, turn around (so you can see his plates) and call 911.
that's what I'd do. someone else probably has better advice for you.

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Originally Posted by skinimini

What would you have done differently?

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I would have produced a Magnum 57 from my skort.

I was in the same situation when I was 14 or so. A man was following me with his car for at least 15 mins (which seemed like ages). The first house I saw I acted like it was 'mine'. I opened the gate, took my bike and parked it against the house and walked around the house. I waited for a good 15 mins and the guy was gone.

that was ofcourse long before cellphones excisted. :)

I don't think there is an absolute right or wrong...but I think you did well under the circumstances.

I encourage you to contact your friend and let her know...this guy followed you to her house and may be have that house on a radar now.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Silver

I encourage you to contact your friend and let her know...this guy followed you to her house and may be have that house on a radar now.

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You're absolutely right about that. I certainly didn't think about that issue.

My husband continues to think I wasn't vigilant enough, and he may be right. I'll certainly be from now on.

I'm also really ticked off that jerk was able to ruin my afternoon. :mad:

First off, congrats on your observation skills. Thats 99% off getting a**holes like this guy off the street and keeping yourself safe. Don't let this guy chase you out of your riding spot. A license plate number would have been a huge help to the police. I hope they look for him. If this ever happens again, make no secret of the fact that YOU see him. If you have a camera on your phone, take a photo of him. Most guys are trying to act tough in the safety of their car and want to try to make you uncomfortable. I would let your friends in the area know about the car. Find a friend to ride with for a while if you are feeling uneasy. It's no fun to be looking over your shoulder all day.

I can ride and dial 911 - or at least ride and pretend to dial 911 - and just pulling out a cell phone could cause the creep to look for another victim. I love bike jersey pockets - so handy - no zippers, no fumbling, the phone is always in it's own pocket so I know how to get it, and also know I won't lose it getting out a snack, etcl I hate seeing vans parked on the roadside of my favorite climb. the vehicle of choice for kidnapping. Scary! Tokie

Most cell phones allow you to program 911 by holding down a button, look into that. And because you went to your friend's house unfortunately you may have put her at risk. We had a thief here who followed people on rides to case the house. So best your friend knows about the situation. I would have called 911 and given as much information as I could. Even if I could only say "he is in a white toyota". Of course for some reason I am freakishly good at picking model and approximate year of cars but still practing even a partial plate.

Tell your husband to not badger you too much about how you should have handled it, that is why they say hindsight is 20-20. Learn from the incident and warm thoughts heading your way!

Hi~
I ride pretty much every day and though I have a few occurances where I felt like something wasn't 'right' there has only been a time (maybe two) where things got creepy enough that I unclipped, stopped and immediately pulled out my cellphone. Once I pulled out my cellphone, the creep whom I believed was following me sped up. Though I wasn't actually dialing a number, it makes me wonder if the fact that he/she (I hate to place the blame totally on men without proof~~tho, I 'bet' it was a guy checking me out) saw me on my phone (and thus able to yell and give pertinent info. on their description and their vehicle) made them think twice of following me. It was along a highway where there was no possiblility of them delivering mail or checking out houses, etc. I truly believe they were following me for 'some' reason and once they realized I wouldn't tolerate it, they took off. Cellphones are great for more than the call for "I have a flat am am way too exhausted to change it. PLEASE come and get me." NEVER go on a ride without one! :) Plus, trust your instincts. Ride safely, fellow cycling friend.

Thanks for all of your advice and empathy. I was able to give a fairly good description of the van to the emergency operators. However, not ever being behind him, I didn't get a license plate number. I just wanted to hide at all costs. I doubt a situation like this will ever come up again, but if it does, I'll be certain to whip out the cell phone first and try, try, try to get to a busier area.

On the weekends, I most always ride with a group. During the week, with my friends' conflicting work schedules, it's not always feasible. I really try to be safe and ride in those places with lots of activity. I never thought for a minute that a short ride around my neighborhood (especially on a busy Sunday afternoon) could have been dangerous. To this point in my short biking experience, my concern has been more with traffic issues and staying safe than worrying about some psycho/sociopath wandering around our streets. Lots of lessons learned today.

