Race Geometry: Am I crazy?

I'm pretty sure I am going to be getting a new bike. I'm just not sure about which type of geometry I will be most happy with.

And btw, "no" unfortunately the lbs (s) do not carry my small size in stock to try and ride an assortment *sigh*.

There is a beautiful white Cervelo R3 (not in my size in stock at lbs) at the lbs I'm going for a fitting at next week. It's very agressive race geometry.

Well, I'm not sure I really see myself as a die hard racer. Maybe I would try racing, but I wouldn't be seeking the bike out for that reason.

I do have some back issues (degenerative disk disease) and normally the thought is to steer away from agressive geometry for that reason. But, when I tried some upright styles in the past, it just felt wrong. Maybe it's old school of my steele 10 speed as a kid coming back to me:rolleyes:.

I know the first question the lbs folks want to know is: "what type of riding do you want to do?". In theory, if I'm not competing in races, why own a race bike:confused: one might say.

Well... my lame answer of what do I like (or would like to do) on my bike: 1) go fast, 2) go far.

What I hate about my bike I have now:
1) hindsight 20/20 wsd geometry is wrong for my short legs, and long torso
2) it's 2 frame sizes too big--trying to make the short wsd top tube fit my torso is how I think this sizing mistake happened (& not great lbs)
3) the aluminum frame is so ruff on chip seal (my main riding roads), I dread riding
4) I feel like when I'm hammering my best power efforts into the bike, I'm still getting no where fast... it's like the bike and I are in a fight (pulling a dog behind you on a leash that doesn't want to properly heel--hope that makes sense to some of you:o).

Oh course I will tell the bike shop fitter all this next week. Just looking for some thoughts from my TE friends:).

I will be blunt. You NEED to try some bikes out. No way around it. A good LBS will accommodate you! Even if you have to travel to a nearby city to try them out, please make that trip.

Get a bike that is comfortable and don't worry about the geometry ("aggressive" or whatever). You will be the fastest and strongest rider you can be if your bike fits YOU properly. Bikes that look fast but don't fit are no fun to ride.

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Originally Posted by tulip

Get a bike that is comfortable and don't worry about the geometry ("aggressive" or whatever). You will be the fastest and strongest rider you can be if your bike fits YOU properly.

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Exactly. I'm old and slow and I ride a race geometry. Why? Because I love the feel and I love the idea of my go-fast machine. Yes, the handlebars are closer to level with the saddle than 4 inches below (again, I'm old), but I love the feel of a bike that responds when I kick (the opposite feeling of your #4). It is like being a kid again.

Do I get poked fun of? All the time, but age has taught me to ignore (and chuckle at) the youngin's who are clearly jealous that the old, slow lady has a screaming race machine that she toodles along on.

Try the bikes and get what feels right. But, remember, when you whittle it down to the final one or two, take the bike out for a long ride over varied terrain. What feels good on a 2 mile ride might have kinks on 20.

It's such a large investment that it's worth a bit of travel to a well stocked shop.
Perhaps you can do some digging online, and make an appointment at a shop with a good stock?

I offered to pay for the service woman's time when she helped me try on bikes knowing I would not buy there due to distance.

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Originally Posted by Miranda

3) the aluminum frame is so ruff on chip seal (my main riding roads), I dread riding

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Ever thought of something like a suspension seatpost?

I'm just thinking.... I love my aluminium frame. I've had carbon, I wouldn't know if I can tell the difference.

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Originally Posted by tulip

I will be blunt. You NEED to try some bikes out. No way around it. A good LBS will accommodate you! Even if you have to travel to a nearby city to try them out, please make that trip.

Get a bike that is comfortable and don't worry about the geometry ("aggressive" or whatever). You will be the fastest and strongest rider you can be if your bike fits YOU properly. Bikes that look fast but don't fit are no fun to ride.

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Tulip... I know you are right *sigh*.

I've traveled the less than hour radius loop looking without success. Next bigger towns are about a half day drive. I'll just have to geek it out and call ahead.

I'm just frustrated:(. I've wasted a lot of time prior riding seasons. I just don't want to be spinning my wheels wasting another riding season upcoming. WHICH, I know is your point exactly ultimately on the waste point.

