choosing and getting into college

Help! My nephew, who is a junior in high school, just sent me an email asking for help in choosing and applying to colleges. Most of what I know on this topic I learned back in the 80s, so I don't know how things have changed since then and what has stayed the same.

I can start with basic questions he needs to think about, like what subjects interest him/what he might want to major in, as well as environment questions like small school vs. big, urban vs. middle o'nowhere, etc.

If anyone has any advice or experience in this process that is more recent than mine, I'd appreciate it. Also, he lives in NY but is interested in the DC/NoVa/Baltimore area, so I might wind up asking you mid-Atlantic ladies for input at some point.

Thanks!

His high school counseling office may be a tremendous resource for him. Our HS had information from colleges, scholarship information, etc. and a whole room of books and computers kids could use to help with college, career, funding, etc. School counselors can help too.

I would have him start with his high school and he could look online too. His state government (state board of ed., local school district) may also have resources too, through the internet. BEWARE of places offering to get funding for a fee and other "too good to be true" stuff.

Take a look at this with your nephew. It's a wonderful organization, and a wonderful take on the whole college experience.

http://www.ctcl.org/

If he doesn't know which general direction to go into, I would suggest completing general education courses at a local community college. Hopefully within those two years, he will have taken a liking to something, and it will be easier to choose a "real" college after that. It's so much cheaper, and often times the classes are smaller than what you'd find at a university. I'm dual enrolled at a local community college and Oregon State university, and the class size difference is astounding. A chem class at OSU has over 300 students, where as the class i'm taking at the jc only has 25. Much better!

If he's set on the NoVa/DC area make sure he knows almost all of the good schools are private. If he likes the scene from those areas though and wants to be in a city, VCU is a pretty good school and Richmond is a pretty fun city. Every single one of my friends from high school with the exception of one ended up there, whether by transfer or straight out of school. I almost went there, but ended up in Toronto instead.

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Originally Posted by applegum

If he's set on the NoVa/DC area make sure he knows almost all of the good schools are private. If he likes the scene from those areas though and wants to be in a city, VCU is a pretty good school and Richmond is a pretty fun city. Every single one of my friends from high school with the exception of one ended up there, whether by transfer or straight out of school. I almost went there, but ended up in Toronto instead.

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I didn't go there, but the University of Maryland is a very good school and it's public. It is about 8 miles from the center of DC (and very close to Proteus, the Best Bike Shop Around!) George Mason is also public and quite good. It's on the DC Metro line. James Madison is a further out, but a good school, too (and public). Of course, being an out-of-state student will mean that tuition is high in all public schools. I don't know much about VCU even though I live in Richmond, but it seems to be a vibrant and active place. It has a great art and design program, and city planning is also pretty good. So is social work, I hear, and I'm sure all the rest, too. Richmond is a neat city with lots to do. The University of Richmond is here, too. It's small and private, but very pretty.

+1 to U of MD (and the community college route).
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I second the "use the counseling office" post. My sons absolutely adored the gal who was the resources person for this stuff. She had shelves and shelves of college catalogs.

Here's my advice : if your kid can hack it, keep those grades WAY up and get on the honors track. My one on son had 27 credits waived as a result of his AP testing. That saves us more than a semester of tuition. Plus, good performance opens the door to merit awards.

WE pretty much let our kids choose where they wanted to go ( within reason)

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Originally Posted by greycoral

If he doesn't know which general direction to go into, I would suggest completing general education courses at a local community college. Hopefully within those two years, he will have taken a liking to something, and it will be easier to choose a "real" college after that. It's so much cheaper, and often times the classes are smaller than what you'd find at a university. I'm dual enrolled at a local community college and Oregon State university, and the class size difference is astounding. A chem class at OSU has over 300 students, where as the class i'm taking at the jc only has 25. Much better!

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class size depends on U choice also. My one son is at a small state engineering school that only has 3000 student and also has the small class experience.

I work at a college and I agree with all of the previous posters. By the time he is applying, if he doesn't yet know what he wants to major in, he should explore community college. He should also figure out what he can afford since it seems that student loans are becoming much more difficult to get. And, ultimately, I'm not convinced that the benefits of a private school balance out the additional costs.

