Car Show on Bike Path

On Sunday, my husband and I went for a ride on our bike paths to check out some newly completed sections. It was a beautiful day - around 80 degrees, very little breeze, partly cloudy - couldn't have asked for better. There were lots of other cyclists, runners, walkers, etc. out as well.

The path we were on follows the river and is well separated from any roads, and we were cruising along coming up on a section that goes under a fancy building that sits on both sides of the river/path and has a walkway that goes over. DH was in front of me an all of a sudden a car came down the sidewalk on the other side of the split building and was about to turn onto the bike path! Needless to say, we didn't expect it at all. DH and I both hollered as we saw it. The driver had his windows rolled down and heard us and stopped (he wasn't going very fast), but DH had to swerve and could've touched the hood of the car. He told the driver this is a bike path and motor vehicles aren't allowed. The driver gave us a blank look -- DH and I rode a little further and notice that a car show was being set up in the parking lot for this building.

When we were heading back home, we decided to stop and talk to someone in charge at the car show about the close call. By then, there were cars parked all along the bike path. We asked a guy if he knew who was in charge and were directed to the emcee, who had a microphone hooked to a big speaker system. The emcee saw us coming down the sidewalk and announced, "you on the bikes - would you mind walking your bikes so you don't scratch up one of these cars?" (When there were cars all over the bike path??) We told the guy about nearly getting hit - he just shrugged like, yeah, so - ? We explained that motorized vehicles aren't allowed on the bike path and he said, (in a very smug tone) "well, I guess someone got a permit that says they can."

We were absolutely livid by then. We went home planning on calling the City on Tuesday (we didn't call 911 - there was a Highway Patrol vehicle there as part of the show - doubt the police would have helped), but we decided to go back and take some pictures figuring the City wouldn't take us seriously. While we were there, we talked to the charity table (the car show was put on for a good local charity). They were very apologetic, wanted to know exactly what happened, said they'd check into it, took our name and number to get back with us.

So far, we haven't heard anything. We're giving them until Friday, but in the meantime we've been trying to check into statutes, etc., and who we're supposed to report this to. We understand that sometimes streets are closed for events, etc., but there were no signs or anything indicating that there would be cars on the bike path. We've been running into a lot of dead ends. Are bike paths some kind of "no man's land" that aren't protected? This isn't a path that is alongside of the street that cars might drift into - this is completely separate. Where do we go with this to ask for some safety measures?

I'll attach a picture of the bike path.

Deb

Wow! If anything, the show should have been required to put up warning signs on the path requesting cyclists to please dismount and walk the short distance. I've seen that on a RTT path I've riden on where occasionally a group books the large play area (until it was rebuilt and no-longer overlaps the path) for parties - we're talking really big parties, not just a child's birthday bash. They don't actually block the path - but warning signs are posted on each end of the path by the play area. If you don't dismount, you have to ride really really slow.

In your case, I'd write letters to the city mayor, the council person who's district is affected, YOUR city council rep, the sponsoring charity, and the car club. If they had to have the car show at that particular location, then in their ads promoting the car show they should have also called attention that the bike path would be pedistrian only for a short distance, sorry to inconvience the cylists. It would have been better to have their show somewhere else, like a large parking lot, or on the ball fields. And if they must have it on the bike path then, for safety's sake, then the organizers should be required to post signs on both ends of the affected zone AND have staff out there in the sun politely asking cyclists to dismount. Finally, it's a bike and pedistrian path, not a car path, car paths are roads - close off a road somewhere and have your car show there.

is there a bicycle lobbyist group in Kansas? contact them too. At the very least there should have been warnings posted.

It would be nice if more than one voice were heard. Otherwise the idea that a very tiny group of loudmouths made them put a bike path in and then complained when it was used for something far more beneficial to "normal" people... were any other bikes on the path?

she might not know anyone else who rode there that day. She still needs to report it. It isn't a matter of One person complaining, it's a matter of unsafe practices that need to be rectified.
Imagine setting up a bike show across the main drag?

I think it would be best to concentrate on the lack of warning signs for the cyclists that listed dates and times of the event. Public ways do get closed for special events (parades, block parties, Maxwell St Days, etc) but not only are permits required (which Mr. Snotty implied they had) but signage is also. That is the real breakdown you incountered.

I grew up in Chicago, and Maxwell Street was the place to go for the flea market. My grandfather used to take me there all the time. I just remembered...he bought BICYCLES! :)

I didn't see the reference in any of the posts so I don't know if this is what it was referring to.

eta: Oh, there it is. and then Oak's post asking about Maxwell Street was GONE!

Karen

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Originally Posted by newfsmith

I think it would be best to concentrate on the lack of warning signs for the cyclists that listed dates and times of the event. Public ways do get closed for special events (parades, block parties, Maxwell St Days, etc) but not only are permits required (which Mr. Snotty implied they had) but signage is also. That is the real breakdown you incountered.

