Help with motivating a teenager

Help girls. I read TTaylor's thread on 8th grade math and didn't want to hijack her thread but I thought I also could use some help and who better to come to than all of you.

I have a gifted 14 year old boy, who, since beginning middle school, I have had to push and fight to get his grades up and not procrastinate and try to get to take some initiative or have some motivation, but I have failed miserably at it. He has managed to pull it out and do well, by the end of his 6th and 7th grade years, but has already failed one 9 weeks of algebra, and gotten D's in science and History or Language arts, I can't remember exactly now, in his now 8th grade year. Point is he isn't doing well or pulling things out this year and we are in the 3rd 9 weeks of school. High school starts next year and so does the beginning of things starting to really count when it comes to future education IE: hopefully college.
Just for FYI. He was a straight A student during elementary.

I've been told that this is normal, for teenage boys, also normal for gifted children, and so on and so forth, however, I do not want to blow this off and say "oh well he will out grow it". Nor do I want him using his giftedness or being a teenage boy as an excuse to be able to sch-luff off doing his assignments and school work.

I did not finish school, (long story). I went back and got my GED, however no matter what anyone says, it's just not the same. (not for me personally anyway) My one regret in life will be, not finishing school. Maybe I am projecting that onto him, maybe not, but one things for sure. His education is very important to me.
The teachers tell me to let him fail and suffer the consequences but I just can't seem to do it. I feel the consequences are to great to have to be held back a grade and not be able to go on to high school with his peers.
I need some insight and can take any constructive criticism. I am perfectly aware that I am not a perfect parent and that him being an only child is another challenge.

I thought about it today and was thinking about starting to make him do some things at home on top of his regular school work. Like make him go to the library get a book and give me a weekly book report, along with giving him some chores around the house.
Being a stay at home mom, I do everything around here and don't really require much from him other than good grades and he's not doing that, so my thinking is he needs some responsibilities.
Anyway, ask any questions and give any advice.
I can choose to agree or not, but I need input.
Thanks in advance.

Donna, I am by no means an expert, but I have tutored some struggling teens before. I know it can be expensive and seen as a taboo by the kids to 'need a tutor' but I really think if you can pair him up with a college age ish (ideally male) tutor, that might help. I honestly became a sounding board, role model, and just a non-judgemental (and non-threatening being near their age) support for my students. A lot of time it wasn't about the material we were working on. It was about me passing on my love of learning. And somewhat reassuring them that there's life beyond this thing called school, but if you want to reap that reward, you gotta get through it. I totally get how frustrating school can be to gifted kids (and non gifted kids too). Unfortunately school is super structured into a certain way of learning that doesn't work for a lot of people. So maybe different approaches than the usual school way of learning would help- museum visits, books- but more to discuss and open his eyes to learning than to 'write a report'. Throw out the 'usual' reading lists and challenge him with existentialism, the biography of Malcolm X, etc. Math is one of the harder ones to motivate, but just being lighthearted about it and supportive helps a lot. I agree with the teachers to a point- but one quarter of failing should be enough to get the point across without losing a whole year. Empower him to want to show you he is doing the best he can. And if his best is failing, support him. It's amazing how far that will get you. Please let me know if you need more specific ideas to try.

ETA- don't worry too terribly much about the procrastinating- I'm the queen of procrastinating and I was in the top 2% of my class.

The transition from elementary to junior high is a tough one. I was very active in the elementary, so I had an excellent relationship with all my kids teachers and would volunteer in the classroom, so I felt like I had a good grasp on what was going on with their education. Once she was thrust into the junior high scene, she was on her own. There just isn't as much opportunity for parent involvement. I think a big part of JH is social and also independence. They really have to take responsibility for keeping track of their work and turning it in on time. Most of her teachers have very little flexibility for late work, so if you miss it, its an automatic "F" and one missing assignment can turn an overall "A" into a "C" grade in the class. So, I found myself totally micro-managing her the first year. I would go through what was due the next day with her everyday. By 8th grade, she took this responsibility on herself. DH and I have already been preaching the benefits of good grades to her like decrease in auto insurance premiums for good students, scholarship's etc.

I think mayanorange had an excellent idea about the tutoring. Even if it was a short term tutoring to get him on track. Especially if it was from a HS or College student he could relate to. I am really nervous for my son to start JH next year. He has always struggled a bit more academically although he is very responsible, he is not so organized which is so important for them to succeed.

