Got my butt handed to me on a platter tonight!

Printable View

04-26-2005, 07:16 PM
KSH

Got my butt handed to me on a platter tonight!

OK... I have been getting a little stronger... so I decided to try to ride with a faster group. The "advertising" said "18 MPH on average".

Well, riding with the 12 MPH group is just not enough for me... I don't even break a sweat... AAAANNNDDDD... I did a good 18 MPH on my last ride... so I figured I was up for it.

At the start I did GOOD! When I would look down at my computer, I would be going 22 MPH to 28 MPH... down some gentle hills. I was hanging with the group.

Then the hills hit... and the wind... and I powered through most of it... and then the knee pain HIT!

My left knee had pain that would come and go... when it would come... it was PAINFUL... to the point that I seriously thought I would pull over and have a friend come take me back to my car... but when I found out were were about 6 miles away, I decided to not whimp out.

The last 10-12 miles were around 11-13 MPH.

I was just FORTUNATE enough to have 2 kind riders (Angela and Mo) who stuck with me... it had gotten dark... I had no clue how to get back... and I didn't have lights on me!

Lessons Learned:

I have learned that I am not as fast, or strong as I thought I was on the bike. It will be a very long time before I go out with a fast group like!

I am mashing the pedals = knees pain. I have no clue how to "spin". I hope I learn it someday before my knees give out.

There are some very kind and generous souls out there... who take care of new riders... and if you are one... just let the people around you KNOW that you are, and someone will be kind enough to have pity on your slow-*** soul.
04-26-2005, 07:24 PM
Veronica

Spinning

Make yourself get into a lower gear. Try to focus on bringing your RPMs up to 80. Do this when you're not riding with the fast group. :) Sounds like the rides with your regular group may be the perfect time to focus on technique. If you can afford it, you may want to get a cadence sensor.

V.
04-26-2005, 07:48 PM
KSH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Veronica

Make yourself get into a lower gear. Try to focus on bringing your RPMs up to 80. Do this when you're not riding with the fast group. :) Sounds like the rides with your regular group may be the perfect time to focus on technique. If you can afford it, you may want to get a cadence sensor.

V.

Yea... Mo kept asking me about my cadence... and he was looking for a sensor on my bike.

Sounds like I have yet another investment to make.

Dang this is adding UP!

I can barely afford the jerseys... on SALE... as it is (I have all of 2).
04-27-2005, 03:39 AM
Veronica

You don't HAVE to have a cadence sensor. They help, but you can sort of do it yourself with a watch and counting your revolutions.

Are you riding a double or triple chain ring?

V.
04-27-2005, 04:40 AM
Grog

Nobody REALLY BADLY needs a cadence sensor. You probably know how long one second is (and you sound like you have a cyclocomputer already). Just make sure you make more than one full turn of the pedals per second. That should do....

Keep spinning!
04-27-2005, 08:50 AM
wabisabi

Another thing I have done is to actually spend some time practicing my cadance against the minute hand of a clock to get a "feel" for what 80 or 90 actually feels like, and once you know that you can replicate it. I also have ridden behind people who I consider good riders and do what they do, especially good spinners.
04-27-2005, 12:01 PM
AutumnBreez

Low gear/high cadence

I have seen improvements in my own riding from taking the advice of Veronica and others in other threads just like this. I have a sensor, but I can tell you from watching and observing my actions and then looking to see the outcome on the monitor, if I am spinning so fast that it is hard to keep up with my feet and upper body is bouncing to keep up move it up a gear at a time, until I am spinning just fast enough to not bounce any more and rotation is not jerking, circle smooth. I look and the rpm is up close to 80.
This best way to describe it that I think.
04-27-2005, 12:25 PM
CorsairMac

I got it, I Got it

I Thought I knew what cadence was - but man was I wrong. I read in some Pro Road Tips this AM that you should try and push the handlebars with your knees on the upstroke! (ok...you can't Really do that but it's a visual thing). That and scrap mud off your shoes on the downstroke. When I rode today, I kept thinking - push knees into handlebars and scrap mud off shoes and WOWOWOWOW!!!!...I was spinning in the mid-upper 90s and maintaining an ave spd of 13+ mph in 15+mph headwinds!! can you say Smoking?? The hardest thing to overcome (for me) is: you don't have to have a higher gear to get more speed. I didn't even shift down when I went downhill and hit a cadence of 125 which carried me right up the other side without shifting up. It was an epiphany moment.

