I've seen this come up in a few threads, so I have to ask... what's a "Fred"?
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I've seen this come up in a few threads, so I have to ask... what's a "Fred"?
Here you go. Boy, I'm doing well at procrastinating today.
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...highlight=fred
I looked it up the other week myself on Google--only to discover that it appears I'm a Fred! down to the gym shorts, T-Shirt, and white socks and regular old tennis shoes when riding (can't afford "real" cycle gear yet). Oh well, at least I'm enough of a cyclist to earn some kind of name :cool:
Is there a woman version of Fred--Fredericka maybe?
LOL! It seems the entire fixed gear movement is made up of Freds! DH wouldn't be caught dead in cycling clothes, with a mirror, lights and common sense protective gear. He'd find the whole Fred concept really funny, actually.
Thank you for the thread! My DH hangs out over at bikeforum.com and has begun to take himself very seriously (although he is afraid to ask questions for fear of being ridiculed!) I get the "fred" look from him pretty regularly now. While shopping for my road bike, I asked about the little brake handles I saw on the straight part of some drop handle bars--the lbs said, "we usually take those off when they come in." So I ask, "Do you have some you can put back on?" The (fred) look from lbs and DH. One bike shop had the clipless pedals with cheaters--flat on one side for shoes and clips on the other--"These are great pedals!" The lbs--"those are just for demo." So I ask, "Can I get some?" The (fred) look from lbs and DH.Quote:
Originally Posted by SadieKate
I also miss my bell--we used to call it the "bunny bell" because I used it to scare geese and bunnies off of the trail. Apparently, there was a fist fight at out local bike path over who had the right away--walkers or bikers--now my brother-in-law wants to buy a bell for his road bike!
I'm too vain to put my handlebar bag off the hybrid on my new street bike, because I might get the look! I went for a ride today w/o tubes and my pump because my NEW seat bag DH ordered isn't in yet--how FRED to move my old bag off my hybrid. My brother in law got a FLAT!
I'm glad this is all based in humor! I can laugh at myself--I don't care! I get the last laugh--my DH is starting to lean over my shoulder and read THIS forum--(so any FRED questions will be from him!)
I also carry a map!
And I've been getting chainring tattoos on my new bike because it doesn't have the chainring cover like my hybrid--can't wait to see DH's face when I ask him to switch that over :-)
Your LBS guy/gal needs to learn some manners!Quote:
Originally Posted by cunninghamair
After several years of mountain biking, I decided to buy a road bike. The lack of brakes on the flat part of the bar made me nervous, so I asked if I'd look silly if I had those brakes added on. The LBS guy said, "No, just tell everyone it's cyclocross-style." In this and many other ways, he completely supported me, saying that their only interest is in getting people onto bikes, and whatever it takes to make people comfortable so that they'll ride more, that's what the shop will do.
(Shout out to University Bicycles on Pearl Street!)
Interestingly, I don't think I will ever use those brakes now, but they made me feel more comfortable when I first got the bike and felt most vulnerable -- and that's really the point.
I would LOVE to have those brakes added on to my road bike - might yet. I ride some long hills and of course, what goes up, must come down. I would love the ability to have the optional brakes just to give my hands and arms a break (pun intended) on a 7 mile downhill.
I'm such a Fred (or Wilma or Fredlette - whatever). I keep the reflectors on my bike - all of them. And I've been known to ride road in mountain biking shorts (if I'm going to get off the bike and walk around town, sorry, lycra is not my best option).
I agree with the good LBS guy - whatever works.
Actually I am appalled at the prejudices I have encountered since starting to ride again. We have been in several LBS and ran into some of the snobbiest folks in town. I tell them I have a hybrid = they frown. They take one look at my overweight body and refuse to offer assistance. I have to ask for assistance. I tell them that I am training for the MS150 and they look at me in total disbelief. We found a wonderful LBS near our home and it is owned and operated by a single fella and he is awesome and not judgmental at all. We helped him deliver a trike to a senior citizen and saw firsthand his compassionate and caring manner in making sure that the old fella could not only ride his trike, but made sure it was adjusted properly for him and offered to come back out to his house to adjust it if needed. Every “newbie” question that I have asked him has been answered in a professional, courteous manner and he has been very supportive of our efforts to train for the MS150. I cannot stress enough the importance of being supportive of people no matter how they dress or outfit their bikes or even set high goals for themselves. The person is more important than whether they can afford an expensive bike/gear and to encourage them to ride should be the main goal. The elite groups I have encountered remind me of the snobs I went to high school with - I personally do not want to relive those miserable times. So I guess you could call me and my husband “Freds”. We cannot afford to get fancy cycling jerseys, so we ride with Walmart sports tees = same fabric, just not cut for cycling and with no rear pockets. I ordered a budget-priced pair of Cannondale cycling shorts from this forum. Meanwhile, I ride in capris with regular socks and New Balance running shoes. Having a mirror has been a vital part of our commuting - my DH has the end of bar variety and I have the one that attaches to your glasses. We are training with full panniers, but they too have been very helpful to stow our gear and carry our support water, etc. We were in a state park yesterday and thankful that we had panniers to carry rain ponchos and extra water (needed both) plus dry tshirts - got caught in a thunderstorm. I know that this is lengthy, but reading about labels got my dander up - blame my Scotch-Irish temper. Do not listen to anyone else’s labels - ride for the sheer joy of it, not for who has the latest and greatest equipment.
