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How can I become strong enough to ride with a group that rides faster than me, if I can't keep up with them? Though I'm usually only about 5 minutes behind them.
And when I ride with the slower group I'm always in front.
So basically I'm in the middle. What do I do?
And what if the fast group is on a sort of if you can't keep up, you shouldn't come kick?
Sometimes I make excuses and ride alone.
Suggestions of all kinds welcome.
I thought the title was "how to get fatter"...and I was getting ready to answer...:p
Ha ha, story of my life.
Depending on the distance and difficulty, that 5 minute gap can be a LARGE difference in speed. So chances are you're not going to get faster just by tailing around after the fast group - if you tried to do speedwork from off the back, you'd probably wear yourself out before the ride was over.
Can you ask two or three of the slower members of the fast group, who might be closer to your level, to get together with you to do speedwork on days the club doesn't ride? That would be the easiest way for me to find motivation.
Oakleaf has a great idea...
The key to getting faster is increasing your power, or strength, so that you can do more work (e.g., pedal harder or faster, maybe even in a bigger gear) while keeping your endurance the same, that is, without getting more tired than you would be otherwise.
Intervals are the classic, old school answer to building power. In the meantime, you can use one of the tricks that racers use to catch up to the pack when they get dropped, or to stay away once they get off the front. Find a couple of buddies with similar ideas, and practice your paceline skills. You can go faster as a small group with less energy by working as a rotation (a mini-paceline), and thus bridge up to and catch a group that's up the road ahead of you. You also build a little team spirit among your little group as you work together...
Tom
:(
I've basically chosen to just ride alone.
I'm faster than a recreational bike rider and slower than a cyclist.
I mean, why should I load up my bike and drive somewhere to join a group ride when I'm a mile behind the group after less than five minutes? That makes no sense, so I ride alone.
I cover okay distances. But it takes me over 2 1/2 hours to cover a distance that some of them are covering in an hour.
Sometimes I look down and I'm clipping along at 20+mph. Sometimes I look down and I'm going 12.
This is my 4th year of cycling. I have a great bike. I even like to ride up hills.
I'm just failing to progress.
I sometimes ride with a group that is much faster than me. Usually, I just hang on for dear life and hope I don't cramp up or bonk. They only really smoke me on the county line sprints, but luckily they regroup very slowly after those. Some of the guys are really nice and will give me a push now and then or drop back and help me catch back on if I'm struggling. Riding with them makes me push myself harder than I think I can. It has made me faster. It keeps getting easier to keep up with them, and they notice. If they're good guys, they will help you out when they see you are really putting in the effort. I'm sure there was a time when they were between pace groups. Maybe don't ride with them every time. Do the easier ride sometimes and the hammerfest sometimes. Try to make friends with them, and if they still don't want you there, then find a new group. If you are dropping back by 5 minutes, you should just drop back to the slower group. If you're constantly opening a gap, then you are probably not ready for this group either. If you can hang on most of the time but struggle on some hills or with some really fast surges, then you probably ought to be there, but you will need a little help sometimes. Riding solo is a good way to work on the mental aspect of suffering, but if you really want to get faster, you need to try to hang with people who are faster. It is, in my experience, the most effective way. However, they need to be just fast enough that you have a chance. They force you to put in efforts that you may not think you can do solo. If you can fight for the right wheel, you can get the benefit of a good draft that will help you save some energy over the course of the ride. If you're always way off the back, then you are really just training alone.
I'm like Slow But Steady. Except that I've been riding for 8 years. I guess I could progress if I really trained for it, but while most think I have tons of discipline, I don't want to do something that would take the fun out of cycling for me. I ride alone, with my husband (who pushes me), or with a friend who is slower than me. I do ride with one group that is purely social and has an average speed that is a bit slower than mine. But there is always a "fast" segment of this group; fast is relative here. I have the respect of the faster riders, even though most of them have been riding forever and do long distance rides on a more regular basis than me. I can climb as well as almost all of these people, so that helps my confidence.
One part of me says that I am fine for an "old lady" who didn't start until her late forties and the other part of me says I'm a slug.
The only time I really train is during the winter. And that's just so I don't die on March 1st...
Out of curiosity, what's their rationale for this attitude? Is there a no-drop policy so somebody has to stay back with you? Do you know the route and/or is it marked? Do they feel guilty or something if they drop people? Is this a formal training ride or a group of friends?Quote:
Originally Posted by ACG
The training rides in my city don't have a no-drop policy. Anybody who wants to try to stay with the group is welcome to ride, regardless of whether they can/do. Ride leaders keep an eye out for anybody who might be new or in trouble, but otherwise we're on our own if we fall behind. I, for one, don't feel guilty if someone gets dropped and on the flip side of that, I don't expect anybody to slow down for me if I'm struggling (although it's nice when they do).