Hopefully if I get a move out NOW, that won't happen this year.

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Originally Posted by Thorn

Exactly. I'm old and slow and I ride a race geometry. Why? Because I love the feel and I love the idea of my go-fast machine. Yes, the handlebars are closer to level with the saddle than 4 inches below (again, I'm old), but I love the feel of a bike that responds when I kick (the opposite feeling of your #4). It is like being a kid again.

Do I get poked fun of? All the time, but age has taught me to ignore (and chuckle at) the youngin's who are clearly jealous that the old, slow lady has a screaming race machine that she toodles along on.

Try the bikes and get what feels right. But, remember, when you whittle it down to the final one or two, take the bike out for a long ride over varied terrain. What feels good on a 2 mile ride might have kinks on 20.

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May I just start by saying... I love you:D.

I had this thought, but didn't type it out... OK, how's it gonna look for the old broad that's probably never taking first place against the youngins' in the group with my fancy bike:rolleyes:. I too have graced on that I don't give a rip... they'd just have to be jealous.

And yes, while I do love to ride along at screaming speeds possible... I also like to dismount at my favorite farm house and watch how the baby billy goats are doing. My die hard race friends don't believe in such nonsense lol.

On the "kick" part of the bike, that is my other thought... my body doesn't have the same energy to "waste" on a ride. I want every ounce I put into my bike's movement forward to produce.

EDIT: I guess I should add that in comparison to those of my own age (and some youngins'), I'm pretty fit cardiovascularly and lung capacity wise. On that one, I could hold my own for quite a long time. So, I guess an old broad with some spunk is probably a good way to put it;).

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Originally Posted by derailed

It's such a large investment that it's worth a bit of travel to a well stocked shop.
Perhaps you can do some digging online, and make an appointment at a shop with a good stock?

I offered to pay for the service woman's time when she helped me try on bikes knowing I would not buy there due to distance.

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I would be happy to pay someone for help like that. I happy also to pay for a test ride or demo program.

I think the whole dealership issue makes it hard. I asked the fitter (& owner) at the lbs I'm going to if I wanted something that was not a brand he carried, could he get it and build it for me. (Thinking, if the fit goes well, I feel comfy with the shop, I'd try to buy as support).

He said if another dealership has that brand tied up, then "no". Or, some company's will only sell to the shop in quantities. So, then again "no". I understand. But, it makes it hard for me to spend my $ there if they don't end up having what I want or need. It's kinda a frustrating two way situation.

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Originally Posted by alpinerabbit

Ever thought of something like a suspension seatpost?

I'm just thinking.... I love my aluminium frame. I've had carbon, I wouldn't know if I can tell the difference.

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That's an interesting point. I'll keep in in mind. That's something I love about this board. Two TE heads work much better than my one alone:).

Cervelo also makes the RS, which has a taller top tube. It also has 650 wheels in the smallest size, allowing for excellent geometry. I'm 5' 4.5" and the XS would probably be the size for me. You might take the S, though.

Terry's Fast Woman is steel and has more aggressive geometry and a longer top tube, which might work well for you. You can buy a frame only so you could transfer your gruppo over.

I have a bike (Merlin Atreus) with 'aggressive' race geometry and I love it. I use about 20mm of spacers below my stem, but otherwise haven't mucked it up. I absolutely love its geometry and love riding it. Partly it's the material (Ti), partly the geometry. Responsive but not twitchy steering.

When I ride my Merlin I feel a lot more attached to my bike, versus my cyclocross bike (LeMond Poprad) with its higher bottom bracket, where I feel more like I'm riding on top of the bike.

I hope you have a great fitting!

I am also old and slow and I have a somewhat esoteric race bike that might have some people making fun of me.
But, I don't care. I am pretty fit for my age and if some think I'm a wanna be, let them. I actually have received more c**p from people my age who have been riding for years that are just too cheap to buy a bike like mine. It's a particular brand of reverse snobbism that is somewhat common here in New England. So while they ride around with their bikes literally taped together, they make fun of me...
The moral is, don't let others decide for you.

