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I FINALLY have a fit app't...a week from Friday.... with a fitter trained by Michael Sylvester...I realized I didn't really care if it was with a guy or a girl...so I went with the guy in the shop close by.
It's a "standard bike fit" and takes about 1.5 hours...
I have this vision of coming away with a fit that allows me to float on my bike like i can when I'm coasting....:p Is that reasonable?
CONGRATS!!!
It's the best investment for a cyclist - and it will be fun, you can learn a lot from a pro fitting!
:)
I keep hearing about getting a fitting but have no idea what it involves. Please share the details for the uninformed like me.
Are you getting a custom bike or do that do this involved a fitting for buying a bike off the showroom floor?
Well, I don't really know much about it but I've had (and witnessed) many fitting sessions over the last 30 years of riding bikes, so here's the little I can tell you...
A basic fitting involves: 1-making sure that bike frame and components match your body measurements, posture, and any particular condition, 2-finding the optimal position for all components to literally 'fit' your body and riding style.
So first of all they take some measurements of your body, and then place the bike on a stationary trainer so you can test-pedal while they make all the necessary adjustments.
The first time you buy a bicycle the shop should take your measurements and give you a bike that is the correct size for you - i.e. the frame size must be correctly fitted to your body. Likewise, at the time of purchase, the shop makes sure that you have the right base components:
-saddle (sitbone measurements, padding/no padding, materials, etc)
-crankset (i.e. the crankarm length is right for you)
-handlebar (width, reach, drop are correc for your body and posture)
-stem (length, angle)
Once you have the correct equipment, a short fitting session (that should be done anyway at the time of purchase if you buy from a reputable shop) takes care of the following:
1-finding the correct saddle height
2-finding the correct fore/aft position of the saddle
3-figuring out whether you may need some tilt or you can ride a leveled saddle (most people can, some strange people like me cannot...;))
4-finding out if you need any stem adjustments
5-finding the optimal position of your handlebar
A more lengthy (but much more useful) fitting process takes care of all of the above plus:
6-finding the optimal tension on your pedals
7-fitting the cleats in the correct position on your shoes. This is done with a powermeter on a stationary trainer, to find the position where there is no strain on the ankle and knee, and at the same time you can exert maximum power while pedaling.
8-finding the optimal position of the brake levers/shifters on the handlebars.
9-moving and readjusting cables depending on your riding style (% of time on the hoods, tops, drops) so that the equipment does not get 'in your way'.
10-finding the optimal (most aero, less disturbing for your posture) position for accessories like waterbotle cages or cyclocomputer.
11-making you pedal for a while going through all your gears and reading the powermeter and finding out if there is any glitch that needs to be taken care of.
A fitting session usually does cost some money, unless you are buying a new bike or the pro fitter works for your team - but it is definitely worth every penny.
:)
i think that for those of us over what? 40? 50? it makes sense given that we don't bounce like we used to....;)
Wow, that's impressive.
When I successfully and happily continue to bike commute through December, I am rewarding myself with a custom fitted bike for my Christmas present and will definitely get it fitted to me.
Thanks for the info.
Good for you! I've been wanting to do this for so long.
Michael is supposed to be amazing! I read about him on BikePortland a while back and was impressed. A friend went to him and had a great experience. And my BF had a fitting with someone he trained (a woman) and it went so well, got rid of some back pain, and has probably helped with his racing too!
I'd love to hear how it goes.
hee-hee...Quote:
Originally Posted by elk
that makes me a bit of a whiner I guess ;) - I started getting fitting sessions when I was 12 I think...
Now at 37 I look at everything, including where to place the bottle cage so I can grab my bottle without messing up my 'aero' position and keep the same cadence & power... :D Unbelievable the things you notice when you get older!!!
Michael trained me, too. The guy is just amazing! I learned so much from him. I use things I learned from him even when I'm *not* doing a bike fit. He truly understands fitting the bike to the real person who will ride it, and watching him work is like watching a dance. Just beautiful! He is an excellent teacher, too. (I'd be happy to be fit by anyone he has trained.)Quote:
Originally Posted by LainiePants
Elk, we want a full report! (and pictures...)
Elk that is great news. I'm so happy for you! Keep us posted. :)
you KNOW I will!!!!every detail..... :D
I couldn't get an app't with MS until October and figure I ought to make the most of the summer we have still to go. The guy is the fit manager at Bike Gallery where MS started out...
I just hope my expectations aren't too high...:eek:
Oh good for you! You're going to love it! I just had one done last week and it's made a world of difference. I had dialed a lot in just right on my own in tweaking things until they felt right, so I was proud.
The way he explained things and asked questions I was able to convey my issues and discomfort and get a resolution. He asked what percentage of my weight was where, bars/seat. I told him 60 seat 40 bar, in reality, but in practice it felt like more. Turns out Candace is a little too big for me, my fear, but we were able to get closer with a shorter stem and perhaps different bars.