Anyhow, I wish you luck!!!

My sons were abysmal at the same age. My older son was failing almost all of his classes in 7th grade, and only continued to have an interest in going to school because he was in Band. He is a musician today.
It's true that your coaxing, threatening and bribing him is NOT going to make him want to do schoolwork. But if you're like me, you know you have to be proactive, because he's not mature enough to make these decisions on his own. I watched as some of my sons' classmates dropped out in senior year. And these weren't borderline Juvenile Delinquents, either, these were the super gifted kids whose parents decided that their children were mature enough to make decisions like that.
We didn't share that opinion, so when Son #1 quit going to health class in his senior year because he felt it was a waste of time (and you must pass this class to graduate) we threatened to ACCOMPANY him to the last 8 or 10 classes so that he would graduate. I guess he believed us, because he did graduate.
The humiliation of parents showing up in classes helps with some kids, but it didn't help with mine.
GOOD LUCK, until he's 18, you're the responsible one.

PS after both kids being slackers in high school, my younger son is now pulling nearly a 4.gpa in grad school studying pure math.
My older son graduated from college with honors, but did not do so well in grad school.

Mom of two GATE boys here. (GATE = Gifted and Talented Education, typically 97percentile and above) One is off the charts and we almost lost him as a student forever in the lower grades he was so bored.

The best thing we ever did was put them in our district's magnet program for gifted kids for middle school (grades 5-8, 4 classes, total 100 kids). Do you have access to ANYTHING? Most bright kids start blowing school off because they are bored, not interested in the curriculum, feeling superior to the regular kids etc. In addition, it's very normal developmentally for teen boys between the ages of 13-17 or so to really not have much motivation or follow through unless they are particularly interested in something. This is actually a brain chemistry/development fact, not just about attitude.

Chances are he's either bored to tears or has a learning disability ( which is different from giftedness) that is getting in the way of his success.

If you have access to anything to augment the school experience, go for it - even if they go kicking and screaming. if they have the option to work at their speed and create some of their own study plans, that is what I would recommend. I was lucky to have it through the public school, but in some areas you have to go to a private school to get the challenges. It's really a shame that the lower level kids in general get a lot more funding and attention that the high level kids who can "fend for themselves".

Where my kids did the best was in self study math: they were allowed to work on district math as fast as they could inhale it, and in what was called, Independent Projects where they could take ANY topic and make a full semester of study on it, covering as many aspects as possible. They entered high school at the Senior level of the district math program.

I hate to break it to you, but straight A's in most elementary schools isn't that great of an accomplishment. Any bright kid that's focused can do that, unless the curriculum is particularly challenging. Middle school has so many distractions, too - it's full of raging hormones and social drama - who has time for learning?

If your school has a counselor, you might talk to them about what kind of options are out there. One idea that other parents used was a super special extracurricular activity that would be funded/permitted if they could get their grades up. An example that comes to mind is fencing. I Knew a kid that really, really wanted to do it, and that was the carrot on the stick that worked for them.

Also inquire if there's an honors program at the high school level, and what it might take to get him into it. Good luck. If he's got the habit already of being a slacker, you might really have your work cut out for you. Somehow, you, or an inspirational teacher has got to trigger that love of learning switch.

Another resort might be home schooling - giving him the opportunity to follow some of his interests with guidance to keep it learning based. This however requires a HUGE commitment form the parents. I certainly couldn't have done it.

A side note. The teachers working with my kids and others were really big on parents NOT micromanaging their kid's work load. The thinking was, let them see what failing and forgetting things feels like, and learn from it, in middle school where it doesn't really matter instead of high school, where it does. God Bless Mrs. Mai, who literally got in my face and told me to butt out of my kids business, and let them learn how to be accountable for their own stuff.

as you say, take what you like and leave the rest. This is just my experience.

Irulan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DDH

Being a stay at home mom, I do everything around here and don't really require much from him other than good grades and he's not doing that, so my thinking is he needs some responsibilities.
Anyway, ask any questions and give any advice.
I can choose to agree or not, but I need input.
Thanks in advance.

