Pondering A New Bike

I said I wouldn't get a new one...but I am considering it nonetheless:eek: Silver will have substantial influence on this, but in big decisions, sometimes it's good to have objective input from knowledgeable friends:rolleyes:

Although this post is long, the key question is whether I risk more than I may gain by changing.

First: I LOVE my 49cm Lemond Reno with RaceXLite wheels. I've got about 4,000 miles on it in 18 months and I've never had a blister, ache, or pain that I would attribute to the bike.

Initial LBS Recommendation is a Trek Madone 5.2 or Madone 5.6...and they did a perfect job in fitting me and steering me to the Lemond (even though I went in to buy a Trek Pilot).

Concerns:
- Clearly, the geometry of the Reno suits my body. Will a change in geometry impact my comfort substantially? What considerations should I anticipate?
- The current Madone will cut about 6 pounds off the Reno's weight (and I weigh in the 160's). Is a 4% combined weight reduction (along with my continued weight loss) a motivating consideration or just 'nice but not relevant'?
- Will I feel a material impact with better components?
- If I have a choice of ultegra SL or Durace, should it matter?

Finally, does anyone know what Trek's '09 price increase will be? Rumors are it will be 'substantial' and that may impact my decision as well...

Goals:
My goal for next year is to compete in an endurance competition.

I think if you are planning any kind of competition, the weight is significant factor.

Since Trek makes (made) both bikes what are the significant differences in the geometry? I would think that the Madone has a more extreme race position, but I could be wrong about that. But if that is the case, is that a position you want for long distances?

Gotta go take a shower. I'm disgusting right now. :rolleyes:

If you like the LeMond geometry, it might be worth looking at the carbon frames in their line--Versailles, Buenos Aires, Zurich, Victoire, and Tete de Course.

If I could get my hands on an '04-'06 Victoire (ti and carbon) in my size, I'd be all over it. :D

I went from a WSD Lemond Reno to a Specialized Ruby. I love it. I love my Reno too, it fit so well. what I really like about the Ruby is that I don't feel sore in my neck the next day from road chatter. The all carbon is nice. I like that I can race it for now but it's also comfy for the long haul

I have 105 components but it's a 2007 and I really think the 105s are very good, comparable to an older ultegra. i will upgrade some in time. I needed the WSD and the handlebars on the Ruby are great. I can reach the breaks fully in the drops, which I couldn't do on the Reno. I considered getting the men's version (roubaix) but glad I went w/the Ruby.

All the bike shops are saying they have seen the '09 prices and it is a big jump. I think Running Mommy even said that.

The geometry might make a difference, the Madone is more aggressive but I see plenty of people happily knocking out centuries on them. DH rides a super racey bike for 100+ miles and is good but then again he is a glutton for self inflicted pain.

Ultegra vs. Dura Ace. Both are going to be smooth, I think I read that actually the Ultegra SL is as good as DA. Maybe in Bicycling magazine? DH is rushing me to leave but I am pretty sure that was the article.

Silver and I have been discussing aggressive geometry.

My benchmark was last week at RAIN.

Over the course of 160 miles, without realizing it, my handlebars dropped nearly 1 inch...and I rode a good portion comfortably in the drops.

So, I'm thinking I can take it...???

I don't know about Trek, but 2009 prices could increase in some brands close to 20% from what I've heard.

1) If you can get the right fit on the Madone and already have the Reno set up more aggressively than you did to start, I think you can probably adapt to the Madone just fine. It could help you in endurance rides, too. For example, the philosophy behind the Specialized Roubaix is to make a performance bike that helps reduce rider fatigue. So if you can get enough comfort with the Madone plus the Madone's increased performance, you may save watts riding that bike plus get a smooth ride, albeit with a more aggressive body position. If your back can take it, you may find that the better bike will be just as easy to ride in endurance competition as it is in a regular road race.

2 and 3) You WILL notice the 6 lb difference. You will notice the better, snappier ride of the Madone carbon frame. It will corner better, climb better, and accelerate better. As for upgrading components in general, I haven't heard any of my friends say they like Ultegra or Dura-Ace as much as their older Tiagra or 105 groups. The lower groups may be perfectly adequate, but there is a reason the other stuff is better. Crisper shifting. Less tuning necessary. Weight savings. More ergonomic feel or ease of use. How much you appreciate an upgrade is personal to you. I believe you will like better stuff, but that you will notice the change in the frame and overall bike weight a lot more.