Wildhawk- Great post. Riding is for fun and I don't certainly don't want to go back to high school either. I would rather ride with a "fred" than an uppity person any day.
I hate to say I also feel there can be a lot of snobbery and prejudice in road cycling. I have a triple on my carbon bike and am looking at making the puppy gears even easier, so what? My helmet doesn't match my bike and sometimes I still tat myself with the chain ring? So what? I have also done multiple centuries, a couple of two day MS150s and some of the harder rides in the southwest. I may not look like it to some, so why should I judge?
Personally if I see an obvious newbie I give an audible "Howdy". And I wave to everyone, even if a lot of people look but won't wave back.
I have found the mountain bikers seem to be very embracing everyone, even those of us who feel like Freds. When I run into a male racer on the road all he does is blow by me without acknowledging me, maybe he is a jerk or maybe he is just in the zone but it still feels uppity. Last weekend I was mountain biking and this guy who was very good (and had a big racing team kit) gave me some encouragement on the trail. This isn't the first time it has happened out there either. Something about dirt seems to humble everyone a bit.
Thank you Aggie: I would love to ride with you too. Mountain bikers are very friendly - I used to live in Jackson, Wyoming and met quite a few. That is what encouraged me to get my mountain bike. Unfortunately it was the wrong size for me and I went with a hybrid. We have a 46 mile paved trail here called the Pinellas Trail. My DH and I used to make it a point to wave and say howdy to people we passed and see how many responses we got in return. Sadly, not that many people returned our smiles and howdies. We are seeing more and more riders with headphones/earbuds in and that may be why they do not hear our audibles.
It makes sense, doesn't it? How often do you see a mountain biker smile on the trail? A lot, right? Now how often do you see a roadie grinning for the sheer joy of being on a bike? Yeah, not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie_Ama
I don't know why road riding has to be so serious. I really think a lot of people are out there for the brag factor, not the fun. If you're working your butt off and not having any fun, I guess you won't have much energy left over to be friendly.
Why is wearing a camelbak on a road bike "Fred" again??? Sorry, function over fashion here!
Let's all just go out and have fun!
OK.... I see this topic come up from time to time.... Why do you expect this guy to acknowledge you... I don't think he is a jerk or uppity. He just doesn't have anything in common with you except that he is riding a bike. You don't expect every car driver to acknowledge you when you are driving. You don't wave and say hi to every other person who is walking on the sidewalk when you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie_Ama
I know we are a subset of humanity because we ride, but to tell the truth I don't feel that means I have an instant kinship with every other rider on the road. Maybe its because there are so many of us out here, but I don't necessarily acknowledge ever other rider I see. That's not to say that we shouldn't look out for one another - I always ask cyclists if they need any assistance if I see them having mechanical difficulties etc., but I don't feel the need to personally greet everyone.
I waved and smiled at him/her first and they made eye contact, the way I was raised you acknowledge that. My Mammaw taught me we are all more alike than we want to believe, I had relate to a millionare and the person who can barely afford the roof over their head. She is a wise 90 year old, a sage if you ask me. If some stranger says hello to me on the street, I say hello, even if they were a seven foot tall green martian (who I would have nothing in common with but the location).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eden
I honestly don't have anything against racers, my husband is one himself. I don't race, I don't understand training and I will never do it. Which means it will always be difficult for me to understand how returning a friendly wave or warning me when you are about to blow by me on a road is such an inconvenience. The roads I am talking about are not the ones with 50 cyclists out, it is the middle of nowhere county roads by me that I may be the only one they see for 30 minutes or the entire ride. I don't expect it every time but I am not sure the wave has ever been returned.