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more unasked for commentary.
14 is plenty old enough to do lots and have lots of responsibility. The Boy Scout motto, "never do for a boy what he can do for himself" is really important. This is kind of getting off the giftedness thing - But I feel strongly that given a kid, yes even a 14 year old, responsibilities and the opportunity to both fail and succeed is critical to the development of a balanced man.

What about a program where he's got a chance to develop some leadership skills? Some scout troops are still focused on leadership by boys (not the moms and dads) and this can be a great opportunity. Or, volunteering (in something he's interested in).

And, helping around the house. Laundry, cooking housework, for starters. People thought I was an evil mother :D because I quit doing the kids laundry when each was 12. It's not rocket science.

Thanks girls. He has been in the gifted program for public schools since 2nd grade so he is already in, what they consider the higher level learning here.
He says school is boring, however the school system here doesn't really offer anymore. Also, they will not advance him or do any extra when he shows no initiative to do any more than he absolutely has to to get by.
This is where it becomes a two edged sword. I'm very involved always have been, but I have stepped back to try to make him accountable, but when he doesn't do what he needs to, then I feel I have to step in.

My parenting belief is that when kids don't do the responsible thing then we must step in and require it from them. Just as I wouldn't let him get away with not brushing his teeth because he doesn't' like it, I won't let him not do his school work because he is bored.
There are extra programs for the kids to do as you suggested, however my son has no interest, nor would they let him with his lack of motivation.

I just get so frustrated because I know his abilities and IQ level yet he doesn't live up to even a close amount of his potential.
I just have such a hard time sitting back and waiting to see if he is going to pick it up, and I can't just hope that it will get better.

I mean, I do hope it gets better, but I can't sit back and do nothing in the mean time.

We live in a military town that is city sized in population, but still country minded when it comes to resources. There just isn't a lot in the way of mentor type programs or extra learning outside school in the arts or music, or museums or things like that. I guess I could get him into FAA or 4H, but he is to techy minded to want to farm or raise animals and has no interest in any of that stuff either. So I am left raising my hands in defeat half the time, trying to figure things out.

I appreciate all your suggestions and you are right, it's not a huge deal for elementary kids to get straight A's, but it makes it no easier to go from that to C's and D's in his core courses and only an A in PE, or Art.

I just wish I could motivate him, and get something out of him about what he needs to help him enjoy school a little more.
If he would put in even a small percentage of effort he would be doing very well, he just refuses to do any more than he has to to get by.

Drives me crazy!!! I need a little smiley that is pulling her hair out. LOL

Where is his Dad in all this? At the age your son is at, many times they respond much better to males than females. This is the age where they start to move away from their moms, and this includes just listening to them. Maybe if there is a strong male role model to read him the riot act (which you do have to do once in a while) that might be more effective. Just a thought.

I work with a lot of very bright people of different ages. I have noticed that a lot of exceptional young people do not "connect" with their teachers or parents til a bit later, but often do connect with an adult with hobbies or interests in common.

He may not be able to let go of his frustrations to talk to you yet, but if there is a personable counselor in the school system, perhaps you can arrange some time for your boy to communicate openly and privately, and step back.

Letting him have the freedom to speak his mind with an adult, and learn some methods to communicate to you what his stresses and frustrations are might help him open up some. He may lack the language at this point to explain the problem in an effective manner.

Have you asked him what you think you all should do? If he was an A student before and is doing poorly now because he's bored, he has to be aware on some level that continuing like this will only lead to more boredom--he'll either fail and have to repeat a grade or he'll be put in lower level classes with even more dull work. If you can talk to him in a sit-down, heart-to-heart kind of way and lead the conversation in such a way that he admits that he's not happy with his grades and would like to do better, then you can also lead the conversation around to HIM deciding what he should do to change the situation. It may well be your idea, but you can manipulate the conversation so that it comes out as his idea. With his "ownership" of the solution, it's far more likely to be successful. Some of that might just be admitting that it IS boring and tedious to do this stuff, but sometimes you have to put up with boring and tedious to get where you want to be. He may surprise you with some ideas--perhaps some activity he'd like to do that can be his reward for getting through his homework (along the lines of if he does his homework every day of the week, then he can go to the movies with his friends on the weekend, or he can't go out to play basketball until he's finished studying--don't make it be a big expensive reward, but rather something he likes to do daily or weekly already that he only allows himself to do once he's done the stuff he has to do).