I got a shorter stem Monday and while it is a little twitchy, I feel sooo much better! Oh and my saddle being where it belongs sure helps me pedal. Plus it's now a good bit higher than my bars so I feel like a cool kid!
Mine was just a 30-60 minute basic fitting for $60 but it was totally worth it. Maybe when I get ready to look at a new bike I'll do something more detailed but my bike and I are much better friends.
So how do you find out where to get fitted? Do I call the bike shops and find out who does that? When I bought my bike it seems like all they did was watch me ride it around the parking lot. My legs are long, and my knee got too close to the handlebar when I turned a corner, but that's the only technical thing they looked at. I had no idea that a professional bike fit involved a lot more than that. I didn't get a very expensive bike, but I do have some aches and pains, and would like to keep doing this forever. Does anyone have a recommendation for getting properly fitted in somewhere near Lansing or Ann Arbor, Michigan?
exactly....
i might start a new thread called fitter in Lansing? or something and the MI gals will respond.
I pretty much just went around to every LBS I could think of when I couldn't resolve pain in the backs of my knees. I'd had a preliminary fit done when I bought my bike, and then after a few weeks, that shop gave me a full fit, once I had ridden for a while and gotten a better idea about the changes I wanted to make to the bars and saddle. After I started riding more and my knees were hurting, I went back to that shop and tried a (free) refit. Nothing helped. Luckily, I told my sob story to the other (2) shops and no one else charged me for a fit service either. The next LBS I tried after the place of purchase did a lot for me. My shoulders had started hurting after the refit, because my reach was now too short. They worked on saddle position some more but gave me a more aggressive position that improved handling a lot. The pain behind my knees (especially the right, because I'm crooked) returned after hilly rides, though it was better. So I next went to my new team's sponsor shop (hoping they'd give me a fit for free--which they did). The guy noticed that I was kind of crooked and recommended a place that is more medically based with PTs and physicians on staff, where they do extensive bike fits based on an analysis of your biomechanics, and they also do fitness testing there. I never made it to that 4th place, though, because my sponsor shop noticed that my bike had been built with the wrong size crank arms for the spec of that bike (they sold the same brand). I took that information back to the place of purchase and got the crank arms swapped out for free. Then I played around a tiny bit with my saddle position based on the information I'd gotten at the last shop about proper KOPS position. From then on, I have gotten no pain that I can link to my bike fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by beccaB
It can be one helluva process, but I think if my bike had been built up right from the start, I would've had an easier time of it.
One thing I can recommend to new riders is to get a bike fit when you buy a bike but then go back months later and get re-fit after you've started adapting to the new position. I started out in a very relaxed setup, and I wound up changing my stem angle and seat position a lot. I also have been slowly getting rid of spacers on the head tube. While some things should stay the same, probably, (like bar width and saddle--if you get the right one the first time :p) your comfortable posture and position for maximum (pain-free) power output may change over time. There's not much use in spending the $$ for some of the really in-depth fittings right off the bat for newbies.
I just posted all about my recent bike fit and all the benefits it gave me. I HIGHLY recommend it!
A good friend just had a fitting done at the Bike Gallery & she is so happy. More comfortable & more efficient, a regular pedaling machine so to speak.
do you know which BG she went to?Quote:
Originally Posted by blueskies
a little late night report on my fitting today....
1 the adjustments:
raised my seat almost an inch
moved my saddle back
changed my stem to a steep short one
I was "breaking" too high up on my back and hunching my shoulders...(partly because I try to keep my pelvis tilted)...stressing my shoulders, and not using my quadraceps enough...
2 he showed me some cool tricks to help keep the pressure off the ulnar nerve and on the pads of my hands when on the hoods (if you can, tuck your little fingers inside the curve of your bar OR wrap your ring finger under the shifter)
when we were done I felt kind of awkward and heavy on the bike...i was thinking....what???!!!
I got home and went for a spin. I was amazed. i literally spun up a hill i have struggled with and reached the top easily; my hands did NOT hurt; riding suddenly had an extra jolt of thrill , partly due to being higher on the saddle and having my tires pumped up.
felt like i could ride for miles.
I'll get some pictures. And add myself to the long list of TE'ers who say yay to getting a fit done. And report back after a longer ride this weekend.
I AM a little sore from engaging formerly unengaged muscles..but i was told to expect an adjustment period of 4 or 5 rides.
:D
+...when i was paying my bill, a very juicy LBS guy went over to look at my bike, stared at her for quite awhile and then turned and said my bike was beeeyootiful; which she is...and that one thing i did not lack was taste...so i felt all proud and giddy...
