What makes a participant do these things??

I've been a cyclist for a long time and a cycle instructor since 1997 and after reading some of the comments here, I thought I'd ask some of the questions that I have regarding participants.

Why would you insist on riding with your hands behind your back, or crossed over your chest, or just hanging by your sides when I caution that you need to keep at leat one hand connected to the bike unless your wiping off sweat or getting a drink? I've seen pedal spindles break at least six times in the last eleven years and it still amazes me that people want to pedal away (sometimes even standing!:eek:) with no hands. When it happened again this last weekend I just said, "I understand they're doing great things with dentures these days" and let it go.

What benefit do you think you'll get by pedalling backwards? This isn't for those brief moments before or after class that I see members doing, this is for those people that are really going at it like it's going to enhance their performance in some way. Then, when I caution them against it...it's a personal affront.

And the last, why come to a class with your friend if all you want to do is talk, talk, and then talk some more during the class:confused:. I actually had a member tell me that they had to plan a wedding and this is when they had time to discuss it:confused::eek:. I pointed to the bikes out on the general aerobic area and said that was where they could do their wedding plans. Yeah...I get a little testy because I know the majority of people (and I know cyclists are among the top end) just want to get their ride, and their training in.

I guess I'm just venting a little after a week of having too many distractions from the "off the norm" participants and not enough actual riding on my part.

Still, I know a lot of you take classes from the instructors that are filling their classes with contraindicated stuff (hovers, push-ups, a gazillion moves just to fill the hour etc.), but I wonder how many of you realise many instructors face the other side; those that want to do unsafe moves (even if they stem from other instructors) that we need/want to correct without alienating the member?

It's the public & people are stupid...That's my 5 Cents

I'm sure you're a cool instructor ;)

OY! Must be in the air...
No real advice or anything, but MAN do I feel you!
I've been wanting to vent about some things I've had to deal with at the bike shop lately, but I didn't want to send out a negative vibe, or give the wrong impression... (but here I go anyway, hope this doesn't come across wrong)

For example, WHAT on gods green earth would make someone think it's ok to come into a shop and proclaim/ask "Well I buy all my stuff online from like nashbar and Jensen, but the idiots on the phone don't seem to know what they are doing. So if order the wrong thing I can come to you guys and you'll tell me what I need right? So then I'll know what to ask them for when I need to excahnge it"....
My manager who is normally SO restrained actually looked at the guy point blank and simply said firmly "NO"....
Yes, a guy actually said that pretty much verbatim! :cool:

Or the guy who rebuilds 80's style bmx bikes. He never so much as buys a tube from us, but he has no problem coming in and taking our mechanics attention away for 20-30 minutes at a time while he asks them to explain to him in detail how to fix something. Or he'll ask to borrow a tool??!!
Ok, I have no problem giving advice, or answering questions, but it has to work both ways. Give us a few bones every once in awhile. I pay my staff PER HOUR whether they are doing something earning me revenue or not. And when you take them away from whatever is on the stand, you are also cutting in front of the person who IS paying us for our services!

WOW. I feel MUCH better! :o
Sorry to hijak this thread, but it's kind of related as to why sometimes dealing with the public can be so frustrating.
Tho I must say 99.9% of the folks who walk in my door are fabulous!
It's that .1% that grate on my last little nerve! :cool:
I'm sure it's the same way in your class.
Sigh.... (shrugs shoulders)....

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Originally Posted by crazycanuck

It's the public & people are stupid...That's my 5 Cents

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That's it in a nutshell.

You know...sometimes it just helps to vent...and then read other peoples vents and realise that the simple answer came to us on this forum...from Craxycanuk

It's the public & people are stupid.

I don't even want to mention the guy that takes my class and partakes in ironman competitions...well, yeah I do want to mention him cause it feeds right into this thread:rolleyes:

He shows up, and while I'm explaining the process to a couple of newbies, I include the warning not to take their exertion to panting because that leads to puking and it disrupts the flow of the class (my attempt at humor). Meanwhile, the ironman guy pulls the garbage can from the front of the room and tells me, "I don't feel too good, so I might need this." I told him that I'm a sympathetic vomiter and he needed to get his "not feeling-too-good-self" out of my class because there was no way in hell I was going to chance him pukeing (sp?) during my class.

Gawd! What nerve!:eek::mad:

Oh... I forgot to mention that he did leave. I'm short but aggressive!!!!

How about the people who arrive early & "save" bikes for all of their friends by placing towels, spinning shoes, etc. on the handlebars? Then, the working class folks come in & can't get a bike. THAT really p*sses me off.