Some of what he's dealing with may just be internal disorganization, which is pretty typical of the age, and he needs to learn for himself what it takes to get himself moving in the right direction and keeping on track with his work. Again, see if he can come up with ideas for solving the problem--maybe he needs visual reminders like a dry erase calendar with all of his tasks on it, or maybe a good alarm clock to keep him on task while he does his work.

But I really think the key is to get HIM involved in the solution. I suspect that if you just add work on he'll see it as punishment and dig in his heels further.

Sarah

His dad is here. He and his dad go head to head worse than I do with him. My DH is a SGT at the police department and has worked at the department for 28 years. He is very preachy and strong handed. The strong handed I do not mind, but the preachy stuff drives me as crazy as it does my son.

I have talked to my DH, (not in front of the boy of course) about making his point and then dropping it. It is a proved fact that most children will hear you for about a minute or 2 or maybe a little longer and then they begin to tune you out. Shoot, I do it myself if someone is going on and on about something. It's not intentional, but I catch myself tuning out too.

His father gets on him hard about things. We agree on punishments and things that need to be done, it's just that he gets very long winded and then I tend to lean to the more lenient side because of it. His approach needs as much if not more work than mine. Our son thinks that when we talk to him we are fussing. We can't seem to say anything even in the sweetest tone without him thinking that we are getting on to him.

I think you are right about the getting him to figure out what he thinks needs to be done, and letting him take ownership of it. I just don't know how to open up a conversation about it anymore.
He shuts down a lot of the times as soon as I broach the subject and then of course I get upset and start fussing at him, or just shut down too.
I always thought I would make sure I would have open communication with my child and tried to make sure he knew he could talk to me about anything. Somewhere I failed at that. He doesn't seem to trust us to open up to us and I guess that is our fault.


I will try again though. I never give up, I just feel like it sometimes.
I am always looking for new ways to approach him or help him.
I know he must be frustrated also, he just doesn't do anything about fixing the problem so the frustration goes away.

He really is a great kid. He's very responsible and trustworthy at home and when we go out. He behaves very well anywhere we go and never gets into any trouble at school. He's been taught to be polite and respectful. He loves to try to make people laugh once he gets to know them. He can be very silly and funny. His teachers and others usually find him very pleasant and love having him around. He can be very loving when he wants to be, but he's a teenage boy so that is not nearly as often as it use to be.

It's just school and getting work done. He test great most of the time so if they could just teach and then test, he would do fine. LOL

I don't have kids & understand my ideas may not be welcomed in this thread.

I thought of two places I see often near my work & although i don't know much about them, they might be of use/interest?

http://www.kipmcgrath.us/

http://www.kumon.com/

Just a thought.

I do not have much to offer in terms of advice.

But I remember an older thread about taking care of things in the home and sharing tasks with kids and spouses.

I seem to remember - and it rings right with what I read now - that your son doesn't do much around the house.

Maybe it's a good time to start. Maybe it's a time to do more together that's not necessarily focused on you telling him to do school work, but something that's productive, in which he gets to see you accomplish things and he gets to accomplish things in front of you.

Frankly, even if I was in the best school in the province, a gifted student among a thousand ultra-gifted students, school itself would never have been enough to make me want to go to school and do well. It was all the other stuff, leadership opportunities, social activities, volunteering, etc. that made me want to go. School stuff in itself never quite motivated me, it was too easy. I procrastinated my way to a PhD. But all the side aspects, that's what really gets me going.

Sorry that's all I can offer. Good luck!

This isn't really directly relevant to learning and grades, but anyway: our 11 yr.old is going through a pre-teen snotty fase, and we're trying to handle this constructively. We're pretty heavy on him on doing what he has to do, his few chores, homework, but we're also trying to show him that we're all in this together. I make a point out of asking him for favours he can do for me, and thanking him for them, inviting him to join me in housework that he doesn't have to do just because I enjoy his company, baking a cake, walking with me, asking for his opinion on things. This really seems to help with his disrespect issues, much more than just being authoritative and telling him all the stuff he can't do. Besides, he's a bright and funny kid and he loves me seeing that. :)

