Clipless pedals: Frogs vs. SPDs

I'm ready to go clipless.:eek:

My shoes are SPD compatible with a recessed cleat, my preference because we like to get off and walk or enter a place to eat.

I've read a lot of raves here for Frogs, but when I mentioned that at the LBS all the guys pushed SPDs. No doubt they carry them there and not the frogs.

I want easy in, easy out, easy to maintain, and they must look good on my little black bike. :) We ride in traffic so I need to be able to easily disengage without much thought and with a lot of ease.

So why do so many of you like Frogs so much?

Because they do all of those things, and have no moving parts to fuss with! :p
Plus they have 20 degress of float (which can be very nice for some women's knees) and are passive release (very very easy to get out of).

As Gary Cooper would say, "yep".

I loved SPDs too, but my knees hated them. I spent several years on Frogs, pretty happy. Recently switched to Quattros because I wanted a little less float and a little more platform, but I still think Frogs are dandy too.

I just had a commuter built up and my mechanic was pushing Eggbeaters. I was leery because I ride Speedplay X2s on my roadie, and I love the float and most of all the effortless unclipping.

I've used the mountain and road SPDs, and with both I felt like I was damaging my knee while unclipping. Even on the lowest tension setting.

Anyway, I was down to Frogs and Eggbeaters, and decided I'd listen to my mechanic because I could return the pedals if I didn't like them. The verdict after not many rides is that they are very easy to unclip from and I like that the cleat is super small--I think the Frogs cleat is a bit bigger and sometimes you need to trim your soles to get them to fit/work properly.

OK, I hope I won't appear stupid, but what is "degree of float"? My pedals are fairly loose so I can get out of the easy enough, but my toes are starting to get numb after 20 miles, and my knees are getting a little tender from a prior running injury.
My pedals are clipless on one side and a regular pedal on the other side.

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Originally Posted by beccaB

OK, I hope I won't appear stupid, but what is "degree of float"?

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Float means you can move your heel side-to-side (well, more pivoting around the pedal) without coming unclipped. If your pedal doesn't have float, your foot (and, by extension, knee) is locked in place.

Most pedals that have float do not have "free float" and will encourage your foot to go back to the center position. Speedplay pedals have free float, so your foot can move freely and (hopefully) not torque your knee.

I can clip out of the Speedplay x5's easily enough. I'm guessing that the other Speedplay pedals are similar since they have the same shape. But I have trouble clipping in because there's no "bumper" or physical feedback to tell me my foot it in the right position.

I can clip into the Look Keo's fine, but for some reason the foot motion required to get out isn't working for me. I had this same issue with a set of Shimano pedals.

So what I need is the Speedplay shape with some sort of bumper to get in.
Does this exist in real life?

I like Frogs cuz I can wear sweet mtb shoes. None of that ice skating business for me, please. ;)

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Originally Posted by dachshund

I can clip out of the Speedplay x5's easily enough. I'm guessing that the other Speedplay pedals are similar since they have the same shape. But I have trouble clipping in because there's no "bumper" or physical feedback to tell me my foot it in the right position.

I can clip into the Look Keo's fine, but for some reason the foot motion required to get out isn't working for me. I had this same issue with a set of Shimano pedals.

So what I need is the Speedplay shape with some sort of bumper to get in.
Does this exist in real life?

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With Speedplay X pedals you basically line your foot to the pedal and step down. I do it so intuitively that I don't even think about it or feel for the pedal.

If it's to hard to clip in check to see if you have dirt between the spring and the plastic edge. Screws that are too tight can also cause clipping in problems. Finally, be sure to lube with white lightning or other lubes recommended by Speedplay, especially when new.

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Originally Posted by sundial

I like Frogs cuz I can wear sweet mtb shoes. None of that ice skating business for me, please. ;)

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Cleat covers protect the cleats and allow walking without slipping or sliding.

