Perimenopause & hormones

Can anybody relate?

I'm waking up soaking wet. At least 10 times a day, I flash & not just "Gee is it warm in here?" but sweating. I'm in Arizona staring down 100+ degree days. Not fair. Saw my gyn yesterday & she rx'd a patch - estrogen & progestin. Has anybody taken hormones to get through this period?

I know the lack of sleep is feeding my depression/irritability. I'm hoping the estrogen boost will move me out of it. SSRI's make me really stupid, but I take a small amount to smooth out the rough edges - mainly so I don't bonk my DH over the head for leaving his underwear laying around (again! Grrr!! Was I put on this planet to pick up after this man?? I digress...) See what I mean?

Part of me - the 60's flower child - says that I should move through this without meds - learn the lessons of life- etc. The fact is that suicide runs in our family - my mother tried twice & my brother was successful so I'm very alert to depressed feelings in myself. All of the docs say "take the pill" but if your only tool is a hammer, doesn't the whole world look like a nail?

I'm just rambling, so I'll stop now. I'm hoping that some TE sisters can at least tell me that I'm not alone!:confused:

Well, I'm 6 years past peri-menopause, but I still go through periods of night sweats and minor flashes. I did not take any hormones when my symptoms started. I actually started the peri-menopause symptoms in my early forties and did not stop my periods until I was 48. Sometimes I went 6-9 months without one and felt like I was going to explode. The first year after I stopped, I had no symptoms and then I went through 3-4 years of hot flashes that I think were mild to moderate compared to some.
I think it's OK to take the hormones for a very*short* period of time, given all of the negative stuff I've read about them. In the mean time, I would investigate alternatives. One thing that I know is being hot makes hot flashes worse. I lived in AZ for 16 years, and I can't imagine being there during the time I was having a lot of flashes. Keep a water bottle nearby and drink constantly. I often would keep a cool cloth on my desk and sneakily wipe down when my students weren't looking! I tried black cohash and it did nothing. You might want to try acupuncture. It has helped me with other medical things and has a good track record with some gynecological issues. Make sure you find a reputable practitioner who has experience with this, though. Learning some meditation techniques/breathing also helped me get through the flashes. It gave me something to focus on beside how hot I felt!
Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Dogmama

I know the lack of sleep is feeding my depression/irritability. I'm hoping the estrogen boost will move me out of it. SSRI's make me really stupid, but I take a small amount to smooth out the rough edges - mainly so I don't bonk my DH over the head for leaving his underwear laying around (again! Grrr!! Was I put on this planet to pick up after this man?? I digress...) See what I mean?

Part of me - the 60's flower child - says that I should move through this without meds - learn the lessons of life- etc. The fact is that suicide runs in our family - my mother tried twice & my brother was successful so I'm very alert to depressed feelings in myself. All of the docs say "take the pill" but if your only tool is a hammer, doesn't the whole world look like a nail?

I'm just rambling, so I'll stop now. I'm hoping that some TE sisters can at least tell me that I'm not alone!:confused:

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Besides your hot flashes, perhaps there's something in life that is nagging at you. I tend to believe that long-term depression is not hereditary. Suicide is never just an instant sudden idea or unsubstantitated action. Depression and how we deal with it is based more on learned behaviours how people cope in new, better ways or break past family pattterns of how to deal with problems of coping with the future and present.

I'm not the right person for advice, since my perimenopause is completely the opposite. Period is gently and slowly fading away. Get only a mild hot flash for 5 min. maybe once or twice at start of my period..in the morning.

But keep on cycling. Every physician does recommend regular exercise during this time.

your doctor probably won't let you take those hormones for more than 2 years, then you're going to go through the same thing again!
a friend of mine prolonged the agony for years by getting on and off hormones.
I am 56 and have been in full menopause for 3 years and I still get hot flashes day and night. The frequency is finally going down but i still get some doozies.

I find them somewhat amusing, because I'm usually cold. good luck.

For a while my research project was black cohosh. This is an herb used as an alternative to hormone replacement. It has been tested thoroughly for estrogenic activity, and has none (an old report claimed it did, but that turned out to be a contaminant). Whether it is effective depends on the study. It may depend on which brand--I'd be cautious of Remifemin, the most popular brand, which lacked the marker compounds for black cohosh (and thus, possibly didn't actually have any black cohosh at all).

That is the problem with "dietary supplements"--anything labelled as such is not FDA regulated, and quality control is not consistent. It may not be what it says. The GNC brand seems to be pretty consistent.

My thinking is, even if it is only as effective as placebo, that's pretty good. Placebo reduces hot flashes by 50%. When I'm that age, I hope someone will give me a sugar pill but convince me it is a potent drug. Hormone replacement is more effective, it reduces hot flashes by 85%. Black cohosh is probably somewhere in between.