Or, the guy who does back-to-back classes when others are waiting for the second class? I talked to management & they said they can't (won't) do anything because he's a paying member like everybody else.

Centers of the universe, indeed!

I used to do back to back classes if I could get them, because I needed 2+ hrs on a bike for my training. Usually, these classes would not be during peak times, so the 3 or 4 of us who did it weren't taking bikes away from anyone else. During peak hours, if I needed more time, I'd use a spin bike in the general rec areas, if there was one at that gym.

Anyway, as for the people who really shouldn't be there...I have no idea. I've seen people bring their own music into classes. I saw one woman bring a book. I see plenty of people only do 30 min (of a much longer class) and then leave. I guess that's ok if you have a tight schedule some days and want to squeeze in a workout, but not when some people were shut out of the class who would've stayed the whole time. Sometimes, these are classes not covered by membership (but cost extra), so I wonder why they wasted their money...

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Why would you insist on riding with your hands behind your back, or crossed over your chest, or just hanging by your sides when I caution that you need to keep at leat one hand connected to the bike unless your wiping off sweat or getting a drink?

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raindrop, I'm not challenging what you said, I'm sincerely requesting more info. I routinely during cool-down, or if there is a quick reprieve between songs, will sit all the way up on the bike (i.e., no hands) and spin, usually with my hands at my side or on my hips. I'm especially inclined to do this after a more intense track, as I find the position allows me to "open up my chest", breathe better and bring my HR down a bit. Is this really a bad thing? (several people in the class tend to do it, and the instructor has never said otherwise). I wouldn't dream of doing this while standing.

Instructors here have that as a normal routine. Hands behind your back, bend as low as you can to engage abs. One that I don't do as it hurts my back, is hand behind your back while standing, then switch. Must be how the instructors were taught to give you a varied routine perhaps?

Eh, I can only guess that people put their hands behind their backs so they won't lean on the handlebars and hold their weight up with their arms... thus engaging their abs and core muscles more. I don't get it though. One lady I know who has been going to spin classes for years... I think it's produced a hunched back with her. Or she just has really bad posture.

As for bringing in your own music... I've done that. I won't lie. A couple of years back I had to go to spin classes to get my rides in, as I didn't have a bike trainer at home. The music that motivates me is music that doesn't motivate anyone else... and thus, I always hate the music that is being played in class.

So, I would go to the back of the room, in the corner and take the class from there with my headphones on. I would try to stay away from being in front or anything like that. I just wanted to ENJOY the class without having some horrible music being blared in my ears.

One instructor finally told me that I couldn't wear them because her manager said no more... because it was a liability... if I couldn't hear what she was saying I might get hurt. OH REALLY? Oddly I can run on a treadmill, with headphones and not get hurt... but somehow I'm going injury myself on a stationary bike? I followed up with her manager and found out it was a lie. Which really ticked me off.

Thank goodness I have a bike trainer now and I don't have to go to spin classes anymore.

Well, I had a participant come to my aerobics classes with her own music. And she sang out loud to the music while I was try to cue the participants.

Hi Cyclingmomma. I just now saw your post and wanted to clarify that I should of added during cool down I regularly have the participants sitting up without their hands on the handlebars. But, during cool-down, the pedaling is much slower and even if there is a pedal spindle break, the person has time to catch themselves.

As far as listening to your own music in class...well, I have to admit that I'm coming from a biased point of view. I spend a lot of time planning the focus of the class, the profile and selecting music to fit that profile, so I do sort of look at it as a personal affront to have someone come in and use their own ipod. Additionally, I use an eclectic choice of music so usually, if you hate one song there's a very good chance that you'll like the others. I also [B]always [B] say at the end of my classes, "if you had any issues with the bike, the music or me, please let me know". I know that not everyone will like all of my playlist and that music is very subjective. However, if you hate the music that I choose, there are other instructors that play other types of music and everyone can vote with their feet.

Luckily, my classes stay full.

Raindrop, I'd ask where your classes were but I'm mostly content right now. Of course it's summer too so I tend not to do indoor classes.

I don't know why people take a class and then talk through the whole thing. I've always felt sorry for instructors when they say "at this stage you shouldn't be able to carry on a conversation" and people are :confused: I always thought there might be pressure from the gym to not alienate people just due to the fact it's a fairly competitive business.

I've run a limited gamut of indoor cycling instructors. Some are cyclists and don't know how to instruct, some are 80's aerobic type people who aren't cyclists, and one just tried to talk about how awesome he was. (This was the one who had people in awe because he could cycle 12 whole miles in an hour!!!)