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Originally Posted by ilima

Cervelo also makes the RS, which has a taller top tube...

Terry's Fast Woman is steel and has more aggressive geometry and a longer top tube...

I hope you have a great fitting!

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Thx! I didn't realize that about the Terry Fast Woman. I'll geek out the specs and a dealer. I had written it off as a brand since it's wsd in nature.

The fitting shop did have a Cervelo RS on display (again, big size). I geeked out the geometry and I think the stand over would be if-y. I'm 29" inseam so metric that's 736mm. The xs size RS is 732mm. If I do the Lemond 2/3 of your inseam as a starting point, that's about a 48cm bike. I'm 5 4 1/2" (used to be 5'5" until I shrunk:mad:). With most of my height being upper body, I could take the longer top tube... and/or stem. Which ever way it works out to fit.

I am kinda excited about the fitting. I hope it gives me some answers I need.

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Originally Posted by Crankin

I am also old and slow and I have a somewhat esoteric race bike that might have some people making fun of me...
It's a particular brand of reverse snobbism...

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I appreciate your sharing that. I would agree. OK, yes, the price of the bike is high. But, if I weigh that out to what my bike does for me, it's so worth it! Physical health and mental well being--plus just joy:). Gheez, if I added up all the unhealthy doctor bills, shrink bills, and anti-depressants... hmm, I think the snob group would have a hard time arguing that. Well... OK, they would still probably argue.

I have some chip seal roads around me... and they're absolutely miserable on an aluminum frame, even if I've got a carbon fork & gel padding on the handlebars... it just ends up hurting my wrists and having them go numb, and then not being able to ride for a week while I tried to let them recover. In my experience carbon fiber seat stays and switching to a carbon fiber handlebar does make a huge difference...

So now I tend to avoid the chip sealed roads (which is annoying 'cause it was one of my favorite roads previous to the chip sealing)....

However, I did invest (well, craigslist invest) in a full carbon frame, carbon fiber wheels, and handlebars... I went down the chip seal road yesterday, and all my carbon fiber absorbed the annoyance of the chipseal... It was noisier, but my wrists didn't suffer for it.

The carbon fiber frame I bought off craigslist, is actually an effective 54 cm, but I'm pretty much using it as a more upright ride... It had a 46" seattube, and about a 540 mm top tube... so it's a longer top tube than my other bike, so I guess it stretches me out a bit more... but I'd say my seat is about even with the height of my handlebars.

I also love how stiff/responsive the bike is... I'm in no way a racer...

Another suggestion for chip-seal (we have a bit of it out this way too) is wider tires. 25c and up are going to absorb more road chatter than the typical 23c. If I were in your position I'd get a full-carbon frame, carbon seatpost, saddle with ti rails, GOOD padded gloves, and run 25c tires.

Good luck and keep us posted!

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Originally Posted by Catriona

I have some chip seal roads around me... and they're absolutely miserable on an aluminum frame...
So now I tend to avoid the chip sealed roads (which is annoying 'cause it was one of my favorite roads previous to the chip sealing)....

However, I did invest (well, craigslist invest) in a full carbon frame
I also love how stiff/responsive the bike is... I'm in no way a racer...

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I had my bike traveling once and found a club's route I tried out. Omg, WORST chip and seal... but dead quite no traffic. The scenery was beautiful too. At the end of the route I felt like my teeth had chattered out of my head from the aluminum frame. Sad, because I'd go back to the route otherwise. The end of that ride was the moment I made my mind up that carbon was in my future. Good for you on the carbon find.

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

Another suggestion for chip-seal (we have a bit of it out this way too) is wider tires. 25c and up are going to absorb more road chatter than the typical 23c. If I were in your position I'd get a full-carbon frame, carbon seatpost, saddle with ti rails, GOOD padded gloves, and run 25c tires.

Good luck and keep us posted!

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Thx Emily... On the teeth chattering ride I mentioned above I had some 25s on my bike (just switched to 23s)--good to know it was helping me some. I have a carbon seat post and fork now. I can't wait to test ride something that's all carbon. AND... I know exactly which road (aka story above) I am going to put it to the test on;). Plus, it has a killer hill that is the only time I have ever felt like I needed (& used) my triple. We'll see how I do with a compact or standard as well. I guess it's the "do or die" test ride route lol.

