need your expert advise again

Ok - so I have a Bianchi 928 which I lloovvveeee but I have balance issues. No matter what I do I am not as confident on it as I am on my way old mountain bike. I am starting to think its the seating posture, that I am more confident siting more upright than laid over.

SO - my question is has anyone here modified their road handlebars to cyclocross or mt.bike bars? Or would a taller riser be a simpler solution? I don't want to give up my Bianchi but I don't want to hack it up either.

I know just ride ride ride and confidence will improve but that does not seem to work as well for me as it does for some.

Thanks for any thoughts.....

I have a road bike, a Rodriguez Adventure, that I ordered with flat bars. This model is a sporty touring bike. The shop tried to convince me to try drop bars, because of the versatility of riding positions. But I insisted on flat bars because of issues with asthma. My breathing is much better when I can sit upright. So they built my bike the way I wanted, and words cannot describe how wonderful the fit and function is for me.

If you do this conversion on your bike, if you don't know much about bike fitting, work with someone who does.

Cyclechik,
Can you be more specific as to what your "balance issues" and confidence problems are? Just what kind of problems are you having- a little more detail please.

Are the balance problems possibly a fit issue?

My balance issues are totally me and lack of confidence in my ability. The bike was professionally fitted for me by the owner of a very reputable bike shop and fits me perfectly. Its all on me.

I was just trying to consider alternatives that would aid in improving my balance. I do know that I just need to ride, and that eventually it will come, but you would think that after two years I would be eager to get out into the roads and off the bike paths, but I am just as hesitant as I was on day one. Bad at looking over my shoulder to see oncoming cars (I have lazy eye), and can't turn tight corners, etc.

Guess I am just a big "fraidycat" :o

Really, your balance issue may be more complex than that. BleeckerSt_Girl could really help if you tried to be more specific of what's unbalanced.

I was having a balance issue recently and was about to modify the whole bike until BleekerSt_Girl pointed out to me that my saddle was right above my petals. Something as minute as that! It made a world of difference. Soo... check you saddle, if its above your petals, slide it back!

Even the best of bike masters would have a hard time correcting every single aspect of your comfort.

it could also have to do with the height of your handlebar (did they take spacers out during the fitting?) and the length/angle of the stem. my bike got more squirrely when the fitter removed a couple spacers.

Re looking behind you, maybe you can install barend mirrors or a helmet mirror.

switching to straight handlebars will cost $$ because of the brake levers&shifters you will have to install.

My opinion is that you probably have the same amount control in the drops as on horizontal bars, once you get the hang of it. You won't have really good control in the top bar position, so this should only be used in very safe conditions. You will have better control on the brake hoods (but less force on the brakes), but the best is in the drops (and more power on the brakes). So for descending go into the drops.

Turning tight corners, well, noone is saying you have to do it fast, and maybe taking a clinic on road skills would help. it helped me loads.
You'll learn how to corner, how to ride the ideal line of a bend, where your foot and your weight goes, and where to look when cornering.

I think you guys need to listen to CycleChik. I understand exactly what she means.
I've been fitted and fitted. I have a great bike and I know exactly what to do when descending and cornering in terms of looking ahead, which leg to put down, etc. I now have short reach brifters and bars that are the right size. I can comfortably ride in the drops and squeeze those brakes. Soooooo....
Despite the fact I have been riding for 8 years, this is what happens:
I can barely extend my right hand to signal a turn, without feeling like I am going to tip over..
It is very difficult for me to make a right turn smoothly. I tend to go way outside, no matter what I say in my head or try to do.
I have to slow way down when I do the above.
I have never been able to descend at a speed more than 32 mph (on a straight road) and mostly when I approach a descent, I get an overpowering urge to grab the brakes and go as slowly as I can!
It took me 4 years to finally be able to handle a water bottle, and I can only drink it with my left hand. I absolutely cannot take my right hand off of the bar.
Now, if you rode with me, you might not notice a lot of these things. I overcompensate for most of them by being ultra careful. But, if I am riding with a group of people who ride at around the same speed as me, I am the only one who makes up time on the uphills and loses on the downhills. I just cannot "let it go" because when I have tried, I end up on the other side of the road!
I know I have really bad depth perception and my general visual motor skills suck. It's amazing that I ride as much as I do.
So, if she wants flat bars, if it will make her comfortable, maybe she should get them???

