I only clocked 3 miles yesterday. There was lead in my bike pants so I set up camp on the deck of Klondike Kate's restaurant.
Printable View
I only clocked 3 miles yesterday. There was lead in my bike pants so I set up camp on the deck of Klondike Kate's restaurant.
Well done! Very funny!
How lucky you were able to get every single one of those people's permission to post their pictures on the internet! Well done!
I was so concerned about getting legal music, I forgot to think of model releases.
I'll remove the video from TE.
Ummmm I did not see the video, so I don't know exactly how it fits in, but as a photographer this is how I understand the need for a model release. If the person is in a public place - say at the park or on the sidewalk and the images are used not used to sell a product then you do not need a model release to take and use the photos (or video). Now there have been some editorial uses of imagery that have come into question. There were some photos of random people in a park used in conjunction with a news article on some sort of communicable disease (I think it may have been herpes :eek:) that were not model released and understandably the people in them became upset. I think the newspaper had to print an apology... otherwise news story photos, photo essays, art photos, etc. are often not model released and it is not required that they be.Quote:
Originally Posted by pardes
(btw - I work in the medical industry and to be in accordance with HIPPA we always have a release for our photos - its actually written right into the consent for treatment - but of course anything that has to do with your medical records is covered by special rules)
In an age of Google street view capturing god knows what without anyone's permission, I highly doubt that a not for profit (well sequenced and footnoted) home video should be considered offensive, illegal or otherwise "not OK".
I'd be impressed if *anyone* could get a group of teenaged boys to cooperate in *anything*. Stubborn little cusses...
Of course, if I found out my child had allowed himself to be in a video I'd tan his hide. We've drilled into his head since he was a toddler that you don't let strangers take your picture.
Oh, Knot, you mean the way Raleighdon ALLOWED himself to be in a video!?? he didn't even know it was happening, nor did he know it was going to be published on youtube until someone else told him that it existed. And then his terrible wife shared it with the world. Poor Raleighdon didn't know whether to laugh or hide, but in the end, it amused him because despite the content of that youtube, people gave him positive feedback.
It's getting to be that everyone and everyone's pet is on Youtube, whether they know it, like it, or not. :confused::confused::confused:
Ralieghdon is an adult. He can defend himself. And he was clowning around for friends.
Consider the video from the point of view of the mother of a young teenage boy. Here's a video with 4 very identifiable teenage boys just hanging out together who don't know they are being watched, and it makes little giggles about their sexual orientation in text about their "girly handshakes" and the way they don't react when a pretty girl (also teenaged) walks by.
If my son gave his permission to be in that video, I'd tan his hide. If someone shot that video and made those comments without his permission, I'd be furious at the videographer. Not only because making gay cracks is just crude and unacceptable humor, but because doing it about juveniles is just WRONG. And if other boys saw that video, they could harass the subjects unmercifully.
ah, I missed the video, had no idea of the context, sorry. I agree, that could be very unfair.... i was just saying, Raleighdon didn't give permission and I imagine that is true of many of the videos that are spreading all over right now, so your son might be in a video with his knowledge or permission.
I didn't see the video but I've seen lots of references to this article, considering Kantor to be credible.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columni...era-laws_x.htm
Because something is legal doesn't make it right.
When my father's stepson bought my father's house for 1 dollar it was completely legal, as was the way he squandered my father's trust fund in less than two years (which was designed to last for the rest of my father's life) while my father had Alzheimers because he was after all the Executor, but it didn't make it right.
Hmm, and here my interpretation of that article is that beyond the letter of criminal law there are still risks and the need for commonsense.
Imagine our reaction if it were a man who posted video of teenaged girls and made comments about their sexuality.
I did not get references to homosexuality out of that video - and I'm sure that wasn't the intention. These were clearly all a bunch of "dudes" handing out and being "cool" - too "cool" for a real handshake. There was definitely some poking fun at priorities, etc. Maybe it's easier (and less tasteless) for cool dudes to blatantly ogle the hot car than the pretty girl. I'm frankly okay with that. It was all very lighthearted, and the Margaret Mead allusions were funny.