What does all this have to do with KSH? I have a cadence counter on the bike I rode today but what I learned was - I wanted to be in a gear that could just let me spin spin spin - no real resistance, no pushing in my legs, no pressure in any part of my body. As soon as I felt even the slightest bit of "push" in my legs, I dropped a gear. You feel like the little kids on the big wheels pedalling like crazy - but talk about a very relaxing ride with little or no leg strain. It also helped to keep my upper body relaxed when my legs weren't pushing so hard. If it feels like you're bouncing all over the seat and not getting anywhere, go up 1 gear and get that spin back. It isn't a "slow" spin - it's a no-resistance spin. (I'm probably not saying this well at all but you'll know it when you feel it and you'll think - oh man....That's what they're talking about!!!) Try a low gear first KSH and try just spinning until you feel like you're pedalling as fast as you can and not going anywhere, then go up 1 gear and try it again. Just keep doing that until you start to feel like you're legs are "pushing" the gears, then drop down 1 gear and get the spin back. Hope I explained that OK!
04-27-2005, 12:38 PM
bouncybouncy

Wow...that is a great way to explain it! Although I have only felt it on a MTB spinning circles on the paved path around the park I felt it as well...I can't wait to get my road bike to actually see the speed I can get on that!
I found that feeling following an experienced rider and watching his gears and trying to keep my cadance with his all while trying to draft (he knew I was following and guiding me along) Once I found it...WOW...I was doing 18mph on knobbies (only for 2 miles mind you) then managed to sprint for 1/2 mile at 21mph...What a feeling! That is a little training lap getting ready for some riding in NC...only thing I can do to prepare for hills. Being down here in FL our overpasses don't even count...flat is an understatment! :rolleyes:
04-27-2005, 12:41 PM
alison_in_oh

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsairMac

The hardest thing to overcome (for me) is: you don't have to have a higher gear to get more speed.

Abso-freakin'-lutely! :D I had this epiphany this spring, too, and WHOO what a rush to go faster with less effort! ;) Love it.
04-27-2005, 12:53 PM
Dogmama

Cadence Monitor

Say what you will, but I LUV my cadence monitor. I have my cyclometer on cadence constantly. I don't have to count - just look at the monitor. It's especially helpful going up hills - tells me when to shift! I like to run a cadence no lower than 85 and no higher than 100.
04-27-2005, 12:59 PM
shewhobikes

OK, this is all really interesting to me

I sense another breakthrough coming... ;) I have not spent much time yet addressing cadence, just trying to get the bike dialed in, then went clipless, then new handlebars/shifters. So...
Corsair, thanks for the "knee to handlebar, scrape mud off shoe" thought. I will try that.
And everybody, what I'm hearing is, get in the gear that allows you to "go in circles" not just pull up and push down. Is that it?
04-27-2005, 01:44 PM
CorsairMac

Quote:

Originally Posted by shewhobikes

I sense another breakthrough coming... ;) I have not spent much time yet addressing cadence, just trying to get the bike dialed in, then went clipless, then new handlebars/shifters. So...
Corsair, thanks for the "knee to handlebar, scrape mud off shoe" thought. I will try that.
And everybody, what I'm hearing is, get in the gear that allows you to "go in circles" not just pull up and push down. Is that it?

it's a no-resistance spin. I don't know how else to describe it, but as soon as I felt some push-pull in my legs I looked at my cadence counter and I had dropped into the lower-mid 70s. My first inclination was to push harder to get the cadence back up, but instead I dropped a gear and the push-pull feeling went away, my cadence went back up and my speed either stayed the same or went up! Hard to believe I know.

and yuppers Dogmama, I'm now following cadence instead of time.
04-27-2005, 01:50 PM
nuthatch

GREAT insight, Corsair! I've never had the whole thing explained quite that well. I've not been putting the two things together - I'm either concentrating on cadence or concentrating on pedal technique. You make it sound like "the sweet spot"!!! And, boy, can I use any ammo available against the evil headwinds - they are really wearing down my spirit and my legs these past few days.