Well, another good reason not to have a flip phone. Maybe I'm uncoordinated, but there's no way I could get my phone out of its plastic bag and open the hinge while riding, never mind dialing it. One more year on my contract...

I really, really think it's a bad idea to dismount or stop in a dicey situation like that. In cycling shoes you can't run, you can't really even walk efficiently. Half clipped in, you're a sitting duck attached to your bike. Even if you're a quick-thinking triathlete who can get out of her shoes and run barefoot in nothing flat, your top speed running is going to be maybe half or a third of what it would be on the bike. Never mind that while obviously your personal safety is more important than ANY property, it doesn't make sense to abandon your only means of escape, to potential thieves. Still, it wouldn't be a bad idea for all of us to work on skills like curb-jumping and off-roading, for the usual reasons primarily, but also to be able to get where a car can't follow.

Re: keeping phone in an unzippered pocket, there was a thread on here a couple of months ago where someone lost their phone out of a jersey pocket. I'm always afraid of that happening when I'm head down, butt up.

On the flip side, my first thought was of him running you off the road with the van then tossing you inside. Of course, pulling into a subdivision left you cornered. It's easy to Monday-morning quarterback. You did the best you could with the knowledge you had. I like the idea that came up here the other day--at least pull out your phone and make it LOOK LIKE you are taking their picture. I hope this doesn't scare you off the road. When I used to run, I left notes saying what time I left, where I went and when I should be back--guess I should still do that.

Sinimini: Glad you are ok and here to tell us about the experience. It is a reminder to be more aware, for sure. I had a similar situation running -- and I did exactly what you did -- went into a cul-de-sac where I knew someone and he didn't follow. Very scary, however. I wasn't sure when I could safely go back out on the road -- she actually offered to drive me, but I wanted to finish my run. (stupid looking back :rolleyes:). anyway -- good for you for doing what you did. Getting off your bike on the road for any reason would have been the wrong thing, I think.

You have to do what feels right at the time. You didn't have alot of time to think about things, you did what you thought was best. I probably would have done the same. Its unfortunate that there are so many creeps aka wierdos out there and we are all such creatures of habit. Thanks for reminding us that we need to be very watchful.

Glad that you are ok. Since you are ok you did the best thing that you could do. :D :) Don't second guess yourself.

The cul de sac thing, yeah, in self defense always "leave an out". :cool: But once more you are ok so you done good!! :)

The advantage bikes have over cars is movement. If someone is behind you.... stop ... turn around and look him right in the eye. Don't run.

Once aware of the situation or a possible threat you don't want him behind you. :mad:

My one bit of feedback was that in a way you let him chase you. Never let him take you to another location. Wherever you are my theory is best to stay put and fight. :mad: or in your case observe from the busier street.

But you done good!!!

Move AT them, or look. Many will leave simply being observed. I try diagonally in such a way I can see them and what's going on as I move away. "hey, I see you and I'm going that way, but I could just as easily reach you" :mad:

Don't beat yourself up or allow anyone else to do so. In the heat of the moment when there is fear and adreneline you did the best you could.

You did great!!!!

Bottom line you are ok so you did the right thing. :cool: Good description for the cops too.

I'll tell you a funny story about self defense and angles and facing them or not or ....
Long ago when my mutt was young we went for a walk. We walked down the hill, turned left which would take us on quiet streets and to a park. As we turned off the street a young dude across the street decided to cross the busy street and he fell in behind us. Coincidence? Maybe. I decided to turn right so he would be in my sight but not behind us ... what's he do? Turns right, now he's behind me again. Now this is getting annoying, we turn left so he's to my side and the street is curving back towards busy street and whadya know young dude turns left and is behind us again.

Coincidence? Maybe but I've had it.

I said "Mae, watch me" dog looks up at me.
"Mae, turn!" dog does a sharp about face.
"Mae, sit!" Mae's butt drops to the ground and looks up for her next command as I look at dude.