All good suggestions. As a former middle school teacher and a parent of 2 grown up boys, this is a really tough problem. I agree, he needs some responsibility in terms of stuff around the house. I too, stopped doing my kid's laundry when they turned 13. They did the dishes, made their beds, and helped with any big tasks outdoors (we already had cleaning help). I would also recommend volunteering, particularly in an area that he's really interested in. The school district I worked in had a strong community service requirement, mostly because we found that the kids, especially the troubled or otherwise unengaged ones really came through when the focus was on something other than themselves.
I know you don't live in a major metropolitan area, but is there a college, community college, or university nearby? That might be a resource for mentors, extra curricular stuff. I bet if you hooked him up with a techie type mentor, it would engage him.
Both of my kids worked around 10 hours a week when they turned 16. None of their friends worked, even through college. They had to manage their studies, activities, and for the younger one, his training and racing. The older one didn't do that well in ms and the first 2 years of hs (he skipped gym so much, he had to make it up by doing hours at the health club). When college got real, he did a lot better, but still, organization was a continual issue. But, he graduated with honors from college and has a great job, in addition to being bilingual and living in Italy for a year. He still has the ADD tendencies, but curiously, it never affects his work. The younger one was always "bored," and went from interest to interest. Once we had to take him, in a snowstorm to visit the MIT juggling club! He did fabulous in high school, started college as a sophomore because of all of his AP credits, and then quit to join the Marines. Why? He was "bored" with school and wanted to do something really hard. He's now happy, but ready to be done with the military when his enlistment is up in 2012.
So, you never can predict!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DDH

He really is a great kid. He's very responsible and trustworthy at home and when we go out. He behaves very well anywhere we go and never gets into any trouble at school. He's been taught to be polite and respectful. He loves to try to make people laugh once he gets to know them. He can be very silly and funny. His teachers and others usually find him very pleasant and love having him around. He can be very loving when he wants to be, but he's a teenage boy so that is not nearly as often as it use to be.

It's just school and getting work done. He test great most of the time so if they could just teach and then test, he would do fine. LOL

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I hope he sees /hears what you wrote here. Praise for what he is good now as a person ..while he improves in other areas..you can never go wrong here.

Donna- I feel for you because I think I know which district you are in and the struggles they have for parents and educators is well known. Under funded (story of life nationwide but dire in Texas), overpopulated.

I was bored to tears for the most part in middle school. I was also classified as gifted by the Round Rock ISD system but wow unless I was in those two or three classes you could shove the rest because I was out like a light with boredom. In middle school I spent a lot of time getting detention for being disruptive because I talked to my friends while the teacher talked, I just was bored. The thing that saved me was journalism and for regular class a tough as nails history teacher (seriously she was a former Army Sgt). Journalism we learned to develop film, layout papers, copy edit, crop, it was really interesting. I am tone deaf so I hated music electives but journalism was a great outlet.

I think by the time I got out in 1999 they had even started offering computer science to 8th grade and up as an elective, not sure. Is it possible to get him in an elective or activity that he will look forward to? I had to stay out of trouble to be able to stay on Newspaper staff, worked for me.

Hello!

I teach middle school in a school that separates boys and girls. I have also taught gifted middle schoolers and high schoolers for a while now.

There are a TON of research and resources about boys like yours.

I would start by reading the following two books:

Why Gender Matters
Boys Adrift (http://www.boysadrift.com/)
both are by Dr. Leonard Sax

Dr. Sax is highly respected in gender studies and education. I heard him speak this year, and I was extremely impressed.


Boys at that age disengage for a number of reasons, and there are ways to re-engage them into life. Most of those thing include authentic tasks for him rather than simply encouraging him to work harder. Most boys need more competition than regular public schools are willing to provide. The books I mentioned give many resources for programs that can help you with your boy. Trust me, you are not alone! The goal is for him to grow up to be a strong, loving, educated, intelligent man who can be proud of his life and decisions. That goal is harder now than ever, but it can still be achieved.

Good luck!

Kacie Darden

From everything you have said, it is plain as day that school is boring for him. Also, if P.E. and art are the subjects he is still doing well at, then it seems obvious that he would rather be doing something than sitting being talked at, which could be what he is getting a lot of at the moment.

