knees

ok, so once upon a time, my husband was told that cycling would strengthen his knees, and would be absolutely vital to keeping him from ending up in surgery again. And it's true. He now has beautifullly muscled knees and to see him walk or ride you'd never know he's had 3 knee surgeries.

So why are my knees always hurting after a ride? It's not like I'm not in shape; i don't believe i'm over doing it. I'm supposedly training for a couple rides (in a couple weeks!) but even after 34 mile ride with 1500 feet of altitude gain, I am sore the next day. It's generalized pain around the knee area; nothing specific, and it hurts to sit, feels better to walk. (I got a foot bench which sits under my desk and helps)

If I try to push too big of a gear while climbing my knees hurt. If it's cold my knees hurt. If I sit too long my knees hurt. And I'm only 42!

Veronica

Any time I use the big gear more than just a teeny bit, my knees get achy later that day and when I wake up the next morning. If I combine that with going up and down the stairs in my house or walking/running, it will morph into something more.
Hence, I rarely use the big gear.

Could it be that your crank is too wide or too narrow, or your cleats are a bit mis-aligned for your knees?

If my cleats are a bit off I can feel it in my knees.

Perhaps a professional bike fitting would help. I know they can be pricey, but it might be worth it in the long run.

There are so many reasons that a tome could be written. Bike fit, cleat position, q-factor, chronic muscular-skeletal issues, genetics, skeletal structure, pushing too big a gear, etc. Nobody here can give you an answer, only a bazillion guesses.

I'd read Andy Pruitt's and Arnie Baker's books, get multiple someone's to check your bike fit and talk to an orthopod. You may be stuck with it (I am with chronic chondromalacia) but you can't hope to fix the problem if you don't know what it is. And no one here can diagnose over the net.

I have Pruitt's book, and I have been professionally fitted and refitted, thanks. In the past you guys told me to slow down for a bit and that helped. I am thinking it goes with the territory. I'll mention it to my doctor when I see her later this month.

Thanks everyone.

What SK said...

but, when you were fitted, did they check crankarm length? With my knees, alignment can be perfect, but if I'm flexing my knees too much at the top of the stroke, I'm going to have problems.

If my seat height is wrong or crankarm length - I definitely feel it more in my knees.

If I do start having knee pain on a ride (I adjust seat height or whatever if it's something like that), I start gearing down and stay geared down and spin more, which tends to make things nicer for my knees.

it's possible my seat has shifted, but yes, i was meticulously measured for crank arm length, all that stuff.

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

it's possible my seat has shifted, but yes, i was meticulously measured for crank arm length, all that stuff.

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Shorter cranks are just easier on the knees, less leverage & range of motion for the knees. So while you were measured for what should be right - it doesn't mean that shorter cranks wouldn't help. If someone has bad knees to begin with (not that I'm saying you do), regardless of whether they fit 175 mm cranks, smaller cranks are going to be easier on their knees
http://www.roble.net/marquis//crank.length

Maybe just try riding at an easier gear than your normally do for a bit and see if that makes things easier?

Catriona, it doesn't help that sometimes I am just in the wrong gear, and that's usually going to happen when i'm trying to climb a hill. I am certainly taking suggestions under advisement. I wrote to my PT guy and I will mention it to my dr.

I don't know if this helps - but do your rides start off with a nice flat section or do you start climbing hills immediately? If I ride out of my house, I've got about a 4 mile flat section before I have any hills, and I find that really helps to get me warmed up and my muscles loosened.

If I ride out of my bf's house, it's 2-3 miles of hill climbs immediately, and it kills me even though it's really not that hard a hill. My knees & muscles just don't like immediately starting to climb.

I was thinking about you yesterday - Sunday I biked out from the bf's and my right knee was tight & achy the entire time, I just couldn't get it loosened up. I rode out from my house yesterday, the knee started out tight, but it eventually loosened up after the warm up and felt fine the rest of the ride.

I need to try getting on the trainer and actually warming up before riding out from his house and seeing if it makes it start off easier.