I still prefer MTB shoes

I actually like to walk in my road shoes and Look cleats...

I am also new to clipping-in. I currently have some low-end Shimano pedals where both sides can be used for clipping in or riding with regular shoes. I'm having issues with knee pain, so I'm interested in alternatives. What would you recommend if I want to have the choice of using my bike shoes with cleats or regular shoes? The Frogs that I've looked at seem to be strictly for clipping in.

Thanks.
tb

How about a Wellgo platform pedal? I have a set on my mtb and Frogs on my road bike.

The Wellgo look like strictly "regular shoes" pedals. Is this right?

I'd like to be able to either clip or not with the same pedal. I'm trying to outfit my commuter bike. When I'm commuting to work (16 miles), I want to clip. When I'm running out to do errands (1-2 miles), I want to be able to wear whatever shoes I happen to have on.

Thanks!
tpb

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Originally Posted by tpb

The Wellgo look like strictly "regular shoes" pedals. Is this right?

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I have used my mtb shoes with it. I primarily wear these so I can hike.

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Originally Posted by Kathi

With Speedplay X pedals you basically line your foot to the pedal and step down. I do it so intuitively that I don't even think about it or feel for the pedal.

If it's to hard to clip in check to see if you have dirt between the spring and the plastic edge. Screws that are too tight can also cause clipping in problems. Finally, be sure to lube with white lightning or other lubes recommended by Speedplay, especially when new.

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Thanks, I have checked my cleats. The "debris" is in my head, not in the cleat. :rolleyes: I can't accurately place my foot in the right spot every time. When I put my foot in the right spot, it clicks in fine. I love the speedplays because they're so simple. I guess I'll put them back on and practice practice.

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Originally Posted by tpb

I am also new to clipping-in. I currently have some low-end Shimano pedals where both sides can be used for clipping in or riding with regular shoes. I'm having issues with knee pain, so I'm interested in alternatives. What would you recommend if I want to have the choice of using my bike shoes with cleats or regular shoes? The Frogs that I've looked at seem to be strictly for clipping in.

Thanks.
tb

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I'm having some knee "tenderness" Don't want to call it pain exactly, that would admit that I'm "old" and or falling apart because I'm already in physical therapy for torn rotator cuff.
That's why I'm kinda thinkin' about new pedals. I don't think it's the twisting out of the pedal that's bothering me though. I think it's the old runners knee acting up with the increased distance and all those revolutions=torque.
I'm also using low end shimano pedals that I can use with cleats on one side and regular shoes on the other.
Would it help to try a different Pedal? The folks at Terry said it might help to raise the seat a little, and the PT says to do stretching exercises for the gastroc and hamstrings.

I currently am using SPD pedals and I love them but evidently the new set does not like my ankle. The set I have on my old bike has a lot of float and my foot/ankle is able to move as it wished. When I ride my new bike with a better set of SPD pedals I develop tendinitis in my right ankle - no enough float. My bike fitter recommended I locate an "old style" Look pedal or Shimano SPD-SL Pd-540's. I have some reservation about these pedals (I"ll admit I love my SPD's but he can't put the shims in that I require hence the Look/shimano suggestions). After reading what has been posted here I'm curious, can shims be used with the cleats required for Frogs?

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Originally Posted by Yen

I'm ready to go clipless.:eek:

My shoes are SPD compatible with a recessed cleat, my preference because we like to get off and walk or enter a place to eat.

I've read a lot of raves here for Frogs, but when I mentioned that at the LBS all the guys pushed SPDs. No doubt they carry them there and not the frogs.

I want easy in, easy out, easy to maintain, and they must look good on my little black bike. :) We ride in traffic so I need to be able to easily disengage without much thought and with a lot of ease.

So why do so many of you like Frogs so much?

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Glad to hear you are ready to try clipless. I fought DH for a long time before breaking down and making the move myself. At this point I wouldn't want to give up my clipless.