My research has been on whether black cohosh, like hormone replacement, increases the risk of breast cancer. Since it is not estrogenic, it is not likely to have that side effect. It seems to act through neurotransmitter receptors in the brain. It did not increase or decrease mammary tumors in my rats. If it also doesn't interact with tamoxifen, it would be a great alternative because tamoxifen causes hot flashes just like menopause.

I'll disagree with the idea that long term depression is not hereditary. Without going into extreme details, there are many depressive disorders in one branch of our family, including bi-polar, dysmthmia and anxiety disorders. We can track disorders going back four generations. All the appropriate treatment in the world hasn't fixed a chemical imbalance in my brain. It's helped a lot - I certainly function in a more healthy fashion- but 10 years of excellent therapy, while it rooted out a lot of baggage and issues, has not been able to shake the low grade depression that is a fact of life for me.
My MD psych has suggested that I wait until menopause is over to try and function without meds as it's not been working before.

I am a big fan of Dr. John Lee's work. He's very against the use of certain kinds of estrogen, and believes we have too much estrogen already (estrogen dominance). I've used the recommendation of bioidentical progesterone creams with lots of success. One of his ideas that makes perfect sense to me is that Ma Nature intended for us to have reduced estrogen as we age - so why on earth do we keep adding it back in? The environmental factors also make a lot of sense to me.

You might take a look at
Estrogen Dominance

for a perspective on this.

I believe I have just started going through the peri part. I started having palpataions at around the same time every month and I want to whack my dh over the head at least a couple times a day. I am emotional and not thinking rational thoughts. This is of coarse a couple weeks out of the last few months. I am only 39 but it is possible. My GP wants me to go see my gyno doc and have her run the test needed. Right now I am taking a vitamin called Optivite. It is supposed to help with these problems. But it takes at least 2 months to see an improvement. I have been on them a month so far. Haven't noticed any real change yet.I am going to keep records for a little longer before I go see my gyno about it. i just want to be armed with info so she can say "oh yea I can see a patern here". But I won't take hormone's though I want a more natural approach.

Guess my placebo is having eaten and continuing to eat tofu for many years...like breathing to me. We'll see.

(Not to be confused with soy sauce nor miso, which too much of it is unhealthy ...cause it's too much salt.)

and for lruhan: Would be great, if you can ease off meds. after meno. sometime. My comments were intended that even 1-2 family members who are bipolar, etc. doesn't mean all other generations will get it nor be affected much for long.

I started when I was your age, Brandi.

My mom says it lasted about 10 years for both her and her mother.

oh, goodie....

At least exercise seems to help me. Alcohol makes it worse for me. Chocolate... lots of salt... much better! (too much sweating = loss of salt, I guess.)

The GFs and I that are in the same boat say this (meant to be funny in a way, but NOT in the true sense): "It's a coin toss: am I suicidal, or am I homicidal?" Isn't being a woman just "wonderful" sometimes? BLEAH!

I went to a shrink for part of the depression, and it was helpful in many ways. The shrink was: a woman, an older woman/mother/wife (been there, done that, sorta thing), and bonus prize... a cyclists. By some miracle, both my fm doc, and gyno docs' are cyclists.

I have yet to do the meds. I have some though sitting in my medicine cabinet. My endorphine happy serratonin rush from pedaling keeps me from flipping the proverbal coin mentioned earlier. All of my docs said above encouraged my cycling as a positive outlet. The dog happily gets walked to death with me listening to my ipod too. One of my GFs went on a low does BC pill just for the hormone help. It helped her. She's not a cyclist, but runs and whacks the living he$$ out of tennis balls as a treatment.

I don't use this now, but there is a antiper/deorderant called Certain Dri you can buy OTC. It's high aluminum content, so check with your doc. But, it was the only thing to combate the sweats at work. You use it at bedtime, and for the love of gawd do not shave your armpits before applying it.

I'll save my long rant about picking up DH's underware. But in short: no, you are not meant to be on Earth to pick up the underware. My shrink had some opinions about underware that worked on many different levels.

Unfortunately my wise mother told me that it is a good ten years for the change to happen with the family women. Guess my bike has a lot of miles in it's future.

You're not alone, FWIW... hope there are some things from the TE wisdom that helps carry you through.

Miranda :)

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Originally Posted by Dogmama

Can anybody relate?.... I'm hoping that some TE sisters can at least tell me that I'm not alone!:confused:

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I can relate.
I often feel like I'm swimming against the tide. So, without going into a lot of 'discussion' on it, I'm just going to say that if HRT will make a big difference in getting you over the hump of the worst part of menopause, and your doctor checks your health and gives the ok, then go for it.

