Am I a Whiner?

I love my job, really I do. It's a dream come true. Unfortunately sometimes it makes me feel like crap. I work mostly with guys who fancy themselves cycling gawds. I think this scene from High Fidelity sums it up perfectly:

Louis: I don't have that record... I'll buy it for forty.
Rob: Sold.
Louis: Now why would you sell it to me and not to him?
Barry: Because you're not a geek, Louis.
Louis: You guys are snobs.
****: No, we're not.
Louis: Yeah, seriously, you're totally elitist. You feel like the unappreciated scholars, so you sh*t onto people who know less than you.
Rob, Barry, D*ck: No!
Louis: Which is everybody...
Rob, Barry, D*ck: Yeah...
Louis: That's so sad.

Anyway, they give me sh*t/make fun of me for a lot of stuff. Most of the time I know they don't mean anything, but after a while it sucks.

They have NO CLUE what the last year of my life has been like. Out of the rubble with little money the first thing I did was to buy a bike. That alone should mean something. Then I knowing jack I tore her apart praying I could put her back together. Worked every night to strip her down and repaint her. I took every lesson my mom taught me about craftsmanship and worked to create something that would make her proud. And I did.

I know I don't know everything and don't act any different. The problem is I feel stupid for asking questions because more often than not they answer them like I'm dumb.

I've been made fun of for:

-My Tour de Cure for diabetes jersey, a ride I did for my grandma who died of diabetes complications.

-My bike not being fancy. In fact once it was said I should "Just get a bike like Staci's." Her bike is a Dolce spec'd one level above the component set I have. The way they said it was like, "Why don't you just swallow what the marketing departments of all the big manufacturers are pitching and buy a WSD bike because you're too stupid to know what's right for you."

-My bike being heavy - Hey, so am I right now! And ya know, if I get a lightweight bike, all this training on tons of fun will just make me faster. She ain't named Candy for nothing!

-Not shopping exclusively at Whole Foods. Sorry, but if shopping at Wal-Mart means rib eye steaks rubbed with fresh garlic and ground pepper and a spring greens salad with feta cheese, walnuts, strawberries and raspberry vinaigrette instead of an Amy's nuke-a-meal then Wal-Mart it is!

-Being a hick/redneck/cowgirl. I am what I am. If knowing how to change my own oil, drive a tractor, pitch and stack tons of hay, and be self sufficient is crime, charge me. I love rodeo, my horse, vintage single action guns, fishing and camping. Bummer to anyone who can't live that life if you ask me!

-Liking hardtails. Sorry, I'd rather rely on my skills, not my bike. All the trails around here were built when people likely had rigid forks, if I want another sick hardtail, why is that their problem? I'm not asking them to pay for it.

-Wanting a BMX bike. Instead of being excited for me getting a new bike they just mock it. I think this might have to do with none of them really knowing a lot about BMX. If I get into it, it's something I know that they don't. Seriously, is it so hard to just be happy for someone? I grew up in the 80s, what do you expect?

-Liking Tyler. Okay he's no saint but he was the first pro cyclist I glomed onto when I got into riding. I think he's insanely gorgeous but I like my boys unique looking. I don't rag on their favorites. That's like dogging on someone's favorite football team. I like dark horses, save for my palomino, suck it!

Worst of all, this icky old guy that works at the bike shop below our office has decided he's into me. He came up and asked me to ride with him in front of the whole office. I guess he got it in his head that kindness meant I was interested. It was so embarrassing and now he uses any excuse to come upstairs. So everyone seems to think it's sooooo funny and they make jokes nonstop. Of course they're all in cozy relationships so this is infinitely amusing to them. They act like I can't do better. Puh-lease. I'm sure once Tyler meets me it will be a matter of months before our wedding. :D

Anyway, they're all going to the new velodrome tomorrow and I don't want to go. They keep insisting I go but I really don't feel comfortable. I know there are those girls who want people to beg them, that's not it. I don't feel the need to get mocked by them. Whether or not they say anything they can be so transparent. A few of them already know what they're doing or at least have ridden fixed. Seeing as how we have to bring out own pedals and they've even managed to make fun of my pedals, I'm not into it.