Of course there's not a simple answer, but I personally believe that your son is the one who needs to take responsibility for his learning - it won't be motivating if anyone else does it for him. For example, if he can't face the prospect of writing yet another boring paper, then he should take some alternative ideas to his teachers (and coming up with some of these is where you can help). If he's into the techy stuff, then he might rather make a PowerPoint (which is not only on most school computers, but you can also do some really cool stuff with if you have a little patience) or a film (which doesn't have to require expensive equipment; you can make some really powerful stuff with stills and free software like MovieMaker or Photostory). His teachers are probably as frustrated as you are by his failing when he shouldn't be and although some of them might say no, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Good luck and hang in there. :) Just like Biciclista's sons, my brother was a bright yet mediocre school student who graduated university with an M.A. with first class honours.

1+ on Scouting. I'm a lifetime member of the Girl Scouts and it was an awesome experience. Find a troop where the leader encourages the boys to decide what badges to work on based on their interests. We totally did everything ourselves and had a great time because we were allowed that freedom. We ended up being the only troop in Jr High and HS in our county, so they always asked us to do encampments for the younger troops- again, a great opportunity for us to then teach the younger kids about stuff we were excited about a of course learning leadership.

I hope you can find something that works for him- I agree that a heart to heart from either you or DH to see what he'd rather be doing would be greatly helpful and then make that the reward once homework is done, or incorporate that into other topics. Like if he likes art but not science, have him do illustrations of bio and physics ideas, etc. I know what it's like to be bored to tears in a school district that's relatively limited. Our gifted classes bored me worse than normal classes- taking us from our normal classes and our social groups to then still not be stimulated enough. So I just had a million other activities- Girl scouts, sports, various clubs, and lots of artistic hobbies. I'm sure as others have pointed out he's probably smart enough to not want to be bored by a repeat year, so he'll probably find a way.

I don't have kids, but I have two brothers. One is 3 years younger, the other is 15 years younger. The 15-year younger one didn't have to lift a finger growing up. I really think that affected his comprehension of a work ethic.

In my opinion, kids taking responsibility at home increases the chances that they will take responsibility elsewhere. Learning the value of work at home is an essential step of learning the value of work in life.

Best of luck to you and your family.

Well girls, thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate everything everyone said.

He brought his progress report home yesterday and he is now failing, History, computer Lit, and Algebra. He will be fur-lowed out of algebra and put into regular 8th grade math if he fails this 9 weeks again, because he has to have a math credit to graduate 8th grade.

I've talk to his teachers and yes they are frustrated also.

We took all forms of entertainment away from him yesterday and he will have to earn his things back with an 85 or better in his classes.

I had him take everything out of his room, and when his father got home I let him take care of the rest. It wasn't pleasant, trust me, I was in tears.
I think his dad goes overboard with things, and he thinks I'm to lenient so we don't' always agree on parenting skills. We dint' argue about it or disagree with each other in front of our son, but we definitely have some different styles.
I dint' believe in double punishing and the long winding sermons. I believe that kids hear you for the initial point and then they shut down, could be wrong, but I remember my dad giving sermons when I was growing up and I just wanted to roll my eyes and leave the room. Also, I believe you have to be very careful in your wordage to a child. Children internalize things and they often hear negative things that are said and internalize them.
I try not to insult him and my husband believe in what he calls constructive criticism.
Regardless, I stepped back yesterday and let him handle things because obviously what I have been doing isn't working, so maybe the hard hand is what he needs. It upset me, but I left the room and let him continue.
I did step in when he started asking him what he was going to do when he grew up, "be a thief, or criminal?" . I only stepped in to say that bad grades doesn't make a bad person and that he is a very good kid.

I understand that being a police officer he sees the bad in the world and what not having an education does for you, or let me re-word that, COULD do for you. I just dint' want him to impose that on our 14 year old.


Anyway, I am going to make out a chore list for him, and give him some responsibilities around here and he will have to earn back his game system, phone and t.v and computer privileges.
I'm hoping that we will be able to get through to him before this school year is over so we can start 9th grade out on a good note, and maybe he can learn to enjoy school a little.

Aggie, you are right, the school system here is hard to work with. They have changed and taken away a lot of the things for the gifted kids because of finances as they waste 1000's of dollars on office equipment for the administration building. Dr Paterson (the superintendent) quit or retired 3 years ago, and Dr. Hawkins came in and made changes and it was predicted that he would stay long enough to mess things up and then leave, and this year he left. Now we will have another new superintendent that has just started. Lord knows what he will do, with all the economy problems.