Sure if you want flat bars, get them - lots of people put flat bars on road frames!

CyclChyk, I think everyone else was just trying to address whether flat bars will actually help you. You didn't sound sure of that. Your OP wasn't clear as to exactly what kind of trouble you're having.

Also, sometimes knowing what to do isn't the same as executing it. A few years ago I completely lost all confidence in tight turns on my motorcycles. I used to be able to do them just fine. Now, I just can't. It's completely a mental block. I need to practice lots more, but whenever I try to practice it seems counterproductive because I get into such a panic state, don't seem like I'm making any progress, sometimes wind up dropping my bike. :eek: Has nothing to do with the bikes and everything to do with ME.

So. I think we do need more information from CC as to what specifically is giving her trouble. Since she says she's perfectly fine on her MTB, I don't think it's visuomotor issues.

The first question I'd ask is how long have you been riding the Bianchi? You said you had given it some time, but you didn't say how much time or how many miles. I do remember when I got my race bike, and even switching from a touring road bike to the tighter geometry, it felt incredibly twitchy and unstable. Unfortunately it was over 20 years ago and I don't remember how long it took me to adapt.

Then I'd second the recommendations for a good fit. That's true whether you keep the drop bars or make it a flattie. How long is your stem, and how does it compare to your MTB's stem? If the stem's too short, it can make steering very, very twitchy. Unfortunately, IF you've installed a very short stem because your top tube's too long for you, the frame may just not fit.

Third, take a bike skills course where you practice handling and tight turns in a controlled environment.

Fourth, work on core strength. If the bike's a good fit but you still find yourself putting too much weight on the bars, that could be a reason the bike wouldn't feel balanced.

I don't think anyone's telling CyclChyk NOT to put flat bars on her bike. Lots of people do it. Right now I'm entertaining thoughts of turning my old race frame into a commuter, and if it happens, flat bars are a possibility. We're just not sure that flat bars will address the trouble she's having.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crankin

I think you guys need to listen to CycleChik.
...
I've been fitted and fitted. I have a great bike and I know exactly what to do when descending and cornering in terms of looking ahead, which leg to put down, etc.
...
I know I have really bad depth perception and my general visual motor skills suck.
...
???

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hey - should we just tell her "you suck, live with it & ride a hybrid"? I don't think we should. And I don't want to be interpreted as saying this. at all. !!
So we're giving her the best advice we can pull out of a hat.

As with all such questions, CyclChick - pictures speak a 1000 words. Show us how you look on your bike?

No, I DO NOT think we should tell her "you suck!" Please, don't misinterpret me. I just think that most people don't understand this problem. No one tells me "you suck," and I haven't traded my road bike for a hybrid, either. I have a hybrid, but it's for other purposes... I do actually lead rides, but they are always well within my comfort zone.
I guess I sound like I'm complaining, but I have ridden lots of miles over 8-9 years, and it's not changing. I have improved, but not where i should be. I guess fear is a tremendous motivator in my case, but perceptual issues are just like other forms of learning disabilities; I can't imagine how it feels to have dyslexia and I don't imagine that others can imagine what I feel, either.
So, if someone wants to give me some ideas, shoot!

I don't know about CyclChyk, but Crankin, I think that if you have not taken a basic skills class, you should think about it. I have similar depth perception/gross motor issues, except really, most of them are in my head at this point ... I've always had them, I think of myself as a clumsy person who is bad at sports, and it's really hard to let go and be confident when you have all of that baggage.

I took a basic cycling skills course long after I bought my road bike, and while it also helped me to figure out what did not fit right about my bike, it improved my confidence enormously. That plus lots more miles was far more helpful than miles alone.