It sucks, because I really want to try it, but I'd rather be in a supportive environment. I don't need to pay $25 to be made fun of when they do it at the office for free. They've made me cry at the office several times I'm just crafty enough to hide in the bathroom, cry, and then wash my face with cold water. I don't wanna cry in public, bad for my image.

I thought I had an ally in Staci but now that she's decided to buy a fully she's their little pet project. Never mind that I was trying to buy one, whatever it was used and old so that sucked.

To a point I feel like I'm cutting off my nose to spite my face, but at the same time I think I'm protecting my sanity. I dunno, I think riding my horse sounds much better.

I realize this is ungodly whiny, but I just needed to vent soooo bad! I'm to the point where my new policy is to show up, do my job, do my job well, pick up a check, and go home. I'm not there to make friends.

aaaah, smurf, I feel for you. I felt like that a lot of the time when I first started riding a road bike, and training with a club. Now a year and a half later I see that some of it was the guys unwilling to accept that I had lots of biking experience despite never having seen a skinny tire up close before, and sometimes downright upset about the fact that I could outride them on the hills. Some of it was also my own insecurity, uncomfortable about being a newbie. I really hated that they couldn't see and appreciateall the stuff that I already could do, before yakking on about all the stuff they felt I should learn.

Some of these guys have changed their opinions, I've now ridden enough with them that I'm accepted as one of the guys. Some of them just are snobs, I've drawn back from them. And most of them I just ignore, to be honest.

It's tough if this is the only bike circle you have, but it will change as you feel more confident and as they see what you can do. You could look for other people to hang out with, but that won't change the ones you work with. And it could be that they accept you more than you think. Teasing people is one way of showing them they belong, but it hits hard if that person doesn't feel that she does belong.

Oh, and I like rigid hardtails too, and I think Tyler is gawjus. :D

Could be they like you OR they are intimidated by you. If they were ok with themselves, they wouldn't feel the need to do what they're doing.

I used to ride centuries on a hard tail mtn bike. It was my first "real" bike as a grown-up and I LOVED that bike. I had one guy say in this condescending tone "it must be SO hard to ride SUCH a heavy bike". I passed him on a hill and really had to bite my tongue to ask him how easily his light bike would be to push up the hill :p

Tyler's a good guy, at least he seems that way.

And High Fidelity is an awesome movie! The book is great too.

Enjoy that jersey! It's all about the meaning.

Individuality is a wonderful thing though some people are threatened by it. Be who you are and they will get tired of it. I betcha most of them admire you. I was always a bit different (I even changed a head gasket!) and it took a long time to realize I kind of enjoyed it when people thought I wasn't a typical girl or cyclist or anything, really.

Now...erm...isn't Tyler still married or have I not been paying attention?

Oh man. ((((((((smurf))))))) I wish I had some words of wisdom for you, but I don't, only sympathy. What a bunch of ***holes. Can you at least find another club to ride with? These guys would probably totally shun you then, but being ostracized sounds better than what they're putting you through now. It's obviously sexual harrassment, but if they're not being overtly sexual about it, there's probably nothing you can do. :mad::(

ok, to be a Devil's Advocate... I hang around a bunch of male roadies and I get teased and "insulted" mercilessly. They make fun of my gender, my height, my mismatched drive train, my Fred commuter, my race, the grease mark on my calf, you name it. Guess what? I don't mind it, and I give back as bad as I get. It's hard to take a bunch of sissypansy, concave-chested, bootie-wearing, ***-shaven primadonna fashionistas seriously and I'll tell them that right to their faces. You know what? They laugh.

Seriously, before you judge them too harshly, think that perhaps they use their childish antics as a bonding display. They invited you to join them at the veldrome, right? If they didn't like you or thought so little of you, they probably wouldn't have done that.

You've done quite a bit for yourself. Be proud of who you are!



P.S. If it bothers you during work hours, it might be prudent to remind management that certain things aren't kosher during work. While many people find such banter acceptable, from management's POV, no business should allow behaviors that may be construed as sexual harrassment. It's not professional.

I'm with bluetree on this. These are *young men*, right? You are a *young women*. Sometimes this is just how guys this age act. To me it sounds like they are treating you like one of them, a sign of acceptance/respect even if it doesn't always feel that way. Go to that velodrome and have a great time!