4) Ultegra-SL has pretty much the same functionality as DA, but is slightly heavier (but slightly lighter than regular Ultegra). At least I'm assuming you mean 2008 DA. 2009 DA is another animal, and is supposedly "the best," but you will need to buy 2009 DA chains and cassettes for best performance (though I hear that the chain wrap issue may just be Shimano blowing smoke), which can add up for sure. So, for 2008 DA vs U-SL, it's kind of a toss-up. I'd see what kind of deals you could get for either build, or do a mix of the two. Like, go with SL brakes but DA shifters. Between the 2, there's not as big of a jump as between regular Ultegra and DA.

I never finished my point about the Madone...
I think you can get a comfy set up on the Madone as you did the Reno. If it were me, I'd probably just go w/the Ultegra as I'm not super obsessed with grams of weight and I think the diff b/t the Ultegra and DA would be negligible. But that's just my opinion of course!

I know two folks who just recently purchased Madone 5.2's.
Both found the compact crankset required a bit of adjusting to. One came from a standard crank, the other from a triple - the former wondered about hill climbing, and as someone who used to mark him up hills, I can tell you he know FLIES up them! The latter is training for a tri and is worried about top-end (and may replace the cassette with an 11).
Both are delighted with the fit and performance of the bikes. Of course, I never see them anymore, because they are now at the front of the group! :rolleyes:
So....there's some experiences of others...for whatever that's good for you.
RE: Ultegra SL vs. DuraAce. Both are awesome groups. The SL is nearly on par performance-wise with the DA, a whisker heavier and cheaper to boot. If you are dropping nearly 6 pounds (wow!) with a new bike, I'd say you can save a few bucks with the Ultegra SL components and still be quite happy with the increased performance and lighter weight, relative to your older bike.
My $0.02

Madone of course! The geometry differs from LeMond, but I'm guess your LBS could set one but nearly identical to your LeMond. From my limited rides on Kim's 5.1, the frame is AWESOME! Keep your Reno for a rain bike, I'm guessing you'll love carbon.

That said, there are tons of great bikes out there. Even though I've never ridden one, I would have a Cervelo R3 near the top of my list. The new Specialized Roubaix is suppose to be killer - see lastest Bicycling Mag. I also like the idea of custom and TI. We have Roark near Indy, building some beautiful TI bikes, also LiteSpeed has a custom group now (I forget the name).

Your RAIN performance was EPIC, and it's not about the bike, but it's what you do and enjoy, if you have the means why not ride a great bike. I still enjoy my Madone, I like to clean it and very much enjoy riding it. Yes it cost 3 times the Cannondale it replaced, but why not. I loved the Cannondale as well, but almost always grabbed the Madone when going for a ride.

Bike Shopping = BIG FUN! Take your time and have a blast.

Re: racing geometry. I don't know anything about the Lemond geometry so can't give you a comparision between that and the Madone but I will add this. My hubby bought the Madone 5.2 because it was LESS aggressive than some of the other bikes he'd tried. It was similar to the Roubaix and the Cervelo RS (or was it the R3? - I can't remember but one of them is less aggressive than the other.) My understanding is that the women's Madone 5.1 is a more aggressive bike than the Madone 5.2. My DH didn't want a bike that had him bent over so far because of back problems and that's why he liked the fit of the Madone, whereas I wanted a more aggressive bike.

6 lbs is a LOT of weight imho.

Dear Mr. Silver,

The bike choices youare looking are all very wonderful. Madone is a good bike so is Tete de Course. You do have to keep in mind of Le Monde, as they are breaking their relationship with Trek and what will happen to them few years down the road.

Ultegra SL and D/A will perform about the same. Since you are not racing, go with SL. Its just as good. Some race teams use SL cause, well its cheaper :).

At your weight and amount of riding you want to do, keep in mind about the wheels. Don't go for the16 spoke (or less) wheels. They are meant for race use only and not for daily training ride. Go with 28 hole or 32 hole wheels. Front wheel with 2x or even 3x crossing and rear shoud be 3x. They are stonger, last longer and have better compliance over rough surface. meaning smoother riding.