I started with Speedplay Zeros and was happy with them - but have converted to Frogs. As some others mentioned above, my primary reason for switching to Frogs was to make it easier to walk in the mtn shoes. Not just easier to walk, but easier to put my foot down when I stop. With the Zeros, I was sometimes afraid that the cleat would slide on the pavement rather than providing stable support for my foot. The Frogs also seem to release a little faster which can be important in traffic.

Bottomline - Frogs are both comfortable and easy in/out. They get my vote.

Man, I love my eggbeaters...

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Originally Posted by makbike

I currently am using SPD pedals and I love them but evidently the new set does not like my ankle. The set I have on my old bike has a lot of float and my foot/ankle is able to move as it wished. When I ride my new bike with a better set of SPD pedals I develop tendinitis in my right ankle - no enough float. My bike fitter recommended I locate an "old style" Look pedal or Shimano SPD-SL Pd-540's. I have some reservation about these pedals (I"ll admit I love my SPD's but he can't put the shims in that I require hence the Look/shimano suggestions). After reading what has been posted here I'm curious, can shims be used with the cleats required for Frogs?

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If you're talking about these http://www.bikefit.com/ according to their website the answer is yes. I have these between my Sidi shoes and Speedplay X cleats. I was in my LBS today and the bike fitter said he would do it for me on my Frogs.

If you need shims for leg length discrepency the answer is yes.
http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?f...me.merchandise

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Originally Posted by tpb

I am also new to clipping-in. I currently have some low-end Shimano pedals where both sides can be used for clipping in or riding with regular shoes. I'm having issues with knee pain, so I'm interested in alternatives. What would you recommend if I want to have the choice of using my bike shoes with cleats or regular shoes? The Frogs that I've looked at seem to be strictly for clipping in.

Thanks.
tb

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Speedplay has a platform pedal that clips over the road pedal. It's really nice because they allow the foot to "float" unlike many platform pedals that still lock your foot into a specific position.

http://www.speedplay.com/index.cfm?f...me.merchandise

I am new to clipless petals so the bike shop recommended the speedplay frog peddles because they are the easist to learn. I really like them and they were easy to learn to get in and out of.

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Originally Posted by KatyLady

...my primary reason for switching to Frogs was to make it easier to walk in the mtn shoes. Not just easier to walk, but easier to put my foot down when I stop. With the Zeros, I was sometimes afraid that the cleat would slide on the pavement rather than providing stable support for my foot. The Frogs also seem to release a little faster which can be important in traffic.

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I won the Chinese Split award when I unclipped from the Zeros.

Be careful. Sometimes too much float isn't good.

I am going to be selling my Frog Speedplays.

I bought them in May. I was using Shimano spd's for years and once and a while I'd have a twinge in my left knee, not all that bad. I thought I'd try the Frogs. At first they were fine and my knee felt good. But for this season and when I first got the pedals I was commuting to work along a very flat route, (have to drive many miles to get to start point) and hadn't done much riding on them here where I live which is hillier.

I then did a couple of rides here and all hell broke loose using those pedals. The frogs have way too much float for me, and wreacked havoc with my knees, ankles, and achilles tendon all at the same time. I don't always sit hills - I also stand in the pedals and really swing that bike back and forth so that doesn't help either.

I had just about every ailment that Andy Pruitt lists as a possible cause for too much float, and I was off the bike for 7 days. Ankles, achilles, left side of knee, right side of knee, top, below, behind - it was ridiculous. At first I thought I had joint pain flare-up, something I've been trying to address. But this was different. It was tendons and muscles, not joints. It happened again when I got back on the bike. Ouch.