I told him he needed to move or I needed a new bf

the first block i ride is 6% grade up. then it levels off for 3 blocks and then at the top of the 4th block, it's about 11-12% grade. then i go down hill for the rest of the ride (to work). Coming home, I have 2 miles before I get to the 6-8% grade that lasts about 1/4 of a mile. plus some little overpass humps as well.

That 11-12% grade downhill home bound is always very sweet.

So although I can choose some non-hilly rides, i can't NOT do a hill for starters.

DH looked at me and stated that he thought my saddle was in the right place. (It's certainly comfortable where it is!)

I'm out of ideas, I hope you figure it out! I sometimes pre-dose with ibuprofen before a ride.

If you knees hurt equally after riding to work vs. coming home from work, then it's probably not needing a warm up.

Thanks Cat!
I do appreciate your suggestions, I am waiting to hear back from the PT guy.
(i guess this is his busiest month of the year, which is why i didn't bother to try and make an appt.)

I thought my knee problems were all weight related, then when I lost weight and worked out regularly for 2 years I thought it was over working them or the cycling. I spent a lot of time just rubbing my knees absently when I was sitting down; protecting them from extreme range of motion; only going up the stairs if absolutely had to. Nothing I did helped, but it kind of came and went and I could never pin it down to one thing.

I finally gave up and went to the doctor. He did xrays. I have osteoarthritis in my knees. What I read is that if you have generalized knee pain like that, it's probably arthritis. Women are more likely to get knee problems. My cushions are worn down on the medial sides of both joints. I'm on a prescription anti-inflammatory (Mobic/meloxicam) once a day, and I like it a lot. Now I can overwork them and only have a little pain. :P I do lots of knee strengthening exercises at the suggestion of the PT who runs my gym. He says I got it from being weak and out of shape for so long.

My knees are never going to get any better, but I can strengthen them and mitigate the effects. Ow, my knees are hurting right now!

Karen

Mimi-

Could you need to tension your Brooks? Just thinking that that could change your fit ever so slightly (but enough to make a difference...). I know mine just caused some serious damage of another form because it had started to break in a bit too much:eek::rolleyes:

CA

I'm not sure what's causing your knee pain because everyone is different but after 13 knee surgeries I took up riding a little over a year ago. Luckily my ortho is also a biker and gave me great advice...keep riding because it strengthens the surrounding muscles which help keep your knees working and be aware of your knees - the instant you feel a ping, twinge or stab drop gears even if it's on the flats. Every day is different for all joints and muscles so what gear you ride in one day or what speed may not be good for another. Oh- and popping two extra strength tylenol before the ride isn't a bad idea either!

Geez, Tuckerville, you sound like me! (that's probably what it is, arthritis.) mild pain relievers do help, but i HATE taking medication, so i generally do not. And yes, I've been known to take advil before a ride (and will on the two big rides I am planning later this month)

CA, yes, it's possible my seat needs tensioning. When Erik saw me last time he tightened it.

I have a doctor's appointment for later this month.

Carol, thanks for the good advice. GEEZ, 13 surgeries!

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

Geez, Tuckerville, you sound like me! (that's probably what it is, arthritis.) mild pain relievers do help, but i HATE taking medication, so i generally do not. And yes, I've been known to take advil before a ride (and will on the two big rides I am planning later this month)

CA, yes, it's possible my seat needs tensioning. When Erik saw me last time he tightened it.

I have a doctor's appointment for later this month.

Carol, thanks for the good advice. GEEZ, 13 surgeries!

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Hey Mimi let us know how you get on at the doctor.
Another tip for those pesky knees is to keep them covered unless its warmer than 70 degrees. I think I got this tip out of Andy Pruitt's book and adding it to all the other stuff about spinning up hills etc it seems to help in managing my knee pain.

Well, I am starting to suspect my saddle does need to be tensioned. (is that a verb?) the last two days I deliberately pushed back on the seat and i had less knee pain. maybe the saddle slumped pushing me too far forward?
I can't find our tensioner wrench, i might have to go to the LBS.

