Insulted and don't know what to do (kinda long)

I've recently taken up photography. I've taken photos all my life, but last fall I started to look at it much more seriously. I'm not a prodigy or anything, but some of my stuff, IMHO, is decent. And I know I still have a lot to learn.

My husband's friend and his friend's fiancee own a gallery. It's a really down-to-earth, fun kind of gallery, not snooty at all, and they are both very nice. The fiancee invited me to the gallery's annual "call for art", an invitation for artists to show them portfolios of their work, and then they decide if the artist should be featured in the gallery. I assumed she did this because she looked at my stuff and thought it was decent. Maybe that was the wrong assumption, I'm not sure. But I mentioned it to my husband, and I said that I didn't think I was ready but that maybe I could show them my stuff and see what they thought. He was very encouraging, so I accepted the offer and told her I'd see her tomorrow.

Tonight at dinner I mentioned to my husband that I was nervous. I was looking for a few words of encouragement, but what I got was far from it. He basically said that he didn't think I was ready, that I don't compose my photos well and even stated, when directly asked, that he thought I would embarrass him (He's an artist himself, formally trained - has a BFA from a top art school, and works in design). I told him that I was insulted but he just kept going, making me feel even worse. The more I told him that I was hurt by his words the more blunt he got. I wanted to cry but we were in a restaurant, I couldn't even get up and walk away. And now I'm just so angry at him. I told the woman at the gallery that I would meet with her because he encouraged me! And then tonight he validated all my insecurities and told me I'd embarrass him.

So now I don't know what to do. I don't want to show them my work if I'm really not ready (and I don't think I am) but I already said I'd meet with her. Should I go or should I cancel? What would you do?

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Originally Posted by Flur

Tonight at dinner I mentioned to my husband that I was nervous. I was looking for a few words of encouragement, but what I got was far from it. He basically said that he didn't think I was ready, that I don't compose my photos well and even stated, when directly asked, that he thought I would embarrass him (He's an artist himself, formally trained - has a BFA from a top art school, and works in design). I told him that I was insulted but he just kept going, making me feel even worse. The more I told him that I was hurt by his words the more blunt he got. I wanted to cry but we were in a restaurant, I couldn't even get up and walk away. And now I'm just so angry at him. I told the woman at the gallery that I would meet with her because he encouraged me! And then tonight he validated all my insecurities and told me I'd embarrass him.

So now I don't know what to do. I don't want to show them my work if I'm really not ready (and I don't think I am) but I already said I'd meet with her. Should I go or should I cancel? What would you do?

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I'm sorry your hubby seemed so inconsistent in his remarks towards your photos. That really hurts.

But his opinion is different from the woman's opinion. Just go and show your work. And don't allow yourself to get hurt if hubby doesn't come along to the exhibit or doesn't seem to support you. There's something nagging him which is more his insecurities...is he doing well with applying his BFA for a related job or what? Not for you to query right now..later after you see woman. No point allowing yourself getting uptight/distracting yourself.

Then you can come home afterwards and talk to him some more.

But you own your own creative achievements and failures...outside of your family and your friends. In the end, they are not responsible for your creative projects particularily if you created them on your own /with your own hands/head.

*I make this remarks because as a teenager my parents actually were trying to DISCOURAGE me from taking more art courses in high school and mucking around at home with paints. Imagine the occasional teen arguments where I cried and argued long and hard. You have to remember they wanted their children to excel in established well-paying professions, because we were poor. So yes, I stood up to them...by ignoring them and took over 6 art courses in high school. I didn't give a damn about rebelling in terms of drugs, booze, sex. Art was the most important thing to me at that tender age.

Bah! Shall I give your husband the benefit of the doubt and think he was trying to cushion any possible "rejection" in his own stupidly lunk-headed way?

You've been invited and have agreed to meet, so why not go for it? If you can be objective perhaps you'll get some insight on what sells that you can use if you care to aim in that direction. Note, I said sells, not 'is good'. Sometimes those words are not interchangeable. Keep that in mind and remember to hear not only any criticisms, but also the compliments.

Best wishes! :)

There's criticism and then there's constructive criticism. Saying you would embarrass him is harsh to put it mildly.
Go see the gallery owner by yourself. Tell her your concerns and also tell her you'd welcome any constructive criticism. She should be able to point you in the right direction with diplomacy and discretion.