So instead of putting back on the spd's I decided to treat myself to my own birthday present. For 23 years always used mt shoes and never had a really good pair of road shoes. I just bought myself a pair of carbon road shoes with leather uppers. I just couldn't spend $350-$400 for Sidi's, but I found a beautiful pair of carbon shoes by Specialized for $225. They are so darn comfortable, so much more than the mt shoes. There's room for my feet to expand cause they swell, and the leather will stretch. I decided on a platform pedal for greater surface as I was getting hotfoot too, and went with Look Keo's. I've always been fine with clipping in and out so none of that is a problem. They have 4.5 d float and that seems to do the trick. They have another set of cleats that go up to 9 d but I don't think I need it.

Actually, the 2008 Look cleats have grippy things on them. I was walking on wood floors, cement floor, stairs, and concrete and wasn't slipping.

What a difference though with the carbon shoes! The pedaling efficiency I've experienced compared to the mt shoes and frogs are like night and day. My foot feels much more stable. I think this setup will do the trick. Boy, are good shoes important. The Specialized I have has a varus wedge and metatarsal button too.

Thanks everyone. I still have not yet decided which pedals to get, but today I put down a deposit on a pair of Sidi Dominator 5. I needed to replace my current pair of new MTB shoes because they were squeezing my right toes something aweful. I was warned to not try on Sidi (due to the price) but after the first 3 pair of other brand didn't feel right, I tried on the Sidis. There was no looking back. Once I found my size it was like a pair of slippers on my feet.

According to the LBS, they are compatible with any SPD-type pedal.

I'll wait until I actually have the shoes in hand before I start shopping for the pedals. I'll get those at a different LBS where they will put me on a trainer in the shoes and let me practice until I am comfortable, then ride in the street around the store.

Yen, just fyi, I have had Frogs on my Sidi Dominators also, and am about to put Quattros on the Dominators. So those two types of cleats can also be used--you just have to carve a little off the bottom of the shoes, and the LBS can tell you how to do that.

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Originally Posted by mudmucker

Be careful. Sometimes too much float isn't good.

I am going to be selling my Frog Speedplays.

I bought them in May. I was using Shimano spd's for years and once and a while I'd have a twinge in my left knee, not all that bad. I thought I'd try the Frogs. At first they were fine and my knee felt good. But for this season and when I first got the pedals I was commuting to work along a very flat route, (have to drive many miles to get to start point) and hadn't done much riding on them here where I live which is hillier.

I then did a couple of rides here and all hell broke loose using those pedals. The frogs have way too much float for me, and wreacked havoc with my knees, ankles, and achilles tendon all at the same time. I don't always sit hills - I also stand in the pedals and really swing that bike back and forth so that doesn't help either.

I had just about every ailment that Andy Pruitt lists as a possible cause for too much float, and I was off the bike for 7 days. Ankles, achilles, left side of knee, right side of knee, top, below, behind - it was ridiculous. At first I thought I had joint pain flare-up, something I've been trying to address. But this was different. It was tendons and muscles, not joints. It happened again when I got back on the bike. Ouch.

So instead of putting back on the spd's I decided to treat myself to my own birthday present. For 23 years always used mt shoes and never had a really good pair of road shoes. I just bought myself a pair of carbon road shoes with leather uppers. I just couldn't spend $350-$400 for Sidi's, but I found a beautiful pair of carbon shoes by Specialized for $225. They are so darn comfortable, so much more than the mt shoes. There's room for my feet to expand cause they swell, and the leather will stretch. I decided on a platform pedal for greater surface as I was getting hotfoot too, and went with Look Keo's. I've always been fine with clipping in and out so none of that is a problem. They have 4.5 d float and that seems to do the trick. They have another set of cleats that go up to 9 d but I don't think I need it.

Actually, the 2008 Look cleats have grippy things on them. I was walking on wood floors, cement floor, stairs, and concrete and wasn't slipping.

What a difference though with the carbon shoes! The pedaling efficiency I've experienced compared to the mt shoes and frogs are like night and day. My foot feels much more stable. I think this setup will do the trick. Boy, are good shoes important. The Specialized I have has a varus wedge and metatarsal button too.

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Has the pain in your knee improved at all with the new shoes?