(Since you have depth perception problems, this analogy may help you: I am not a good parallel parker because my depth perception sucks. I overcompensate so I have never bumped another car while parking, but I used to really hate parallel parking and feel like it was beyond me. About ten years ago my mother gave me a bunch of pointers that felt like cheats, but once I had a framework, I got more confident about parallel parking, and now I'm actually better at it than my husband is. But I think it's the confidence that made that happen, not the cheats I got from my mom. They just gave me the confidence in the first place.)

I need the parallel parking cheats! :eek:

The main one is that corners have to match. If I had a visual memory I could explain better but mythought process is to get *'way* too close to the car beside me, pull up much further than I think I should (for most cars so my rear wheel lines up to the back of their car), then crank **all** the way over and back up until exactly the corner of the car that's in my mirror lines up with... some corner... I don't remember ;) ... and then straigthen the wheel out and back in.

I did that on a very narrow street at the U of S. Carolina the day I was leaving with a pickup truck piled to the sky so I coudln't see out the back at all. I was blocking traffic, of course, while I got in... and it worked! it worked! and the guy in back of me clapped as he rode by.

Just slapping straight bars on a road bike isn't going to change your posture. It would be similar to just riding on the tops of your drop bars. You'd need to change the rest of the front end (stem height and angle). That could affect handling (for the good or not). It may be impossible for you to get sufficiently upright and still reach the bars, because of the road bike geometry.

It would be helpful if you could describe what you have trouble doing and why you feel uneasy on the road bike versus the other. Is it just the more responsive feel of the road bike, or do you feel unstable turning, or can you physically not relax for some reason (e.g., support your own weight over your seat)? Something else?

Thanks for the advice; I have taken the Road 1 course. At this point it's mostly a confidence issue and fear. I think you've given Cyclechik good advice, too.
I'm one who generally avoids things that I know I'm not good at. Cycling has already pushed me far beyond a lot of my boundaries.
I guess that unless I get a cycling therapist, I have to work on this myself!

I think we all have fear boundaries- they just extend out to differing places for different people. Our fears are natural- they are there to protect us from going into harmful situations- whether rational or not.
I'm afraid of a lot of stuff. I handle it by never pushing myself way into my fear area, but rather doing very little pushes at a time to just nudge those boundaries further out. :)

Cyclechick-
the only thing I am 'channeling' from your somewhat nebulous balance problem description is this possibility:
Since you do well on your mtn bike, but have balance issues on your road bike- I am thinking that perhaps they put you on a bike that was maybe one size larger than ideal, and then 'fit' you to that bike by putting a short stem on. A short stem (like 5mm perhaps) will certainly produce wobbly balance issues. I had to find that out the hard way for myself. Is it wobbly on uphills in particular?- that was my symptom, and it was a bit scary when griding up a steep hill with traffic. I had to keep jerking my handlebars left and right in small increments constantly to stay upright when going slow speeds or uphill in particular. Constantly compensating my steering, as though I was a brand new rider. But it wasn't me- it was my short stem.
I know you said that an 'expert' fit you to your bike, BUT-
Often these experts are men who never have a problem with long top tube 'issues' like many women have, so they put the woman on the same bike they themselves would feel comfy on, based on her height and inseam. They forget that her arms might be shorter, so to address her sudden reach problem, they put a shorter stem on the bike. This can work fine if the frame is the right size and the new stem not too short, like 7mm. But if they were selling you a frame that was borderline too big (perhaps they had it in stock already and didn't think it was that vital to order a smaller one, figuring they could 'fit' you to it), then they'd have to use a too-short stem to make you comfortable with your reach- resulting in wobbly/twitchy steering. Is this something that sounds possible in your case?

I'm a firm believer that you can often fit a bike to you, but you should never be fit to a bike. ;) What I guess I really mean is that too often people get the wrong sized frame and are convinced they can make it fit by merely swapping parts.

Crankin, I think you are missing the point. Balance issue often are fit issues. Just because you have been professionally fit doesn't mean you were fit by someone that really understood the issue petite women face. Just because your body can comfortably reach the handlebars doesn't mean the bike will handle well. For example, if the stem and bars and are shortened rather than the top tube to improve reach, that can make the handling twitchy. I have ridden bikes that were so stable I could barely get them to turn (super high trail) as well as bikes with trails so small they were twitchy. I am the same person, yet depending on the the geometry of the bike, I too can have trouble taking my hands off the bars.