6 pounds lighter that is a lot... I think we have a making of new bike weight junkie. ;)

Its always fun to dream what you are going to buy so enjoy and make it last as long as you want.

personally, I'm looking at Storck(CD 1.0), Ridley(helium or Damacles), Look (585 ultra), Colnago (C50), Pinarello (sp?? new on my list dogma or prince), and few others. I'm rather euro-centric lately :D :D

smilingcat

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Originally Posted by smilingcat

6 pounds lighter that is a lot... I think we have a making of new bike weight junkie. ;)

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How appropriate...I'm married to one of those!

Of course, she weighs about what she did when we met 25 years ago...so bike weight really matters to her!

I have no wisdom to share, but please keep us posted on the shopping (a "shopping diary" post?) so we may all shop vicariously through you.

Last night a friend was telling me about the new Shimano Dura Ace gruppo (Dura Ace 7900). If that is placed on a new bike, the price will soar: it is listed at $2600, over $800 above DA 7800 or Campagnolo Record (Competitive Cyclist has a good summary table and Cycling News has a review).

I know this is not true in the Silver household, but I have a certain aversion to Trek (may have to do with excessive TV hype). If you have a chance, look at Scott bikes. I have two friends who ride Scott, one a Scott Addict, the other one a Scott CR1, and love their bikes.

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Originally Posted by pll

Last night a friend was telling me about the new Shimano Dura Ace gruppo (Dura Ace 7900). If that is placed on a new bike, the price will soar: it is listed at $2600, over $800 above DA 7800 or Campagnolo Record (Competitive Cyclist has a good summary table and Cycling News has a review).

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More expensive, yes, but sounds OH SO NICE! I can't wait for a few years from now when it gets cheaper...

My thoughts and opinions:

Mr. Silver... sounds to me like you are ready for a new, lighter bike. Don't forget that bike weight matters even for heavier people because of the easier acceleration of a light bike. The less weight close to the ground, the better. Componentry makes a difference too. The crisper and easier the shifting, the easier the ride.

I would try to look at bikes with similar geometry to your current one. Don't get hung up on a specific brand this early in the game. I second the vote for checking on Scott. My husband absolutely adores his 2006 CR1 SL.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Silver

I said I wouldn't get a new one...but I am considering it nonetheless:eek: Silver will have substantial influence on this, but in big decisions, sometimes it's good to have objective input from knowledgeable friends:rolleyes:

Although this post is long, the key question is whether I risk more than I may gain by changing.

First: I LOVE my 49cm Lemond Reno with RaceXLite wheels. I've got about 4,000 miles on it in 18 months and I've never had a blister, ache, or pain that I would attribute to the bike.

Initial LBS Recommendation is a Trek Madone 5.2 or Madone 5.6...and they did a perfect job in fitting me and steering me to the Lemond (even though I went in to buy a Trek Pilot).

Concerns:
- Clearly, the geometry of the Reno suits my body. Will a change in geometry impact my comfort substantially? What considerations should I anticipate?
- The current Madone will cut about 6 pounds off the Reno's weight (and I weigh in the 160's). Is a 4% combined weight reduction (along with my continued weight loss) a motivating consideration or just 'nice but not relevant'?
- Will I feel a material impact with better components?
- If I have a choice of ultegra SL or Durace, should it matter?

Finally, does anyone know what Trek's '09 price increase will be? Rumors are it will be 'substantial' and that may impact my decision as well...

Goals:
My goal for next year is to compete in an endurance competition.

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My BF has a Madone 5.6 and let me ride it on our first two rides. I loved it! (It still doesnt make him faster than me on his Trek 2300 but hehe oh well) It is super light and very smooth. In fact I am considering a WSD Trek Madone 5.2 for myself. I dont know about your other questions but good luck!

Today Fred at the LBS said he's recommending Madone 5.5; doesn't recommend 5.5 Pro...to my surprise (darn it, I wanted the yellow bike!)

Hmmm...:rolleyes:

5.5 = NICE!

Great choice, looks great plus a good price point and you can keep you new wheels and stick the Race Lites on the LeMond.

Does he have one to ride?

I agree, the non-pro would likely be the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Mr. SR500

Does he have one to ride?

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Are you kidding? In a 50cm????:rolleyes:

I have this problem with suits too!

Hey Mr. Silver...