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Originally Posted by salsabike

Yen, just fyi, I have had Frogs on my Sidi Dominators also, and am about to put Quattros on the Dominators. So those two types of cleats can also be used--you just have to carve a little off the bottom of the shoes, and the LBS can tell you how to do that.

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salsabike: Thanks for the tip. Why are you moving from Frogs to Quattros?

Hi,
has anyone used the Speedplay Light Action pedals? I bought a wonderful pair of Sidi Genius 4 from LBS. (last year stock) and a good friend I ride with has encouraged the Speedplay. But...he thinks I should have stayed with the X Series. Truthfully, what I read is that the Ligh Action has an easier release and more float.
Thoughts?
Thanks....Jean

Yes, the pain in my knee is gone.

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Originally Posted by Yen

salsabike: Thanks for the tip. Why are you moving from Frogs to Quattros?

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Two reasons: I wanted to see if some, but less, float would be good enough for my knees, because of what Andy Pruitt says in his Complete Medical Guide for Cyclists: "The less float your cleats have, the more power you can produce. With more float, your leg muscles have to work harder to stabilize your foot as it rotates on the pedal. Therefore, it's best to choose pedals with the least amount of float you need." I knew I needed more float than SPDs provided, but wanted to try to not have unlimited float.

Second reason: I wanted to be able to pedal unclipped safely if necessary for short periods of time. I personally could never quite do that on Frogs--unclipped, it's easy for me to have my foot just slip off, and I didn't like having to worry about that.

But they sure saved my knees after SPDs, and I think they're great.

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Originally Posted by salsabike

I wanted to see if some, but less, float would be good enough for my knees...

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When I got my Epic mtb bike, it came with Crank Bros Candies. I just put those babies on my road bike to see if it would help my hot spot and reduce the hip pain. I'll take it out for a spin and see if I like 'em better than the Frogs. Stay tuned. :)

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Originally Posted by salsabike

--you just have to carve a little off the bottom of the shoes, and the LBS can tell you how to do that.

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I have never quite gotten up the courage to try clipless, but I really want to! I have shoes and I have pedals and the only thing holding me back now is that I do need to trim the shoes a bit, and I am not sure how to do it. I didn't buy the shoes or the pedals at my LBS, so don't feel comfortable asking them for help. Does anyone have any tips on how to go about this?

....I'm going back to the Frogs. The Candies just didn't feel right and when I tried taking them off the cranks, they were super tight. I mean I thought I was going to pop a vessel trying to get those things off. :p Hubby tried and tried and finally it loosened up. Somehow they got tighter as I rode. :confused:

Froggies it is.

Just got Mudmucker's Frogs (Thanks again!) the other day and I adore them. I had some SPDs and they were making my good knee freak out- too much recentering tension for me. I'm actually enjoying my rides finally thanks to these and my super-squishy Selle Royal Lookin (mens) saddle. It's still too squishy up front, so I'm looking into the Allay, but for now I can ride and not have bruised buttbones for 4 days after 5 mins riding. Just waiting for my new stem to come in and then I think I'll be nearly dialed in. All the great discussions here on TE have helped so much! I also picked up some Shebeest shorts at REI last night- so much better than the crap REI brand ones I naively tried first which liked to fold in half- ow! Only thing left is a mirror (I don't recommend the Zefal one BTW). Debating between italian road bike mirror and the sprintech.

Yay ! Happy endings for both of us.

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Originally Posted by KnottedYet

Because they do all of those things, and have no moving parts to fuss with! :p
Plus they have 20 degress of float (which can be very nice for some women's knees) and are passive release (very very easy to get out of).

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We'll I spoke to the bike shop dudes and they sold me the new specialized bike with these things and they work pretty well. I had to go back to get them adjusted after the first ride. I had alot of trouble getting out of them. I think they greased them a little bit.
Any maintenance to keep them working properly? Can I use white lightening on them?
Tiff