Do you have a poor sense of balance generally? Or is this a bike only problem??

CyclChyk, your post # is 666! :eek:

Trisk makes a really good point. While everyone has different body mechanics and coordination, the bike is a HUGE factor. And not just fit, either. From what I gather, the Bianchi 928 is a race bike. Words I've seen to describe it center on responsive, tight, quick...these words can also be translated into twitchy, wobbly and difficult to ride. While I'm not saying that you should buy a new bike (hardly!), because of the bike that you have, it might take more time than usual to get confidence on it. Don't sell yourself short, it might not be you!

A bike that is designed to be 'responsive' means that the slightest movement, and you are off your line. This may make learning to look behind you while on the road exceedingly difficult and frustrating. Does it mean that you can't? No, not at all. But it may take more time working on it and working on building balance muscles than just 'riding more' would do. Skills courses, core work, balance work (lifting weights while standing on wobble boards, etc) all contribute to building all the small muscles that often get neglected and that would be critical to getting confident on this bike.

I had a similiar experience. When I first started riding, I was convinced that my balance sucked because I was so uncoordinated on the bike. Funny thing was, I had excellent balance in other areas (gymnastics, ice skating, skiing, etc). I even did well and had much more confidence on my mountain bike. It wasn't until I got a different road bike that I realized that it wasn't me, it was that my bike wasn't the right one for me. I actually switched to a much more stable bike and while having the right fit made a huge difference, having confidence in my ability to control it, made biking fun again.

I do value your advice, Trisk and Lisa, especially, since you know me personally! But, my balance issues didn't appear when I bought my road bike. I've had 4 road bikes in 6 years and until I am done with school, I am done, despite the fact my current frame was "free." My first two road bikes were 47 cm wsd bikes with very short top tubes. Both had 650 wheels. I didn't feel any different then. And I still feel like my head is flying off and I am going to veer across the road when I descend on my Jamis, with the flat bar and a 44 cm frame. I think some of it is my intense dislike of not feeling in control, which is what I feel once I am going faster than 28-30 mph.
I didn't even learn to ride until I was 10 years old. I couldn't stay upright. And don't even ask me about learning to drive; I'm fine now, but I'm glad I wasn't on the road in another car, when I was first driving! And come to think of it, if I am on a high bridge or in the left lane of a freeway, I don't do too well, either.

Crankin, I honestly don't know what your personal issues are, but I can tell you that balance on a bike is critical, and the frame geometry can have a large impact on that.

Another example is how much of the riders weight is on the front vs rear of the bike (as Lisa pointed out). For example I ride a smaller framed bike than my height would predict, cuz I have long femurs so need the seat to be very far back (and need a very slack seat tube angle, <73) but then to feel balanced on the bike, I need a very short top tube (48-49cm!) which means a 24" front wheel to get a bike without TCO and with decent handling (i.e. I have a classic terry body).

My point is the original poster needs to consider all these things.

I realize geometry is exceedingly important; it's just every time I buy a new bike or make a component change, I really don't feel any different... well, except for the new short reach bars and brifters. There isn't anything unusual about my arms and legs in terms of length of femurs, etc. I am in proportion for my size.
The person who fit me is one of the best in the state. It's true that he may not know everything about fitting a petite sized woman, but there are lots of other women my size who are very happy with their purchases from him. I guess next time I could go custom for about the same money as I spent on my current bike. Seven is right down the road.
In the mean time, I will keep working on my core. Despite my complaining, I have improved my skills a lot.

If the current ride isn't working, it's a fine enough plan to try something, and if that doesn't work, you can try something else.

Crankin, your issues sound very similar to mine.
On my road bike I ride in the drops 99% of the time because I feel I have more control (it changes the geometry of body and bike)
I'm getting better, though.

When I got the upright FX I felt a whole lot more confident and comfortable.

From this experience I would have to say if CyclChyk wants to ride a bike with drop bars she's got the wrong bike :(

Fit and geometry.