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Originally Posted by Miranda

Thx Emily... On the teeth chattering ride I mentioned above I had some 25s on my bike (just switched to 23s)--good to know it was helping me some. I have a carbon seat post and fork now. I can't wait to test ride something that's all carbon. AND... I know exactly which road (aka story above) I am going to put it to the test on;). Plus, it has a killer hill that is the only time I have ever felt like I needed (& used) my triple. We'll see how I do with a compact or standard as well. I guess it's the "do or die" test ride route lol.

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The only other option I can think of for you would be a full-suspension mountain bike with slick tires! It would be very comfy but slower than a road bike, obviously! :D

Thx Emily... On the teeth chattering ride I mentioned above I had some 25s on my bike (just switched to 23s)--good to know it was helping me some. I have a carbon seat post and fork now. I can't wait to test ride something that's all carbon. AND... I know exactly which road (aka story above) I am going to put it to the test on;). Plus, it has a killer hill that is the only time I have ever felt like I needed (& used) my triple. We'll see how I do with a compact or standard as well. I guess it's the "do or die" test ride route lol.[/QUOTE]


I had 700x23c's on the carbon frame yesterday - I do put gel under my handlebar tape, but I yanked the pads out of my gloves 'cause they hurt my wrists. I still feel a big bump on the carbon bike.

If you don't get full carbon, at least get carbon seat stays.

The craigslist find was a basically new carbon frame for cheap enough that I wasn't going to care too much if I wrecked it or it broke... I've kept my old frame around for just in case.

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

The only other option I can think of for you would be a full-suspension mountain bike with slick tires! It would be very comfy but slower than a road bike, obviously! :D

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HA! :p:) That would be one cushy ride, Emily. I almost did that with my mtb bike, but it's not full susp. Then I found some good dirt to ride her in like she was intended for so life with that bike is good now. I did however learn from TE that I should run a bit less tire pressure for more comfort. I was running them at the max fill. When researching tires here, I got the advice to run less for comfort. So, got that on the list too.

If you're looking for a smooth ride they I would say the Look Elle is a great option. It is just beautiful. I feel like I could ride a long long way. And I ride on chipseal too, it makes a huge huge difference. It sounds like you're looking for a high end bike with a more "plush" fit - aka the RS or the Elle.

Remember if you find a bike you like at another shop but want the another more local shop to build it you can always buy the frame online, or from the far away shop, and then have it built to your exact specs at your local shop. If you buy all the shiny bits etc from them and pay them to build it they will likely give you excellent service for years to come. Just an idea. Also remember that bike fitting is an art and everyone will have a different opinion.

What's your budget?

I skimmed your post...I remember bad back...I remember you want to go fast...I remember you've avoided aggressive bikes in the past.

I say either Specialized Roubaix, Cannondale Synapse, Cervelo RS or custom. End of thread. The three stock bikes I mentioned are fast fast fast...comfy as a cadillac...and have slightly relaxed geometry. If you know exactly what you want, you could just have the customer maker of your choice just make your dream bike for you! :)

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Originally Posted by fidlfreek

If you're looking for a smooth ride they I would say the Look Elle is a great option. It is just beautiful. I feel like I could ride a long long way. And I ride on chipseal too, it makes a huge huge difference. It sounds like you're looking for a high end bike with a more "plush" fit - aka the RS or the Elle.

Remember if you find a bike you like at another shop but want the another more local shop to build it you can always buy the frame online, or from the far away shop, and then have it built to your exact specs at your local shop. If you buy all the shiny bits etc from them and pay them to build it they will likely give you excellent service for years to come. Just an idea. Also remember that bike fitting is an art and everyone will have a different opinion.

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Thanks!:) When I asked the owner about Look, he had to think a long minute. I'm sure he was processing if there was any dealer territory in our area (which I already knew the answer was "no" per Mr. Google). Then, he said if he could get one as a dealer without having to buy a mass, he'd get it and do it.