Hoping not to step on any toes here- I work with a bunch of middle American union hillbillies who think riding a bike at all is ridiculous. One guy's abdomen is bigger than mine when I was 9 and a half months pregnant.! So, I don't really care what they think!

As those boys get older they will become less foolish.
As you get older you will not be bothered so much by their immature comments- you won't care so much about what others might think of you, what you think about yourself will become more important. ;)
In the meantime however, listen to Bluetree's words of wisdom. :)

I think deep down they are intimidated by you. I work in a unit of guys and yeah always get picked on. Although I can dish it out when I need to. They tease the ones they like. If they completely ignored you then I'd worry. You are a threat to the machoness of the boys bike club. Since you've been invtited to the velo it sounds like your in, just don't take the crap. If someone says something you don't like, give it right back. Remind them when they get too cocky that they are not perfect. Have fun with them. It's cool to be independent and different, enjoy it.

Here is what I say to my daughter when she starts worrying what her mates are thinking of her:

Most of the time people are so worried about what everyone else is thinking that they really aren't spending a whole heck of a lot of time thinking about you.

Or, to put it bluntly: honey, the girls aren't looking at your butt, they're too worried about what everyone is thinking about their own!

It sounds like you get some ribbing.
Take it for what it is - ribbing.

I think, knowing guys, they probably think it's pretty cool that you tore your bike up yourself and put it back together, and that you're not buying in / selling out, and that you're trying to do something good for your body. That's admirable!

And also, knowing guys, they generally only rib the girls they feel the most comfortable with. It's a form of flirting. Take it as a compliment.

;)

I gotta concur a bit with Bluetree. A lot of my male-dominated groups of friends (cyclists, work dept, rock climbing) tease each other, because that's how they show affection. Like in 5th grade when the boys would hit the girls they liked, because they didn't know what else to do.

Like, I get the feeling they want you to go to the velodrome because they genuinely like you. I seriously doubt they REALLY care about your pedal status.

If there's a comment that's REALLY outta line, you should step up and let them know ("Hey, not cool, man...") ("Knock it off or I'll drop you on the next hill")

Otherwise, you have the right to dish it right back at them. When made fun of for being a hick, tell 'em to bug off or you'll hogtie them. Ask them why they spend so much on those nice light pedals and then eat a giant burrito. Tell them fantasy romance stories involving yourself and Taylor (they'll stop you before long). They're making fun of you for liking hardtails? Sheesh, remind them that FSR are for sissies*

-- gnat!

* Mind you, all I have is a FSR, so I can represent. In fact, a friend of mine who does single speed MTB calls me a sissy all the time. I call him a retro-nerd. It all balances out.

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Originally Posted by gnat23

Like in 5th grade when the boys would hit the girls they liked, because they didn't know what else to do...
....They're making fun of you for liking hardtails? Sheesh, remind them that FSR are for sissies....

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Too funny, I love it! :D

Sounds to me like they're jealous and insecure. They're probably used to helpless girls and don't know what to do with you. And there's that group-mentality going on, like they're bonding in making fun of you. If this is the situation (as opposed to good-natured ribbing) your best bet might be to divide and conquer. Is there one of the guys (has to be a guy, ideally the least insecure of the bunch) that you like more than the others? If so, maybe invite him to lunch or some other non-date-like activity, just the two of you. Odds are good if you can get one of them away from the group he'll be pretty cool to you, and once he sees you as a friend picking on you won't be so appealing.

I don't think you're a whiner. I think your feelings are valid, and I'm sorry you are feeling that way. :(
Here's my thoughts: give 'em H-E double hockey sticks right back and don't feel bad about being a little crass. I'll bet Staci is their pet project because she's a sissy pants and they can tell her what to buy, how to ride, what to wear and she'll go along. You, however, have your own opinions and ideas and do your own thing. I agree that they're probably intimidated. How many of them can ride a horse, change their own oil, repair their own car, load bales of hay? Probably not one. I think they give you a hard time because they know you could drop 'em in a second in most any task (it's hard to be masculine when you shave your legs ;)).