And let Mr.Flur know you don't appreciate being referred to as an embarrassment :mad: :mad: :mad:

What is the worst thing that will happen to you if you show her your photos? She might not like them? Then you say, "Tell me what areas I could improve in?" It's a lot of experimentation with settings and sometimes it's all about stumbling upon something incredible. You may go in, though, and she may love them! So have confidence in what you've done so far and please go and show her. I think it's wonderful that you have this opportunity so take advantage of it, no matter how it turns out.

As for your hubby, I'm very sorry he said what he did and hurt your feelings. He may very well be jealous of this opportunity you've been given. Or he may be overreacting at the last minute out of fear of seeing you hurt. Either way, this is an opportunity for you to grow in your talent and you should take advantage of it.

Good luck with it all.

I'm not sure what to say about your husband, it defintely doesn't sound very nice of him - but I went over to your flickr stream and you have some really great photographs. Take them to the gallery and see what you're told. I didnt really look through much, but it looks like your strengths are definitely in your pictures of animals, and I like the sense of whimsy in some of your composition - and you definitely have lots of people commenting on flickr that they like your photos

I've found that photography (as with all art) is somewhat personal - I had a boyfriend once who flat out told me that photography wasn't art (we were in an art museum and he didn't want to look at the photographs, I didn't want to look at more smeary impressionist paintings)... Not the most tactful thing to say to someone who has photography as a hobby... But I'll often look through photographs with others, and what speaks to them or doesn't speak to them is completely different from what I like... And it may be that for some reason, some of your photos just don't speak to your husband while they will to a large portion of the population... and that having a BFA or working in design has sort of made him rigid in his opinions or how he looks at things... and freshness or a different approach is quite often really appealing in art...

With the ease of digital photography to anyone and everyone plus software to alter photos, I can see why there continues to be strong debate of where photography lies in value of "art" vs. "craft".

I had photograpahy as a hobby where I did use my Nikon SLR heavily which I later bought a bounce flash and add-on zoom-wide angle lens. Now I don't use it anymore since digital cameras. hence, I no longer identify photography as a hobby.

Are my photos with my digital cameras better? Well, geez I sure would have to spend more money on more sophisticated digital camera(s). sometimes I hate the robotic confines of a cheaper digital camera that doesn't allow me the same fine-tuning control on focus, depth of field, lighting and timing compared to SLR. I used to shoot more accurately and faster/on-target timing with an manual SLR vs. your $300-$500.00 digital camera (no add-on accessories).

I value photography as art, on these base criteria as an amateur untrained person with no art degree:

*photographic sharpness/crispness/acuity
*depth of range contrast
*unusual long-short perspectives
*colour richness and depth(not necessarily diversity of colour, which can be too much and a cheap way of gaining artistic license)
*inspiring, pleasing marriage of colour with visual emotion/passion/subject empathy
*metaphoric/poetic suggestion

and when photography is used in mixed media pieces:
*effective visual blending with other media/mediums/textures ...textured papers/tissues/textiles, paints (watercolour, acrylic, etc.)

Thanks for all your kind words. My husband did come out and apologize, stating that he was annoyed/upset about something else, but it really felt like cold comfort after everything he said earlier. The more I think about it, though, I can imagine he's a bit frustrated. In our relationship he's always seen himself as the artist and I'm the "responsible one" who's good at facts and figures. Now I have this invitation that I didn't really work for and probably don't deserve (my assessment, not his). I don't think he's insecure about his success as an artist - he's shown his work in this very gallery, has his work hanging in New York bars, has been invited to teach at his alma mater and is very successful in the design field. But I've been unemployed for over 6 months and I've spent that time learning photography while he's been working to pay the bills and hardly has time to even think about painting let alone do it. If I was him I might be a bit annoyed with me too. I'm not making excuses, just trying to understand where he might be coming from.

I still haven't decided for sure if I'm going to meet with the gallery owners. I think I probably will, but I know that I'm better at making decisions with a clear head when I've had a good night's sleep, and things always seem to be less of a big deal in the light of morning. I have a handful of shots selected to print tomorrow afternoon before I meet with them, so I'm prepared if I decide to go, but right now I think I need to but the evening behind me and get some sleep!