The Princeton Review has some good online resources.

I graduated from high school in 2004, so my college experience was very recent...so I'll probably ramble a bit here (sorry :o)

I went to the University of Wisconsin; it was the perfect fit for me and I got a top-notch education and incredible research experience. My parents were worried at first that I was "selling myself short" or by not going to Princeton or Northwestern or something crazy like that (very few people in my family have gone to college so we were pretty clueless about the whole thing going in), but they came to love UW almost as much as I do.

Yes, it is often true that these bigger schools have some large classes (I had at least one that was 500+), but I also had classes (taught by full professors) that had 10 people in them. It's also not true that you never get to know your professors at big schools--99% of mine loved getting to know students. I even had professors ask me to babysit their kids. You just have to be willing to approach them to have a conversation. :)

I would add that he should try to visit several different schools, even ones that he thinks he might not like--he might be surprised what sort of things actually appeal to him in a school. I could tell very quickly from the time I rolled into town on my college visits (and again in the past couple of years, when I was deciding where to go to graduate school) whether or not a particular school was somewhere I could see myself. And I didn't always know that I liked the feel of a big state school--I had to visit a couple smaller schools and private schools before I figured that out for myself.

I believe that it doesn't matter so much how "good" a school is on paper--if you don't like the experience of living/studying/working there, it's not worth it. I'd be willing to say that's more important than going to a "good" school. I was accepted by graduate schools that were ranked "better" than the one that I chose (including the almighty Northwestern that my parents originally wanted me to go to for undergrad), but that doesn't mean that they were better for me.

That's about all I can think of right now. Best of luck to your nephew! I'd be happy to add my experiences about other things if he has more specific questions later on, but I fear this post is already far too long to add anything else. :p

Grew up in western PA and went to college in NYC in the early 90s . . . so, not so recent, but I have familiarity with the regional schools through friends & family . . .

One thing that helped me, and I imagine would still be true for a lot of kids, is visiting the campus and talking to current students can be very helpul. I did a summer road trip with my mother the summer after junior year to look at a bunch of colleges. And when I was accepted to my first choice school, which I had not yet visited, I was able to go to a prospective students weekend. I think it's really important to get a sense of campus life and whether you feel that it's a place where you would want to spend four years.

We had a few transfer students join our class during sophomore and junior years, so that can also be a possibility if someone doesn't get it right on the first try, but I often hear that tranfers have a different experience, i.e., they don't always feel they identify with a class since they went through a different orientation process. That may or may not be a factor to some people.

I'm not sure if I agree with going to a community college first . . . my experience with cc's in my area was that they had moved mostly into the area of vocational/technical/re-training education and don't necessarily prepare you for transition to a four-year college, as is a common practice on the west coast. Some four-year colleges might not accept transfer credits from a community college . . . you have to carefully research the policy at the college that you are interested in.

Another factor to look at is college (undergraduate only) vs. college within a university. Some people prefer a college with a focus on undergraduate education. I personally enjoyed the opportunity to interact with graduate students and to learn from them. Their advice was very valuable to me as I considered my options (work vs. more study) in my last year of college.

+1 on doing campus visits. My son just started college this fall. He visited several schools during his senior year and it was an eye-opener. The school he ended up choosing was the one where things just "clicked" when he visited. Of course the academic opportunities are important, but so is the atmosphere/environment. The students seemed happy to be there, seemed to be there for the right reasons (not a "party school"), the campus was just the right size and located in an area he really enjoyed.

Another thing that was a reality check for him was to create a spreadsheet comparing the costs of attending all the schools he was considering. He was offered several scholarships that initially were very appealing. But when he compared the total remaining costs of all his choices, it became very clear to him that even with those scholarships some of those schools would be quite a stretch financially.