He ran :p

"Good dog, Mae" :D

Trek - 2nd degree black belt in Aikido - 420

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Originally Posted by skinimini

Lots of lessons learned today.

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...and now you've had an opportunity to think about, and be prepared for, what to do if confronted with this again...and several other women on here are doing it as well.;)

Frankly, I think your instinct, alertness, and presence of mind in this situation was outstanding.:cool:

A similar thing happened to me in the '70s when I was about 14-15. No phones, of course. I managed to evade him and he didn't see where I lived. I never saw him again.

I DID get the plates and the make/model of the car, only because he followed me for a long time, and he would go ahead and then wait for me to pass again.

The only thing I would suggest you might have done, that I could have done, was immediately double back towards wherever you could have felt safe. In my case I was leaving the park after playing tennis, and my only choice would have been to go to my tennis partner's house and try to lose him in traffic on the way. Where I lived there was no traffic, but I could have lost him on the way to her house and ducked in somewhere.

I think I did everything it would have been logical to do based on what I knew at the time. I spent the next year looking for that car! Never saw it again. If I were you I'd keep a lookout too, and don't wait...just call 911.

Don't feel bad. You did everything it seemed reasonable to do.

Karen

I think you did well -- first to notice the possible stalker, and second to take action. It's not easy to make a perfect decision in the heat of the moment, so I wouldn't second-guess myself if I were you.

It's good that you posted here because it helps the rest of us think through what we would do, and to be more prepared if something bad happens.

Pam

Speaking of 911 for most of us if you dial 911 from a cell phone you get highway patrol. Then a transfer or two or three later you get your local police, fire, medical.

These dispatchers do a tremendous job but for most of us while I hope we never ever need it pleeeeeeease put the local pots (that's plain ol' telephone service) numbers for police, fire and medical in your cell for where you live, work and ride.

Those of you with only a cell and no land line this is doubly important.

As someone who as worked in law enforcement (911 dispatcher for over 20 years) I have this to offer. First off, try and ride to the most populated area you can find. The more people around the better! Call 911 as soon as you possibly can, if you can get a plate, great, if not don't put yourself in jeopardy to get it. Just try and give us the best description of the veh and/or person that you can. Make note of anything that may stand out, a dent, bumper sticker, anything!!! Try and stay on the line with 911 so you can give additional information in case the vehicle/person starts to leave the area, let us know direction of travel, etc.

As for where your cell phone 911 call gets routed to, that is going to vary from state to state and where the designated call taker center for that area is. Here in CT, 911 calls get routed to the 911 center that is closest to the cell phone tower that picks up the call, and as a backup in case of a routing glitch it will go to the nearest state police barracks and then routed to the correct PD.

just want to add, that Treks advise about entering the routine number for your PD in your cell phone is a very good one! There have been a few times when I have had to call something in while driving and while it isn't a 911 emergency is something that should be reported so I can just flip to my address book and press dial.

I have 3 towns that I drive through back and forth to work every day and I have each of those numbers in my phone and have had occasion to use each one at least once to report stuff

Great thread...I ride alone most of the time, and the tips offered above are ones that I'll definitely incorporate into my riding habits from now on. I'm usually focused on cars/trucks purely from the potential collision standpoint. Thank you for making me aware of other possible dangers, too!

Wow, that's scary. I think you did a lot better than I would have in that situation. I'm not sure I would have even noticed there was someone following me. And I think your idea of turning onto your friend's street made perfect sense at the time, especially if they had been home. My first instinct would have been to find the nearest house of someone I knew (if there weren't businesses around). I, too, ride alone most of the time, so I will take the tips here with me. A very informative thread!

I have the local sheriff, police departments and the 911 function enabled on my phone. The sheriff is the most helpful because the cities like to "hot potato" if you are in their jurisdiction. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by NoNo

I'm not sure I would have even noticed there was someone following me.

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And another reason to regularly check your rear-view mirror!

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

And another reason to regularly check your rear-view mirror!

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I don't have one:(

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Originally Posted by KathiCville

I'm usually focused on cars/trucks purely from the potential collision standpoint. Thank you for making me aware of other possible dangers, too!