Mimi, what kind of pain are you having? Dull? Sharp? Intermittent?
Any redness, fever, or swelling in the joint?
Any stiffness off the bike?
Does it hurt after doing other activities, like walking?

You may be suffering from osteoarthritis. If that's the case the doctor will generally prescribe an anti-inflammatory (such as ibuprofen), elevating the knee, and applying a cold pack after exercise if there is swelling present. Generally, cycling is still recommended for diseased knees and the patient is usually counseled to exercise as tolerated. Swimming is the other option. :) Your doctor will probably prescribe a set of exercises to do in home as physical therapy or send you to a PT clinic for evaluation and treatment.

If you are having swelling in other joints, such as elbows, fingers, wrists, your doctor may check for auto-immune disorders, such as rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, etc.

I hope this helps. I've had several knee operations since in my teens and continue to follow recommendations of my ortho to cycle to keep the knee strong and to stabilize the joint.

Sundial, little or no swelling. achy, dull pain. not sharp, but increases with intensity. no redness.
stiff/sore while sitting or cycling up hills specifically, feel wonderful while walking.

no other joints swelling. You are giving me good news. I don't want to have to take anti inflammatories.

thanks for taking the time!

Are you stiff while sitting OFF the bike or are you saying you're stiff while ON the bike, before doing hills?

my job requires me to sit here on a computer all day.and yes, my knees bother me just sitting. It's better if i can straighten them, and my foot stool here helps a little too.
so the answer is BOTH sitting on butt at work and sitting on bike climbing.

What about walking down stairs/hills?

Pain while sitting is a classic sign of patellofemoral issues - pain while descending on foot would reinforce that -

Pain while sitting could just be the generalized pain of osteoarthritis, as well.
Karen

walking down stairs i am fine.
if i try to take 2 steps up the stairs at a time it bothers my knees.

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

walking down stairs i am fine.
if i try to take 2 steps up the stairs at a time it bothers my knees.

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How about when you skip?

Or hop on one leg?

Or play twister? :)

You've been hanging around me way too much :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zen

You've been hanging around me way too much :p

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You give people knee aches?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

Pain while sitting could just be the generalized pain of osteoarthritis, as well.
Karen

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Exactly! Mimi, I vote that you have good ol' osteoarthritis. Minor inconvenience but relatively easy to manage. :)

yes, now i just need to get all new bones.
and skipping is great fun btw.

I've achy-breaky-knees Not-Otherwise-Specified and sometimes it helps to ice after a longer ride.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Catriona

You give people knee aches?

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No, just headaches.
are you gonna be my straight man now?

just for clarity that's 'straight man' in a comedy sense, not a sexual orientation sense

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zen

No, just headaches.
are you gonna be my straight man now?

just for clarity that's 'straight man' in a comedy sense, not a sexual orientation sense

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Good thing you clarified, I was worried about how I was gonna grow a penis and the ensuing lifetime of insecurity about its size.

If it's an achy kind of pain, wouldn't a heating rub be more comfortable than an ice pack? I used to get knee pain after standing for long hours, especially when my weight goes past 150lbs. I had to elevate my legs and apply a warm rub otherwise i could not even sleep. 'Deep heat' is quite useless. I use a muscle rub called Metsal. It really helps relieve some of the soreness.

Have to say after reading these knee problems for all you puppydogs, am grateful mine are fine.

I have other minor "problems"..Reynauld's in hands, fallen arches=customized orthotics (last 15 yrs.).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deeaimond

If it's an achy kind of pain, wouldn't a heating rub be more comfortable than an ice pack?

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I put on a neoprene knee brace in the winter since it warms up the knee joint. However, if there's swelling, I put a cold pack on it.

Mimi, I wonder too if you need to make a micro-adjustment to your cleats since your body changes from year to year.

Today I did another search through the house for the Brooks tension spanner.
And I found it!
I screwed that thing round and round until the top of the saddle looked more flat and less saggy.
Tomorrow I'll go on a ride and let you all know how it goes.
getting old is not for sissies.