Ah, he should be getting guidance from his counselor at school...
At my kid's high school, their counselor met with them at the beginning of their junior year and told them about the resources for searching colleges. We did a trip at the end of their junior year, when they had narrowed their choices, but my older son applied a couple of places even after he was done with the whole process; like in January of his senior year.
I went to 4 colleges; a small private school, a community college, an upper division state university, and a large state university. They all had their plusses and minuses. You get what you put in. In some parts of the country (like here in New England) it is not common to go to a community college and it is still frowned upon. I know, that is stupid, but it's the truth. My older son thought he wanted to go to a small "alternative" type school and applied to all schools like that. He ended up going to Hampshire College for a year and then transferred to U Mass Amherst, because he found out he really liked the diversity of a big campus.

Eh I didn't do it right, I did most of my planning and deciding on my own. My counselor just didn't click with me.

College Class of 2003 here, so pretty recent as well. I knew I had to go in state or get a scholarship due to my parent's ability to pay. I narrowed it down to four state schools and was blessed that Texas has an automatic admission for anyone graduating in the Top 10% of their class. Since I knew none would reject me I applied for 4 that I thought I might like. Two were smaller schools I didn't think I would like but I thought by chance I might get a partial academic scholarship or something. Then I went to tour the campuses and get a feel for what I wanted. I went the UT-Austin visit and hated it. UGLY tall buildings, noise of downtown and just something very not me about it. Then I saw Texas A&M- trees, quiet, lots of cool WWII era buildings, sprawling campus and a town that is college centric. I knew where I would be for four years after 2 hours.

We had large classes at A&M and it worked for me very well. On some classes where discussion is key the class only has about 20-40 people. I took an African American Literature class like this and it was one of my favorite classes. Some of the classes I took (Zoology, Management, Finance) had 300-500 people but I was okay with that. Some were large (Business Law at 150-200) but the professor really made the class smaller and knew a majority of us. Honestly every semester I had huge classes and small ones, it is a mix and it worked for me.

+1 on taking AP if he is a good enough student and has the desire. I tested out of 27 hours through AP and CLEP tests at the university, starting college 3 hours shy of being a sophomore. I also got to bypass the so-called "weed out classes" this way. I was able to graduate in 4 years but only one semester took over 13 hours. Many of my friends that wanted out in 4 years took 17 hours or summer school every summer. I took 9 hours summer school my first summer just so I didn't have to suffer through notoriously boring classes at A&M.

My advice- tour campuses, talk to the guidance counselor about strengthening his application, take college brouchures with a grain of salt (on paper UT seemed like my first choice). I got to do an immersion weekend at A&M which started Friday and it ended up being great.

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Originally Posted by tulip

I didn't go there, but the University of Maryland is a very good school and it's public. It is about 8 miles from the center of DC (and very close to Proteus, the Best Bike Shop Around!) George Mason is also public and quite good. It's on the DC Metro line. James Madison is a further out, but a good school, too (and public). Of course, being an out-of-state student will mean that tuition is high in all public schools. I don't know much about VCU even though I live in Richmond, but it seems to be a vibrant and active place. It has a great art and design program, and city planning is also pretty good. So is social work, I hear, and I'm sure all the rest, too. Richmond is a neat city with lots to do. The University of Richmond is here, too. It's small and private, but very pretty.

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Originally Posted by Zen

+1 to U of MD (and the community college route).
Fear the Turtle!
:D

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03 Alum here!:D Absolutely the best area to go to college, as there are so many oportunities for internships in any field. And don't worry too much about declaring a major going into college. Most people change it anyway, and the first year is spent taking core classes. Most likely, one of those classes will stoke a fire and help him find what he wants to do. As a junior, he should be doing SATs this year so that next fall all he has to worry about is sending applications in.

The next thing to think about is what kind of campus environment he'd be comfortable in. A few years ago two of my cousins were looking at schools. I took them down to UMD and Towson. Neither liked Towson, one like UMD, one hated it. For her, the campus and student body was WAY too large and she didn't like the urban environment. It's very important to be comfortable in the place you're going to call home the next 4 years. Even places that look perfect on paper may strike you differently once you're there, so visit, visit, visit!

The only thing I caution on no major is many of the universities it can be hard to transfer within the school. I know at A&M and UT if you don't start business or engineering you better have close to a 4.0 if you want to move over to those colleges. So general studies isn't always the best choice at some schools, he should look into whether that is an issue.