I'm hoping that this commotion over something intended to be completely innocent hasn't driven away a very creative and fun to read poster.
nah, I think Pardes is way bigger than that. She'll be back, at least I hope so.
I missed the video dammit. Color me disappointed on many levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by maillotpois
+ a zillion MP, but it wouldn't be the first time now, would it.
I did and frankly I was shocked and insulted. But I'm an adult and can deal with it. When I saw that the comments about their "girly" handshakes were about boys I felt incensed, angry and more important protective..Quote:
Originally Posted by maillotpois
As a fellow artist I realize sometimes one does not think these things through. It's like the corporate identity project I once did with the shirt design and the logo is right smack on the bQQbs. Oooopsie. :rolleyes:
So I hope she will return, and continue to post and create.
Geez, I sure missed something I suppose.
I just hope Pardes comes back to tell us more about her adventures. We've enjoyed them so much so far. I can't imagine that she would intentionally be offensive. Her other posts have always been so poetic and interesting- very artistic. We all make mistakes- it's how we become who we are.
Come back, Pardes.
Actually the video was an experiment in perception.
I removed it from TE when I realized I didn't have a model release from "Black Shirt." I have model releases in my camera bag but it started raining while I was filming and I forgot about them.
I will be going back to the barber shop to get a signed released, and now that the video is done, to show it to Black Shirt. Hopefully by then I'll know his first name and to confirm as I thought that he is not a teenager. I will also very much enjoy the conversation I will have with him about the video and life in general.
I also want to tell him how very charming I thought him to be and how much he reminded me of the young men of my youth.
Editorial comment added to a video is covered by the first amendment as long as it does not reveal private information about a subject. (unless of course they are public figures and then all bets are off.)
The video showed young men in one particular moment of their life to be more interested in a hot car than a preetty girl walking by. Stop the presses! Now there's some information we never knew.
The video also played on the preconceived notions of the viewpoint character, a 62 year old woman past her prime observing these things and trying to formulate concepts about the differences in the sexes. In her cases, she opted out for the standard patter of "boys will be boys and girls will be girls."
As the videographer, that was my aim... to demonstrate how easy it is to gloss over the reality of a situation, to dismiss something as merely amusing and to not examine the characters as individuals.
One of the few people who viewed the video made the same mistake and assumed it was gay-bashing, insulting to males and females, and downright offensive.
Others who didn't see the video agreed that it must be a terrible violation on several areas. Hearsay rules.
I'm fairly astonished by this. There seems to be a lot more energy in the claims about and against the video than are warranted by the video or the number of people who saw it.
It never occured to me in a million years that the sweet Black Shirt or his friend White Shirt were gay. Why would anyone assume they were? Because one of them was a hairdresser? Because, during one 3 minute time period in their life they weren't particularly interested in eyeing girls and were more interested in talking to one another and ooohhh and ahhhhing over a friend's new car? Now who is making broad sweeping assumptions without the facts being in evidence?
Whether or not the video should be considered editorial, creative, artistic, or just a bad piece of video is a personal matter between videographer and viewer.
I am extremely curious about the world and the people populating it. I am fascinated with untested views and opinions I've held in my life and wish to examine them for validity. I do this with writing, photography, personal observation, contemplation, and talking to everyone I meet.
I only have a few decades left to accomplish this. It's an grand aventure and experiment.
It's an experiment that will be full of failures as well as successes.
The video, the story behind the video, the visit to Black Shirt will be posted on my blog....unless of course, in the meantime soemthing more interesting captures my attention.
Pardes, in your blog you mention wanting to take a picture of a young woman, but not doing so because you thought it would be an invasion of her privacy.
Twice now you have posted pictures and stories of unsuspecting and unconsenting teenaged boys. Perhaps you would consider the privacy of the boy crying for help at the bus stop and of the boys standing out side the barbershop to be just as valuable in the future.