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Great thread! And again, glad everything is ok, you done good!

I don't want us to worry about everything that could happen along the road. Nor should our random thoughts be "pothole, unleashed dog, car back, gotta read the license plates backwards of the cars behind me .... ooooh, it's pretty out! where's my escape route from here?"

The best self defense is get out there and ride looking fabulous, confident, aware, and strong enough to kick some @zz if it came to that because we are. :cool:

Get outside and ride!

I have been in this situation, and I always drove into a highly populated area, shopping plaza, etc., and then texted the license plate number to my husband w a brief note on what is going on. Usually that makes the creep drive away, so I never felt threatened enough to call 911, but obviously that is a judgement call you need to make in the specific situation.

Skinimini, I think you reacted perfectly. There is a book called The Gift of Fear

http://www.amazon.com/Gift-Fear-Surv...5080914&sr=8-1

which DH made me read and although it is scary in some parts, it is right on for this kind of incident. You felt threatened and scared and you reacted VERY WELL and very normally. I think under the circumstances that you did exactly what you should.

I am wondering if just using the cell so that the person knows you are calling someone would be enough to get them off your route. Also, if possible (and safely) take a photo of the car and perhaps that would scare them away. Even if you can't get to the camera part of the phone easily, you could LOOK like you were taking one.

This is a great thread and as one who also rides alone on a regular basis(but hopefully less now that DH is retired), I now have some very good ideas of what to do. Thanks to all for the good suggestions.

Act confident, ladies, and read the book!

This is such great advice for all of us, and advice I've already taken to heart. I've programmed the local PD number in my phone. Fortunately, the 911 operators stayed on the phone with me until my husband arrived. We only live about 5 minutes away by car, so my husband arrived quickly. In fact, the local PD called last evening just to check in. After I made the call, they surveilled the area, but of course, no one was to be seen. The interstate is only a couple of minutes away.

I've talked to my friend and asked her to pass on the information to her neighbors. I never thought to take his picture, but it would have been very easy and my phone is very accessible, right on the handlebars. The confrontation scenario sounds like a good idea, and probably just enough to make him turn tail and run.

I won't let this one incident interfere with my future rides, but I will certainly be more vigilant. I don't have a set schedule or route, so I'm not so worried about people picking up on a pattern. Of course, I can't really know his motivation or intentions, but he probably wasn't targeting me specifically. More likely, he thought he would have some sick fun scaring the pants off of a middle aged woman. :mad:

On an entirely different note: one good thing to come out of this is I learned very quickly how to get my front tire off and back on securely (no bike rack on DH's car) As many times as I've seen it done, never had to do it. There's a first time for everything!

We are all vulnerable to attack once in a while. During my vacation to Spain last week, I had a situation which luckily ended well. A man approached me, asked if I spoke English, and asked me to help him find a street on his map. My guard was already slightly up, but I apprehensively began to look at his map. We were suddenly approached by another man, who held out a badge and said "police" and asked to see our passports. I immediately got a rush of adrenaline and fear. Somehow, I got control of that, and asked to see the "policeman's" badge again (he had put it away really quickly). He took it out, and it was not a metal badge, but a patch. He was not in uniform. It just felt wrong, so I said "no!" really firmly, and quickly walked away.

I did not look back at first, but I was ready to run and/or yell my head off if I heard them coming towards me. I got out of there safely. When I did look back, they were gone. I have since read about similar scams, where they impersonate police to rob tourists, on the State Dept website.

You did great. Going to your friend's house shows you were thinking, considering your options, and you chose the one that made the most sense. The rush of adrenaline can be either incredibly powerful or immobilizing for me. I have been "frozen with fear" once in my life when I was a teenager, and I've held my head on several other occasions since then.

Always, always, always trust your instinct. When you feel like you're being followed, don't talk yourself out of it, and convince yourself it's your imagination. That's really easy to do. You're better off being embarrassed for being wrong than finding out you were right.

redrhodie, police badges in Europe are never in metal. But your instinct was right, a lot of crooks present themselves to foreigners as policemen.