I agree with aicabsolut that riding with a group that is faster than you is the easiest way to get faster, although interval training can help, too. Learning how to smartly ride in a pack helps you stay with the group too, i.e., knowing where to position yourself, knowing where and when the group tends to surge or sprint, knowing how to make the most of a draft, etc. Finally, in my experience, certain skills are important in staying with the pack as well, like cornering.
In my limited experience (getting faster so that I could ride with friends who tend to be faster than me was my raison d'etre last year), training to get faster takes a lot of patience. I made a little progress summer year before finally giving up a bit from burn out during the fall. Over the winter, I hit my spinning classes hard and rode with some faster friends on rides that were social for them but harder workouts for me. Lo and behold, when I started going to my training ride this past April, I had finally got measurably faster. I got smarter about how to do the training ride, too.
I still ride alone here and there, too. I try my best to mix up my rides, whom I ride with and at what speed. Too much of any one thing makes me cranky.
Here's a little tip I learned which is I think starting to make me a little faster, plus it strengthens my legs....
On my older bike, the Shimano hubs are almost silent when I coast along without pedaling, so whether or not I am pedaling my bike is pretty quiet.
On my new bike, when i coast the hubs make a clicking/buzzing noise. At first I didn't like it much, but then I got used to it and thought it reminded me of crickets, kind of a strangely satisfying sound. But then the crickets made me more aware of just how often I was coasting without pedaling. It was often. So now I play a little game with myself and try to keep the "crickets" quiet by pedaling as much as I can as opposed to automatically coasting whenever I can. :)
So, if you want to increase your average speed, try to avoid coasting. :cool:
What is considered fast? How Fast do you want to be?
That's what I'd like to know too. I consider myself a slower rider, I'm comfortable around 20 miles per hour on flats with a group. When I ride alone, which is the majority of the time I hang around 18 mph or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclesome
'Fast' is very different for different people depending on lots of factors, but how flat or hilly the area they ride in will be a major factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclesome
In general, someone who lives in Florida is going to be way faster than someone who lives in hilly parts of Vermont, all other factors being equal.
It doesn't really matter how fast "fast" is. The OP just wanted to get faster so that she can hang with group A, because group B doesn't really challenge her. No matter where your starting point is, I will still say that intervals and plain old time on the bike will help your fitness and speed improve, but riding with faster people is the quickest and most effective way to really challenge yourself so that you see some speed improvements sooner. "Sooner" may still mean months, which is why you don't necessarily want to ride with the superfast crowd all the time--that gets demoralizing. But it is good for you if you want to get faster. You just need to pick a group that you can *almost* hang with--whether everyone would consider them "fast" is irrelevant. They are just that one step faster than you at that time. Maybe it's the "A" level group, maybe not.
I have a friend and he is very tall and also very nice. I have confided in him that I want to get faster so what we do is we ride... he is waaaaaaaaaay faster than I am but he creates the most beautiful draft. If I want to stay in that sweet draft I have to pay attention and work very hard sometimes, then I get to rest a bit as I draft off of him. If he drops me, he always slows down and picks me back up again, he knows his job is to keep me going and motivated and he's nice enough to indulge me. My goal is to ride with him once a week like this, then maybe one day I'll be able to hang out with the big kids. (I'm stuck between groups as well).
Or, a snowbird like me will find that her flat winter rides average 5-6 mph faster than her hilly summer rides, without an appreciable change in strength :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl
The faster "fast" is, the more the 'little' things matter, such as gear and aerodynamics.
One other suggestion I have to help you stay up with the faster group is to warm up before the ride. At least for me, that makes a huge difference in eing able to keep up on group rides. My ideal warm up is--for whatever reason--9 miles. Even if I can just get 4 or 5 miles in, however, I do much better and my legs thank me for it.
It's the only thing I don't like about the sport (other than the whole starting waaaay too early in the morning thing) is the layering of "I ride ___ mph and 35 mile rides and you ride ____ mph and 38 mile rides so we can't ride together"
Most of us ride too slow .... and too fast. Fast people rarely slow down or do recovery work, slow folks (self included) rarely challenge ourselves to kick it up a notch.
I will never be fast but I gain strength and endurance by trying. Find a ride with a faster group that you know the route. If you get dropped circle back and meet them for the recovery meal. Just start with them and hang on as long as you can. Maybe its 5 minutes, then 10 then 15 then .... can you find another rider in your pace to do this with you for company?
Many "no drop" rides are slower pace, faster rides are "keep up or else". Sometimes you have to make your own fast ride with a drop option. As long as you're safe that is know the way back to the coffee shop.
I dont' know if you are riding on the road or mtn biking, but for me, I just ride. I ride with some guys that are just crazy fast, but I go at my own pace. Compete against yourself, set goals based on YOU not THEM. If you are shooting to maintain 12 mph then shoot for that. Don't try to do something like 'keep up with them' if they are doing 20 mph and you can barely do 15 mph (and I say this in MY frame of reference!!!) I ride in a time trial once a month (with a commuter bike with baskets and all! talk about funny!) and it's to compete against me. *I* want to become better. And my goal for that is to 'just be faster than last month'. So it doesn't matter how slow I am. And in a time trial...ha...no one is going to wait for you!