It isn't "gay-bashing", and no-one thought they were gay; it's privacy of these innocents that is the issue.
Let's drop this thread. It's not appropriate for TE. If anyone wishes to continue the discussion, send an email.
Pardes,Quote:
Originally Posted by KnottedYet
Your stories & photos are wonderful. I also think that if they are posted on TE, then they are an appropriate topic for respectful discussion. I agree with KnottedYet that we shouldn't post pictures of children/teens online without permission from both the subjects & their parents.
I thought your story about the young person at the bus stop captured a moment that was unexpected, tender, & moving, but that I was uncomfortable with his picture being posted with the story online. Unless, of course, he gave you his permission. (This wasn't clear to me from your post.) And, personally, I would feel the same way even if he was over 18. I'd feel the same way if it were me at that bus stop, and I'm decades past 18.
You show that you have the sensitivity to be aware of the possible desire for privacy in vulnerable moments, because you wrote that you looked away to give him some privacy. Why not, in cases like this, let your words tell the story? Or use your visual gifts to take a picture that doesn't compromise a person's privacy? Again, if he did give you permission, then all is good.
I think about this myself, because I often take photos when I ride. On recovery days, I ride on a multi-use trail where I see & talk to all sorts of people. Early on, I would sometimes take pictures of children that I saw or spoke to, but I decided that it wasn't something that I should do... unless it was from a distant & unidentifiable view point. That's my own sensibility & I've felt a little sad not to capture some delightful or comic encounters, but it's what seems right to me.
And with everyone else, I hope this conversation doesn't discourage you from further participation here on the TE forums.
Blueskies
I didn't see the video, and I fall on the side of...if you don't want be recorded doing something you're not proud of, don't do it in public where it can be openly recorded.
I hope you stick around, Pardes. And send me the video! I want to see it! :)
Karen
After working a few very long days, I am taking Friday and Monday off to play.
There are two major things on my vacation agenda list:
1. interview Blackshirt and film a video about the video.
2. SHOP FOR A MOUNTAIN BIKE!!!!!!!!
How convenient that these two things will take place within a block of one another AND across the street from Cold Stone Creamery.
Actually the whole concept of Cold Stone is a little silly to me. I want virgin chocolate ice cream. "NOOOOO please don't mess with it!!! Don't add anything. Don't flop it around on a granite slab. Just HAND IT OVER!"
pardes- what's this about a mountain bike??? (recent moutain bike convert)
vickie
Fastdogs.....I so sorely miss my mtb I lost in the house fire. It was a cheap clunker but it was so great on the millions of local dirt trails. I just don't have the same sense of security on the Trek Hybrid.
I want the flexibility that I don't have with the Trek Hybrid and thought, if I can find a lightweight mtb I might be able to use it as my bad/cold weather commuter too. You know, any excuse to buy another bike....
Of course the ideal would be to find a light mtb that also has an almost step-through aspect but there I'm probably dreaming. Besides, I am getting better at getting my complaining leg over the bike and where would be the challenge if things were too easy.
One more try to post this...
Hmmm. I'm not sure I understand your, for lack of a better word, preoccupation with these young men. To take a video of someone, obviously without their knowledge or consent, is disturbing. Then you made debasing comments and posted it on a public forum for anyone to see. (Don't fool yourself, we aren't the only ones here, ya know. There are more lurkers than registered users here at any given point of the day.) You have already exposed this young man and the others once and you have no idea what some in the great big "www" may have already done with the video. This is the one of the most irresponsible and reprehensible things I've ever seen on this forum. So what is being done about it? You are going back for seconds.
Believe me, I understand you aren't doing this out of any malice or negative intentions, but this is simply not the place. By your own words, it should be put to rest. And yet... you persist. I don't get it. I've held my tongue on a few of your posts that I found mildly degrading or intrusive about those you spoke of or quoted whole conversations about. Although I would consider you a good writer, you have a way of being lightly condescending to your human subjects without being obvious about it. I assumed this to just be your writing style and moved on. This one is where I have to draw the line, because you showed the person(s) in enough detail to be recognized and made some personal observations (hints) that were inappropriate and uncalled for. Thankfully, the others you've written about are still publicly unidentifiable.