HI there Smurf, I too think that they are intimdated by you and are not sure how to act around you. From the sounds of it they are still quite young in many aspects. As you have already stated you have accomplished a lot and as for Whole Foods...Yes it is a nice store, but to me it is also Whole Paycheck. I go there occasionally for small items. If that is where they want to spend there time and money then good for them. For some I think it is a status symbol. You are in Boulder right?? Well, I better get off my soap box..back to the topic. No I don't think you are a whiner, they may be just testing you to see how far they can push you. Hang in ther and don't let them get you down.

Although it is easy to say 'who cares what others think about you', it is much harder to do it.

From personal experience, people who are weak get picked on more. I'm not saying that you are weak, but next time they make a joke on your expense, chime in! Be loud like them. Make fun of them. Just join in! That's just the way men are. If they make a comment about your bike, tell them you can kick Stacy's (that's her name right?) ***. Or any of their asses. They made fun of your jersey? Next time somebody walks in with something god-awful, make a sarcastic comment. Chances are, they don't know that your grandma suffered from diabetes. They make fun of your horse? Point to your legs and say you have no problem climbing hills because of the muscles you've developed riding your horse. Old man from the bike shop downstairs comes upstairs to check you out? Ask him where your coffee is. Doesn't have it? Then why is he up here? If you can't beat them, join them. You don't want to stick out like a sore thumb when the company culture encourages the type of behavior your colleagues exhibit.

The guys I ride with know not to mess with me because I can make lots of sarcastic comments about their shortcomings. When I do, the guy at the receiving end just shuts up and his buddies crack up. Boy dynamics. Same goes for my non-cycling guy friends.

One of the ways guys "compliment" each other is through insult and teasing. It is part of their culture. You don't hear many men walk up to each other and say things like "you look good today" or "I think your girlfriend is pretty" or "wow, you are a great racer" BUT what they might say is "you are one ugly sucker" or "how did you score on someone like that?" or "you could barely keep yourself upright in that race" followed by a smack on the back.

We are different genders and for the most part communicate differently.

Lighten up, they are trying to incorporate you into their world. That is a huge compliment. Have some fun with it, and then find one of us on the other side to speak in our world terms.

The best way I've found to deal with guys is just to give it right back to them. Have you ever seen the bumper sticker that says, "the more annoyed you get, the more fun it is for me?"

We have a couple of friends who's persona is basically "big jerk". They just want to see if they can get a rise out of people or not. I just dish it right back and have no problems.

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Originally Posted by smurfalicious

Anyway, they're all going to the new velodrome tomorrow and I don't want to go. They keep insisting I go but I really don't feel comfortable. I know there are those girls who want people to beg them, that's not it. I don't feel the need to get mocked by them. Whether or not they say anything they can be so transparent. A few of them already know what they're doing or at least have ridden fixed. Seeing as how we have to bring out own pedals and they've even managed to make fun of my pedals, I'm not into it.

It sucks, because I really want to try it, but I'd rather be in a supportive environment. I don't need to pay $25 to be made fun of when they do it at the office for free. They've made me cry at the office several times I'm just crafty enough to hide in the bathroom, cry, and then wash my face with cold water. I don't wanna cry in public, bad for my image.

I thought I had an ally in Staci but now that she's decided to buy a fully she's their little pet project. Never mind that I was trying to buy one, whatever it was used and old so that sucked.

To a point I feel like I'm cutting off my nose to spite my face, but at the same time I think I'm protecting my sanity. I dunno, I think riding my horse sounds much better.

I realize this is ungodly whiny, but I just needed to vent soooo bad! I'm to the point where my new policy is to show up, do my job, do my job well, pick up a check, and go home. I'm not there to make friends.

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Sorry, what is your job where you also hang out with these guys? Is it at a bike shop or ?

Guy culture is different ..even the nicest guys do gentle ribbing and semi-insulting of one another in a jokey way amongst themselves.

However ..it really sounds like several of these guys are abit immature. After all, it's usually 1-2 guys who lead the others along the way in a put-down fest of one another for guy-bonding. In all honesty, I'm not impressed 'cause I have worked for several male dominant workplaces where the guys were into sports, etc. and there were always guys that didn't engage in hardly any jokey insulting bonding rituals. Hence, alot of playful insulting was cut down / tempered....when I was around. It IS the workplace, after all.