I don't hold a grudge about it and it doesn't keep me awake at night, I just find that road racers in my area tend to be less friendly than the mountain racers and I have been quite surprised by that. More surprised the mountain racers are so darn friendly! Maybe it is their recovery day since I ride one of the easier trails?
And I am generalizing and do not mean offense to the racers on this board. I thought I had something in common with the ones around me but I guess they do not look at this little Fredette the same type of person as themselves. That is a sad way to be IMO. We all can use the roads how we want legally, I won't hold it against the guy who thinks I am a dork and I guess if he knew I thought he was a bit uppity he wouldn't give a darn either.
I guess I'm of two minds here:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eden
I actually do feel a kinship with other cyclists based solely on the fact that we're both on bikes.
But...
I am not offended when my nod or wave isn't returned. If someone is clearly in the midst of a hard workout, I don't really expect them to break their concentration to say hello.
http://foolstown.com/sm/velo.gif :D
I just think that you are putting a lot of burden on this person that he may or may not deserve. He may think you are a dork, then again he may not at all and I think it rather unfair of you to assign negative thoughts to him just because of how he looks and the fact that he did not greet you.
More plays into this than a bicycle. Where you grew up east coast, west coast, south - large or small town will all influence the way you interact with others. I was not particularly raised to talk to strangers... I grew up and still live in a large city and people will think you are pretty strange and forward to greet everyone.... Call me uppity if you like, just remember that not everyone's social norms are the same as yours.
If I'm greeted while riding I will certainly try to return the greeting, but there are probably plenty of times that I'm sure someone thought uppity road rider, when I probably was just not paying any attention to them. I think its great to see people out on their bikes and I certainly prefer to see them riding than driving- no matter what they ride or why they ride. That will never make me outgoing, and I still don't feel the urge to wave at all of them...
I live in a country where pretending your fellow beings don't exist is the pinnacle of polite behaviour. You don't say hi to people on the street unless you're drunk, have ingested something illegal, or are slightly mad. So if somebody tried to say hi on the road to me while I was biking I'd probably be too busy wondering why and whether I should be worried about it to respond...
I'm being a bit facetious here, but not only. I would try to respond I guess, but I'd be mighty surprised and might just stare. But it sure wouldn't be because I thought the person looked like a Fred or a dork or whatever, when I pass people I'm usually deep inside my own brain and the only thing I'm thinking about is "which is the safest side to pass on?" I guess it is a training thing.
FWIW I'm having a blast, even though I'm not grinning. And sometimes I am :D
Funny that we've slid off onto this topic. I frequent a Missouri Katy Trail Forum that discusses this topic frequently. Two different threads develop: bikers are either unfriendly or overfriendly AND should you say hello to fellow bike riders.
My sister is the one that says hello to every single person at our local bike path. We usually do 5 laps or 19 miles--so that is a lot of hellos. When I first started riding with her, she said hello to a "serious" bike rider (full team uniform--in the drops, looking very intense) that I recognized from a local bike race--couldn't miss his blonde ponytail. After he breezed by without acknowledgement, I told her he was a racer and probably concentrating on a workout--quit saying "hello." She became more determined, and after 3 "hello's" he smiled and waved to the two silly girls on hybrids. He always waves to us now :-)
Another serious rider explained that he didn't mind waving, but his rides could quickly become an upper-body workout on busy trail days.
OK, I'll accept that.
Eden- I sure didn't mean for my comment to be taken as far as it was and you are right it is unfair of me to be judgmental while accusing the guy of being judgmental. Do I have my days where I feel overly sensitive to it? Most of them, that is me. I have I met the ugliest of the ugly riders who talk bad about slow riders even when they are present? Yup, my husband raced with that jerk in college. Have I met really, really nice racers? The majority of them I know are. Do I still wish the ones I wave/smile/say hi to would return the greeting back? Yup and that is me. I went to a college where you said "Howdy" to strangers to make them feel welcome on a large campus, that should say something about me and strangers. Are they jerks for not? Nope it is what it is.
And you are right, I am born and raised in the south. We are friendly to a fault. My grandparents (all three I was able be raised knowing) will/would talk to anyone that stood still. I grew up that way, I am not used to reserved people. They are as normal as a seven foot tall martian the way I was raised. I guess I expect people who live here to be like me but I forget many of the people here are not from here.