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Originally Posted by papaver

redrhodie, police badges in Europe are never in metal. But your instinct was right, a lot of crooks present themselves to foreigners as policemen.

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I did not know that. As I was walking away, I though if this guy is an actual cop, he might arrest me, but then at least I'll know he's legit.

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Originally Posted by redrhodie

I did not know that. As I was walking away, I though if this guy is an actual cop, he might arrest me, but then at least I'll know he's legit.

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You don't get that easily arrested in Europe. :D But I'm pretty sure your insticts were right, so you did a good thing. :cool:

Another story (not cycling related), one of my best friends got assaulted one day when she wanted to retreive some money out of the machine. But she had a rubbish day all day long, and a guy had the genious idea to try to rob her with an iron stick. Before he even got the chance to take a swing she just grabbed this iron bar and hit him with it. He ran as fast as he could, and now that bar is hanging on her wall like it was a trophy. :D

And you have to know, she is a petite skinny little thing. :D

A colleague once poked Trek in the back pretending to try to rob her while Trek was at an ATM. Trek has a 2nd degree black belt in Aikido, so in a fraction of a second that jokester gal was on her face on the sidewalk with her arm bent behind her back getting an earfull about what does NOT make for a good joke. :cool:

I didn't quite throw her. My office used to be in Berkeley next to BART the bank and really good food. :p I was at the ATM getting a $20 to meet our mutual niece for lunch. When I felt something hard, round like a pipe or gun pointed in the small of my back and a woman said. "Give me your money this is a stick up" :eek:

For a nano second the following went through my head. :rolleyes:
She's got to be kidding, this is downtown Berkeley
What if she's not?
This is a busy intersection, nobody would do this here!
What if she's nuts?
That's a woman, women don't do this kinda thing
Well, right now one is.
WTF is that cold hard thing at my back?

Then I think :rolleyes: I gotta do something. I mean if it's a gun I can't die just standing here :( if I do I'll never get to meet Knott :p

With a weapon your response must be get the he]] off the line in other words MOVE :cool: What I do next depends on what's behind. Options include (inside joke to Duck "amoung our weaponry are such diverse options as fear, surprise and a fanatical devotion to the Pope. Nooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition" ;)) a strike to the face as I do kotogaishi (in which she gets flung azz over teakettle backwards as arm, wrist, elbow break) if it's her left hand maybe iriminage (face planted into the ATM, devastating throw).

Aikido is such a peaceful non violent dance-like martial art :D

With a yell I whirled instantly, my right hand was in her face as the left had her in a pin, off balance and starting kotogaishi as I realised .... this is my coworker :mad:

I held her up :) :cool: but she was off balance knew she could go down hard.

But she never hit the ground. :)

Her mother there too and was behind her, her laughter at the prank turned to shock as she repeated over and over and over again:
OMG, you just moved
OMG, you just spun around
OMG, you just moved ....
we're sorry, we're sorry ....

Yep, you don't know how sorry you almost were :cool:

The next day I brought in pictures of my dan test, me throwing one of our udansha (higher rank black belt) and explaining "see this 6'5 guy I'm throwing? That would have been next for you, not on a fluffy matt, on cement. Don't do things like this to people, you don't know if they are armed, trained, if someone nearby who is will come to their aid or if they will simply collapse in a fetal position on the street and have a breakdown. It's not funny:mad: "

So .... the take home lesson and you don't need to be a nidan for this is:

:cool: trust your gut, if it feels odd it sometimes is. Better the embarassment of throwing a coworker or reversing a ride than consequences of not trusting your gut.

:cool: What do you do? Move! MAKE NOISE!!! Do something. Always options to do and no matter what there is always stuff you can move.

BTW I was very shaken by this, the adrenaline was such that I went to lunch still shaking with fear and rage. In the moment and doing the moves no, calm, centered, swift, certain.

But afterward shaken to the core.

Duck and my niece is a lawyer and I asked her about this. She said had I thrown the gal there would be no consequences to me, no judge or jury could have faulted me for thinking I was facing mortal danger.

But I made the right decision in pulling the throw.

I love what I do as an art and as always I hope never to need this training again.