Just turn around to put the joke on them...and hopefully with abit more class by not insulting them. No point, stooping to their level.

Just to give you an idea of a recent insult joke on me:
My former boss, an engineering manager saw me in sarong skirt one day at work. Yes, I do have a lovely one that I wrap..and wore it like a skirt. He said: "Now that looks...like my bedspread that I got in Bali...you know...."

At that point, I held up my hand and said with big, knowing smile: "Look, I really don't want to hear more about it"..and I started to back out of his office that he was sharing with another engineer, who grinned humorously at me.

My boss stopped finishing his sentence. He knew his joke couldn't continue...not with me around.

By then I had calmly left his shared office. Later he never made such similar jokes again to me.

By the way, my former boss looks like Fabio (but a very bright person). That male model with shoulder-lengh long hair. Hope you understand the context of all this..

Note: I can't diss a person completely who did bring up cycling but always to share info and experiences since he did do bike commuting at another workplace.

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Originally Posted by Fujichants

Although it is easy to say 'who cares what others think about you', it is much harder to do it.

From personal experience, people who are weak get picked on more. I'm not saying that you are weak, but next time they make a joke on your expense, chime in! Be loud like them. Make fun of them. Just join in! That's just the way men are. If they make a comment about your bike, tell them you can kick Stacy's (that's her name right?) ***. Or any of their asses. They made fun of your jersey? Next time somebody walks in with something god-awful, make a sarcastic comment. Chances are, they don't know that your grandma suffered from diabetes. They make fun of your horse? Point to your legs and say you have no problem climbing hills because of the muscles you've developed riding your horse. Old man from the bike shop downstairs comes upstairs to check you out? Ask him where your coffee is. Doesn't have it? Then why is he up here? If you can't beat them, join them. You don't want to stick out like a sore thumb when the company culture encourages the type of behavior your colleagues exhibit.

The guys I ride with know not to mess with me because I can make lots of sarcastic comments about their shortcomings. When I do, the guy at the receiving end just shuts up and his buddies crack up. Boy dynamics. Same goes for my non-cycling guy friends.

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Ha ha I love it! I did lay the smack down one day about the jersey. I think it went something like, "Yeah, that's right, make fun of the jersey I earned on a ride I did in honor of my grandma who died from diabetes complications." Silence. It was truly golden.

I've been around guy culture all my life having two brothers and all. I get the joking and such, and usually I'm all for it but sometimes they can be really mean. I'm still the FNG and I get really intimidated sometimes.

I have been owning a lot of the **** they mock me for lately. The other day I left to commute home and I pulled the Tour de Cure jersey out of my backpack and held it up for Shaine to see and said, "Just for you, Shaine, just for you," with a big smile. The other day they were talking about Bob Roll being in town and Will said if I wanted to hook up with a dirty 60 year old man, Bob was the ticket. I laughed and said I'd schedule him in right after Hodge.

We have a really open office space and there's a huge conference table in the middle of the room. There's tradition of riding each others bikes in a circle around the table when boredom kicks in. I figure once I get my BMX bike I'll leave it at the office claiming I got it just to ride around the table.

Anyway, I am dying to try out the coffee line, that is priceless. Freak scared the crap out of me today. I went and grabbed lunch and just as I closed the door at the bottom of the stairwell he yanks it open and says, "Don't even say hi." Uh, number one, didn't see you, number two I have a policy of do not engage and finally you scared the poo out of me and almost made me drop my delicious greasy pizza.

Three days a week I do have an ally in Nadia. She owns a tri specialty shop and used to work there a while back. They were all scared to death of her! I being who I am started giving her **** from day one. She LOVES me. They are all in awe. One day I said something particularly sassy to me and I guess they were all frantically emailing each back and forth along the lines of, "can you believe she just did that?"

Oh, and for the record, if you ever have the opportunity to hitch your wagon to a bike with one gear, no freewheel, no brakes, and go hurtling around corners banked at 45 degrees, I highly recommend it. More on that and pics later, but I will so be there again Friday. It's like Disneyland, Six Flags and bikes all in one.

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Originally Posted by Tri Girl

I'll bet Staci is their pet project because she's a sissy pants and they can tell her what to buy, how to ride, what to wear and she'll go along.