Oh and the community college thing is good if he may not be the best student as far as dedication. My husband is very intelligent but in high school he just took the regular classes, did enough to get by with B's, wasn't much of a studier. He did the CC thing and dropped about half the classes. He just took a bit of time to really get into the studying, test, note taking routine. He did pretty good in college in a hard major but probably would have flunked out of A&M if he had got in as a freshman.

I never met with a guidance counselor for college stuff. Of course, I was the third kid in about 5 years to go that route, so my mom and dad new what was up, sorta. But I did most of the research myself. I looked online, thought about what I wanted to do.

Even if he doesn't know what he wants to do, he may have an idea of what his strengths are, i.e. math/science, communication/english, or lib arts. That might help to determine colleges.

Personally a big factor for me was cost, but then if he is looking out of state I guess that is not an option. Definitely visit colleges, get a feel for whether you like a more urban or rural environment.

If there is a specific program he wants to get into, now is a good time to start building experience in the field through part time jobs and internships.

(ps. i wanted to go to U of M so bad! But I had to stay in state due to funds. I ended up at PSU and loved it. I'm glad, actually, I'm a much better Football fan than a basketball fan! :)

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ersonally a big factor for me was cost, but then if he is looking out of state I guess that is not an option. Definitely visit colleges, get a feel for whether you like a more urban or rural environment.

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Out of state can be relative. Here in the west, we have a program that is called e WUE (woo-ey) where if you have the right grades, you can get instate tuition at a WUE school in another state. I know that participating states are Washington, Idaho, Colorado, Arizona and Montana, Hawaii,Californiato name just some of them . Not all state schools participate: Colo School of Mines is the one Colo state school that is NOT on the list, where son #2 is attending. But most do. Son#1 is about to graduate from Northern AZ at Flagstaff, AZ, and we've been paying the same that we would have at UW here in Washington.

Is there not something like this in other parts of the country?

Here's the list, pretty extensive:
http://wue.wiche.edu/search_results.jsp?searchType=all

Nothing like that in Texas. Then again we are fortunate to have a very extensive state school program since we are a huge state. UT and A&M are fairly highly ranked in business and engineering, Texas Tech is also a good school. The smaller state schools Texas State, UNT, Sam Houston State and the satellite UT and A&M branches are good as well. Then we have tons of smaller state schools like Stephen F. Austin, Tarleton State, Sul Ross and others that are available.

Of course I had a lot of high school classmates go to Nebraska, Oklahoma, Louisiana on out of state tuition waivers, basically a partial scholarship. I am sure Texas does that but it is definitely a case by case thing and not a formal known program. Pretty cool what you have.

Yes, we love WUE, my son is benefitting from that program as well since going out-of-state was so important to him. It's 150% of in-state tuition. His school did have ACT/SAT test score criteria to be met to qualify.

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Originally Posted by BikeDutchess

Yes, we love WUE, my son is benefitting from that program as well since going out-of-state was so important to him. It's 150% of in-state tuition. His school did have ACT/SAT test score criteria to be met to qualify.

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Yes, certainly they don't hand WUE out. :) Son #2 picked the one school in CO that is NOT on the list, grr, but he got lots of scholarship money so if his college accoutn doesn't lose any more value, we should be ok.

I am a freshman at weber state university and I have loved my first semester so far. I think the most important things in picking a college is picking a place you want to live and picking a college with the right programs. I love WSU because it is a small university. my classes range in size from 8 to about 70 students so they are not very big at all. You just need to get an idea of what you might want to major in and pick a school that offers it. I am going to WSU for pre pharmacy. I want to go to graduate school in Oregon after i get my bachelors.

I graduated in 98. I definitely agree with those who have said to visit the schools he's considering. This made a huge difference to me. After visiting a number of schools I picked a school that wasn't my original pick and I'm positive I made the right decision. If I hadn't visited there's a good chance I would have been unhappy, or not as happy, somewhere else. I loved my school so much that I cried when I had to leave after graduation, and my college friends are still my best friends.

