Group Ride Etiquette Dilemma

Ok ladies - so I went out w/ this group of older (40s) women on their regular Monday ride. I have ridden w/ 1 of them a lot (a very strong girl!), and the other 2 (apparently more casual riders) only once or twice before. Well. We went on a route with quite a few little hills which I proceed to spin up. I just can only go so slow with the 53/39. At the tops I would slow up and wait for everyone else and explain that I just had to spin or I would have to walk!

Now, at about mile 20 we turn home and end up going straight into a 15+mph direct headwind. Oh, and its uphill, for like 7 or 8 minutes. Gradual, but deadly with the wind. Oh, and there were semi and gravel trucks passing us and pushing us around on our nice wide shoulder.

3 of us are going along, but we lose one of the more casual ladies. Then my friend, the strongest of all of us, goes back to help pull her up the hill. So I am left hanging onto this girl's wheel - probably 2 or 3 minutes. No signal from her to take my turn up front, but I can tell she's loosing it. So I come around her and am like "I've just gotta go, grab on!" and put my head down and just curse the gods and keep going at our original pace. I just physically couldn't slow down enough to keep her on my wheel (and plus I'm a tiny tiny person so there's not much help anyways)....we both made it up, but I had a good minute on her.

Should I be worried that I've offended these nice ladies? I wasn't attacking, just surviving! What do I do? Should I apologize over email? Ah!! Help!

Most rides regroup at the top of hills is pretty standard, so going ahead on hills and waiting at the top is not usually considered to be completely rude, unless you've agreed to not do it ahead of time. OTOH, if you work on riding slow it will improve your bike handling skills and your balance. You should be able to go very slow without falling over. (unless it is really windy...)

What does "hanging on to her wheel" mean? And what would you be apologizing for? I know nothing about group riding, so I'm curious, if you don't mind explaining.

Pam

There are really two questions:
- Did you do anything offensive? Not in my book
- Might they have been offended? It depends on whether or not they have the same "book";) But, if so, it's because they had a different expectation and not because of anything overt that you did.

There's very little drafting in our club's hill rides. Most of us could easily stay together as a flatland paceline, but we break up in the hills for the very reasons you describe. Even small differences in strength and gearing mean it's impossible to stay wheel to wheel on steep hills.

Back when I was racing, it was the same thing on club training rides. We had a flat course where we did pacelining, but on the hill courses we'd climb and descend singly or by twos, and regroup at the top of the longest hill.

Are you used to keeping a paceline going up and down the hills with other groups in your area? Does the one woman you've ridden with several times, ride with this group often? Why not check it out with her?

Many of the patch rides in Ohio attract people who really don't do any group riding outside of the events, and they're convinced that the way a paceline works is that the people from the back are supposed to guess (in no particular order) when it's their turn to pull, then power up to the front and take the point. :eek: They'll sit at the front and never peel off, and then sit at the food stops and the email lists complaining about "wheelsuckers." Maybe the woman you were on the hill with thought that's what was supposed to happen.

Or maybe the group has an informal agreement to stay single file when the traffic's that heavy. Actually just a couple of weeks ago our group did a new route that has a couple of miles on a fairly busy, 5-lane road. I would've thought it was perfectly safe to do a normal paceline with attention to the traffic behind, but the ride leader announced when we turned on to the road that there would be no leader change until we turned off it. The strongest one of us agreed to pull for the whole stretch.

In any event I don't think it's a big enough deal that you need to apologize before the next time you see these women. The next time you see the one woman you passed on the hill, you might want to just mention it to her.

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Originally Posted by Eden

You should be able to go very slow without falling over. (unless it is really windy...)

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I'm not going to disagree in general, but I don't think a steep hill on a group ride in heavy traffic is the place to learn new handling skills.

Personally, there is no way I could stay upright below about 2.5 mph, below about 40 rpm, above maybe a 12% grade. It's the strength input and the unfamiliar slope of the frame, rather than the speed per se, that makes it very difficult to stay upright under those conditions.

Look at it this way- if they do get offended, then you'll just have to find faster people to ride with!

:D

I don't think you offended, but there are all sorts of group rides: social, training, combination with lots of break aways and regrouping (this is how we typically ride), and strict pacelines, to name a few. Many times on a social ride, the idea is to stay together - hills will always stretch out a group. We almost always regroup at major turns/roads/etc... but with all the breakaways, a rider can easily ride as hard as they choose, and no drop makes it fun for all.

I wouldn't think they would be offended. Hills should be expected to spread out the group. Did you take off the moment the last woman came up to the top, or did you give her a chance to rest and catch her breath? It seems like you did nothing that I would view as offending.

<<--Still very much a casual rider. If it had been me you'd ridden past, I'd have been wondering what took you so long, recognizing that you're a much stronger rider than I. And by that I mean, I would have been feeling badly for holding you up.

I actually have friends here who have invited me to come running with them and I just pass because I'm nowhere fit enough to do it. I'd be keeping them from their actual workout if they had to hold back to accommodate my less-than-theirs fitness level. (And that's improving, but still, I don't want to keep them from working up a sweat just because I'm struggling to keep up.)

I don't think you did anything wrong at all. I'd have been grateful for the example of how to do it the most efficient way.

Unless you took off a soon as she got up the hill behind you. Then, yeah, that's kind of snarky. Ha!

Roxy

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

I'm not going to disagree in general, but I don't think a steep hill on a group ride in heavy traffic is the place to learn new handling skills.