I say hi to fellow bikers on trail, and most respond in kind. Unfortunately, the issues I am running into are people who do not know proper trail etiquette - and the other day when my DH and I gave an audible “on your left” to pass a jogger she actually cussed at us. And for the past two weekends we have had a racer barrelling through a 10mph trail in our local park with earbuds on and he does not even bother giving an audible - just flies up on you quick and darts in and around walkers and other riders at a high rate of speed. He has frightened seniors walking and he nearly hit my bike in his haste last weekend. I guess he was “in his training zone” but that particular trail is a family trail with lots of small kids and seniors on it as well as bikers and rollerbladers. I say its o.k. to greet who you want and if they respond in kind, fine. If they ignore you, fine. But if they ride recklessly and almost run you off the trail, then that is another matter altogether. I was also raised in the south, so I am the friendly type. Just today we met a very nice fellow biker who told us about two more paved bike trails we did not know about. Our conversation was started with a “Hi, how are doing?” It takes all kinds to make up the world and everyone has their particular comfort zone when it comes to greeting others, but I have seldom seen someone not return at least a smile.
I have found a difference in how people greet me while I am riding, depending on which bike I am riding. I have an unusual brand road bike (Kuota) so most roadies notice me and wave, even if I have a triple and may not be worthy of such a nice bike. I admit I don't always wave to everyone, but I do always nod my head or do something to acknowledge a rider.
When I am on my Jamis Coda, it's different. The cars give me a wider berth and are generally more polite. About half of the roadies wave and half don't. Now, when I am on this bike, it looks like I am commuting, with a pannier, lights, a rack, although I am usually doing an errand, going to an appointment, or meeting a friend. And, I am going much slower. But, I do have clipless pedals, a nice helmet, and gloves that sort of show I am a serious rider. On the other hand, I am dressed differently. When I ride this bike, I dress in my "fun" cycling clothes: skorts, capris like the Scooters, board shorts, or mtb shorts. I might have wool on the top in the cold weather and mtb tops with no pockets in the warm weather. Perfectly acceptable riding attire, but not roadie stuff. I feel perfectly fine either way; there's different purposes for riding. I always acknowledge people on hybrids and call out when I pass them. Last week one woman thanked me profusely for doing so, as she was riding down a busy street with her child. So, yes, there are a lot of snobs in cycling, but not all. When my son raced in high school, he couldn't stand more than half of the kids on his team, as they were already acting like a$$holes. But there were always very kind adults who took the time to mentor him. After almost ten years they are all still really friendly to me when I see them around town.
Well interesting thread but I'm not going to get into the "to greet or not to greet" aspect of it since basically it's a personal choice IMHO and for myself some days I'm more friendlier than others.....
I just thought I would share this with you if you missed it on google because it's rather informative:
http://www.bicyclesource.com/bicycling_glossary#poser
Enjoy and just ride I rather suspect if any of yous needed help on the road/trail or path a fellow cyclist or two would stop and make sure you're okay at least that's what I choose to believe but then again I believe I will win the lottery SOON too.:rolleyes:
Ride on and keep the rubber side down!
Strange how the definition of "fred" is both people who have nice gear without skill and people who don't have nice gear, regardless of whether or not they have skill... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerchic
It seems as though they are trying to define an acceptable cyclist into a very narrow category.
I, too, dislike the elitist attitude of some cyclists. I used to think about why people don't wave back a lot but I have just decided that I am the kind of person who likes to wave to others, regardless of whether or not they wave back :) Sometimes I wonder if guys wave back (or don't) because I'm a woman. I like my bike and I like cycling so I'm probably just going to do what I always do: do what I love and not worry about what other people think :D
Well said Ana!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana
Well said! I'm honestly not trying to be snarky here - but this is what I intend to do too, cycle the way I love, and not worry that other people may think me elitist or unfriendly. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ana
Re Norwegians ignoring their fellow men: I passed a guy obviously fixing his bike yesterday morning, slowed down and called out "got everything you need?" Well, in norwegian, of course.
He stared at me like I was barking mad. ;) :D
I've skimmed these posts noting it's the same "are they uppity or not?" argument ... ah, perceptions!!!
Let me at least suggest that assuming that somebody is thinking uppity thoughts is every bit as judgmental as what the other party is being accused of.... and ... it seems to me it's built-in self-negativity... which shouldn't be blamed on others.
Now, my perception's tinged by dealing with a student or two today who have a pervasive habit of perceiving *everything* as a negative view of them, ... but even if it's true, then, the best revenge is *not* to let it bug you!
Norwegians are very friendly. :D I was there was during the winter Olympics. They were always rushing up to me asking "Are du ok?" as I lay there in the snow on my back waving my feet in the air like a turtle turned upside down. :p :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by lph
I kept slipping, sliding and then flipping over backwards in the snow even with the metal grippy things on my feet.
as far as greetings, I get a little wave or a nod from the other cyclists, but not usually anything verbal. The young guys riding the fast motorcycles(rice rockets, my husband calls them, which is probably politically incorrect)usually wave to me, and I'm not unfriendly at all, but it is a little weird because they are so fast they're not really there if I blink!
