Breastfeeding Problems

I had a lot of difficulties nursing the first time around with DD, I could not get her to latch on. We hired a lactation consultant that came to our house every day for the first two weeks and had no success. DD was hungry all the time, we were exhausted and stressed--we decided to just switch to formula. We were all much happier after that.

Bear, however, latched on right away. I thought things were going great until our first follow-up appt where we learned he had lost an entire pound. So I tried nursing every 2 hours, even at night. He still didn't gain weight.

I finally had to supplement with formula. I'm using the Supplemental Nursing System from Medela. Bear finally gained some of his weight back. The doctor said I could cut back to supplementing just 3 feedings a day. He takes 1-2 ounces of formula this way.

When I don't supplement, he's hungry. Very hungry. So I'm finding that I am still having to supplement with every feeding. I'm pumping after I nurse him to try and build my milk supply--but it doesn't seem to be working.

I feel like I spend all day with my shirt off between nursing and pumping and supplementing with SNS.

What else can I do to increase my supply? I'm eating a good diet of 2,000 to 2,500 calories a day. I can't imagine I'm not eating enough.

Any suggestions?

Drink lots of fluids. Try to stay relaxed. I nursed both my daughters and they did fine but the truth is I felt like I had a kid latched on 24/7 until they started on solid food. Good Luck.

I've always read that breastfed babies gain weight more slowly than formula fed babies, but by the time they are a year old, there is no significant weight difference. I think most babies lose weight at first after birth, don't they?

Maybe the weight gain charts are based on bottle fed infants? Heck, I'd also want to know whether formula companies produce those baby weight gain charts, in some sneaky plot to discourage breastfeeding. :cool:
My two daughters were both totally breast fed for their first eight months, and one was a slender baby and the other was chubbier...go figure! They both turned into perfect, healthy, and delightful children.

I think that the more you supplement a breastfed baby with formula, the less interest they have in breastfeeding. Formula is easy for the baby to extract from the bottle- it tends to gush out at the slightest suck- breast milk is a bit harder work for them. :rolleyes: I also suspect formula is more filling.

There's help out there. I'd suggest contacting Le Leche League.

Here's a link to a chart specifically for breastfed babies.
http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns...ight-gain.html

The site also says:

A few things to keep in mind when evaluating weight gain

A 5-7% weight loss during the first 3-4 days after birth is normal. A 10% weight loss is sometimes considered normal, but this amount of weight loss is a sign that the breastfeeding needs to be evaluated. It's a good idea to have a routine weight check at 5 days (baby should be gaining rather than losing weight by day 5), so that any developing problems can be caught and remedied early.

Baby should regain birth weight by 10 days to 2 weeks. If your baby lost a good bit of weight in the early days, or if your baby is sick or premature, it may take longer to regain birth weight. If baby does not regain birth weight by two weeks, this is a sign that the breastfeeding needs to be evaluated.

Always figure weight gain from the lowest point rather than from baby's birth weight.

Baby needs to be weighed on the same scale with the same amount of clothing (preferably naked) each time to get an accurate picture of weight gain. Different scales can give very different readings (I've personally seen a difference of a pound in two different scales); clothing or diapers can vary in weight and throw the numbers off. The scale should be zeroed before weighing, and baby should be centered on the scale tray. It's never a bad idea to do a second measurement (it should be close to the first) and then use an average of the two measurements. If your baby is very active or distressed, don't expect to get an accurate measurement. Babies grow in spurts rather than at a steady rate - to keep from needless worrying, it's generally best to weigh baby no more often than once a week.
~~

I think that is very good advice. At any rate, I wouldn't worry too much just yet. If the baby seems happy and is wetting and soiling like he should, I'd give it another week or two, and a lot more interaction with experienced nursing mothers before I gave up on it.

Karen

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Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl

I've always read that breastfed babies gain weight more slowly than formula fed babies, but by the time they are a year old, there is no significant weight difference. I think most babies lose weight at first after birth, don't they?
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Formula is easy for the baby to extract from the bottle- it tends to gush out at the slightest suck- breast milk is a bit harder work for them.