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Originally Posted by shootingstar

*I make this remarks because as a teenager my parents actually were trying to DISCOURAGE me from taking more art courses in high school and mucking around at home with paints. Imagine the occasional teen arguments where I cried and argued long and hard. You have to remember they wanted their children to excel in established well-paying professions, because we were poor. So yes, I stood up to them...by ignoring them and took over 6 art courses in high school. I didn't give a damn about rebelling in terms of drugs, booze, sex. Art was the most important thing to me at that tender age.

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I spent most of my childhood studying art - everything from oils to graphite to colored pencil. We were pretty poor too so I only got to choose one after-school activity at a time. I always picked art. But before the dawn of the internet most illustrators and commercial artists that I heard of/talked to were eeking by, some with secondary jobs to support them. I was good at all the typical college prep stuff so I made the call to give up art and concentrate on something that would make me money. It's taken me over 15 years to realize that might have been a mistake... Now I feel like I'm starting from scratch and re-learning how to see the world as an artist. It's a slow process for me, but I like to think it will all come back eventually, like riding a bike. :)

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Originally Posted by Flur

I was good at all the typical college prep stuff so I made the call to give up art and concentrate on something that would make me money. It's taken me over 15 years to realize that might have been a mistake... Now I feel like I'm starting from scratch and re-learning how to see the world as an artist. It's a slow process for me, but I like to think it will all come back eventually, like riding a bike. :)

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And photography is 1 medium to improve visual sensitivity to composition, shape, line and colour.

But for myself, shooting photos, is to maintain that awareness..not an end of itself. It is a gift to compose a photo image before you....quickly without endless minutes of super-duper prearrangement. When your reflexes and senses, are highly alert and in the moment. Applies for doing any art when one is in a passionate moment. This is beginning to sound abit obscene....but to me, it's almost like a trance..:D Sounds like some moments of cycling passion.

I just came from your flickr account, and I think they are fabulous! Do it. As someone else said, what is the worst that could happen? Good luck!

If you need help picking out some strong images from your portfolio put them up for critique on photo.net

Before I started selling nature photography that is what I did and it really helped me get a feel for composition.

I've looked at what you have online & your photography looks promising to me. Don't let some criticism deter you. Shoot what you love & love what you shoot. :D

Go to the gallery appointment.
You already feel your work is not quite ready yet for a show, so fine. Use the appt as a free way of getting some professional input so you know the kinds of things you might need to work on to get better. Use it also as a way of getting more experience in handling yourself in these 'art situations'.
It's a learning experience, and will help you. It's bound to be a way more pleasant and encouraging experience than the dinner you described! :cool:

I'm glad your husband apologized. I guess everyone has their bad days, right?

Go, and good luck! :)

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Originally Posted by Flur

I still haven't decided for sure if I'm going to meet with the gallery owners. I think I probably will,

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You should go. Good Luck and let us know how it goes! Remember, the worst case outcome is not that bad and will offer a learning opportunity.

You should go. His words went BEYOND simple criticism of the work and he made it personal. Therefore, it's not about your work at all. There's something else. If you don't go, you might regret it some day, but know you'll have to deal whatever the "issue" with him is later.

Karen

In my non-art-educated opinion, you have enough really good pictures on your flikr site for a show. Maybe not everything there is at that level, but some of those photos are gorgeous. So I cast my vote along with the others. Keep your appointment. Now that you're so set up to be disappointed, there's really nothing bad that can happen. You either get some constructive criticism and a "come back later when your work is even better", or you get a pleasant surprise. Win win.
That said, we would like to know which win it turns out to be. ;)
And btw, you should put some copy protection (virtual watermarks) on your photos on the web to keep people from downloading them as freebies, or (G_d forbid) passing them off as their own!

It's kind of funny, you and I are in the same boat (except my husband is incredibly supportive).
What is this "you don't deserve" an invitation from a gallery. Why not? do you not take pictures?