Shew, it sounds like a cadence counter might be worth the investment!
04-27-2005, 02:12 PM
CorsairMac

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuthatch

GREAT insight, Corsair! I've never had the whole thing explained quite that well. I've not been putting the two things together - I'm either concentrating on cadence or concentrating on pedal technique. You make it sound like "the sweet spot"!!! And, boy, can I use any ammo available against the evil headwinds - they are really wearing down my spirit and my legs these past few days.

Shew, it sounds like a cadence counter might be worth the investment!

wait til you find it with a tailwind!......coz that 15+mph headwind became a tailwind when I turned to come back to work and I was riding at speeds over 22 mph without pushing. I just kept spinning and the speed just kept climbing. At one point I felt a slight bit of panic when I realized if I crashed at 22+ mph I could probably get hurt, so I just pedalled harder to see if I could hit 25!! (which I didn't - today!)
04-27-2005, 02:42 PM
nuthatch

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsairMac

At one point I felt a slight bit of panic when I realized if I crashed at 22+ mph I could probably get hurt, so I just pedalled harder to see if I could hit 25!! (which I didn't - today!)

You little daredevil, you! ;)
04-27-2005, 02:47 PM
spazzdog

Soooo, Corsair?

You do have your USCF license don't you?

And you are planning to do a little racing, yes?

spazz, just wondering :confused:
04-27-2005, 04:02 PM
MomOnBike

Quote:

At one point I felt a slight bit of panic when I realized if I crashed at 22+ mph I could probably get hurt, so I just pedalled harder to see if I could hit 25!!

Actually, that's when I try for 30. :rolleyes:

I've got a rather high guts/brains ratio.
04-27-2005, 04:55 PM
KSH

Yea, I get what you are talking about when you say "spinning " now.

Here is my issue with it... and it's something that someone mentioned... you feel like your legs are going NUTS but you are going NOWHERE (? spelling).

Unfortunately, I power through hills and all that.

Which has equally hurt knees.

So, yea... I am going to have to spin my legs like crazy... get nowhere fast... in the lowest gear I have.. and see how it goes!

Thanks for all the descriptions! I get it ... even if I don't want to!
04-27-2005, 05:48 PM
aka_kim

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSH

So, yea... I am going to have to spin my legs like crazy... get nowhere fast... in the lowest gear I have.. and see how it goes!

Well, not like crazy. I see newbies doing that a lot. Spin to the point where you feel some resistance, and you'll go somewhere, fast. You should not be bouncing in the saddle, and you shouldn't feel like your legs are spinning wildly.
04-27-2005, 06:10 PM
SadieKate

Quote:

Originally Posted by aka_kim

Well, not like crazy. I see newbies doing that a lot. Spin to the point where you feel some resistance, and you'll go somewhere, fast. You should not be bouncing in the saddle, and you shouldn't feel like your legs are spinning wildly.

A buddy and I rode behind another couple for about 5 miles yesterday while the somewhat zoftig young lady exhibited this spinning skill. The two of us had a fit of the giggles watching her. She was burning a ton of energy and going nowhere, not to mention she was going to need an entire tube of chamois butter to get back on the bike the next day. Ow! :eek:
04-27-2005, 06:15 PM
nuthatch

Quote:

Originally Posted by SadieKate

while the somewhat zoftig young lady exhibited this spinning skill.

I loved this word! Had to go look it up - it's great! I'm going to try to use it in a conversation tomorrow! Just trying to ward off dementia by improving my vocab...
04-27-2005, 06:46 PM
shewhobikes

woohooo!

Nuthatch and Corsair, let's meet in, um, Arkansas? Where's the bermuda triangle where NM, ILL and AL gurls can converge and practice the magic spin thing? :D

Really, this is very helpful. I have a few group ride tomorrow at 6 p.m. and weather should be loverly. Now that I've got the clipless pedals almost dialed in, I'm going to recall this thread and see if I can focus on spinning comfortably in whatever situation I meet. This will be interesting, because while I know the folks, I've never been this route before, so, YES, there's always something fun and new to learn! Will post what happens. Even if I fall over at a stop sign. Cheerio,
Shew
04-27-2005, 07:24 PM
KSH

Quote:

Even if I fall over at a stop sign. Cheerio,

Hee-hee... that reminds me... I ALMOST fell over when I stopped once... but FINALLY I was quick enough to get the left foot done just in the nick of time!