Anyway, thanks so much everyone. Any more advice is always welcome and I appreciate each and every one of you.

We will make it through this teenager-ness, I think. LOL

Your area is also dealing with one of the most deployed bases in the US. Judging by a friend who ran screaming from teaching in the high school there a few years ago that brings a whole lot of challenges for the students, teachers, the general population! I feel for you, hang in there, I am not a parent but you all seem to survive. It is lovely outside today, can you sneak away for a walk or a ride?

Oh and as aside, push as hard as you can to not let them declassify him as gifted. They did that to my brother with similar issues to your son and it only got worse when he went into regular classes, be your own advocate for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDH
He really is a great kid. He's very responsible and trustworthy at home and when we go out. He behaves very well anywhere we go and never gets into any trouble at school. He's been taught to be polite and respectful. He loves to try to make people laugh once he gets to know them. He can be very silly and funny. His teachers and others usually find him very pleasant and love having him around. He can be very loving when he wants to be, but he's a teenage boy so that is not nearly as often as it use to be.

It's just school and getting work done. He test great most of the time so if they could just teach and then test, he would do fine. LOL

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Originally Posted by shootingstar

I hope he sees /hears what you wrote here. Praise for what he is good now as a person ..while he improves in other areas..you can never go wrong here.

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Most definitely, I try to make sure he understands that. I gave him a valentine card that stated how proud I was of him and he said "well I know that's a lie". I looked at him and I said "of course it isn't a lie."
I told him, there a many things to be proud of him about other than just grades and then I named these many things to him.
I told him, he is good looking, very smart regardless of what his grades say, funny, polite, well behaved, pleasent to be around, helpful when he wants to be, and everyone else likes him too. I told him "son, your grades don't make you who you are."

He is very much loved, and it amazes me that I can look at him and know he is my heart, yet he doesn't know it, even with all I do for him and as often as I tell him how much I love him. One negative thing going on in your life an so easily and quickly erase all the positives. I guess we are all guilty, I have to make myself step back at times and go, wait, things aren't so bad.

your conflict with your husband isn't helping. If you are sabotaging what he's saying to your son that is sending him very bad messages. Your husband does see first hand what happens when people don't do well in school. Sometimes a little "tough love" is just what they need. I agree you need to read that book, boys adrift.

My older son went from honors classes to the regular ones when he was a fresh or soph in high school. Boy, did he discover THAT was a mistake. but it was HIS mistake. and when he went to college, he was able to take all the classes he needed. might be good for that boy to fail. i'm serious.

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Originally Posted by DDH

I gave him a valentine card that stated how proud I was of him and he said "well I know that's a lie". I looked at him and I said "of course it isn't a lie."
I told him, there a many things to be proud of him about other than just grades and then I named these many things to him.
I told him, he is good looking, very smart regardless of what his grades say, funny, polite, well behaved, pleasent to be around, helpful when he wants to be, and everyone else likes him too. I told him "son, your grades don't make you who you are."

He is very much loved, and it amazes me that I can look at him and know he is my heart, yet he doesn't know it, even with all I do for him and as often as I tell him how much I love him. One negative thing going on in your life an so easily and quickly erase all the positives. I guess we are all guilty, I have to make myself step back at times and go, wait, things aren't so bad.

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Sounds like his self-confidence is low right now that he finds it tough to believe in praise from a good parent.

What is he interested right now/ his natural strong skill, either overt..or lying dormant? If he is not distracted by technological "toys", does he read anything that peaks his interest. Please find a way to work with this...I know it sounds so small but his horizons need to continously expand even if he is failing, etc. It doesn't matter. Reading passionately into area of one's own interest.. provides learning escape from demands of parents but provides intellectual stimulation. :D (Guess what I did, when I wanted to avoid household responsibilities/eldest child stuff. At least, my parents couldn't take away learning opportunities even if it was novels because of exposure to style, grammar and composition.)

And it could be just reading magazines and newspapers on regular basis. We must not get too narrow in our definition of acceptable reading sources to encourage children reading and intellectual thought long-term.

Is there any enjoyable activity shared between your hubby and son? Hopefully there will be something, even though right now might be some communication problems/stony silence. I agree that taking away his games to earn them back is enough punishment at his age, without long-winded lectures from his father.