Today I am dropping off some paintings at a gallery to be adjudicated. A few times a year they invite new artists to bring in their work and if they like you, you can join their artist's cooperative.
I probably won't get in. Am I ready? I don't know. Is my bringing my stuff there going to hurt them in some way? If they invite you to bring your work, that means bring your work. I am sorry that your husband has been so arbitrary with you, i know how badly it would hurt if my husband had done the same thing. I'd still want to know how he thought I was going to embarrass him. I'd rake him over the coals for that one.

Be brave, take your stuff down there; you might learn something
good luck.

Please go.
The gallery owner's opinions and tastes are the unknown. She may or may not like your work, for her own reasons.
Wishing you the best

I checked out your photos and I love them. You definitely have something, there. You capture the spirit, particularly in your animal shots.

By the way, I started out as an Art major at Penn State. Spent my freshman year studying it and had several studio classes. Not that I'm an authority, but...;)

Do you think your husband was just having a bad day? Don't let his comments discourage you. Follow your dream---nothing ventured and all that!!

GO FOR IT!!! And good luck. Please let us know how it went. Amen to ...if they didn't want to see your photos, they wouldn't have asked you to come show them. You may find that they have some great suggestions, too.

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Originally Posted by mickchick

I checked out your photos and I love them.

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Me too! I particularly liked "Basilica on Plastic" and "Dogs Eye View" (you could make a series of ordinary things from the dog's perspective!)

I REALLY like your photo's and if they were on display I would stop and really look at them and consider buying one or two.

Did you keep the appointment? Inquiring minds want to know! ;)

I hope you did. The gallery owner can give you a much more dispassionate opinion than your husband did. Take that info and run with it. I love seeing what creative things people can do with photography.

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{shootingstar}I had photograpahy as a hobby where I did use my Nikon SLR heavily which I later bought a bounce flash and add-on zoom-wide angle lens. Now I don't use it anymore since digital cameras. hence, I no longer identify photography as a hobby.

Are my photos with my digital cameras better? Well, geez I sure would have to spend more money on more sophisticated digital camera(s). sometimes I hate the robotic confines of a cheaper digital camera that doesn't allow me the same fine-tuning control on focus, depth of field, lighting and timing compared to SLR. I used to shoot more accurately and faster/on-target timing with an manual SLR vs. your $300-$500.00 digital camera (no add-on accessories).

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I can so relate to this. Years ago I used to shoot area indy bands and a friend's cats from her cattery (she did cat shows). Recently I finally purchased a digital camera but I don't feel the same comfort level or control with it (yet) that I did with the SLR that I had used forever.

Flur- Heck yes GO!!

As for hubby! Hrampphhh!! He just spewed out all his personal insecurities like bad bile! I have a sneaky feeling he's really worried that you'll eclipse him in the art community.

I also dabble in art and photography and we are usually our own worst critic. This lady has invited you and obviously thinks there is something worth seeing. Go for it, if nothing else for the "constructive" input on not only what you could do better but also what you're doing very well. Your photos of the animal on Flikr reflect your best work in how you really see them. Your nature scapes are also quite nice and show a lot of potential.

Don't get discouraged. We're all rooting for you here and will love to watch you grow in somelthing you're passionate at.

In the meanwhile, hubby needs to take a class in communication and a chill pill too! :mad: That was just downright mean and arrogant and he owes you an apology!!

So I didn't go today, but that had more to do with not having anything printed to show - I was supposed to be printing my stuff today at class but we ran out of time. Tomorrow I will definitely be doing some printing and should be able to swing by the gallery before they close.

Thanks for all the support!

I'm not an artist, but I grew up around artists (my mother and stepfather) and I have a BA in Art History, so I know a little bit about these things.

I think my favorite photo on your Flickr account (from the few I've seen--I should be getting ready to go away for a week's business trip) is Kitchen Window. I love that photo because it contrasts interior and exterior and makes me wonder.

Please go to the gallery!

I like your pictures! I'm especially partial to the gray kitty. She looks a lot like Twiggy!

I have some experience with the gallery scene. I just want to say, don't put all your eggs in one basket. It may take sending out hundreds of portfolios before you find one place that will take (and sell) your work. You have to commit to trying. You have to get a thick skin. Part of being an artist is getting rejected, and understanding that rejection is just one person's (or jury's) opinion, and it may be based not on your work, but on what their market is, who their client is, and what they think they can sell. In the end, a rejection from a place that can't sell your work is better than an acceptance into a place that has it and doesn't sell, or, even worse, sells and doesn't pay you. Uh, yeah, that happens way too much.