That happened after I dropped my water bottle in the road (Mo was too generous and insisted on going back to get it for me... even though I was willing!)... and before my chain came loose and I had to get Angela to put it back on for me!

Yea... the ride was "epic".
04-27-2005, 07:54 PM
Pedal Wench

Originally Posted by SadieKate
while the somewhat zoftig young lady exhibited this spinning skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuthatch

I loved this word! Had to go look it up - it's great! I'm going to try to use it in a conversation tomorrow! Just trying to ward off dementia by improving my vocab...

Be careful, though. About 20 years ago, my father called me zoftig, using the literal 'healthy, strong' definition, and I STILL haven't gotten over it. What's pretty funny is that my mother, who witnessed it long ago, also remembered it too, when someone used the word when we were visiting this past weekend. So, be careful how you use it!
04-27-2005, 08:14 PM
SadieKate

Our family never used it in any way but this:

Zoftig - "Full Bosomed; Sexy, Attractive." From the Yiddish "zaftiq," literally meaning "juicy," from the German "saftig."
04-28-2005, 02:29 AM
nuthatch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audio-A

So, be careful how you use it!

I'll talk about a movie star - Pamela Anderson or someone. That'll be safe!!! I like that German "juicy" connection, like "apfelsaft" or something. Thanks for the tip!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shew

Nuthatch and Corsair, let's meet in, um, Arkansas? Where's the bermuda triangle where NM, ILL and AL gurls can converge and practice the magic spin thing?

Shew, I'm going to have to start riding towards Arkansas pretty soon because I can't afford the pickin' gas to drive there! Maybe MomonBike will let me come along on her Minnesota to Nebraska trip and I can just veer over towards Arkansas at the appropriate time... :D
04-28-2005, 06:23 AM
Biking Chick

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuthatch

Shew, I'm going to have to start riding towards Arkansas pretty soon because I can't afford the pickin' gas to drive there! Maybe MomonBike will let me come along on her Minnesota to Nebraska trip and I can just veer over towards Arkansas at the appropriate time... :D

With the winds we've been having you can practice spinning with a heck of a tail wind and make it all the way to Arkansas ... just make sure you have SAG for a ride back!

While the sun is finally out from behind the clouds I went out today dressed in amfib tights, under armour top, Gill jacket, long fingered gloves ... ah yes - the change of seasons here in the upper midwest :rolleyes:

But back to biking ... I'm looking forward to the knees to the handlebars scraping mud off your shoe technique; if I can visualize it I'm more apt to be able to make it a habit/part of my routine. Case in point - when I pedal I subconsciously think 'circles'. I read somewhere that one of the biggest mistakes new cyclists make is to pedal in a 'square' - forward, down, back, up, forward. Hard on the knees and very inefficient. By thinking in circles you create a smooth pattern rather than the jerky square one.

A couple of weeks ago I had Iris (mountain bike) out for the first time this year and rode our nature trail two days in a row. Within 10 minutes of being on my road bike on my next ride, my knee began to bother me to the point I thought I as going to have to stop and have DH adjust the position of my saddle. After watching my pedal stroke for a few moments he said that there was nothing wrong with the seat position but I did not look as if I was not pedaling very smoothly. Long story short - by concentrating on the circles the pain went away.

My biking tip for the day :)
04-28-2005, 07:25 AM
MomOnBike

Quote:

Maybe MomonBike will let me come along on her Minnesota to Nebraska trip and I can just veer over towards Arkansas at the appropriate time...

Sure, come along! You'll probably get drafted to help move my daughter's Stuff, but if you think of it as cross-training, you'll work twice as hard. :D Then we can ride.

And I just might get "lost" and wind up in Arkansas. I don't always have the best of control over where my bikes take me. (I swear, it's the bikes, I'm not that irresponsible.)