My !@&^% heart rate!

As you can guess, I'm a bit frustrated. I've been spinning at least 4 days a week and mountain biking on weekends. I feel like I'm getting more fit but it's just taking a lot longer than I had expected.

On Saturday, I went MTN biking with my husband on a trail that was really too much for me. The section I was on was over 4 miles uphill with some very steep sections. It was hot and the trail was a bit sandy. I was in the lowest gear possible trying to go as slow as possible but still my heart rate would get so high that I'd have to stop to rest. Then, I'd try again and not 30 seconds later, my heart rate would be up to 170! I realize that I shouldn't have been on that trail and was beyond frustrated having to push my bike uphill so much but I just want my cardio fitness to improve!

I'm 37 and a healthy weight. All I can do is challenge myself more when I'm spinning and on my weekend MTN bike rides but it's just sto frustrating sometimes.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Sorry about that frustrating experience, lovelylibrarian! (I love your screen name.)

It's maybe time to put the heart rate monitor aside for a little bit? Unless you're training for the Olympics - and even then - it's probably time to just go by your feeling.

I am 30 years old. I have been cycling intensely (and running) for four years now, and nothing will stop my heart from beating at nearly 200 beats a minute if I'm working really hard going up a hill. I am going up that hill much faster than I used to at the same heart rate, mind you. It used to bother me that my HR would go so high, but after discussing this with a few doctors, it doesn't anymore.

Others will probably chime in to tell you not to forget to rest a little bit. Listen to them! You should have at least one easier week out of five, or out of four. It's strange to say, but you actually improve when you're resting.

Just go out there and play. If you're about to puke you can just stand by for a few minutes and then get going again. If you feel good, then go harder. :D

Take it easy and enjoy!

Mtn biking is different than spinning. You become very efficient at spinning. Mtn biking is where everyone is inefficient when they first start. You get in better shape and become more efficient is when your heart rate starts to go down.

170 for someone your age using the basic formula is 220-37=183. You would have a max heart rate of 183. 170 is 93% which is where I was all the time when I first started actually. And actually I got my HRM above 100% but as I got more efficient it comes down. Just slow down and concentrate on cranking. And there is nothing wrong with getting off and pushing. I did alot of that too. I would get my heart rate up to 95% and then dismount and push. After awhile I did leave the HRM at home because I noticed I would be at 95% and feeling okay and still getting off and pushing. I didn't get off and push after leaving the HRM at home unless I *felt* like I had to.

What kind of grade is this hill? Are you doing Mt Tam? I pushed it up that hill. Heat with also contribute to a higher heart rate as well as lack of hydration, are you drinking enough water? I find this to be my problem when it's hot.

SLoW n SteAdY wins the race....or at least gets up the hill ;)

I do ride mtn with my hrm. I listen to my body. When my heart feels like it's going to pop out of my chest, I usually have weaker legs. I stop for about 10 seconds and literally can watch my hr drop 10-20 points. After that drop, I can continue the climb. My friends that I ride with know I have been working with this so are patient for me to finish the climb. Once I get to the top, I have know problems bombing down a hill!!

Just a note to add that the conventional formulas don't work for everybody. The highest I've seen my hr is 198 at the end of an 8k race when I was really pushing it. That was some years ago. I watched it go up gradually as I increased speed, so it wasn't a fluke. These days, the highest I see it is around 185. The formulas say my hr max is 183 too. I guess not! :D

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Originally Posted by lovelylibrarian

As you can guess, I'm a bit frustrated. I've been spinning at least 4 days a week and mountain biking on weekends.

...my heart rate would get so high that I'd have to stop to rest. Then, I'd try again and not 30 seconds later, my heart rate would be up to 170!

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How long have you been spinning, at what intensities and what length are your classes / your weekend rides?

This maybe presumption but if you take 4 1-hour spin classes at high intensity, and ride 1-2 hours on weekends, also at high intensities, and you’re experiencing this on a longer, harder ride than usual, you haven’t got the base for that – from long slow rides.

Mind you, if you read my recent thread over in triathlon, I’m nowhere near perfect in this area….

So once you’ve gone over your usual comfort zone in terms of duration (1-2hrs) or intensity, your HR skyrockets. Happened to me on my epicalicious ride last week – after 6 hours, even a small roller would make it shoot up.

I would even say 4 spin classes a week tax your system a lot – would be too much for me. Some of that time would be better spent doing a longer slower ride.