Ohhhh.... have fun bike shopping! I went through this in the late fall, and given how much you love you LeMond, I have another reccommendation for you... try riding one of the specialized bikes...the Roubaix or the Tarmac. I liked the LeMonds that I test rode because of how zippy they were and how they responded to me... while the Madone was a really smooth ride, I didn't get the same responsivness from it. Now the Specialized bikes... perfect blend of smoothness and zippienes. At least for me. Also, my bike shop (which deals in Treks, LeMonds, and Specialized) said that I got the best bang for my buck with the Specialized in terms of components and such.

Now you may LOVE the Madone, but always worth trying something else too :-)

Have fun, and keep us up to date!
Ellen

Have fun shopping, Mr. Silver!

I think we're a bit similar in that I've also been riding for about 18 months and I have about 4,500 miles on my bike. I'm starting to shop for an upgrade too, and although it's fun, it's also overwhelming. There are soooooo many bikes to choose from...how do you decide? Every bike shop I go to recommends something different, which is good I guess, but also confusing. I'm on a budget, so one shop tells me to go with full carbon and 105 and the next tells me to forego the full carbon and get Ultegra. I'm trying to figure out what's most important to me and what my goals are so I can choose the right combination. It sounds like you have that part pretty well figured out. Now the perfect bike just needs to jump out at you. Good luck to you in your search...I hope you find exactly what you're looking for!

Mr. S - no advice to offer, except to say wow on the progress you've made.

RolliePollie- Components wear out, and you can always upgrade them. Not so with the frame.

CA

Rollie- I was in the same boat and opted for the 105 and carbon instead of Alum/Carbon fork and Ultegra. I do have the Ultegra rear deraileur. Anyway, my bike shifts very smooth and I am happy. Would full Ultegra be better? Probably. Am I disappointed in my decision? Not at all. My old bike was Sora, so this is a nice upgrade for me. As parts wear out or budget allows I will eventually make her full Ultegra. I love my carbon frame though :).

Update:
I decided that the Dura Ace/Ultegra SL difference probably wasn't worth the $800 difference, at least to me.

But, the Madone 5.2 is not currently available.

Trying to get the 5.6 down to a price point that I'm able to swallow, I asked them to throw in the Dura Ace pedals...and they offered 105's instead.

So, we're a set of pedals away from making the deal, but I'm already feeling that the purchase is a little excessive...

Congrats, I assume you mean 5.5, Sweat!

Hold out for the pedals! Or shop around a bit and see what another dealer might do - road bike sales typically slow down now (maybe a little bump with the tour, but Spring is road bike buying time). Also new models are usually out in August, so something else to consider. Finally, if you have not ridden it, will he give you a refund if you don't like it or want something different?

P.S. What does Silver say about all this?

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Originally Posted by Mr. SR500

P.S. What does Silver say about all this?

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Silver is supportive and encouraging...I think she doesn't understand why I'm holding out...but this is an expensive impulse

Yep, we went to the LBS and ordered the Madone 5.5 with full Dura Ace this morning:cool:

I hope it will arrive this week:D

I hope to have pics this weekend!;)

I got nervous about the upcoming price increase (whether it's 4% or 20%, it's still a lot of $) and possible delays getting my short size once the new models are released...so I took the plunge.

Maybe one of the more indulgent things I've done:o...(the avatar isn't an indulgence, it's an enjoyable investment:rolleyes:)

Woo hoo! Good for you!

Sweet!

I'm guessing you'll have it Thurs/Fri!

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Originally Posted by bboston88

I never finished my point about the Madone...
I think you can get a comfy set up on the Madone as you did the Reno. If it were me, I'd probably just go w/the Ultegra as I'm not super obsessed with grams of weight and I think the diff b/t the Ultegra and DA would be negligible. But that's just my opinion of course!

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I used to think that the difference between Ultegra and Dura Ace was negligible, but that is not true. The Dura Ace does perform better; but the question is does it perform enough better to justify the cost? I got my Dura Ace for a considerable discount so that is why I bought it. Before I had a deal, I always bought Ultegra.

spoke

Woops didn't see the last posts where you bought and decided on Dura Ace. You will love it Mr. Silver.

spoke

spoke, I agree...but since the 5.2 wasn't available in my size and I risked a price increase and delays, I went ahead...

Patience is a virtue that 6billion people on earth have more of than me...

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Originally Posted by Mr. Silver

Yep, we went to the LBS and ordered the Madone 5.5 with full Dura Ace this morning:cool:

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WooHoo! Congrats.

Congratulations!! You will love the new ride - looking forward to the pictures:)