The problem for shorter people, is that even if your body is well proportioned, most small framed bikes are not. Just look at any bike geometry chart. On the medium to large framed bikes, the STA is 73 and the top tube and seat tubes are roughly the same length. On the smaller framed bikes, the top tube is always proportionally longer than the seat tube, increasing the reach. This is further compounded by increasing the STA which while this appears to decrease reach, doesn't really, it just makes you need to push your saddle further back to get the same KOP position. To avoid TCO, they may also mess with the head tube angle and fork rake, all of which adversely effect handling. This is all in order to get a 700c or even 650c wheel in a space that is really too small for it to go. That is why I am such a fan of terry bikes with small (24") front wheels. When you don't have to worry about to fit a large wheel in, the frame can be designed with concerns about handling first. Even custom won't solve this problem unless your custom builder is very sensitive to this. I think you only get it if you have a body that has felt the impact of the problem.

I also want to add that one must also consider differences between female and male bodies. So while this is a problem for all shorter statured cyclists, women on average have longer legs, shorter torsos, and especially shorter arms than a male counterpart of the same height. So, you can have a perfectly normally proportioned female body, but not fit well into most of the stock frames that are available, even in the best of shops. Just cuz someone sells you the bike that is the best fit he has in stock or knows how to order, doesn't mean that it is the best fit you could get if you looked at frames built by women for women (or by a framebuilder that really gets this).

I think the reason the original poster feels better on her mountain bike/hybrid is that the reach is shorter w flat bars than w drop bars, so her idea of putting flat bars on her road bike may not be a bad one. HOWEVER, she will lose hand positions and may develop hand pain on a flat bar bike (this happened to me, I had flat bars on my terry classic and switched them out for drop bars). It wasn't until I started riding terry bikes that I could ride a drop bar bike at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crankin

I think some of it is my intense dislike of not feeling in control, which is what I feel once I am going faster than 28-30 mph.

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Does this happen AFTER you look at your computer and go, "OMG!"? Take it off for a while. OR if you're a mileage junkie, put it where you can't see it when you ride. There are a couple of hills where I put my Garmin on screen 2 which doesn't display mph. That enables me to concentrate on what I'm doing rather than going, OMG!".

Some of the time, yes, to answer your question, but I make myself NOT look at the computer mostly, when descending. I can pretty much very accurately tell you what speed I am going because I get "that feeling" without looking at the computer. I am better on straight descents (but what descents are straight?). Also, I am fine with turning left, but not right. For example, every time I leave my house, I have to go down the hill, which curves right. My husband routinely tucks in and is going 35-40. The only reason he slows down at times is because of the local x country ski team which uses the hill for practice on roller skis. Once I get to the top of the hill, which is right before the curve to the right, I just clam up. I actually squeeze the brakes so hard I stop in the middle of the road at times. For some reason, it's getting worse. I can't make myself get in the drops, even though I can reach them fine now and the braking action is much better. I tend to go down this hill at 15 to alleviate my fear. Yet, there are other places where I am fine, if it's not too curvy. Ha, you should have seen me on the 7 mile downhill in Austria. My husband was waiting like 15 minutes for me. I actually enjoyed the climbs more, despite the fact they were very tough.
I m sure you guys think I am nuts, but considering where I came from in terms of skills, I've come a long way. I even lead rides and just tell people I am a very cautious descender, feel free to pass me and wait at the bottom.
Trisk, I understand what you are saying about the geometry, but frankly, all that technical stuff gives me a headache. I do not feel competent enough to go into a shop and talk about it on more than a superficial level. i've read up on all of it, but I'll never be entering into a long discussion about it. I do know that I've never had toe overlap, though and I've always wondered what the deal was about it.
Sooo, in deference to CycleChik, I will end here. You gave her good advice. I'd be wary about the flat bar, too, because my hands do hurt when I ride my Jamis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triskeliongirl