Good Luck!

So I went to the gallery today after my class and they loved my work!! I'm so excited! I won't hear if I'm in a show until March, but they really seemed like they liked what I brought to show them. I'm thrilled!

Flur- after looking at your website, I am excited that they liked your work!! that is awesome. Congrats. I enjoyed looking at the diversity of different pics that you have taken. It is cool how you make everyday things seem extrodinary. Keep up the good work!

Red Rock

Fantastic!!! I'm glad to read this outcome.

Flur - I'm glad you went. And pox on Mr.Flur!

I cruise the galleries in the French Quarter on a regular basis and there's one thing I've learned - art in in the eyes of the beholder. So your photography may not be the "fit" for one gallery but will be for another. They are all in the business to make MONEY. Someone has to pay to keep the doors open and the lights on.

Good luck! Don't let the turkeys get you down. :p

Flur- way to go!! Glad you went to the gallery. Keep doing what you love to do. I agree with many of the posters. I love the pics of your pets, especially the beautiful grey kitty.

Way to go Flur. I'm glad you went - and good luck for the future! I didn't look at all your photos but I loved the ones I did see.

See...aren't you glad you went!

I can speak for myself that when I am having a horrible day I sometimes say things that could hurt...not that it is OK but it happens. I am glad your hubby apologized and that you took the leap to go to the gallery!

Keep us posted on your "show"

I too looked at your flickr and loved what I saw...in fact it has inspired me to get back behind the camera and shoot! I am going to do "a picture a day"!! I graduated from the Art Institute but came out not liking to be behind the camera because I could not take the constant criticism even though there was plenty of "I love it"'s and "beautiful"'s and "wish I could do that"'s...so I am not a professional photoshopper! I got a Canon G10 for Christmas and have not put it to too much use...but now I will! The G10 is a fun point-shoot that shoots raw and has settings like an SLR.....

Anyway, not only did you get good encouragement but you have inspired people!!!!

thanks

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Originally Posted by bouncybouncy

See...aren't you glad you went!

I can speak for myself that when I am having a horrible day I sometimes say things that could hurt...not that it is OK but it happens. I am glad your hubby apologized and that you took the leap to go to the gallery!

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Yeah, I think he just had a bad day to end a bad week. He really is a great guy and is usually so supportive. We talked quite a bit about what happened on Saturday, but I was still so mad at him... He was back to his usual self last night, offering to be my model for a really boring assignment for my portrait class, and telling his parents how great my prints came out.

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Originally Posted by bouncybouncy

I got a Canon G10 for Christmas and have not put it to too much use...but now I will! The G10 is a fun point-shoot that shoots raw and has settings like an SLR.....

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My husband has a G10 and loves it! And one of the guys in my printing class has a G9 - his prints were amazing. That little camera really can do great things. I'm glad to hear you're getting out and shooting with it!

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Originally Posted by Flur

Yeah, I think he just had a bad day to end a bad week. He really is a great guy and is usually so supportive. We talked quite a bit about what happened on Saturday, but I was still so mad at him... He was back to his usual self last night, offering to be my model for a really boring assignment for my portrait class, and telling his parents how great my prints came out.

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While there's a right way and wrong way to say it, keep in mind that your best advocates are the ones that tell you what you NEED to hear, not what you WANT to hear.;)

I'm very glad that it went well:D

I went to your Flickr site and I really like your shots. Very nice...Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Duck on Wheels

In my non-art-educated opinion, you have enough really good pictures on your flikr site for a show. Maybe not everything there is at that level, but some of those photos are gorgeous. So I cast my vote along with the others. Keep your appointment. Now that you're so set up to be disappointed, there's really nothing bad that can happen. You either get some constructive criticism and a "come back later when your work is even better", or you get a pleasant surprise. Win win.
That said, we would like to know which win it turns out to be. ;)
And btw, you should put some copy protection (virtual watermarks) on your photos on the web to keep people from downloading them as freebies, or (G_d forbid) passing them off as their own!

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DITTO THAT! :)
Please go to the gallery. The door is open, all you need to do for yourself is walk through!