I'm 55, almost postmenopausal (I think), and haven't ever taken HRT, though my doctor would've been happy to prescribe it. But really, I think I've had a pretty gentle menopause--I did and still do occasionally get flashes, both night and day, but they're nothing compared to what some women go through. Mine are like someone else mentioned--short and not too intense. Exercise helps, though I never would have thought one body could produce so much perspiration! :eek:

Here's an interesting thing to look forward to: now that I seem to be coming out on the "other side" of the pause, I'm actually beginning to feel colder than most people around me, much of the time. Then a flash hits and I have to start peeling things off. It's a roller coaster!

I still think this is where I am heading - hot flushes during the night sometimes - last month I had only 3 weeks between periods - that hasn't happened since I was a teenager! (Even after babies, my period began in regular 30 day cycles).

I am glad you have the reassurance of being able to talk with women here, Dogmama. I am glad you recognise patterns in your family and are aware of your own feelings.

The hippy in me (even though I was BORN in the 60s, so was a flower-bubba, rather than a flower-child) really wants to get through this part of my life medically unassisted. But like you, if needs must, then I will try what I need to if I have to. Ultimately, we still want to enjoy every day. Take care of yourself - this too will pass.

I don't take any medication lightly. I have lupus. Hormones that are not exactly right will cause a flare. Progesterone is the worst for me, but I know it helps lots of my friends. This stage of my life is almost unbearable. The hot flashes (sweating, turning bright red) are always followed by a cold flash - like my body doesn't have anymore body heat to give me. So, I alternately throw covers off and then bundle up at night. And wake up at 3:00 AM, tired of fighting the battle.

My doc said that she'll taper me when the time is right. She's very holistically inclined, but doesn't prescribe anything that doesn't have a foundation of proof. I used to work with Andrew Weil, so I've been the herbal compound route. It might have helped when my symptoms were mild, but now they just give me expensive urine. I used to declare that I would never go on hormones because they aren't natural & if my body wants to age, we'll do it gracefully. Mommie Dearest isn't natural. OK, not that bad - but inwardly I'm screaming "No metal hangers!"

I've done tons of therapy and it helps. I don't know how women who don't exercise get through this period. Without my workouts, especially cycling, I'd be really miserable. Although, it is a little disconcerting to be weight lifting & start hot flashing. Hopefully all the young kids just think I'm working REALLY hard!

I am soooo right there with you on this. I have not had night sweats yet, but during the day I cannot get cool enough a lot of times.
I am very groucy and snippy a lot and I hate myself this way.
I will be sitting here doing nothing and then all the sudden my back will feel like it is going to combust. Use to be that I didn't sweat, and I felt like it would cool me off it I did. Well now I am sweating while sitting and doing nothing and it still doesn't cool me off, just make me angry. I feel so angry all the time.
I do know that exercise helps, because on the days I ride, I will go all that day and maybe the next and have no flashes (and I think mine are mild copared to some) but if I don't ride for a few days because of weather or what have you, then I will have more.

I haven't been to the doctor yet, cause I still question what I have going on, and I am only 43 soon to be 44.

As women we have to deal with so much with these hormones, I swear I don't know why we have to deal with periods all our lives and then deal with this too. :confused:

Oh, well nothing we can do about it I guess. Can't change the grand scheme of things now, but sure wish I could hand it back. LOL

I am 48 and beginning to see some 'symptoms' of peri-menopause. Mainly heavier periods and night sweats. The night sweats dont' bother me much - not wearing pj's helps a lot. Now that I'm aware of the heavier periods, I am being more prepared. :rolleyes: since I've been caught off gurad a bit the last feew times. I am on the pill and my doctor said stay on it, it'll help.

So here's what I'm wondering for you ladies who've been there, done that. If you have always had an easy time with menstruation and no PMS, do you think you have a tendency towards an easier time with menopause? I'm hoping that's the case.

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I'll disagree with the idea that long term depression is not hereditary.

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Yes, please. Some people who have never been depressed just cannot relate to it. It is so harmful to people who have depression to perpetuate the myth that they can just "think positive" and "get over it'. Don't you think that if it were that simple, they just would. Why would anyone choose not to do that simple thing that makes life better?

So, please, don't say it's not hereditary. There's more to it than just wishing.

Karen

Wait, wait, wait. Whether it's hereditary and whether it's "real" are completely different questions. Broken legs aren't hereditary, but they're obviously a real, painful and disabling condition. In many cases depression may be like a broken leg - a normal response to trauma, but real, painful and disabling, and only sometimes responsive to treatment.