I didn't say anything at the time, but I thought "I know I can get it... via click the web for one". Of course the lbs is vially opposed to you buying anything from the web. Which, I know they do need our support, and I try to give it when applicable. But, I mean really... if they can't get it, no one sells it, etc.--give it up already.

I had thought exactly as you say. Get the frameset myself, and let the shop that fit me, build her up to suit.

Of course, I'll need to make sure the fitting advice goes with the bike geometry. I'd take the Look specs in and let the fitter/owner compare.

I'd have to geek out some more where one was to test ride. They are not a common bike here. Trek is really big in our area, and Specialized has just come in too. No 'Look', though. I don't know why that is.

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Originally Posted by celerystalksme

What's your budget?

I skimmed your post...I remember bad back...I remember you want to go fast...I remember you've avoided aggressive bikes in the past.

I say either Specialized Roubaix, Cannondale Synapse, Cervelo RS or custom. End of thread. The three stock bikes I mentioned are fast fast fast...comfy as a cadillac...and have slightly relaxed geometry. If you know exactly what you want, you could just have the customer maker of your choice just make your dream bike for you! :)

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I had expected a nice carbon would be $3-5K. Though, I had not really planned on buying it this season:rolleyes:.

Thanks for the tip about the Roubaix and Synapse. We do have dealers for those locally.

Specialized is new in town. Last at the shop, they did not have any small sized frames on hand. Their sales peeps are not so great on fit stuff, but the shop in general is ok. I'd buy there if it was what I wanted/needed.

I don't know about Cannodale. One dealer is where my current bike came from. I would not waste my spit on their shop door mat after the things that happened post taking my $.

The other shop dealer is not good post sale either. If you order anything that is not on their shop floor you are stuck with it. Sorry, I can't forsee the future if I will like something if I have never laid eyes on it in person, or tried it at all.

They ordered something wrong once and I was still stuck with it. It makes me feel uncomfortable spending $ on a whole bike there.

The Cervelo RS is a nice bike also, but the smallest frame available SO height is above or right at my short 29" inseam *sigh of drats*. Or, that would be a good bike too.

I HATE THESE SHORT LEGS OF MINE!!! :mad: & a Boo Hoo :(

With that budget, why not go custom? Luna bikes are amazingly smooth steel (with carbon fork and seat stays if you want them) bikes. There are other custom bikes out there, too, but I have a Luna and can only speak to that: my Luna is wonderful! Bleeker also has one. Margo the framebuilder is a poster here on TE, too.

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Originally Posted by Miranda

OK, yes, the price of the bike is high. But, if I weigh that out to what my bike does for me, it's so worth it! Physical health and mental well being--plus just joy:).

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Yep....and then calculate how much time you spend on the bike...you want it to fit well and you want to enjoy it, but now that we know your price range...I agree with Tulip (again--she's a wise woman). Go custom.

My bike is custom steel and it is wonderful.....smooths the bumps but still has that get up and go. I happen to live 20 minutes from Waterford, WI so I ride a Waterford. Luna was my second choice, but if I have the chance to be fit directly by the builder, I went Waterford (but, Margo, I still have dreams of a scream orange cyclocross beauty).

A custom builder can tweak that frame just for you, not just in fit, but also in how it handles (twitchiness), performs (kicks), and rides (smooth). If you have the money, you cannot spend it better. Call Margo.

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Originally Posted by tulip

... why not go custom?

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Originally Posted by Thorn

...I agree with Tulip (again--she's a wise woman). Go custom.

A custom builder can tweak that frame just for you, not just in fit, but also in how it handles (twitchiness), performs (kicks), and rides (smooth). ...Call Margo.

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I really had not considered that at all. I was thinking a custom build would be much much more than a stock carbon bike. I just totally put the idea out of my head. I don't really know that much about the process. (I am familiar with Margo's post though).

The price range is pushing it, but when I look at some lesser priced carbons, I think would this keep me happy? Or would I have wished I had just upgraded on this bike and be settled. But, when you start talking about the bike being built for you, well... that's a whole different ball game.