The problem for shorter people, is that even if your body is well proportioned, most small framed bikes are not. Just look at any bike geometry chart. On the medium to large framed bikes, the STA is 73 and the top tube and seat tubes are roughly the same length. On the smaller framed bikes, the top tube is always proportionally longer than the seat tube, increasing the reach. This is further compounded by increasing the STA which while this appears to decrease reach, doesn't really, it just makes you need to push your saddle further back to get the same KOP position. To avoid TCO, they may also mess with the head tube angle and fork rake, all of which adversely effect handling. This is all in order to get a 700c or even 650c wheel in a space that is really too small for it to go. That is why I am such a fan of terry bikes with small (24") front wheels. When you don't have to worry about to fit a large wheel in, the frame can be designed with concerns about handling first. Even custom won't solve this problem unless your custom builder is very sensitive to this. I think you only get it if you have a body that has felt the impact of the problem.

I also want to add that one must also consider differences between female and male bodies. So while this is a problem for all shorter statured cyclists, women on average have longer legs, shorter torsos, and especially shorter arms than a male counterpart of the same height. So, you can have a perfectly normally proportioned female body, but not fit well into most of the stock frames that are available, even in the best of shops. Just cuz someone sells you the bike that is the best fit he has in stock or knows how to order, doesn't mean that it is the best fit you could get if you looked at frames built by women for women (or by a framebuilder that really gets this).

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Boy did you ever say a mouthful! You exactly described a problem that is very common for women yet seldom explained very well. And it's not just for shorter women either....
I'm 5'5" and this was exactly my problem when on my stock Rivendell (which I love, but it does not fit my women's proportions that well). My center of gravity was too far forward and nothing could fix it. I could never get my weight back off my hands enough to feel balanced- and it wasn't so much because of the reach but more because my seat was too far forward over the crank. The bike was designed with a size 60cm frame and a male rider in mind, and mine was a 54cm shrunken down model with a woman on it.
My problem was totally solved when Margo of Lunacycles.com built me a custom bike based on my measurements and my list of frustrations.
Even though the distance between where both wheels touch the ground is the same, and the reach is not that different, I feel so balanced now and no longer feel like I have to hold my weight up on my hands or else fall on my face. I no longer feel I can't get my saddle back far enough to feel right. My awful elbow pain is gone too. The comfort difference is incredible, it's a joy to ride. Plus, I have almost no toe overlap at all on my Luna, while I do have more on my Riv.
Triskellion, you described the problem so well! :) For me, it really was a weight balance and center-of-gravity issue more than a simple 'reach' issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GLC1968

Trisk makes a really good point. While everyone has different body mechanics and coordination, the bike is a HUGE factor. And not just fit, either. From what I gather, the Bianchi 928 is a race bike. Words I've seen to describe it center on responsive, tight, quick...these words can also be translated into twitchy, wobbly and difficult to ride. While I'm not saying that you should buy a new bike (hardly!), because of the bike that you have, it might take more time than usual to get confidence on it. Don't sell yourself short, it might not be you!

A bike that is designed to be 'responsive' means that the slightest movement, and you are off your line. This may make learning to look behind you while on the road exceedingly difficult and frustrating. Does it mean that you can't? No, not at all. But it may take more time working on it and working on building balance muscles than just 'riding more' would do. Skills courses, core work, balance work (lifting weights while standing on wobble boards, etc) all contribute to building all the small muscles that often get neglected and that would be critical to getting confident on this bike.

I had a similiar experience. When I first started riding, I was convinced that my balance sucked because I was so uncoordinated on the bike. Funny thing was, I had excellent balance in other areas (gymnastics, ice skating, skiing, etc). I even did well and had much more confidence on my mountain bike. It wasn't until I got a different road bike that I realized that it wasn't me, it was that my bike wasn't the right one for me. I actually switched to a much more stable bike and while having the right fit made a huge difference, having confidence in my ability to control it, made biking fun again.

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Very interesting read on all the views and opinions, I can relate to a lot of them.

when I decided to upgrade to an entry level road bike from a fat tired, leisure bike I tried the Specialized Dolce - it TERRIFIED ME :eek: it was quick and twitchy . . . I didn't feel stable or balanced on it at all.
I ended up buying a Specialized Sequoia. Solid and firm.