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The "real breakdown" is not closing the path, signs or no signs, it's allowing cars where they aren't normally allowed. Every one of those drivers is now going to think of that bike path - and all bike paths - as a short cut they can take whenever they don't notice any bikes. Enough motor vehicles wind up on the bike paths already - just last week two people on an ATV and the cyclist they hit on the bike path were all life-flighted.

That's the problem, IMO. This isn't like closing Main Street for a parade - it's like having a horse show on the interstate.


ETA: ha, well now I know what Maxwell Street days are anyhow. :p

Oops, I didn't mean one voice was worthless (especially worth less than none) - just that it would be lots better if a connection with Kansas cyclists could be made. No local email list?

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

The "real breakdown" is not closing the path, signs or no signs, it's allowing cars where they aren't normally allowed. Every one of those drivers is now going to think of that bike path - and all bike paths - as a short cut they can take whenever they don't notice any bikes. Enough motor vehicles wind up on the bike paths already - just last week two people on an ATV and the cyclist they hit on the bike path were all life-flighted.

That's the problem, IMO. This isn't like closing Main Street for a parade - it's like having a horse show on the interstate.

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I don't agree. I think it's fine to allow cars where they aren't normally allowed (or horses on interstates for that matter) as long as there's plenty of warning to the people who normally use that path about the change. Closing the path for the show would be fine, or just providing warning several days in advance and signage the day of the event to tell cyclists to walk through the area. It's not as if these were just any old drivers allowed to drive on the bike path and park there--these were people who brought in their cars for a charity car show. I don't think people who park in the parking lot at shopping malls think that they can park inside the mall just because there's a display of cars there sometimes.

Interstates are often shut down to allow the the roads to be used for other events. In our area, the main expressway going downtown is shut down once a year to allow bikers, joggers and rollerbladers to use it for the morning. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge is also shut down once a year for walkers to go across it. No one thinks that it's o.k. to walk or bike on these roads the rest of the year. I don't think show car owners are any more clueless than bikers and walkers. Not usually, that is.

The failure here was in not properly warning path users about the change. What they did was inconsiderate and potentially dangerous, and clearly someone screwed up (assuming they had a permit--without a permit it's another matter entirely) in not notifying the public about this event.

Sarah

Our local park frequently puts up signs at least a week in advance of 5K's or boating events that will affect the bike path. I would check with the State or Local Parks department and see if they have jurisdiction.

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Originally Posted by newfsmith

I think it would be best to concentrate on the lack of warning signs for the cyclists that listed dates and times of the event. Public ways do get closed for special events (parades, block parties, Maxwell St Days, etc) but not only are permits required (which Mr. Snotty implied they had) but signage is also. That is the real breakdown you incountered.

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And overtime for police officers to direct traffic.

I'm struggling here:
- I understand the frustration, but

- they clearly had a legal permit for gathering...

- our consensus is to express the same indignation that uninformed drivers have regarding our presence on the road

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Originally Posted by Mr. Silver

our consensus is to express the same indignation that uninformed drivers have regarding our presence on the road

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The consensus seems to be that cyclists should be notified of special events that affect the bike path. Having police in place is ideal; if that's too costly, signage is necessary.

That's not even remotely similar to drivers objecting to cyclists being on a road where they are legally allowed.

Pam

We don't know for sure that they had a permit at all. Whether or not they should have been allowed to park on the bike path, permit or no permit, is the big issue. Additionally, if they were allowed to park cars on the bike path, should they have been required to post signs, etc., notifying any oncoming cyclists, runners, etc.?

When we went back to take the pictures, we thought it was interesting that there were quite a few cyclists checking out the car show. They weren't being chased off or scolded by a snotty emcee, but DH and I agreed that there could have been some mutual benefit to some better planning. Cyclists and runners could have been safer with some advance warning of the cars being on the path, and the charity benefited from the bike path traffic, and some kind requests to the cyclists to dismount bikes when in the car show area would have made the car owners happy as well.

It just doesn't seem like it should be so difficult to figure out where to go to ask for some resolution to this. Between State Laws, City Parks and Recreation rules and plans, permits and who has them and what they cover, etc. - why does "cars, being motorized vehicles, don't belong on bike paths, which are supposed to be safe havens for bikes and pedestrians" - get lost?

Have you talked to the charity again? Do they perhaps work with a fund raiser? People who do fund raising are experts on the details of special events, and would surely know who issues permits.

Another idea is to contact your local elected representative. He or she (or a staff person) should know who controls what in your city.

If that doesn't work, a reporter on your local paper could be helpful in determining who to contact.