I apologize to you and anyone else who see this as an attack. I feel you, Pardes, to be a nice, creative and highly intelligent person, although a bit misguided in the displaying of your artistic endeavors this time. This is a biking forum and although we do encourage open communication on "other" subjects regularly, in my opinion, your medium of choice (and the way you obtained it) in this situation simply doesn't belong here.
I encourage you to let those young people know what you have done and what you may have exposed them to without their knowledge. But, please don't post any more videos like that again without first getting the correct permission. At times we have all been guilty of forgetting that this isn't just our forum. In reality, it is owned by a woman (her company) who could be associated with what we put on here. As such, she (and all those who work for her) can be directly and negatively affected by what is posted and how it is perceived. She has been wonderful in the fact that she leaves us pretty well unchecked and uncensored. She trusts that we will have enough personal maturity to do it amongst ourselves.
Please lay this to rest as you promised you would, at least on here. And please, by all means, continue to be a presence here. TE is a unique entity on the web and is treasured by the many who frequent it, as are the people who contribute to this community. There aren't any I'd like to lose because the contributions of each and every one of us makes it the wonderful place it is.
Thank you and ride safe. Peace.
~X
But she did ! Her last posts have had nothing to do with the video!Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrayted
Why is this dead horse still being beaten? She removed that video (which I saw & thought was very funny, personally).
And the fact that you chose to make your comments here rather than in a private email does make this seem to me to be personal attack.
Thanks for the response Jobob. I do appreciate it. I had decided to stay quiet on this one because to speak up gives it more weight than it truly deserves. But, when I read that she is going back to take more video... :( I tried to get my thoughts across without offending and just kindly ask that it not be posted here. I guess I failed.
I respect everyone's opinions, not just the ones that agree with mine. If it's not bad in the first place, then why hide what we are talking about? This is, after all, a forum. It's not personal unless we make it that way or invoke hurt feelings in others. What makes you think that by airing the video, she didn't cause harm? These guys were just hanging out, chatting and minding their own business. What about the situation screamed the need to video that moment and make fun of them without their knowledge? As far as I can tell, they did nothing to provoke it. Yes, I agree it is a very bland video and as such should have only registered a 1.2 on the richter scale. It's not the content as much as it's the public showing of it without permission. Period.
They will probably laugh it off in the end when she tells them what she did, but what if they don't? We all use aliases on here for a reason and many won't post pics of their children or themselves for privacy. Yet it seems okay to expose others publicly for our own amusement. :confused: Sad.
Okay, I'm done. Just don't take my pic and post it without my permission. (just in case I have to expressly spell that one out for y'all.) Thanks.
~X
I'm going to the MS ride this weekend, people take pictures - I'll be in some of them (at least I was last year). There's no official photographer, and yet the pictures end up all over the web. I didn't sign a form granting them permission (and they're not "official" anyway).
Should we shut down the MS ride photography too?
(Not trying to be confrontational - just trying to point out that photos do get taken and posted all the time, and that for the most part it's legal to do so).
Disclaimer: I never saw the video. It was gone before I opened this thread - Just trying to make sure I understand what folks are arguing for here.:confused::confused::confused:
CA
I never saw the video, but I did see the picture of the boy at the bus stop. He was NOT identifiable.
Pardes said that she got a release from everyone except the one young man that she was going back to get a release from. So as far as I can tell she's following the law. Whether a given person likes what she's doing is somewhat irrelevant - art is subjective. Some people will like it, some won't.
If you find her posts objectionable, I suggest you don't read them. That's the great thing about message boards - if you don't want to read something you don't have to.
I, personally, will continue to read them as I really enjoy her stories, pics and videos.