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It is true about the slower weight gain for breast fed babies, initially-- they do catch up. Also, the initial weight loss is normal particularly with a breast fed baby.
There is a different sucking motion development between bottle and breast. It is quicker and easier for your son to get formula. It takes more effort to get breast milk. Breast milk is digested quicker, so breast fed babies are usually hungry again sooner. For a period of time I was feeding my son every 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hours. I was an absolute zombie. The initial weight loss can be also be tied into the fact that because breastfed babies exert more energy to get the milk, they burn off the calories quicker.
It was explained to me with my son, when I didn't think I could continue on anymore, that I was depriving him, if I wanted to try to make breast feeding his sole nutrition that I would have to not offer supplemental feedings. You may have to offer yourself more than every two hours. It'll be very very hard, I know. He will be hungry and you will feel terrible. They called it "nipple confusion" and that he would become better at his sucking if only my breasts were offered. If your body responds, you will produce more. Just the act of watching him suckle on you will produce a greater level of oxytocin which should allow you to produce at a greater degree. That is where the supply = demand falls into place. It has been a while, but I still remember how "udderly"exhausting it was (a little humor)! Best of luck with your beautiful child.

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Originally Posted by limewave

When I don't supplement, he's hungry. Very hungry. So I'm finding that I am still having to supplement with every feeding. I'm pumping after I nurse him to try and build my milk supply--but it doesn't seem to be working.

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If he's really hungry he will nurse harder and more frequently, and that will pretty quickly stimulate your milk supply. if you are giving him formula with every feeding he's not going to nurse very hard and your milk supply will start to dwindle. It's sort of like: however much formula you feed him, that's how much less milk your breast are going to make. Your breasts will start to adapt within just a few hours if they sense more need for milk and a stronger sucking, hungrier baby.
Babies who get formula after breastfeeding learn that if they give up on the breast after a minute and start crying, they quickly get the bottle and they'll get more food faster without having to work for it much.

I am not one to use herbal supplements at all but I was desperate and tried fenugreek and was amazed at how it increased my milk supply. I read quite a bit about it first and it seemed safe. Check it out if you are interested.

It does take a few days of frequent nursing to build up your milk supply but it should catch up with the baby's demands fairly quickly.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by limewave

I had a lot of difficulties nursing the first time around with DD, I could not get her to latch on. We hired a lactation consultant that came to our house every day for the first two weeks and had no success. DD was hungry all the time, we were exhausted and stressed--we decided to just switch to formula. We were all much happier after that.

Bear, however, latched on right away. I thought things were going great until our first follow-up appt where we learned he had lost an entire pound. So I tried nursing every 2 hours, even at night. He still didn't gain weight.

I finally had to supplement with formula. I'm using the Supplemental Nursing System from Medela. Bear finally gained some of his weight back. The doctor said I could cut back to supplementing just 3 feedings a day. He takes 1-2 ounces of formula this way.

When I don't supplement, he's hungry. Very hungry. So I'm finding that I am still having to supplement with every feeding. I'm pumping after I nurse him to try and build my milk supply--but it doesn't seem to be working.

I feel like I spend all day with my shirt off between nursing and pumping and supplementing with SNS.

What else can I do to increase my supply? I'm eating a good diet of 2,000 to 2,500 calories a day. I can't imagine I'm not eating enough.

Any suggestions?

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I agree with all the information given above, but after trying everything available (La Leche, lactation consultant, etc), I was never able to nurse exclusively. I had a very laid back doctor with my first child and he kept telling me not to worry about the lack of weight gain. At one month, we went to a different doctor for a second opinion. To make a long story short my son was almost labeled failure to thrive which can lead to social services involvement. We started supplementing immediately and he quickly gained weight and then stabilized his weight. I was slightly more successful with my following two, but both required supplements. I definitely would continue to nurse as long as possible even if you have to supplement since you are providing important nutrients and immunity to your child. It was very difficult not to view this as a failure, but even my friends at the La Leche mothers group agreed it was the only responsible decision. It is a good thing I was not a pioneering woman - three c-sections, gestational diabetes and unsuccessful breastfeeding would have been very difficult to overcome without modern medicine. Good luck!