THEN we got to all the fit issues exactly how Bleeker St. girl described. I am a female who is very out of proportion, I can wear petite tops but need medium tall pants. I had to argue w/ my LBS guy to change out my stem to the shortest one available. Many problems solved.
I would go 43 mph down hills on it before reason would rule and I would start thinking about the worst case scenarios and slow down.

But it still took me over 1000 miles, a century and a week long tour on the Sequoia to feel truly comfortable.

But THEN I wanted an over all faster bike so I switched to the Specialize Ruby Expert last year. The bike fits me well but the learning curve has gone up.
I no longer go down hill at 43 mph but only at about 32 because the bike feels so light under me. I use a glasses mirror at all times because I don't trust myself to turn around and look. I can still reach down for water. I love the bike but I have less than 1000 miles on it and I just know it is going to take time for me to truly get comfortable with it. So for now I ride in my comfort zone and I don't draft too close.

You mentioned balance problems, just going from fat tire to skinny tire made a huge difference to me and took awhile to get used to.

My most stable postion is riding on the hoods. I go into the drops only when it is really windy out. I go on top when I want to stretch my back or ride w/ one hand.

I put aero bars on and although I love them they present whole new balance issues.

So to make a long story longer. IMHO if the bike fits properly , is set up properly, and is a fast road bike just by virtue of model, modify what you aren't comfortable w/ (helmet or handle bar mirrors instead of shoulder checking, camelback hydration instead of water bottle, etc) and ride w/i your comfort zone.

Putting a lot of miles on and riding w/ riders who push but not beyond your ability helps greatly.

moving from paths to streets - well that is a whole different ball game, I only ride in town long enough to get out of town. I have good skills, good balance, but I HATE riding in town where there are so many variables, kids, dogs on long, expandable leashes, drivers on cell phones, sun in their eyes . . .

Good luck and blessings that you can sort all the advice and find what works for you.

Good points from everyone!

We are all different and we all have our particular fortes and fears.

For myself, I am most comfortable on highways and in town on the streets. I have ridden once in a while on 'bike paths' and find them very scary! People walking, dogs, strollers and kids all every which way....I'll take the street traffic any day, thanks! :D

I know Crankin's problems have nothing to do with her getting better as she rides more....that gal has ridden a GAZILLION miles under all kinds of conditions!
She's little but she's tough. ;) She gives her fears the respect they deserve, yet she doesn't let them take over her life. And the fact that no one who rode with her would ever guess she has any fears or balance issues says a lot I think.
I have my own demons while riding my bike too- don't we all? And I guess if one has no demons or fears- then I'd be afraid of that in itself! :D ;)

I only know what I know the hard way, from having so much damn trouble finding a bike that fit, which for me was a custom bike friday. After it was stolen, I was prepared to go purchase a carbon fiber racing bike, and the more bikes I rode the more I realized what a big problem I had. So, I had to learn about bike geometry to solve the problem (granted my brain likes techie things too).

I analysed the geometries of the bikes that worked for me in the past, and those that didn't. I noticed the ones that worked all had slack STAs, short top tubes, small front wheels, and a medium amount of trail. So, I scoured the published geometries of all the bikes out there, and that was why I ended up going back to terry (I had a classic before buying my custom bike friday), this time for a titanium isis. I too am not that short, 5 ft 4.5", and I have this problem. I didn't even trust a custom frame builder to get it, what if I ordered a custom bike and hated it? I only ordered the terry cuz they gave me a 30 day return guarantee and I've never looked back. Then I loved it so much I picked up a steel isis on ebay for a song, and had a framebuilder install s/s couplers to solve my travel problem.

Maybe someday I'll let Margo build me a bike. I think its so great she is now an active member of TE. I think she gets it too, judging by how happy Lisa is with her bike, and it would be great if I could have 650 c wheels, but right now I am putting 2 kids through college, and I LOVE MY TERRY BIKES, even with their funny small front wheels! And to be honest, if I got another bike it would to go superlight and sleek, i.e. carbon, and I think Margo only works in steel. So, my terry isis bikes are probably it, but I love them so much I really don't get bike lust all that much anymore. Sure, I like how the modern bikes LOOK, but I know they won't work for my body.