Yeah! Glad you did it - see, it is really fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by elk
But yes - now we WANT new pictures :)
i think it's interesting to look at my bike before and after i was fit...looks so SLACK! before....
Before and then After ( it's like "spot the differences:)
Very interesting indeed!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by elk
Thanks for posting the pictures :)
Very cool! Glad you have joined the "professional fit club" and have a happy report. I keep thinking my best two buds should get their bikes fit, but then again, that might make them even faster and I'm barely keeping up with one of them at the moment!!! :o Ha ha!!! But it's no secret. I told them all about the wonders of the right fit and all I learned.
Glad you have a new thrill for riding. That's what happened to me and it's only been a few weeks!
Oh i forgot to say that he thought my bar choice was a good one (the Cinelli Little Wing, which by the way I learned is the same as the 3T Elle) .
It's amazing really how much I learn here......;-)
I'm not sure I learned a lot at the fitting that I could articulate; probably the tricks for staying on the fatty pads of your hands while on the hoods was the best tip I got...the rest was all in physical degrees.
I like that he raised your saddle a whole inch and tipped your handlebars back down so the the top ramps were level with the ground. The before pic looks like you had your saddle all the way back already.
Wonderful that you feel more power now. The changes must have gotten your center of gravity set further back. Yay! :)
Well I'm a bit late as I read through this I see you had your bike fit already.
Good for you!
I was going to comment on this original thought of yours elk:
I would have said yes it's a reasonable vision! I hope it came true for you.Quote:
I have this vision of coming away with a fit that allows me to float on my bike like i can when I'm coasting.... Is that reasonable?
I had a bike fit when I ordered my Serotta it comes with the deal and I was really happy I got it!!
Once my bike was all built another "fit" to tweek the bike and what a sweet ride she is!
My Serotta:
Yummy bikes!
I also had my first ever bike fit when I bought my Madone a week ago. When it is built (should be ready for pickup on Wednesday!!!), there will also be another fit to fine tune (like bikerchic). I won't know how beneficial the fittings are until I ride the bike, but based on what I've read here, I'm feeling very positive!
portugese water dogs??? luvmypwds?
i think if you are at all serious and /or sensitive a fit is the way to go...
it kinda blows my mind to look at what he did...i never would've thought to make the adjustments he made..to put it all together like that....
i just wish i didn't have this damn awful headache (tension/allergy...one of my papillons is really sick and no one knows yet why) so i could go out and ride in this gloomy weather....:)
bikerchic...thanks for the "yes you can float" ;-)
and LIsa for convincing me to trade the S Brooks for the regular one to GET that length of rail.
My bike is the right size re reach...and as small as I should go re height.
Yeah, I think it is. Now if my knee/hip did not act up after floating along for 190K I'd be happy.Quote:
I would have said yes it's a reasonable vision! I hope it came true for you.Quote:
I have this vision of coming away with a fit that allows me to float on my bike like i can when I'm coasting.... Is that reasonable?
Elk! Just realized you're a dog lover too!:)
Yes, I have two Porties!!! Love them to death.
So you actually have inspired me to go for a fit myself.
1-finding the correct saddle height - check. no change
2-finding the correct fore/aft position of the saddle check - 4 cm forward(!!)
3-figuring out whether you may need some tilt or you can ride a leveled saddle (most people can, some strange people like me cannot...) sorta check - my SMP undulates in all directions, hard to tell if it has a tilt at all
4-finding out if you need any stem adjustments check - he took out a couple spacers
5-finding the optimal position of your handlebar check- they were turned up a bit to make up for the whole shebang moving down.
A more lengthy (but much more useful) fitting process takes care of all of the above plus:
6-finding the optimal tension on your pedals - no need here
7-fitting the cleats in the correct position on your shoes. This is done with a powermeter . check- no power meter but he moved them so I actually have some float left towards the outside.
8-finding the optimal position of the brake levers/shifters on the handlebars. these were already good.
9-moving and readjusting cables depending on your riding style (% of time on the hoods, tops, drops) so that the equipment does not get 'in your way'. no issue there.
10-finding the optimal (most aero, less disturbing for your posture) position for accessories like waterbotle cages or cyclocomputer. no issue either
11-making you pedal for a while going through all your gears and reading the powermeter. no check on the power meter but he watched.
I described my little aches to him, he said it was most likely from sitting too far back. He actually told me to keep my right knee a bit more knock-kneed than I've been riding. For that reason he angled my cleats more inwards.
He emphasized that I should concentrate on the pull phase. I was also shown how to "pull" on my aerobars just so much to get a continuous arch of power down to my lower back, glutes, hamstrings. This to save my quads and calves for the run.
He said, and he said Cervélo had used data from 50'000 US and UK soldiers, that women and men actually are not that different in proportions than what lots of bike marketers tell you to push WSD...