Riding with a slower group won't make you faster. Or it didn't make me faster.
What I do is, for a ride with people I know are going to dust me, I tell them right away "I'm going to probably hang behind so don't worry about me. You don't have to keep stopping. Just yell when you are making a confusing turn." If it's a road ride I get a map ahead of time and it's alot different than mtn biking. So if they want to stop and wait for me, I know I told them to not do that. And what you'll find is that they stop with the intent of 'waiting for you' when really they are looking for a quick breather (haha!). Another thing that made me faster is NOT to stop with them. I just keep riding. And soon people get the idea that I am not stopping.
Either case, measure your 'getting faster' against yourself. I've been making a huge mistake on the East coast by trying to figure out how well I ride compared to others. That's not the right thing to do because you'll never progress. You look at some of the top athletes and they all are focused on their PRs, not beating someone else. Their goals just happen to blow the doors off of everyone else's time.
So if it's a ride that is established, take your base time and then try and shave some time off of it. Do you have a bike computer? That also is what made me faster, I could see how fast I was going and soon realized, like Zen said, there was much coasting going on!
Just my two cents. Helps me realize what's important. It took me a while to realize this and it's helped me a lot. Not only did it make me 'ease up' on myself but it also made me assert myself as to my ability (aka knowing what I am capable of).
As always the TE's have offered me wonderful advice. Thank you
My group has a no drop policy.
However, the guys who want to do the faster ride have commented that if you can't keep up, maybe you should bail out, go home or pick a ride more suitable. I have opted to ride the fast ride when I know some of my friends are going, they won't drop me and will work with me.
I want to keep my skills up which is why I'm trying so hard.
It has now gotten to the point that a few of us are working on an in-between rides.
Because I work a 9-5 job. I can only ride twice during the week to train.
So thanks again, all your suggestions have been great to read.
What about evening rides during the week? There's still daylight. Short 1-1.5 hr rides are a good time to work on interval training. Where do the other cyclists in your area go after work? Are there any weekday rides? There must be something else you can make it to at least once a week. That will help. Then there's the early morning training ride, but I like my sleep too much for that :p, but there may be some small groups who train then. You don't have to train with others before or after work, but if you find some buddies, then you can get information on where it's safe to ride during the commuting hours.
Sounds rude. I think you need to find another group :rolleyes: :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ACG
Sheesh, really? :( That's just mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by ACG
That doesn't sound 'no drop' to me! :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by ACG
What a perfect thread for this newbie to read!
I was just reading a listing of group rides in my area, and kept seeing the phrase "no drop" and had no idea what it meant. Their slowest group though was 12-15 mph, and I don't think I'm there yet (probably more like 10-12).
So I'm guessing, "no drop" means that one poor soul would have to lag behind with me? I'll probably keep training until I can get to an average of 12 MPH (with hills included). Then maybe I'll look toward a "slow group".
Depending on how many hills you face (and how slowly you go on the hills), you can probably keep up with that group. Remember that with the benefit of the draft, it is much easier (takes less energy) to maintain speeds a bit higher than you'd be able to on your own. Although you may be expected to take a pull, you really don't have to as a newbie--you can just sit in the group or pull off quickly when you get to the front. So if you think you could make it on the low end of the pace solo, you should have no problem with a group. I just threw that in there about hills, because you won't get nearly the same benefit of drafting uphill at a slow pace as you do on the flats, but you may get some (if you can really stick on someone's wheel). So, if you have a lot of hills to deal with, then the group could be a struggle. Alternatively, if there aren't that many tough hills, you'd probably find that a no-drop group like that will regroup at the top of the bigger, longer climbs, because the group will inevitably be split up. In that case, you shouldn't worry about joining the group either.Quote:
Originally Posted by DebTX
aicabsolut wrote:
Depending on how many hills you face (and how slowly you go on the hills), you can probably keep up with that group. Remember that with the benefit of the draft, it is much easier (takes less energy) to maintain speeds a bit higher than you'd be able to on your own. Although you may be expected to take a pull, you really don't have to as a newbie
In the clubs I've been in, the beginer groups (cruzers, novice, 'tweeners") don't form pace lines that give you the bennies of drafting. I've been riding for a few years now and have never felt confidnet enough to get close enough to benefit from someone's pull.
However, don't feel like you can't join a group because some poor person is going to have to wait with you. They volunteer to do that, and often are the kind of people who enjoy watching newer riders develop. I think that one of the best ways to get your speed up to that first threshold of 12mph is a group. The comradery, the advise, the conversation distracting you from your biking worries, all help you get more confident.
Barbara