Lots of resources for gifted kids here:

http://cty.jhu.edu/

and specifically for your situation: http://cty.jhu.edu/gifted/dcc/underachievement.html

I did the summer programs when I was that age (a long, long time ago!). One of the most valuable things about it was being around other kids who were bored at their regular schools, or maybe also had trouble fitting in socially because they happened to enjoy and be good at learning.

If I remember correctly, the programs weren't cheap, but there are scholarships and financial aid available.

I have to jump in here because your son reminds me a lot of a girl I know very intimately. She started out in elementary school kicking butt and taking names, even if she stared dreamily out the window once she "got" what was being taught.

She pulled down straight A's pretty much through middle school. Scored in the 99th percentile on her tests, took advanced math and other such classes and enjoyed being challenged.

Then in high school, despite being in honors classes she got bored. The challenge wasn't there and she didn't see the point in doing assignments she felt she could do with her eyes closed. So her grades slipped, her chances of getting into a good school and scoring scholarships disappeared.

Fortunately she was super into computers and taught herself web design, and after graduation worked in the SF Bay area until the dot com collapse. It was until she moved home and went to the local community college that a counselor suggested she might have ADD. Apparently it goes unnoticed a lot if girls because they don't tend to have the H part of it, hyperactivity.

So while I know everyone wants to slap the ADD label on kids it might be worth looking into. There are non-stimulant meds now, and it can be managed without meds too. Unfortunately for adults with ADD non med management is a catch 22 because it requires really having your sh*t together which most of don't.

I'd take a peek at a book called "Driven to Distraction." It made me cry and cry and cry my eyes out because I realized that perhaps my life could have been a whole lot different.

Anyway, I wouldn't rule it out. There are a lot of stereotypes about what ADD is and isn't, but that book will give you a good idea. Some people think it's about focus, but really ADD people can focus like mad, but typically on the things they want to.

well, DDH hope you and your hubby just continue to believe in the best of him while he works to ramp up the rest. And if there's a low-cost/no-cost activity on weekends or after school, that will naturally fall into his natural strengths/interest, even better. It makes me cringe when nowadays school budgets have trimmed down on the fine arts, music, sports, etc.

Unless, DDH you suspect something else, he doesn't sound like ADD at this point in his life. He just doesn't know of other alternatives for himself because as you say in your immediate school district there aren't specialized programs for gifted. My niece at around 15, was bored and approached her parents to see if she could go to a specialized school for bright/gifted kids. I don't think she was gifted, just very focused and bright when she put her little mind to it. Parents were abit surprised but ..in the end, she got a little bursary to help her along.

I don't have children so my thoughts aren't as useful. I'm only a bystander to watching my partner deal with his 2 children as they grew up. His daughter is self-directed learner and always did well. She has her Master's in English Lit. His son felt he was always in the shadow of his older sister's accomplishments (sounds familiar to some of us??). He was an average student and more of a social animal. He (nor his sister) got into drugs and they each had a crowd of good friends. At 16 yrs., he started to fail...and eventually not go to school. Finally each of his parents (who were divorced by then, but thankfully had parallel parenting styles and values), each told him, either he stay in school or find a job.

To make this story shorter, he left home, hung out with some friends...and THANKFULLY found jobs in restaurants in Victoria, lived there. Got a girl pregnant...let's see by then, he was 20. Needless to say my partner was more than surprised.

Split up with girlfriend, came back to Toronto,..got his high school diploma, took some community college courses to become a chef.

He is now 28, happily married to another woman who just finished her university degree. He faithfully pays his child support and has his son with him in visits when it's his turn. He voraciously collects and reads cheffy cookbooks. Whenever he or we visit him, he cooks us these incredible gourmet chef meals..like the stuff you see in TV. Kinda like black box of ingredients ..and pouff,..a tasty meal.

Most ironically, his son was a supervising chef for a major chic restaurant in toronto where my brother-in-law also worked for awhile. All coincidental.

And I firmly believe, that his son would have fallen much further down the pit if it weren't for:

a) a father who consistently listened, communicated and visited his son.
b) a mother who did the same as well.
c)child is held accountable for his /her own life decisions as they grow into teenagehood and beyond.

And that the parenting styles for the child needs to be good and parallel.