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Originally Posted by teawoman

Just a note to add that the conventional formulas don't work for everybody. The highest I've seen my hr is 198 at the end of an 8k race when I was really pushing it. That was some years ago. I watched it go up gradually as I increased speed, so it wasn't a fluke. These days, the highest I see it is around 185. The formulas say my hr max is 183 too. I guess not! :D

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Didn't want to bore everyone with a longgggg post on all the formulas :) and hijack the thread! I went to a sports lab and had mine measured and it is higher than the 'formula' one. Not everyone is interested in doing that. I know I probably won't do it again and I just add a few when I set up my HRM. It was disturbing when I first started using the HRM to see my heart rate over 100% but now I go by what my body is telling me...I only strap the HRM when I want to do a hard ride and I KNOW I'm slacking!

I've seen 200+ while mountain biking, and I'm guessing my max is probably in the 200 - 205 range ... but 220 - 39 = 181. Off much??!! So I know that the 220-Age formula is way, way, waaaay off for me. I use my HR monitor almost all the time. But it really isn't useful if you don't understand what the numbers mean. In my case, I have a tendency to be in sprint mode all the time, and I burn myself out on longer rides. The HRM tells me when I need to back off. I'm learning to do that a little better now without the HRM, but if I'm going with a fast group or doing a long ride I ALWAYS wear it.

(See the "High Heartrates and HR Zone training" thread in the Health Issues forum for a lot more info on HR)

But also, as Tahoe mentioned, mountain biking is NOT spinning, and is NOT road biking. If you mountain bike anywhere with real elevation changes you're going to experience a lot of anaerobic effort ... sometimes very, very high heart rates. The first summer that I was out riding I couldn't keep up with anybody, I couldn't make it up a lot of the climbs, and my HR was regular up in the 190+ range. Too high, even for me, and I didn't know well enough to know that I wasn't riding at my own pace. (I really didn't know what "my own pace" was, because I didn't know the first thing about what my MHR or HR zones were). And from what I've seen with other women the fitness required, and the commitment to saddle time to improve mountain bike fitness, is high on the list of reasons that they burn out and give up on mountain biking.

Don't let that happen to you!! Mountain biking is fun, if you can find your own pace and stick with it. Take it slower if you need to. If you need to stop for a moment to recover, DO IT. Over the last 3 or 4 seasons I've increased my average speed by almost 3 mph, and I'm finally making it up all our hills. I'm still one of the slower people in the groups I ride with, but I couldn't ride with them at all when I started, so it's an improvement.

The most significant gains I made were in the last year, because I made a specific goal with a time limit ... a local race. In my case it was a 50 mile mountain bike race. If you're just beginning, maybe select a particular group ride or section of local trails that you think would be fun if only you were in better mountain biking shape. Or a local race. And don't let the word "race" intimidate you ... if you ask around you'll find that there's at least one nearby that's a "true beginner" course, and you'll also find that the other racers are usually very supportive of the beginners. Whatever your goal, it can help you stay motivated and seriouos about sticking with a training plan. If you want to go it on your own, pick up the Training Bible or the Mountain Bikers Training Bible.

It sounds like you really want to improve your fitness. Hold on to that motivation, don't burn yourself out because you want to see improvements tomorrow. You will absolutely start to see improvements over time!

I saw 202 today - sweet - didn't know it had gone that high. I was at the end of my mtn ride and wanted to tackle another hill. Guess I was more tired than I had realized. Like I've successfully done in the past, I waited a few seconds for it to drop then finished the hill.

Wow, thanks so much for all of the excellent feedback. I'm feeling a bit better today. I get frustrated when I see that my husband and others can make it up the hill, but I can't. I just need to be more patient with myself.

I agree that I should stop freaking out by watching my heart rate and instead focus on how I feel. Also, my husband made the same point as one of the comments above. I'm not used to long slow rides and spinning isn't really preparing me for that. I'm thinking that I'll take one of the days I usually spin and take a long slower ride on my bike outside or in the gym instead. That should help me improve. I've only been spinning for about 4 months and my classes range from 45 minutes to an hour. When I MTN bike, it's usually 3 hours of biking with various stops in between.

For those in CA, here is a map of the area and bike trails at Mount Diablo State Park in the East Bay. http://www.bikemapdude.com/diablomap.html

We started at Mitchell Canyon Road and I made it up to Deer Flat. Then we took some loop around back down. Total elevation gain for me was 1500 ft.