I nursed exclusively for about a year and a half, then supplemented with food for another 2 years, but she never ate much real food til I cut her off completely. I felt like a milk cow. Anyway, since I worked full time, I pumped, and I found that pumping really increased my supply. I would pump during off times when she wasn't hungry. Pretty soon I'd built up a huge reserve supply. I know it's weird but it was almost like exercising - I conditioned my body to produce more than we ended up needing.

Good luck!

I used fenugreek, too, in the form of a tea called Mother's Milk that you can get at healthfood stores. I bought mine at a place called Henry's. I nursed my daughter for two years and loved every minute. I never felt more goddess-like than when I was nursing her. (Probably the oxytocin that nursing produces to help you forget about the sharp little teeth gnowing into your tender nipples, but still.)

Good luck to you on this one.

Roxy

I breastfed 4 months with my first and almost a year with my second.

I found my girls would start to fall asleep during feeding then would be hungry very soon. I found Changing diaper or ticking toes helped keep them awake, thus fuller tummies ect.....

If mine could just stay latched they would have.....thus came the binky to sooth so they ate when they were really hungry and not just for comfort.

Maybe you could use the last meal before bed to supplement so you both can get more sleep. This helps both of you.... your more rested....so is baby and baby may nurse longer and harder. This will help you make more milk ect....


Congrats on your new baby!

Tina

what wonderful advice you guys are giving!
I don't need to say a word except Doctors always seem to give advice that makes it harder to breastfeed. Listen to the TE gals. They know what for.

Limewave-

Are you rested? Are you running around trying to keep young ones entertained, meals on the table and a clean house? Stressed? (other than the breast feeding thing).

It really is an art- it took me a month to get our son latched properly as he was given a bottle after he was born (despite my strict instructions not to!) One side he would latch on fine, the other side- he sucked my nipple like it like a bottle nipple - it was so painful.

I agree, frequent (though when he goes through growth spurts he will naturally want to feed more- if I remember correctly 2-3 weeks is the first one, 5-6 weeks is the 2nd and 3 months is another.) Pumping, lots of fluids and calories and rest.

Sorry for the pun but "He's as hungry as a Bear!" :D

The importance of fluids cannot be overstated. Have a water bottle with you constantly. Every time you sit down to nurse, drink a glass of water. I do hope you've contacted your local LLL, and best wishes. :)

Thanks for the advice and support, everyone! It seems like everyone I know had an easy time breastfeeding. They can't relate to any of the problems I've been having.

I've been pumping after every feeding and drinking a ton of water. Yesterday I was able to go without supplementing until the night time feeding. It was a big break-through for us. He was finally satisfied :D

I really needed the encouragement here. DH was trying to be supportive but in all the wrong ways. I think it upset him to see me upset and so he kept telling me it was fine to quit and to just use formula . . . which, I know it would be fine. DD was formula fed and she's a beautiful, healthy little girl. But I really wanted to make breastfeeding work this time.

Apparently babies need to suck MORE than they need to eat.
That became apparent to me when my sons thrived while seemingly spitting up half of what they consumed.

Congrats on having a good night. I remember how frantic I was back then
and now when I look back the nursing days seem rather idyllic clouded by the mists of time.

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Originally Posted by Biciclista

Apparently babies need to suck MORE than they need to eat.
That became apparent to me when my sons thrived while seemingly spitting up half of what they consumed.
Congrats on having a good night. I remember how frantic I was back then
and now when I look back the nursing days seem rather idyllic clouded by the mists of time.

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+1! Totally agree.

Limewave, sounds like yesterday was actually a victory day for you- if you can do a couple more days of that, your milk production will be way more within the next 48 hours- sounds like you are now tipping the scales more towards breast milk at this critical point. Keep it up, you are getting it down now! :) All it takes is 2 or 3 successful days to get it well established.

Breast milk is SO good for your little boy- good for you for sticking with it!

That is wonderful news - sending positive thoughts your way that today goes even more smoothly.

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Originally Posted by limewave

Thanks for the advice and support, everyone! It seems like everyone I know had an easy time breastfeeding. They can't relate to any of the problems I've been having.

...