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Yeah, I think that has a lot to do with it. They've got her convinced she needs a WSD bike. I don't see it but okay. I never even thought about it that way. They don't care about me buying a new bike because they can't talk me out of it. I love the girl to bits, but she's pretty malleable.

Twas a skosh annoying when they all rooted for her the other day at the track. Had I not been thinking about my own mortality and lack of health insurance I'm pretty sure I could have lapped her. Hauling butt for short periods of time is muh specialty. So good at it I taught my horse how to do it too! :p

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he other day they were talking about Bob Roll being in town and Will said if I wanted to hook up with a dirty 60 year old man, Bob was the ticket. I laughed and said I'd schedule him in right after Hodge.

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This and the reference to the old guy who keeps coming up to talk to you, makes thing of borderline harassment. You might think about that.

Though I realize the tactic of 'slinging it right back' to the guys is intended to be helpful, I think in the long term it just encourages them to go further and further with their inappropriate remarks and behavior.
It's like little boys being as bad as they can be, forever searching for where the boundaries are, testing to find the limits of their parents' permissiveness.

In the beginning of this thread you expressed that you were uncomfortable with how the guys at work were picking on you and teasing you. Doing it back to them seems to me to merely encourage more of the same behavior from them, while encouraging them to go further and further. It becomes a competition of who can shock the most and push the envelope the furthest. I think they need to grow up a little.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but- this whole workplace dance situation you describe is starting to sound pretty immature. I realize this stuff is fairly common in workplaces. But is this the way YOU want to behave?- that's the real question. We can't control how others behave, we can only control our own behavior. Others then treat us in response to our behavior. You have the right to behave in a way that is true to yourself and comfortable if you so choose.

Out of the workplace, we have more ability to avoid people and behavior we don't enjoy. In the work environment you are stuck with dealing with the same people day after day. It's a rather artificial environment that can so easily become unpleasant and really effect our daily mental attitude and moods. I once quit a job where the husband/boss was subtly emotionally abusive towards his wife who also worked there. No one did a thing to me and I loved that job, but being around that demeaning atmosphere made me feel yucky all day. I told them both honestly why I was quitting, too. Not saying you should quit, just relating one example of how workplace environment/mood effects us in our daily lives.

In any case, enough rambling on my part...it's of course your decision how you want to handle yourself.
Maybe the give-the crap-right-back-to-them technique is working well for you at the moment and might truly be a good option, I don't really know your situation in detail. Just giving my own biased opinion. As I've gotten older, I've found that being up front about my boundaries has worked better for me in the long run in most all situations that beg for change.

Bleecker, I agree 100%.

There is no way I'd put up with that sort of behavior in the workplace, either as an employee or a manager. The management there needs to put an end to it asap. It's a hostile work environment, at a minimum, and from what the OP has described, sexual harassment seems acceptable there.

I don't care if the "guys" are immature and are supposedly being "playful." That sort of thing can be a not-so-subtle way for misogynists to put down women. It really ticks me off.

It's up to the OP to either accept the situation or do something about it.

Smurf I FEEL your pain. I too work in a LBS and constantly get teased to the point of I wonder if I have a target painted on my back. It really is like the other girls here are saying... they are still 10 years old. Remember in grade school when boys liked a girl they teased her relentlessly. It doesn't change, they just get taller and more annoying. They can't help it... they don't know any better. It's like when my cat pee's outside of the box sometimes... I realize she's not the smartest knife in the drawer. God love her but she isn't. She still doesn't understand peeing IN the box means you have to cover it up IN the box not OUT of the floor. Guys are much the same. They just don't understand. I don't have a dog but I hear that flipping them on the nose when they jump on you is how you teach them not to do that. Maybe this works with men? Hmmmm. But seriously.... keep your sense of humor about you. If they know they are bothering you they will most likely get worse. Guys bust each others chops with their buddies and they don't understand that women don't like that. I get harassed while riding with guys so frequently that I just smile and go on anymore. It's always nice to give them a smirk and drop their ***. I'm sorry but that is still so fun. Does that make me a man hater? Don't let them get under your skin it's easiest just to blow them off. ;)