One of my gym pals from spin class, who is a very good cyclists, has a custom steele. I didn't know this. After class this w/e I asked her about her frame size because we are pretty close build (same height, same inseam with short legs, long torso, etc.). I just figured she rode a nice carbon. I don't know who built the steele for her.

Steele was something I had not considered as light, fast, or smooth. Well, I still have my old steele 10 speed from being a kid hanging on hooks in my garage. Of course she's dead heavy. Was just a cheap bike. But, I do actually feel what little I've ridden her in recent past she is smoother over bumps than my aluminum. Hmmm--my brain kinda hurts now:eek::p:o. Btw, thx though... I post here because of getting advice I'd never thought of on my own:).

yeah... I spent that much on a custom steel bike from a small unknown framebuilder in 1987 (I mean, I had over $3K in the whole bike by the time it was built). I don't think it would get you custom now. I could be wrong, but definitely price out the whole bike before you commit to a frame.

The Synapse is a decent bike for a very reasonable price. The WSD bike has pretty relaxed geometry, yet it's plenty responsive and I don't notice a lot of wasted energy. I assume you'd be going for the men's version though the way you described your build. I don't know much about that bike, but since Cannondale has racier bikes in men's geometry, the Synapse may be a bit more relaxed.

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Originally Posted by Miranda

Hmmm--my brain kinda hurts now:eek::p:o.

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:D :D :D Ah, ladies, our job here is done :D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Miranda

Steele was something I had not considered as light, fast, or smooth. Well, I still have my old steele 10 speed from being a kid hanging on hooks in my garage. Of course she's dead heavy. Was just a cheap bike.

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Seriously, though, today's steel isn't the steel of your childhood. Margo can go through the nitty gritty, but today's steel is lighter and a good builder can work miracles. My steel bike is a few pounds lighter than the Cannondale aluminum it replaced. And I'm big (I ride a 58/60cm frame). I seem to recall you said 29" inseam? There isn't that much frame there. The weight of the frame will not be a huge factor.

But, seriously, if custom steel ends up on your radar, drop over to the Terry website. Not for the bikes (you don't sound like a WSD fit), but because Georgina Terry has two interesting interviews with Richard Schwinn (Waterford Bikes) on the today's steel.

$3-5k is alot of money to spend on a nice bike. Check out Luna's site, as well as Waterford. You can easily push a Seven, IF, or Serotta to $7k, but there are plenty of awesome custom builders, and many bikes in your range. Go custom.

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Originally Posted by emily_in_nc

Another suggestion for chip-seal (we have a bit of it out this way too) is wider tires. 25c and up are going to absorb more road chatter than the typical 23c. If I were in your position I'd get a full-carbon frame, carbon seatpost, saddle with ti rails, GOOD padded gloves, and run 25c tires.

Good luck and keep us posted!

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I was going to make the same suggestion about moving up in tire size. You could even try a 28c if your brakes/frame will clear them.

+eleventy on the recommendation to look into steel. My steel Bianchi is a racer at heart (and geometry) and lightweight, but she's plenty compliant on rough roads and comfortable for hours at a time.

If you just need a frame and fork, a custom might be in your budget after all...

:)Thx to you all. That does give me more things to think about. I did a small amount of lurking looking at some steele on line. I need to find some to ride. Besides the heavy 25+yr old girl hanging in my garage:rolleyes:. I will mention this to the fitter when I go also.

Back to brain explosion clean up on aisle #4 lol... ;)

Ok, so I went and rode on chipseal today just for Miranda.

It was very good at slower speeds and very very much better than my old aluminum bianchi. However, at higher speeds (like 25+) it was still bone jarring. I like that feeling but realize that w/ degenerative disk issues you may not. So thats my honest opinion.

Regarding the whole "buying something I can't try first". It feels a little mail order bride, but thats exactly what I did. A close friend was very passionate about his Look and thats why I got it. Remember that anything in this price range is going to be kickass - like comparing a BMW to a Mercedes.