I really needed the encouragement here. DH was trying to be supportive but in all the wrong ways. I think it upset him to see me upset and so he kept telling me it was fine to quit and to just use formula . . . which, I know it would be fine. DD was formula fed and she's a beautiful, healthy little girl. But I really wanted to make breastfeeding work this time.

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I can totally relate to this! You can feel so alone & overwhelmed, despite well-meant advice from those close to you. With my son we only lasted 2 weeks before we switched completely to formula. During that time, my mom, seeing how much I was hurting, kept telling me formula was just fine. With my daughter, I was able to make it work (although I do not remember what, if anything, I did differently) and I nursed her for a year. Both my kids grew up very healthy, but I was so happy to be able to nurse my daughter.

Hats off to you for persisting, it sounds like you're turning a corner!

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Originally Posted by nolemom

That is wonderful news - sending positive thoughts your way that today goes even more smoothly.

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+1!

Karen

Hang in there Limewave - I'm nursing my 10 m.o. daughter exclusively - it is so overwhelming in those early months!

Kellymom pretty much saved my sanity. DD nursed pretty much around the clock. No 2 hours or 3 hours between feedings for her - it was more like 45 minutes, tops. And when we let them nurse, it's so cool how our bodies respond by kicking up production.

Keep it up - you're doing the right thing. It's so much more work on the front end - sooner or later it becomes so easy. (At least that's our story here!)

And mallotpois, I'm relieved to hear your child could take or leave solids until into her second year - DD just isn't really interested and we've tried spoon feeding and finger foods. She's a nice 21 lbs right now, so she's definitely thriving though.

Hang in there limewave!

Let'im suck all he wants,needs, (or all you can stand).

I nursed my baby on demand, and for a while I used to tell nosy disapproving people that she was feeding on a schedule...of course it was an hourly schedule, where every feeding lasted an hour, but that's a schedule, isn't it?

She grew up fine, by the way.

Baby your baby.
My great gramma was fond of saying, "Children are the guests of the human race and should be treated as such."

You too, northstar!

Nurse on!

I'll ditto the la leche league. Breastfeeding help is what they do. It's all they do.

http://www.llli.org/

Wow, great site. I haven't nursed a kid in 18 years, but the site looks like a wealth of information.

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My great gramma was fond of saying, "Children are the guests of the human race and should be treated as such."

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Awww, that's so lovely!!!

Karen

First thing: stop feeling guilty. Then throw away the Dr. Sears book. STAT.

The scientific evidence for the benefits of breastfeeding is tenuous, at best. The garbage just gets repeated over and over and over again.

Decide what you're willing to do breastfeeding wise, then move on. No apologies. You've got plenty of other stuff to worry about that really will have an affect on your kid(s).

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/20090...-breastfeeding

http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...mped-the-pump/

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Originally Posted by northstar

Keep it up - you're doing the right thing.

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Please stop perpetuating this garbage. There is nothing right or wrong about breast vs. bottle. There is only what works.

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http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/20090...-breastfeeding

http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2009...mped-the-pump/

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Good lord, what horrible whiny rants! It takes fifty paragraphs to get to the science? (which still says there are substances in breast mile that you can't get from formula) There are lots of different ways to breast feed that don't all involve mommies' clubs and ladies who may judge you based on whether you do attachment parenting or not.

I haven't wanted to chime in, but ilima said what I feel.
Do what is best for you. I didn't want to breast feed and the thought of nursing 24 hours a day would not have been even been in my thoughts. My kids both had solid food at 3 months and guess what? They are healthy, normal adults.
No flames, please. I knew myself and I was not willing to give up everything to nurse, most especially sleep. My DH did the middle of the night feedings, so i could get up at 5.
I know I am in the minority, but it worked for all of us, especially since my husband was a stay at home dad for the oldest one.

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Originally Posted by ilima

Please stop perpetuating this garbage. There is nothing right or wrong about breast vs. bottle. There is only what works.

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+100!! My former SIL insisted on breast feeding, even though it wasn't working--for months. It wasn't until the baby was rushed to the emergency room with liver failure that she understood that getting nourishment was the most important thing, and that baby was starving. Once on formula, the baby thrived.