While I have been known to "give it right back" to disgusting comments and actions from men, I have to agree with Bleeker. This is harassment and I would not put up with it for a minute. Not all guys are like this! The longer all of us let s*** like this go on, the longer they will keep doing it. Sorry, I don't ascribe to the humor them theory.
Now I know that Smurf really wanted this job and I also know that she is pretty young (well, compared to me). A firm "Stop right now... enough" might stop the comments.
And I have found it not to be a wise thing to socialize with people I work with. This doesn't mean you can't be friendly, but like I used to tell my students,"Friendly, not friends," when I would explain that they had to work with others who they weren't friends with or didn't otherwise like.

If I thought all my hard work raising three sons to respect women would go right out the window because "that's the way guys are", I'd be in despair.

"Guys" aren't "like that". My husband is not. My sons are not. I expect them to behave appropriately, no excuses. When they hurt someone's feelings, I expect them to stop, and then apologize. I don't care if they don't believe what they did was wrong. If the person they offended feels offended, I expect them to acknowledge that and apologize, or at least KNOCK IT OFF.

Tell them to KNOCK IT OFF, Smurf. They deserve it.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Irulan

This and the reference to the old guy who keeps coming up to talk to you, makes thing of borderline harassment. You might think about that.

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Oh, I should have prefaced this because out of context it sounds awful. I was mentioning that I wanted to go hear him talk. He was joking about what a perv Roll was and that I should watch out for him. That sentence was more of a, "But hey, if that's what you're into." I don't mind that stuff, really. Honestly the fact that we can say things like that without everyone getting butthurt is rather relaxing. I've worked in bars and restaurants all my life and even in the fancy ones there was a lot off color joking. It's the digs at me that bug me.

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Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl

Though I realize the tactic of 'slinging it right back' to the guys is intended to be helpful, I think in the long term it just encourages them to go further and further with their inappropriate remarks and behavior.
It's like little boys being as bad as they can be, forever searching for where the boundaries are, testing to find the limits of their parents' permissiveness.

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Hmmms, maybe I phrased that wrong. I've decided that rather than ignoring it, or getting butthurt I'm going to calmly turn it around. Like the jersey thing. I was still playful but I think Shaine got the message that he could make fun of it all day and I was still going to wear it. That his barbs had no impact on the pride I felt in that jersey. And the Hodge thing, I think if I joke about it, it becomes a whole lot less fun for them because it doesn't rile me up.

I still hold a lot of ancient customer service secrets in me after 4 years at T-Mobile. If I can diffuse livid customers and leave them smiling I can certainly tell them I think they're being jerks without saying it or stooping to their level.

Thanks for all the advice ladies. I think it's really helped to put it in perspective. And the other day a good friend suggested that maybe I am being a touch sensitive. She said the same thing when I said I wanted a BMX bike, "What the h*ll do you want that for?" Because I wanna be 10 again, duh!

I agree with Tuckerville that not all guys are jokey insulting. Just many are.

After all some guys once, upon a time when they were boys, were the butt of jokes constantly, or even bullied...and fortunately, some didn't want to exercise the same sort of horseplay when they became adult.

And the guys who don't..might not say much, hence, you don't notice them immediately.

Ohhh smurfy....I'm so sad for you! I wish you could come work in our shop. The boyz make fun of me, but I just tell them to shove it, and they go away.
In fact when they see me on this website they refer to it as "the men suck website".... :cool:
No men don't suck, just the dolts behind me!! :D

I think you need a zebra pro xl!!! :D

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Originally Posted by smurfalicious

Hmmms, maybe I phrased that wrong. I've decided that rather than ignoring it, or getting butthurt I'm going to calmly turn it around.

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"butthurt" :confused:

Is this a new word, what does it mean?? Sounds painful and unpleasant!

I just wanna say, I cannot think of any job I've ever had where anyone made fun of me, male or female. And I don't know any guys in any context who behave that way with me.

And anyone who makes fun of you for doing a charity ride is a tool.

I would not put up with it, and I would certainly not spend time with them outside of work.

They are terds. You are not. You will ultimately be successful, they will not. Don't hang around with them unless you are being paid. You are worthy of more sophisticated company. Think of them as small children. They are.