Personally, there is no way I could stay upright below about 2.5 mph, below about 40 rpm, above maybe a 12% grade. It's the strength input and the unfamiliar slope of the frame, rather than the speed per se, that makes it very difficult to stay upright under those conditions.

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ummm yeah - and I don't think I suggested any of this... I was not saying that that particular ride was the time or place to practice this skill, nor did the OP say she was trying to go under 2.5 mph...

As far as etiquette goes - I don't think I've ever been on a ride where everyone expects to climb at the same rate... even on a no drop ride, its pretty standard to regroup at the top of hills.

I do think its good to learn how to handle your bike slowly, especially if you ride in groups. You may find yourself in a situation where you are blocked from going around slower people and you just have to deal with it. We had a new gal jump across the yellow line, when a car was coming, on a team ride and tell us it was because she couldn't climb the hill any slower...... She was lucky she didn't get hit, but still couldn't understand why we were so PO'd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eden

I do think its good to learn how to handle your bike slowly, especially if you ride in groups. You may find yourself in a situation where you are blocked from going around slower people and you just have to deal with it. We had a new gal jump across the yellow line, when a car was coming, on a team ride and tell us it was because she couldn't climb the hill any slower...... She was lucky she didn't get hit, but still couldn't understand why we were so PO'd.

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I agree. I hate having to crawl along when I'd rather just keep up my rhythm, but this kind of situation happens to me a lot in races (and sometimes on training rides, but we aren't as much of a roadblock then). The slower ladies just don't stick to the right, so either I need figure out a way to stay upright or I'm going over the yellow line. It kind of baffles me when I am one of the few running a compact, I am in my easiest gear, and I am still snaking back and forth behind the leaders trying not to slam into someone, but it happens a lot. And I don't even consider myself to be a strong climber.

As for the headwind, I don't think you did anything wrong, and it was certainly fine to move ahead to be the one pulling...but I don't think it was the nicest thing to then proceed to drop the others.

Honestly I think you are worrying too much. If someone had done that to me I wouldn't have thought twice about it. Don't stress over it. If it was 'rude' most likely one of the other riders would have mentioned it to you. Not in a mean way but just to 'nicely' let you know it wasn't very cool. Obviously not the case though. Keep up the good work! :D

Ok great opinions everyone. I DID wait at the top and then let everyone else decide when to take off. Also, the traffic wasn't really heavy, just annoying because they made a lot of extra "wind" when it was there. The shoulder was a full lane width, so basically no problems there. And the woman I normally ride with hooked me up the next day w/ another girl who she thought I would ride more similarly to.

I guess this is an issue of handling skills. Though honestly as a tiny person I can't every see myself becoming one to hammer up hills. I know there are many ways to climb - but in a situation like that I wasn't about to try to learn it all at once....

Thanks everyone for all the great advice!

It sounds like you did just fine. Sometimes if I'm behind someone who just keeps pulling and doesn't peel off, I offer to pull any time they want, just to let them know I'm not intentionally being a slug. I do wish people would just peel off - it seems so much more logical and efficient than having to sprint for the front.

I'm thinking this is a good spot to mention (and I'm not in any way suggesting that you said anything wrong) to always be careful what you say in a situation like that. I have a friend who tends to say things that make me want to punch her in the nose when she's feeling good and I'm not.:rolleyes: Things like "I didn't really want to drop you, but I just couldn't go that slow", or, "That's okay, sometimes l like to go really slow, so I can work on my technique". Things that to her seem perfectly innocent, but when I'm struggling they sound snarky and belittling. My DH notices the same thing, so it isn't just me. When I'm struggling to keep up, I really don't need to hear that I'm too slow - I already feel bad enough about the struggling. And then it just makes me that much happier (in an evil way insert devil smilie here) on the days when I can put the hurt on her.

Personally, I think climbing hills is something you have to do at your own pace, and that regrouping is the best way. However, I do most of my riding alone, and rarely with more than about 2 other people. So I'm, not a group-ride authority.

I just have to ask, is this the Dam Loop and the long climb up 360 to finish the ride?

I used to ride this route and every week we did Bee Caves and I would usually climb faster than my group. No one minded and I would just slow down at the top of a hill and wait...sometimes I would get a couple of hills ahead of the group but I would always wait.

You really do need to get up the hills on your own and it's nice when you do find someone that rides them at the same pace...especially on windy days when you can share the workload.

I don't think you did anything wrong. I am a slow-but-steady hill climber and I always expect other riders to pass me. I don't want to hold anyone up, so if someone is faster than me, I prefer if they go on ahead. And if I happen to be faster on a hill than another rider in the group, I'll usually go ahead and pass. In most recreational group ride situations, I would personally rather climb the hill at my own pace have everyone re-group at the top.

Last fall I did a really difficult metric century in the mountains where I was the only woman in a group of about 15. I was definitely the weakest rider in the group. Luckily the group stopped pretty regularly to re-group, and I'd catch up. I was really happy with this because I wasn't holding anyone else back yet I was still able to keep up and finish with the group.

Luv'nAustin - Dam Loop? Huh?

Luvn- She is not from Austin so I doubt she was on the dam loop.

Fidl- The dam loop is one of the more (barf) popular Austin road rides. It is hilly but I say barf because DH and I have both had more than enough evil motorists on it to last a lifetime. Become a real stressful ride for me because the traffic is so scary.

Aggie: The dam loop is probably doubly ruined because it was featured in January's Bicycling Mag.