Breast feeding is great if it works, and I agree that it should be the first choice, but formula shouldn't be knocked. Sometimes it's the only thing that works, and there is no shame in that. And sometimes there is no choice. My brother was adopted, and so formula was the only way to go.

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Originally Posted by tulip

+100!! My former SIL insisted on breast feeding, even though it wasn't working--for months. It wasn't until the baby was rushed to the emergency room with liver failure that she understood that getting nourishment was the most important thing, and that baby was starving. Once on formula, the baby thrived.

Breast feeding is great if it works, and I agree that it should be the first choice, but formula shouldn't be knocked. Sometimes it's the only thing that works, and there is no shame in that. And sometimes there is no choice. My brother was adopted, and so formula was the only way to go.

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I was allergic to my mom's breastmilk. I never got as sick as liver failure -just kept losing weight long after I should have started gaining - but it did take some time to figure out.

This breast-only and you're-a-horrible-unfit-mother-if-you-don't mentality seem to be symptomatic of highly educated women. I've seen it and attachment parenting take hold of some of my friends and find it terrifying.

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Originally Posted by ilima

This breast-only and you're-a-horrible-unfit-mother-if-you-don't mentality seem to be symptomatic of highly educated women. I've seen it and attachment parenting take hold of some of my friends and find it terrifying.

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You get my agreement there, for sure ( don't get me going on attachment parenting....) However, I do think there is a real range between just giving up, giving it a reasonable try, and the at all costs approach.

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The scientific evidence for the benefits of breastfeeding is tenuous, at best.

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Yeah, only thousands of years of human development.
:confused::confused::confused:
Karen

no, millions of years! lol

And I have a mother who half-jokingly wonders if her lst 3 kids haven't still need glasses for reading/distance in their late 40's because she breast-fed us the longest compared to her latter 3 kids. She breast-fed lst 3, each probably no more than 2-3 months. Mother guilt/humour can be abit strange.

At child 6, she would have nearly shrieked in frustration, if anyone suggested she try breastfeeding any more than 1-2 months. She was too exhausted on many different fronts.

So parents happily dealt with cans and cans of baby soy milk. (Baby sister was lactose-intolerant.)

She made up..for this ....for many many years by preparing healthy meals for us. That is another real parental "test" of dedication beyond breastfeeding, isn't it?

There are many parental tests of dedication including cubscouts. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

Yeah, only thousands of years of human development.
:confused::confused::confused:
Karen

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Uh, yeah, and I wonder how many children born failed to reach their first birthday, on average, over the course of human existence. I'm wager quite a lot.

Evolution is very, very messy. The fact that humans exist is not indicative that maternal milk is significantly better for early childhood development than formula.

That's like saying we evolved ears to hold our glasses a la Dr. Pangloss.

I know that not all breast feeding moms are "Nazis" about it, but it does seem to be the prevalent attitude. I know quite a bit about attachment theory in the psychological literature, and the "attachment parenting" thing is somewhat of a perverted version of what attachment theory really is. I doubt Bowlby and Ainsworth meant that parents had to sleep with their kids until they were 3 or 4 years old. My cousin's wife did this and it just caused a huge wedge in the family.
I know that breast milk is nutritionally superior; it still didn't make me want to nurse. Soy formula worked well and they both switched to regular milk at one year, when they started using a cup.
Oh yes, and my kids were on "schedules," too.
It's all a choice and it's good that everyone can give Limewave advice. But, even after almost 27 years, I can still feel the superiority vibes that were thrown my way.

Well 30 years ago I got to feel all the negative vibes thrown MY way simply because I wanted to breastfeed and countless people tried to make me feel guilty and selfish about it. It was AWFUL- many people tried to make me feel like a BAD MOTHER because I wouldn't feed formula bottles.

Sheesh, people. There are clueless thoughtless types everywhere, on both sides of the issue. Let's not throw around gross generalizations about entire groups of people.

Remember Eleanor Roosevelt's advice:
"No one can make you feel inferior without your permission."

I agree, Lisa. Especially, since this debate has absolutely no relevance in my life now :). But, I did want to give my opinion and I waited until someone else voiced the "opposite" view, since I was too chicken to say how I felt.