I do think being a good instructor is a talent and the music and class plan is important. It's funny because I am a music purist and give it all up for the right spin class. Tempo, mood, and all of that matters because hill climbing songs are different than sprint songs and I appreciate the work that goes into the planning. I've even climbed hills in reality and a spin song will come into my head and help me pace myself on the hill.

So I guess I'm saying for those instructors who do a good job and actually DO speak out if someone is disrupting the class, there are those of us who appreciate it. As rude as it is to be talking during a class, it is just as frustrating to those who want to be there and keep hearing about what somebody bought at the mall.

Now, how's about those people who get on the list (there are gyms that require a sign-up list if the classes fill up) so there are people turned away. The sign-up list people only stay 20 minutes or so before they decide they have something better to do and then there is a vacant bike the rest of the class. What the heck is up with that?!

Oh...I totally get your frustration with the sign-up list. What I've always done is give away any empty bikes if the signed-up rider doesn't show within five minutes of the class start.

My real frustration comes from the gym management at one facility. After using a perfectly executed sign-up sheet (which took awahile to train the participants), the general manager (who has absolutely nothing to do with the aerobic/cycling program) decides it's no longer needed.:eek: This, even though the classes (mornings particularly), are over-filled. The reason he gave? Too much paper. I suggested the use both sides or even one of "them new-fangled white boards:rolleyes:). But no....he wouldn't budge.

So now we're back to people throwing towels on several bikes to save them for friends who don't show up.:mad:

My instructor is quite straightforward and will tell participants directly (me included) when they are doing something unsafe or wrong. My problem is that my knees tend to be too close together. So he calls me on it. He calls out other people in the class to, among other things, increase resistance to stop bouncing, ride properly with your hands on the bars, decrease resistance to get up to cadence, chin up to breathe properly, drink up, etc. It's his job to teach us what's right. I expect that, and would not like it if he just kept quiet or made general comments to the group. Some people don't know they are doing things wrong, and some just need reminding. He's good at learning people's names, and at the beginning of the class will ask people he doesn't know what their names are. I think people behave better since he knows their names. There's no chitchat, but there is a friendly banter between the instructor and the participants.

Some people show up really early and put their towel on the bike and then go do their core work and come back at the beginning of class. That seems perfectly acceptable to me. It's hard to differentiate between those towels and ones that other people have put up for friends. However, it's reasonable to make it clear that five minutes before class the people waiting get dibs on unoccupied bikes. Put up signs a few weeks before you start this so that everyone knows. It'll only take a few times for things to work themselves out.

just wondering how is having your knees too close together bad for you? this is a great way to work your hammys when your quads tend to get tired.

The instructor told me that knees should be inline, not knock-kneed and not sticking out. He's a physical therapist in his regular job, so he knows more than me. Plus, I've had hip problems and don't want to exacerbate them. I noticed in the TDF one of the Spanish riders (I think) was extremely knock-kneed. I guess he's okay with it.

Exactly. Some of the pros have developed extremely strong adductor (inner thigh) muscles, and they can get away with having their knees a bit closer to the top tube to enlist those muscles more on the upstroke. However, they won't have any "knee wobble" throughout the pedal stroke. It can be very risky for your knee health to have your knees go out of the centerline when pedaling, either outward or inward. You want your kneecaps to be facing forward. You might be able to accomplish this and have your knees in a bit. It all depends on your own biomechanics. However, I wouldn't really advocate that people change it up just for the sake of enlisting certain muscles or (on the road) to be more aero. If a knee (or both) are out of line, then it could take a negative toll on your knees over time. That's what my orthopedist says and what I've heard from bike fitters.

cool. thanks.

i only bring the knees in every now and then during spin class.

i dont do it when im out on the road cycling.

Until I read this thread I'd never seen anyone standing up in the pedals and not holding onto the handlebars until yesterday. I mentioned it to a friend after class and she told me that the woman in question is a top sports physician who has Olympic athletes as clients.

Presumably she knows what she's doing but I have to think she's setting a bad example for the newbies in the class who still haven't even mastered the basics!

I just joined my local YMCA about 6 weeks ago so i could use their stationary bikes when it was too hot to ride outside or too cold and to do light weight training. Anyway, I saw they had "Spinning" classes there but after hearing that during the class you do "push-ups" against the handlebars, and other things like hands-behind-the back, etc. I don't think I'll take them. The spinning bikes are in the main gym and they do have open gym once a day, so if I want to use them, I can do so during that time and just "Spin."