I just went for a 25k ride and it feels good, I notice the lowered handlebars in my neck - but that will come along. My outer calves were burning, that's not what the doctor told me. Have to check with him.
he also taught me how to relax the feet and let them sink into the footbed (I don't know if I quite got it) and it felt better.
SMP!!! Interesting!!! A little while ago a couple of mechanics in the shop were debating on where to level the SMP carbon, the back, the nose... it was a funny discussion :)Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinerabbit
Ha! That makes ME feel a LOT better, thank you!!! Every time I try and ride a so-called 'women specific' bicycle I find that the geometry does not fit me in any way. I don't know enough about it - but really I have always wondered about the WSD thing... Glad I'm in good company! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by alpinerabbit
As per inspiring you to get a fitting service... here is some more temptation: my boyfriend decided to give himself the ultimate treat ;) and we went and got him a wind tunnel session with the pro fitter. He wanted to check his TT bike setup to the millimeter!
Well, I was skeptical (never done wt testing before) but I have to say looking at the stats on the computer while they were testing him - a few mm made a lot of difference! It was quite expensive (about $1k for a few hours), but the back ache issues he had sometimes are completely gone, and he found out that he is much faster now. So all in all, he is very happy he did it.
:)
I think they should probably quit calling it WSD..... there are men out there proportioned this way too... They definitely should not stop making them though!!! I'm one of the people who totally benefits from it. I cannot get a decent fit with a non WSD bike - my arms and torso are way to short.Quote:
Originally Posted by TxDoc
I once read (on Sheldon Brown perhaps?) that bikes used to really only have a variable seat tube. This means the smaller the bike, the proportionally overlong the top tube would get.
Enter my reasoning: Since blokes only go down to a 52 or so it does not hurt yet. But if you go down to a 44 or something the top tube is way too long, so they needed to shorten it, and since 99.8% of all small bikes are ridden by women, call it WSD (the 0.2% being vertically challenged men).
Re: the wind tunnel - I'm not good enough for that :D
I'm a little confused by this WSD...I have notions about my shape...
He pushed my saddle pretty much all the way back on the rail, raised the post about an inch and also raised my bar and brought it in a bit closer.
Yet...he said the bike was as small I should go height wise....but a larger frame would be too long in the reach. So I'm at the edge of too tall for the frame, at the other edge of too short for reach.
I always thought I was just short everywhere, but apparently I have those longer girl femurs...:D
I've heard the same thing - though when this was true bikes generally only came in 2 or 3 "sizes" anyway..... with only a 52, 54, or 56 people on both ends of the spectrum were pretty well out of luck....Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinerabbit
Bikes started coming smaller with variable tt lengths before the label "WSD", but they were still proportioned for people with longer torsos and arms and the very smallest sizes (yes generally used by women) were not around yet. My first 10 speed was probably about a 48- which yeah, I could stand over, but the top tube was about a 52.5, and I really need under a 50 - I now have a 49.5 and could really go shorter.
WSD does have some other connotations too - usually it means that the frame sizes will go smaller, and some other things, like handlebar width and crank length will be scaled down too. Some WSD bikes have short reach levers - but all of these things could just as easily be called "small people design" as "women's design"
Not all WSD bikes are created equal. When done right, it is a full range of sizes from small to large with appropriate geometry, and components to adjust for the sizes. In reality, these bikes can fit men or women. I am a professional bike fitter by career and I see PLENTY of guys and girls that fall into the short torso/long leg category and this is the most common person that has a bike geometry challenge. But there are people of both sexes with the opposite problem, as well. Unfortunately, so companies simply use this as marketing to sell different colored bikes.
You also can get a bike fit before you get a new bike. usually there is a bike out there that will fit the person, it's just tracking it down.
Also, if you have pain when cycling, don't always think about the bike shop. most big cities have health care specialists that specialize in cycling and do bike fitting, as well. Erik Moen and kit Vogels in Seattle, Dave Fleckenstien in Boise, an myself in Portland.
RC
Elk- glad you enjoyed your fitting. I finally got re-fit now that the stem we ordered at my fitting a while ago came in. I'm kinda glad it took about a month to come in- I got to ride more, get stronger and really feel what changes he made the first time (new bar, stem, seat position). Of course, I've also changed out my saddle and shoes since then, so he ran through everything again and commented that I looked much more relaxed and comfortable on it this time. The new stem is the specialized on with a shim system wheree you can change the angle by rotating or using different shims, so if I get stronger and want to lower the bars, I can just play with different shims. Pics before and after:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/...ef490e.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3056/...d5b826.jpg?v=0
Good for you for getting an SMP, although the beak looks a tad high to me!
Yeah, the fitter said that too and rocked it down a notch, but I really feel like I'm falling forward unless it's like that. Dunno, guess my pelvic structure is weird.