Thanks again for the suggestions. I'm going to change how I work out during the week, read a bit more on things and not give up!

Karen

I had a friend tell me that your fitness level isn't a sign of how high your heart rate goes up, but the length of time it takes to recover after exertion. Like after your big hills. I was frustrated as well, as I thought hey I am in shape, why is this so difficult for me, and why is my heart pounding so hard. But then my recovery was pretty quick, and we are working our bodies hard, so I gave myself a bit of a break. :D

I often will turn my HRM to where I can't see it on really difficult sections of road :D

...and like many of the ladies here, the age predicted max formula is off for me, too- I'm 27 and I see numbers in the low 200s every time I do a sprint or other max intensity workout (not that they stay there for long, but I can hold low 190's for several minutes). You just have to work your way up with how long you can stay in that heart rate "red zone". Don't worry, you'll get there!

Just go for it- pedal until you feel like you can't pedal any more (HRM be damned)!!

Uhm, yeah NOW I'm laughing. Last year after a great riding season year round riding in the desert in Nevada (desert does not mean flat btw!) and then up in the Sierras after the snow melt, I went to Mt Diablo to ride to get out of the smoke when Tahoe was on fire (literally in my neighborhood) last year. I'm seriously laughing now. You would think that being up in the mountain and riding hills at altitude I would find it easier. Oh NO WAY! Oh was I humbled. I thought it would be hard but not...as hard as it was! So as far as your concern not being able to get up that hill? That is NOT an easy hill! So go easy on yourself. Just keep cranking at it if that is your goal. I think on Mt Diablo I went up not even halfway, got too hot and just went home. I know people that love that ride, but there are *so many* other rides I think you would enjoy, don't base mountain biking on that climb!!!! Darn, wish I was back on the west coast :( I could take you on some reallllyyyyy fun ones!!! Spinning really helped your aerobic level (and possibly your lactate threshhold depending on your instructor) but really pushing your lactate threshhold is what will keep you going up that hill. Meaning, you need to get up in the attic as far as your HR and work it as an interval. There are hundreds of different ways to do it, the easiest is what you are doing already. Ride until you can't. Get off. Push. Get on when you can breathe and talk. Ride until you can't. Rinse. Repeat.

One of my first really hard rides as a beginner with some friends was in the Nevada desert with a climb of 800 feet. I was trying to keep up with everyone. I wound up tossing my cookies over the handlebars. If I had listened to my body and stopped, I think I would of been better off. But it taught me a lesson that as many have said before, "where there is a biker, there is a hiker"...

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Originally Posted by TahoeDirtGirl

Didn't want to bore everyone with a longgggg post on all the formulas :) and hijack the thread! I went to a sports lab and had mine measured and it is higher than the 'formula' one. Not everyone is interested in doing that. I know I probably won't do it again and I just add a few when I set up my HRM. It was disturbing when I first started using the HRM to see my heart rate over 100% but now I go by what my body is telling me...I only strap the HRM when I want to do a hard ride and I KNOW I'm slacking!

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Other than going to a sports lab, do you think it's reasonable to go to the gym and sprint for a long time until I can't go any longer to try to figure out my max heart rate?

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Originally Posted by TahoeDirtGirl

Uhm, yeah NOW I'm laughing. Last year after a great riding season year round riding in the desert in Nevada (desert does not mean flat btw!) and then up in the Sierras after the snow melt, I went to Mt Diablo to ride to get out of the smoke when Tahoe was on fire (literally in my neighborhood) last year. I'm seriously laughing now. You would think that being up in the mountain and riding hills at altitude I would find it easier. Oh NO WAY! Oh was I humbled. I thought it would be hard but not...as hard as it was! So as far as your concern not being able to get up that hill? That is NOT an easy hill! So go easy on yourself. Just keep cranking at it if that is your goal. I think on Mt Diablo I went up not even halfway, got too hot and just went home. I know people that love that ride, but there are *so many* other rides I think you would enjoy, don't base mountain biking on that climb!!!! Darn, wish I was back on the west coast :( I could take you on some reallllyyyyy fun ones!!!

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Thanks again for the support. I'm sure it didn't help that it was 2:30 pm when we started and really hot! If you ever make it back to the Bay Area, be sure to let me know. I'd love to meet you.

There are many road bike groups in the area but I haven't met any women that are experienced MTN bikers yet. I'm going to try to go on a Velo Girls ride in Palo Alto one of these days if I can get myself down there. The support would be great.