But they also have these stationary bikes that have a little video screen mounted to the handlebars that shows other rides, a pace rider, and different scenes you choose. I've used that--it's cool! It has gears, the seat position is similar to my Hybrid, and I get a good work out. You can set the pace rider to go as slow/fast as you wish.

Is there an advantage to doing "spinning" over something like the virtual bike?

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Originally Posted by squirrell

Is there an advantage to doing "spinning" over something like the virtual bike?

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Almost always the "spin" bikes have more adjustability, and often you can bring your own pedals, sometimes your own saddle. If you're comfortable on the computerized bikes, go for it!

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Originally Posted by squirrell

I
But they also have these stationary bikes that have a little video screen mounted to the handlebars that shows other rides, a pace rider, and different scenes you choose. I've used that--it's cool! It has gears, the seat position is similar to my Hybrid, and I get a good work out. You can set the pace rider to go as slow/fast as you wish.

Is there an advantage to doing "spinning" over something like the virtual bike?

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I think the answer is in your question. :p On the video screen bikes you said you said you get a good work out, the bike is similar to your hybrid and you like it. Perfect!

The University just reopened the HUGE campus rec facility, it has a spinning "studio" with large flat screen monitors. They're going to run different "trips" where you cycle through Spain and learn Spanish at the same time, and another where you cycle through wine country and learn about the vineyards. The keep the lights really low so you can feel like you're actually there, I'm thinking I'll try the wine country one...think they'll mind if I bring a bottle of red along for a more complete experience?? :p

i realize this thread has died a little, but i'm new here and wanted to add one little thing:
how about the people that still insist on doing pushups on the bike!!!!
pushups... really.
or those that insist on never sitting on the seat. they slam the seat way down and back. it's harder they claim.
GRRR!!!

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Originally Posted by pulch21

i realize this thread has died a little, but i'm new here and wanted to add one little thing:
how about the people that still insist on doing pushups on the bike!!!!
pushups... really.
or those that insist on never sitting on the seat. they slam the seat way down and back. it's harder they claim.
GRRR!!!

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Better known as Contraindicated Movements. So silly, aren't they? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Crankin

Well, I had a participant come to my aerobics classes with her own music. And she sang out loud to the music while I was try to cue the participants.

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Now that is WIERD!
did she have headphones on? Didn't she realize just about everyone sings monotone w/ headphones on?

I have been lurking on the spinning thread for awhile and really thinking about a lot of it. So here are my thoughts FWIW

re: a lot of contraindicated moves like pushups, one arm behind the back etc. I have decided it boils down to teaching philosophy and reasons for spinning.
I am assuming everyone on this site are outside, regular bike riders first, spin class instructors/participants 2nd.

I did some informal research to find out how many participants in the spin class I attend ride regular bikes outside - in a group of 12 there were 3. All others simply go to spin class year round and don't own bikes. They are strictly there for what the workout can do for them and feel good if they think they are getting a "full body" workout. They don't give a rip about proper cycling form or whether any movements are contraindicative to "real" cycling and the classes are geared to them - they are the majority.

One of the more popular instructors is a road rider whom I ride regularly w/. I kind of feel she sold out. She went to some workshops and is now doing all the crazy arm stuff. I don't care if she gets mad at me but I don't do them. I just say "I swam over a mile this morning, I got plenty of upper body workout."
When she does something else I don't agree w/ I just don't do it.

Re people leaving - if it is the same people over and over again I agree that is a problem. However, I have seen a lot of beginners leave after 1/2 hour because of the intensity of the workout, they try to keep up w/ the big dogs and burn out. I try to tell my beginning friends to gear down, sit down, spin slower and do what it takes but try to get through the hour at an easier pace - but we all know what group mentality is like :rolleyes:

Re talking during class How loud are they talking? Is it interrupting the instructor? people beside them? If not I say let it go - they are not in school, they are not training for some elite event where they are being paid millions of dollars so if they want to talk they can. If they aren't pedaling hard enough to not talk who really cares.
If they are bothering others then that is an issue and can be asked to talk more quietly or move to the back where others can't hear them.
I am guilty, I have talked in class sometimes and I don't care. Others can still hear and I am not interrupting the instructor. It is not Boot camp, the instructor is not a drill sargent. I am not getting paid to be there, I am paying to be there. I get out of it what I put into it, if my friend and I don't want to work as hard that day that is our problem.

I have taught general adult education art classes for years, I have taught teacher workshops and I teach HS students daily. I have learned that general population adults are not good students and teachers believe it or not are the rudest of all. BUT they are paying for the class, if they don't want to do something I am not going to make them. I introduce it, I help them if needed but I have learned it is not a reflection on me or my class if they don't succeed.