I'm so definitely a Fred. lol
As for saying hello, I usually do a small wave or say hello. I've had a few act like I wasn't even around but most always say hello back. But you know who I've noticed ALWAYS wave at me? The motorcycle guys! LOL
I don't always wave, nor do I always, in every situation, say something when passing (but I'm VERY conservative about passing on my bike, and will sit behind someone for a long time until the perfect passing conditions come along, maybe more than I should).
But I always, always, aways slow and ask someone if they are OK if it looks like they might be having a mechanical problem. I have fixed flats for strangers with my own tubes on more than one occasion, and if they ask if they can buy the tube, or whatever, I say no. I figure it's good karma. Sometime I might get caught without a tube. Amazing how many people who ride bikes can't fix flats though. It's really worth learning.
Lol, some of the posts on here made me laugh.
I've had times when people greeted me, but I heard it too late and already am too far away to say hi back. Or I mutter an inaudible "hi" because it catches me by surprise.
A lot of the racer guys look me in the eye when we pass each other from opposite directions or give a little nod with their head. There are some that don't do anything, but that's cool, I don't expect anybody to greet me.
And I love matching my clothes and wearing nice brands when cycling - that's just the way I am. Just like how I love wearing nice clothes in my every day life. I definitely don't look down on people, because it is all about being comfortable on the bike. Whatever works for you.
The one thing I can't get over though is cycling socks. I can't seem to find any nice ones that match what I am wearing without them being corny. Seriously...what's up with the images of little cupcakes and rainbows and ugly flowers on cycling socks?
I wear whatever I want. I have a nice flashy bike and don't ride super fast, and only own one jersey and no real cycling shorts, so I'm sure there are some people out there who think I'm some sort of a poser or fred, but I don't care. I learned at a young age that it's a waste of time worrying about what strangers think.
As far as the saying hi thing goes, I agree with those that have said it depends on culture. When I lived in NYC strangers really didn't say hi to each other. Especially women. The traditional greeting for two NY women is the "New York Once-over" where they each assess whether the other woman is wearing "status-appropriate" attire and accessories. Dialogue is only involved if both parties "pass" the once-over. It's really very unnerving to the uninitiated. I doubt I ever passed a once-over. LOL!
Here in Minneapolis people say hi, which can be just as unnerving! For cyclists, I've noticed that the more serious-looking riders, when riding in my neighborhood, almost never say hi. In fact, they almost never even say "Passing on your left" as they practically take off your left shoulder. When I was riding in North Minneapolis, almost every other cyclist said hi to me. The first few might have thought bad of me for not responding, but it was so unexpected I didn't really get a chance to respond. I did say hello to a few, and then when heading back to my neighborhood I said hi to a guy I was passing and I think I scared him! So even in one city the culture can vary.
IMHO it doesn't matter if you say hi or not, or if the other person responds or not. It doesn't matter what you dress like or what other people think about it. If someone who doesn't know you is going to judge you on something so little or superficial as whether you said hi or if you're wearing the right top in the 5 seconds they saw you, they're probably not worth the effort you would put in to be friends with them anyway.
My Norwegian mechanic is very friendly to me...I was 15% of his income last year! He smiles and waves at me everytime he drives past me on my bike rides (and is very careful not to hit me on my bike:p)Quote:
Originally Posted by Trek420
My favorite lbs guy is actually named "Fred"...no end to the irony in that one...
Their acknowledgement may be so subtle that you aren't catching it. Single fingers, down-lows (how one should always wave to motorcyclists), nods, eye contact.
Fujichants, I'm with you. I love my cycling wardrobe; it's another chance to buy clothes! Seriously, since I bought my hybrid, it is another chance for me to buy different types of cycling clothes. And of course Lisa (bad influence) has brought me over to the dark side with the wool stuff. I never even knew I already had a pair of Ibex pants for winter sports until I went on the wool thread.
I am probably a Fred of the nice bike/matched clothes/no skill variety, but hey, I figure 2-3K miles a year for the past 4 years buys me something. Along with those 20% grades I climbed at 5 mph.
My choice of appropriate cycling wear has evolved over the years.
Now, I just wear whatever. My preferences is toward high visibility shirts from my days in construction and a few pairs of favorite shorts/manpris.
My attitude has evolved too. I was admittedly elitist when I was younger, but now I get all excited when I see anyone riding a bike. Gear doesn't matter anymore.
I've always called the black chain ring marks on your leg a Fred!