I absolutely do not come from money, but when I picked (with my parents) what school to attend we only ruled out schools that were not need-blind or that stated up front that they could not provide aid to all incoming students that needed it. The only school I looked at that fell into this group was the University of Notre Dame. I didn't know what I wanted to do so I applied to Liberal Arts colleges (even at the bigger Us that had multiple colleges). I applied to six schools in total up and down the eastern seaboard - four large schools and two small schools (one of which was really tiny), three were private and three were public, two were reach schools and two were safety schools, and I got in to four of the six.

In the end I chose to attend a school that was not as highly ranked as another school I applied to, and that was really tiny and less well-known than any of the other schools I applied to. I did it because when I visited I knew it was the right place. I got enough aid to go to any of the schools on my list and no, the student loan payback did not kill me. I should also mention that the school I chose did not give me as much aid as the others up front - my mom called and asked them why the didn't give me more aid and they rectified the situation. So don't rule out any schools because of $$, there are ways to make it work.

So why did I love my school so much? Well, I was po' so I couldn't afford a computer, but a computer was included in my tuition - a rather nice laptop loaded with software so I never needed to sit in a computer lab. It was a small school in a really expensive town so almost everyone lived on campus for all four years - it felt like a community, I'd even go so far to say that my college friends became my family. There was a grad school but it was really small, and it wasn't a research U, so the faculty were focused on my learning not their own projects. The class sizes were really small so a lot of stuff was taught as a seminar, opening the door for students to learn from each other, not just the professor. There were no frats so most parties were open, and again, at a really small school, everyone knew everyone else so you knew what you were getting into when you went out. And we partied like animals. Like. Animals. I don't think you can have that much fun if you don't feel like the people around you have your back. I don't think I would have had as much fun at a big school, or have gotten as good of an education, because of the individual attention. But... this is me. Every new frosh-to-be needs to find what is right for them, for how they learn, and for what they want out of the experience.

So my advice to you is, he should definitely do the "college tour" thing and see the schools he's considering. And no one should tell him he can't apply somewhere he wants to go, either because he doesn't know his major or because he doesn't have the $$. The straight-out-of-high-school college experience is just that - an experience. It needs to be what is right for him, not anyone else.

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Originally Posted by jocelynlf

I'm not sure if I agree with going to a community college first . . . my experience with cc's in my area was that they had moved mostly into the area of vocational/technical/re-training education and don't necessarily prepare you for transition to a four-year college, as is a common practice on the west coast. Some four-year colleges might not accept transfer credits from a community college . . . you have to carefully research the policy at the college that you are interested in.

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I guess it does depend on what you do. I am planning very carefully. Like I mentioned, my community college and Oregon State have a dual enrollment option, meaning that both schools work together and are very clear which classes will and will not transfer. A really large portion of classes taught will transfer with no problem, and even have an AAOT (associates, oregon transfer) degree, that basically takes care of your baccalaureate core. When I transfer next fall, there is no worry that stuff won't transfer and my lower division classes will be completed. I've been to the OSU campus and talked to my advisor in the department, and he has talked to me about which courses to take at a cc level, he actually recommended I take basic chemistry and biology classes AT a cc, I'll get more attention that way.

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Originally Posted by Madride

I want to go to graduate school in Oregon after i get my bachelors.

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Where abouts?

Your nephew may want to think about what career, and check out where the best college reputation is for that particular job and job offers. Be bold, call Corporate offices and places where he may find himself once he is finished with school. Ask corporate offices which school they commonly recruit from and how long they have, is it the only place they have recruited from? If it is the only, there may be a good reason for that. My husband is a gov't worker (job security) and graduated from ITT and that is where they found him. We have travelled the world because of his particular job, that was our choosing too of course. As I said- they found him!

Internships are another avenue to search. good luck to him!

Graduated undergrad in 2007 ;)

I went to a public high school and graduated 8th in my class of 280 people :) I was very academic in high school and was not prepared for the lifestyle change of college and thus applied to many academic-oriented schools.