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Originally Posted by Crankin

Trisk, I understand what you are saying about the geometry, but frankly, all that technical stuff gives me a headache. I do not feel competent enough to go into a shop and talk about it on more than a superficial level. i've read up on all of it, but I'll never be entering into a long discussion about it. I do know that I've never had toe overlap, though and I've always wondered what the deal was about it.

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The problem isn't toe overlap, the problem are the things they often do to prevent it. Bottom line, in simple non-techie terms, its a distinct possibility that you do not feel balanced on your bike because the frame is too long for you, so too much of your body weight is shifted too far back on the bike, making it difficult to control the front end.

Very interesting thread! I'm glad I read it...like Crankin and Zen, I have balance issues in general. Last year I had to go to PT for an ankle injury and the therapist told me I have about the worst balance of any patient he's ever treated :(

A lot of my problem is in my head though. I can't stand up to pedal and at this point, I know it's only because I'm scared as I can easily do it on the trainer. Same with stopping...I have developed quite a complex about it. So I try to either avoid stopping whenever possible, or I'll look for a very slight side slope to the right so my left foot will be closer to the ground when I stop. Luckily there aren't any intersections with stop lights around here...just stop signs, and I run them whenever possible :eek:

Just like Crankin, most people probably don't notice me compensating for these things. But I know my balance and coordination issues are not getting better and I don't think it has anything to do with my bike's fit. I'm still somewhat of a newbie with just two seasons under my belt, but I've ridden 6,000 miles in those two seasons so I should be doing better on the basics. I think some people (i.e. me) are just uncoordinated by nature and can't do much about it.

I have never had a professional fit and I didn't get to test ride a WSD Madone in my size before I bought my new bike. But I am extremely comfortable on the new bike and I'm not having any pain issues. It feels SO much better than my old bike, which was too small and cramped. I'm all for changing things out if it makes a difference. If road handlebars were not comfortable for me, I'd change them. Why not try different things and find what works best!

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Originally Posted by RolliePollie

I think some people (i.e. me) are just uncoordinated by nature and can't do much about it.

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Well some people are uncoordinated by nature, but balance comes from muscles and nerves, and it CAN be improved the same way strength and cardio fitness can be improved: by working on it in a focused way. I hope your PT gave you plenty of balance exercises and that you HAVE been able and continue to work on it!

This doesn't have a whole lot to do with this thread... but I always make sure to incorporate balance drills into my aerobics classes at least once a week. Start with your basic one-legged drills, with a handhold if necessary (google "senior fitness" or "fall prevention") and work up from there... I don't know if I'll ever be able to do squats standing on a stability ball as I've seen people do, but it certainly is a goal!

Balance is only beginning to be recognized in fitness culture. So often people neglect it until their lack of balance is actually life-threatening to them (which is why there's so much about it in senior fitness circles). I just read that Americans are the only people who sit down to put on our shoes! Once I read that I stopped doing it, for sure.

OK, I'm breaking my statement with another post. Yes, balance can be improved. If mine hadn't improved, I wouldn't be doing what I am doing now. But it's still pretty awful compared to most people. In the course of my PT for other things, she did give me balance things to do, and I also did them with a trainer a few years go. I continue to do them at home. Yoga has helped, too.
This just brings up lots of bad childhood memories. I can't play any sport that requires eye hand coordination and I was always picked last for teams. Then, when I was 15, I flunked the physical fitness test which was basically balance and eye hand stuff, they put me in "flab lab." Nice name, huh? Especially since I weighed about 90 pounds. But, this is where I discovered that I was good at endurance activities because they had us run and do calisthenics instead of stupid basketball shots. Of course, I aced the running "test" which got me out of the class and then promptly flunked the skills test again, that had put me in remedial gym to begin with! My former gym teachers are rolling in their graves, because I doubt they could ever think I was an aerobics instructor and a ride leader.
I can put my shoes on standing up, but it's not easy...
PS. Thanks for the kind words, Lisa. I am pretty tough now, mostly because of cycling!