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Originally Posted by lovelylibrarian

Other than going to a sports lab, do you think it's reasonable to go to the gym and sprint for a long time until I can't go any longer to try to figure out my max heart rate?

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Sally Edwards has a lot of good information in her various heart rate books. No, I would not go to the gym and go as hard as you can to figure it out, there is a method to how to do it.

If you do have a gym membership, you might look at spin classes. They are a great way to build up an aerobic base and get to understand effort and heart rate. I find if I spin regularly in the off season I am much more prepared for bike season.

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Originally Posted by Irulan

If you do have a gym membership, you might look at spin classes. They are a great way to build up an aerobic base and get to understand effort and heart rate. I find if I spin regularly in the off season I am much more prepared for bike season.

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Yes, I spin 4 days a week now. I'm thinking of changing one of those days to a low intensity longer ride. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by lovelylibrarian

Other than going to a sports lab, do you think it's reasonable to go to the gym and sprint for a long time until I can't go any longer to try to figure out my max heart rate?

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I think it's easier and more helpful to figure out your lactate threshold. If you've been riding regularly with your HR monitor, you should already have a good idea of approx. what your max HR is. Joe Friel's books are great references. I did his LT test (basically a 30 min TT) and then used his charts to figure out my different HR zones. I reprogrammed my HR monitor and it feels pretty accurate and like I'm getting a better picture now.

Basically, mountain biking is a real kick in the butt. I've been trying for several years to not feel so exhausted and like my heart is going to pound out of my chest. I think road biking more definitely helps, as does the trainer in the off-season and just sticking with it and realizing that it will come in time.

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Originally Posted by lovelylibrarian

Other than going to a sports lab, do you think it's reasonable to go to the gym and sprint for a long time until I can't go any longer to try to figure out my max heart rate?

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Sprinting for a long time on a spin bike is maybe not the most effective way to "max" out.

A sprint, by its definition on a bike, is short and intense. So that is what you should aim for.
By all means warm up, but when you "sprint" you need to burn everything you have in your body.
If you train using sprint intervals, you build up to a sprint of maybe 20-30seconds, and in between you rest for about 2minutes to allow your heart rate to drop.

So try that. Warm up, then ride for 5 minutes increasing the intensity til you are going about as hard as you can... and then it is time to sprint. Give it everything you possibly can. When you feel like you are going to throw up (which should be within half a minute) you are nearing max heart rate. If you actually do throw up, you have found your max heart rate.

So ideally all you need to find you max heart rate is your bike, a wind-trainer, someone to yell at you to make you push yourself harder... and a bucket :p

Oh... and if you use this method, when you get off - don't step in the bucket

Mt. Diablo has some really tough climbs - really steep so if you are having a bit of a hard time there, don't sweat it. I can remember many a ride on Mt. Diablo where I was in granny gear, just barely holding my front wheel down on the ground and spinning ever so slowly, slowly up and up and up and up! And, walking some too. So if your heartrate is way up there, that is where it is supposed to be when you climb something like Diablo! It will probably never get better there, cause a lot of those climbs are just what I call
"maxed out" climbs. You are maxed and it is all you can do to stay on the bike (or not)! Hang in there, you stay on longer and longer as you ride that sort of thing, but it takes a while to be able to push yourself that hard.

spoke

I'll chime in here (I am a personal trainer)...to increase your cardiovascular fitness you must increase and decrease your heartrate several times over a period of time. MTBing does this naturally, but you can simulate it at home...but be careful of not pushing your heart rate high enough, for long enough...or "adapting" (true technical term).
For example...I am a professional rider (of horses). I can ride along for some time, thinking of other things, and barely break a sweat. A beginning rider is using muscles that they have never used, so posting a trot for 10 minutes leaves them breathless, with their heart rate somewhere near Mars. Take that same rider who is totally worthless (fitness wise) and stick em on a MTB and, if they are proficient at MTBing, they can go longer and faster easier than someone else who can run a marathon, but has never been on a MTB.
So, if your exercise is MTBing, you have to continually fight adaption to truly become fit. Pedal harder, faster, stand more (if you tend to sit) or make yourself do seated climbs if you prefer to stand. And, to get fitter, allow yourself to recover, then hit it again.

And here is my personal hint...I can't stand to hear myself breathe. It makes me feel way tireder (is that a word??). So I iPod it. I use one bud unless I am on a deserted trail or road and don't listen to myself pant. I use a HR monitor only while spinning. And before you know it! Fit!