I did most of my own research on schools to find something that I might like based on things I knew I wanted (e.g. most of staff having PhDs, relatively small school, strengths in scientific fields, etc). I applied to 5-8 colleges and universities and got into them all which didn't help me narrow down the choices :p

I visited the 3-4 schools in which I was most interested. After being on individually guided campus tours, I fell in love with a small private college in New York (I am from Michigan). Out-of-state tuition would have amounted to over $100,000 in loans once I graduated! :eek:

Oh yes, I also highly recommend sitting in on a class covering a topic in an area which the prospective students finds interesting.

Luckily, my parents talked me out of that school, if not for the financial details alone.

I ended up accepting my admittance to the school my parents forced me to apply to because it was in-state: the University of Michigan. I had a wonderful experience and never regretted it! I met so many great, funny, smart people like me! :D (Note: I did not relate to many of my high school chums, especially on an academic level). I also discovered many types of people which I did not care for (airheads, jerks, etc) but I could easily avoid them and seek out people whose company I greatly enjoyed. Plus, I was feeling smothered in high school, needing my independence and I didn't realize how nice it would be to attend school relatively close to home! :)--but my parents did ;)

I consider myself very independent and pursue goals on my own very well so U of M was a great environment for me because I could obtain everything I wanted out of my academics because the university had so many resources to offer!

I have since realized that while I may have been happy at the small, private college, I would have regretted the loan amount (especially with the economy slowing down now!) and I'm sure many of the people attending would have been from much wealthier families (old money and such; having their futures ensured by inheritance). I felt privileged because I was obtaining the education of which some of my out-of-state peers were paying what I did not want to pay for the small private college in New York :)

I noted that I enjoyed very much socializing with my peers of the same approximate socio-economic status but with much diversity in religion, race, culture and perspectives :) I liked that we could talk about student loans freely, without embarrassment or judgment.

Now I'm considering graduate school but have no idea where to begin my search... :p

You might be surprised that most of the people attending those pricey colleges are not from old money. Upper middle class maybe, middle class, probably. Around here, not many go to the state schools. It's not a good thing, but it's just the way it is. My son, who is 26 and went to U Mass, is the only one of his friends that doesn't have 50-100K of loans to pay back. Most of the kid's parents are helping them pay the loans.
I have mixed feelings about this. I wish my state put more investment in their public universities. But, I am going to a small private school for my second master's now and I definitely see the difference between what this school offers and my previous experience, both at the undergrad and graduate levels.
There's a college for everyone!

Tuition at my small private school averaged $25,000 per year (it's well over 30k for entering freshman now), but private schools KNOW not everyone can pay and the aid is not all loans. I got grant aid, and I got scholarship aid. When I graduated I only owed around $40,000 for all four years.

Ana, I'm from Michigan too. I think half my graduating class when to U-Mich. The other half went to Michigan State! I'm glad it worked out for you.

I should also add that the student loan companies will work with you on the loan repayment - you can always defer or change payment amounts. Student loans have an extremely high default rate. As long as you work with them they'll find a way to make it work for you, because paying a little or deferring for a year is better to them than if you default.

My niece had good grades in a public high school and was accepted to Smith College in Massachusetts and the University of Florida. She took Florida because she got a full academic scholarship and she was close to home - Tallahassee. Smith would have been a great place, but they couldn't afford the tab. I think you have to balance both the school and the cost to come up with what works for the student and the family. She graduated last year summa cumlaude with a marketing degree. My kids are only 10 and 13 and I graduated from Ole Miss in 1974, so I am not much help here. I will be in a world of shock in a few years when my kids get to that point! Bekki

I teach at a public, regional, comprehensive university, just so you know my biases.

When I ask, most of my students tell me that they came to my school because 1) They really liked the beautiful campus when they visited; 2) It has a good regional reputation; 3) People seemed friendly when they came on the tour.

The reputation thing is a bit vague, but okay. The beautiful campus and friendly folks definitely make things more comfortable.

What they don't think about: the difference between a liberal arts, tech, or ag school. Most don't know what the liberal arts are, though that's how we bill ourselves.

Most are worried about how they're going to make a living after college, and trying to figure out just the right major to get into the right career. That's understandable, but research shows that the major isn't as important to future employers as the skills the student develops. (You can find information about the liberal arts and such at the AAC&U website--Association of American Colleges and Universities) Most students change majors several times, and most adults change careers several times, so finding the perfect major to set up a career is less important than developing life/professional skills.