Pam

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Originally Posted by Deborajen

We don't know for sure that they had a permit at all. Whether or not they should have been allowed to park on the bike path, permit or no permit, is the big issue. Additionally, if they were allowed to park cars on the bike path, should they have been required to post signs, etc., notifying any oncoming cyclists, runners, etc.?

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I understand.

Ironically, you were more polite than me. I wouldn't have "walked" my bike unless they could demonstrate that their permit mandated that requirement:rolleyes:

Well, what we've been able to find out so far isn't very encouraging.

1. The City says they have no authority over the bike path in this situation. They're saying that the science museum (the building in the picture) is county property and that includes the bike path on its land.

2. The county says that since the museum is within the city limits, they can't do anything.

3. The science museum says they're sorry, they'll try to do better next time.

4. The charity says they're sorry, too (for the "inconvenience"), and they'll talk to the museum, etc., etc.

The local running club helped me get in touch with the City Park Dept contact, who responded (cc'd the running club) by saying this is a very serious issue - it does need to be addressed. I agree totally - but I haven't heard from the running club since.

The local cycling club has a city/county liaison (a former county commissioner) who offered a few suggestions on who to contact (mayor, city council, county commissioner, etc., which I was already working on). Then he e-mailed me back saying something like "I assume you're looking for assurance that this won't happen again because, at least so far, nobody in the world is able to undo events from the past" - ??

This is so frustrating! What good is a bike path if certain parts are an unexpected "free-for-all?" An event involving cars should not be able to be held on the bike path unless permits or signs or other safety measures to protect cyclists are LEGALLY required, and those laws should be enforced. I'm hoping the running club hasn't just dropped this, and I especially hope the cycling club takes this more seriously than that liaison fella. I just don't get this.

Maybe I'll write to the State, too.

OK - Vent over.

Even though you may not hear about it, hopefully you have gotten someone's attention.

We ride a paved path around a lake here in St. Louis. They have frequent boat races, triathlons, senior olympics that may involve closing part of the path (inconvenient--it's a loop). They always put up signs along the path every intersection, the week before events. It's very considerate and allows us to make alternate plans. I wouldn't be surprised if this didn't develop from a problem way back.

Maybe a follow up letter to all concerned with suggestions for ways to avoid this in the future, such as signs a week before events that would affect the bike path?

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Originally Posted by Deborajen

Then he e-mailed me back saying something like "I assume you're looking for assurance that this won't happen again because, at least so far, nobody in the world is able to undo events from the past" - ??
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head/desk

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Originally Posted by Zen

head/desk

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Well, as a person who puts on events on public property, and who listens to a lot of complaints and "constructive criticism" :D I think the above response indicates that perhaps she wasn't clear with her solution to the problem.

What is done, is done. Can't change that. Acknowledge that and move on. You don't know how many times people complain to get things off their chest and never offer a solution. It may seem obvious to us that the solution is to make sure the bike paths are kept clear, or if that can't be avoided, to provide adequate notice and safety measures. But if you don't state that outright to the official, you may just sound like a complainer, and you will be tuned out. Stop talking about what happened and try to focus on what *could* happen in the future if the same actions are taken by organizers again, and how that can be prevented.

Also, offer to help make it happen next time. Don't just say, "if you need my help, let me know." Say, "I can watch the community calendar and make sure I call the museum/organization ahead of time and suggest they take the proper steps that this doesn't happen."

Eventually, if you follow up with this level of detail, marking the trail will become standard protocol, and will be included in any contracts, I'll bet. But if we just never thought of it, we just never have. Nothing to be done about it now.

Karen

When I e-mailed the guy, yes, there was some complaining involved but I thought since he's a cyclist we'd be on the same side and he'd commiserate - and suggest who I could talk to. I thought it was pretty clear that I was, at this point, looking for the appropriate contact (actually, that was expressed in the first sentence of my e-mail) and wasn't just griping and wanting him to fix it.

However, I also told him who I'd contacted so far and he responded that I should also contact __________ - the exact people I'd just mentioned. I appreciate what you're saying about offering a clear solution, but I don't think this guy can read - among other problems.

I think you did a good thing...change occurs one step at a time (and never as fast as we hope...)

Thanks. I hope so.

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Originally Posted by Deborajen

When I e-mailed the guy, yes, there was some complaining involved but I thought since he's a cyclist we'd be on the same side and he'd commiserate - and suggest who I could talk to. I thought it was pretty clear that I was, at this point, looking for the appropriate contact (actually, that was expressed in the first sentence of my e-mail) and wasn't just griping and wanting him to fix it.

However, I also told him who I'd contacted so far and he responded that I should also contact __________ - the exact people I'd just mentioned. I appreciate what you're saying about offering a clear solution, but I don't think this guy can read - among other problems.

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Yeah, you're probably right! lol.

Karen