Price range wise my Elle as built would maybe fit. maybe. I spent around $3300 but bought a deeply discounted frame, a few gently loved Dura Ace parts (and all the new DA parts from ebay) and my not-super-spendy wheelset on a pretty darn good deal from Performance. And then my BF built it for me. If I bought this all retail from a dealer I think the final price tag would have been more than 5k. And I didn't even go 7900. Thats not to say you couldn't build it for less by going w/ Ultegra level components etc. However, the standover height on my small is between 28 and 29 inches. :(

I think the ladies talking about custom steel is great! Serotta makes a Coeur de Acier that would fit into your price range and be built to your exact geometry. :) The frameset weighs a bit more, maybe a pound, than the high end CF framsets but that really doesn't matter if you end up w/ a bike that feels great and fits you like a glove!

+1 on steel and potentially custom . . .

My first road bike was steel and made custom for a lady with similar measurements to mine. It was so light and responsive! Unfortunately it took a ride without me one day. Next bike is also steel, but a stock Rodriguez. They started making/stocking smaller frame sizes based on all the fit data they've collected over the years.

Rodriguez has lots of frame options for shorter riders (www.rodcycle.com), and they have a nice long-distance test-ride program, too. If you need custom they only add on $200.

Don't know where you are, but there are some excellent frame builders in the Seattle area. I'm sure if you did a search some threads would pop up regarding people's experiences with them.

I understand Terry also has a good test program, if you can't find a Terry dealer in your area.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by fidlfreek

Ok, so I went and rode on chipseal today just for Miranda.

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Awe:o:)... Thx so much for doing a "Miranda-test-ride" and reporting back:cool:! Anyone to purposely endure the nasty chip and seal is a good soul. Well, that gives me some more to think about.

One lbs shops just started carrying Specialized. They had a 52cm carbon demo that was going to be available for rent. Not my size, but maybe rideable enough I could get an idea of a carbon ride.

That was a deal on the final price of your Look, btw. I do know what you mean about the mail order bride part. And yes, at that level, the bike is going to be nice regardless.

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Originally Posted by jocelynlf

+1 on steel and potentially custom . . .

I understand Terry also has a good test program, if you can't find a Terry dealer in your area.

Good luck!

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Thx for that link. It looks like a great shop. Midwest local though. However, I E-ed the aquiant that has a custom steele and she replied with the name of her builder. It would be a road-trip, but do-able. I'll have to arrange to check out her ride.

I geeked out the Terry dealers as well. They are further off. But, I thought even riding one of them would give me a steele ride feel.

One of my friends who is a carbon lover said that he thought "steele was for folks who liked to feel the road beneath them"... meaning the steele is not forgiving:confused:? From what I read here, it's smooth?:confused::confused: Hmmm...

I think the fitter will help decide which way is best to turn. If I'm so far out of whack to standard frames, the custom just might be my ticket.

I can't really speak for steel 'cause I've never really had one... my bf's got a titanium litespeed and he loves it because he says he can feel the road beneath him... if he rides over a pebble, he can feel it etc.

It's unfortunately too big for me to actually ride, but I did coast down a hill with it once - and it's buzzy. He says they're not annoying or painful vibrations and he likes them - they're not jarring or uncomfortable like aluminum.

He thinks my carbon or aluminum/carbon bikes feel dead... Which has been my goal. Whereas, with titanium or steel you get the road feel.

I need to test ride a titanium road bike in my size sometime to see if I'd like it.

It's about geometry and the style of the frame as much as the material.... a stiffer, lighter bike will give a more harsh ride regardless of the material, while a bike with more touring style geometry will be more forgiving. You can make a harsh ti bike (ti is usually known for giving a smoother ride) and a plush aluminum one - there's just give and take with weight and handling.

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Originally Posted by Catriona

I can't really speak for steel 'cause I've never really had one... my bf's got a titanium litespeed and he loves it because he says he can feel the road beneath him... if he rides over a pebble, he can feel it etc.

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That's what my carbon loving guy friend said too about Ti. He said on a hard climb he could feel the bike 'flex' underneath him and he didn't like it. One of the shop guys said about carbon is that "you are one with the bike".

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Originally Posted by Eden

It's about geometry and the style of the frame as much as the material....

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Makes sense:). I think it's a trade off of what you prefer in the end. For me, I know some things I certainly do not like. But, on some other things I'm undecided as of yet.