So that's something to look at, maybe?

One other thought: have you ever met a college grad who didn't pretty much think his/her experience was wonderful? I've taught at several very different colleges, and at every one, most students loved the experience they were having. The few who didn't transfered.

I guess I'd second the suggestions for college visits to help make his decision. (I'm also a big fan of public schools for all sorts of reasons.) Wish him luck with his decision!

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Originally Posted by Crankin

Around here, not many go to the state schools. It's not a good thing, but it's just the way it is.

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Hm, I hadn't thought about the government funding variation thing in other states (as well as culture, etc). I thought most states had state schools which people like to attend and regard well :) I guess I was lucky :)

It reminds me of the perceptions we often have of others (i.e. that they are like us) until we learn otherwise :p :)

I will have to keep my mind open about these different perspectives :) :D

Interesting to read of American concerns/comparisons on publicly funded state universities vs. 'privately' funded ..

Accredited universities in Canada do receive some funding, but student still has to find some money to pay for tuition, etc. Depending on the faculty/subject discipline, there are top-notch universities..which whoa, received some public funding.

Better to focus on depth/quality of instructors, curriculum, support resources on campus, etc.

University/college education is what the student is motivated to get out of their education while they are still in school, not just after graduation.

Reminds me of an elective course I took in my final undergraduate 4th year on South AFrican history. I only showed up for lectures 3 times during the whole 4 months. But I poured my energy and time on a major paper for topic I selected...which accounted for 85% of the mark... I aced the course because I became so interested in the research topic for paper itself. ( on anti-apartheid leader who died under torture in prison)

Yes, Ana, there is a huge difference in the perceptions people have of colleges, depending where you live. The reason why MA has this problem is that we are home to the "World's Greatest University" and near other Ivy League schools. Then there's the other 200 very selective private colleges. In a nutshell, the competition is fierce. The U Mass campuses are seen as OK, but sort of as the place to go to save money if you want to. The state colleges are pretty much seen as inferior in the towns around Boston. Well, my son went to U Mass Amherst after attending a private college about 5 miles away for a year; he got a great education, studied in Italy, is bilingual, and is still working at the job he got through his internship in college. I took many courses for salary advancement at one of the state colleges. It was OK...
When I lived in Florida, everyone went to one of the state schools and quite a few went to community college first. In Arizona it was the same, only there's not as many universities (I think the rivalry between ASU and U of A is silly. They are both good schools). But, in AZ, it seems like not many kids leave the state to go to school and a lot more of them live at home while attending.
Just my rambling thoughts.

+1 on the perceptions difference in the US. As Ana mentioned, Michigan has great state schools. When I was in high school, if you were smart and wanted to be a doctor or lawyer or some other professional, it was assumed you'd go to U of M. Why look anywhere else when you have a top 50 school in-state? If you didn't like U of M for some reason or wanted to go into agriculture you'd go to Michigan State, which was also a highly-respected school. The in-state small private schools were good, but they weren't as good as U of M, so if you chose to go to one people would ask you why you didn't want to go to U of M. Even with me going out-of-state people would ask me why, when I could have gone to U of M. It seemed silly to them.

But then I got out to NJ and people seemed to frown on Rutgers and other state schools as a last resort if you didn't get into an ivy or a baby ivy. But my friends that went to Rutgers are all really successful, and happy with their college experience.

Hmm, interesting about Rutgers. I never have heard that school disparaged (other than maybe location?), but I'm from PA. I know lots of people that went to state schools here, small and large, and were quite happy. Our PA state schools have a very good reputation as teaching colleges, and my brother went to a small state uni that is known for it's art dept for graphic design. I maybe know 1 or 2 people that went to private colleges, in fact both of them went to ivies.

I personally went to a state school, my perception (maybe because of my blue collar family upbringing) was that all kids went to state schools unless they were 'well off' or really really smart. I'm talking full scholarship smart.

I'm also curious what a 'baby ivy' is?

Amherst, Williams, Bates, Middlebury, Claremont, Tufts, Brandeis....

A lot more, too.