I do think it is up to the instructor to point out and assist w/ good form to help prevent injury. I get upset w/ instructors who just sit on their spin bikes yelling out instructions and never get off to assist the participants w/ seat height, body alignment, foot position etc. I believe they are getting paid to teach, not just to get their own workout in. I have stopped my workout (for which I am paying BTW) more than once to help the person beside me adjust their bike while the instructor stayed on her bike. I realize that stopping, getting off your bike, helping someone can throw off the flow, but I have seen the good instructors be able to multi task and keep everyone else going while they help someone.

Which brings me to MY RANT. I wanted to talk to the programming director to find out what I would need to do to get certified to teach a beginning spin class. I was intercepted by the spin instructor mentioned earlier. She said "I will talk to her but they won't let you do it because I am already on staff and I don't cost them any more money" I am sure she never mentioned it to the director. Me thinks she doesn't want competition.
My feeling (because I have been there) is even our classes touted as "beginner" are much too difficult for a beginner - I see them come, last 20 minutes, leave and never come back. I wanted to start one where there was longer recovery, slower cadences, teach proper form etc. I had a group of followers (OK they were my friends :D who were really pumped about it. Well nothing has happened and the classes are still puking hard if you do what the instructor tells you to do and beginners don't come back.

I just realized I have quit going to classes taught by that specific instructor and just go to the one taught by another friend from our summer riding group. He teaches much more traditionally and straight forward, fixes the bikes if something is wrong and helps people. He gets an A+ in my book.

Yes, Eclectic, that woman was wearing headphones when she came to my class. She knew she was singing loud enough for us to hear her. She just stayed in the back of the room and did her own thing. She was slightly off, putting it mildly.
I quit teaching classes because of all of the above stuff. It was worse than the kids at school. At times I have thought about getting spin certified, since it is not a huge time commitment. But, I am not sure who would like my classes. I was always the safe, slower paced instructor with aerobics and my classes were full of people just like me. Not that I couldn't dance really fast in my 30's and 40's, but after just a couple of years and a stress fracture and plantar fascitis, I learned my lesson. My gym does not seem quite as bad as some of the stuff discussed here, but we definitely have the teachers who are riders and the ones who are just spin instructors. I have been going to class pretty regularly since December; the one I can get to on Saturday has awful remixed music just like what I had in the 80s. Her class has gotten better, though. But Thursday i had the cat 2 racer/triathlete for class. What a difference. The time went by so fast and I was doing what cyclists do. Good music, too. At least we have to call and sign up or you don't get in. They give you a card and have to present it to the instructor.
I just don't like the cattiness of the clients; I would have some people tell my boss that I was terrible and someone else from the same class would say I was the best instructor, ever. I am glad that in another month I won't have to go as much.

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Originally Posted by Dogmama

...Or, the guy who does back-to-back classes when others are waiting for the second class? I talked to management & they said they can't (won't) do anything because he's a paying member like everybody else...

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Well, I didn't shut anybody out. There were a few bikes left in each class today. But I did do 3 in a row. It's about 20F outside and the roads are powder-snow-on-ice. NOT my kind of cycling conditions, though some do bike through the Winter here. Nor do I have rollers or some other trainer to prop my bike up on, or a place in the house where I can see doing that. So it's spin classes all winter for me, and as I try to put in increasing numbers of hours it'll have to be back-to-back classes. Maybe that's what his situation is like too, and maybe that's why he joined the gym ...? For instance, today will be my only Monday without choir practice until after ALC, and thus my only chance to do the 3-in-a-row experiment. Other days, there simply aren't 3 classes back-to-back at my gym. So I told the instructors as each came around to collect our tickets that I'd be "riding my own ride" and using their class to keep myself alert and entertained at a moderate "pace", which would be about 75-80% of max HR. They were very supportive and encouraging. All in all it came to 3 hrs and 15 minutes. It'll probably be my longest "ride" until the snow is gone from the bike paths. I plan to do a double-session tomorrow and Wednesday as well (last week I noticed there are half-a-dozen of us doing that), then the endurance class (75 minutes) on Friday and the intervals class Saturday morning. At 9+ hours I hope it'll be my biggest indoor spin week ever. I'll be away next week, then have one moderate week, away again the week after, then another moderate week, then in CA for a couple of road rides, and when I get home after that I hope I'll be able to do the rest of my training outdoors. I'll be glad to be outdoors, but I'll miss some of my instructors. I've promised them postcards from California to tell them how their coaching has paid off on my ALC ride. :cool: Ooh! That reminds me. I need to get sunglasses. :)