Back to topic: yeah, I'm perimenopausal too, and if you look at the age poll I think it's most of us :rolleyes:

At least I'm past the age where I'm buying pregnancy tests four or five times a year because my periods aren't regular any more. Although I still have stress in that department, it's not as often...

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

Yes, please. Some people who have never been depressed just cannot relate to it. It is so harmful to people who have depression to perpetuate the myth that they can just "think positive" and "get over it'. Don't you think that if it were that simple, they just would. Why would anyone choose not to do that simple thing that makes life better?

So, please, don't say it's not hereditary. There's more to it than just wishing.

Karen

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I should clarify, too.... not all depressive disorders are hereditary, but there is certainly evidence that in some families, it most certainly is.

I'm now 45 and on the pill. Last year I had one or two hot flashes during the day and a period of about 3 days where I was terribly angry and picked a big long-distance fight with my sister and did not feel at all like myself. Then, one day, everything was better and I felt like I woke up from a bad dream. For the last couple of years, my period has been getting shorter and lighter, and since last year I've had a lot of night sweats, but I don't mind them, since I'm usually cold.

I'd like to get my hormones tested, but since I'm on the pill I don't think a test would show what's really going on in my body? I talked to my gyno about going off the pill, but she said that at my age they are putting women ON the pill. She said if I went off it, my period would be like it was when I was a teenager (for me it was very irregular).

Next Feb. my husband will get a vasectomy, and a few months later I can go off the pill without worrying about pregnancy. I figure if I don't like it, I can go back on the pill. I've been on the pill for 20 years and it seems like my sex drive has been lower the whole time I've been on it, so that's another reason I'd like to try going off it (and I've tried several formulations). Also another reason I'd like to get my hormones tested.

Lots of depression in my family, too. My mother had it and committed suicide when I was a baby - I don't remember her. All my sisters have it, 2 out of 3 of my sister's kids have it, and I have it too. My favorite coping strategy is to admit it and go with the flow. When I'm particularly depressed, I force myself to do a chore that I've been putting off because I hate it. I figure, I'm miserable anyway, why not do something I hate? Better than ruining a nice day later.:p It's usually very slow going, of course, but when the dreaded task is finished (or at least well begun), I usually get really happy about my accomplishment and feel much better.

Jenn

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Originally Posted by OakLeaf

Wait, wait, wait. Whether it's hereditary and whether it's "real" are completely different questions. Broken legs aren't hereditary, but they're obviously a real, painful and disabling condition. In many cases depression may be like a broken leg - a normal response to trauma, but real, painful and disabling, and only sometimes responsive to treatment.

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I don't really understand what you're trying to say. It's irrelevant to my point whether each and every case of depression is hereditary. Just the fact that some cases are hereditary proves it's real.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Tuckervill

I don't really understand what you're trying to say. It's irrelevant to my point whether each and every case of depression is hereditary. Just the fact that some cases are hereditary proves it's real.

Karen

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My point is that whether it's hereditary is irrelevant to whether it's real.

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Originally Posted by jennrod12

I'd like to get my hormones tested, but since I'm on the pill I don't think a test would show what's really going on in my body?

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Jenn, they have more sensitive/accurate blood tests now than they used to for testing your hormone levels while you are still on the pill. You get your blood drawn on the last day of the week when you are not taking your pills- on the seventh day, just before you start the next pill cycle. It is supposed to let you accurately know whether you have started menopause yet, or whether you have completed it, or even if you have not started menopause at all yet. Ask your doctor about the new blood tests, hopefully he/she would know all about them.

Hi Dogmama,
My DGF has just started with hot flashes. She also has lupus. Her hot flashes were so intense that she could not sleep. For her, so far, cutting back on the caffeine has helped significantly. She is a big time caffeine person, so she has her 2 cups of coffee a day and perhaps a caffeinated soda during the day, but none at night. Its helped her a lot. She still has a couple at night and is a woman on fire during the day (caffeine probably).

We just goggled hot flashes and came up with some information on About.com. We do have the black cohosh that some one else mentioned. The laying off of the caffeine has worked so well, that DGF hasn't tried it.

Keep us informed on what you find out that will help. I can see that my DGF may get to the point that you are at. She too does not react as expected to hormones. Her lupus is attacking her endocrine system and that is nothing but hormones.

I wish you luck,
Mary

Ditto to lots of what Donna said . . . but I can say prozac helps . . . I'm 44 . . my last doc saidit was no big deal (snark)

Just wanted to add.....I'm 4 years into menopause. I used to have severe bouts of insomnia until my gyne prescribed Trazadone in a low dose for sleep. My insomnia was due in large to my hormones that were awry. My blue period was preceded by the lack of sleep.

Here's an interesting website for ladies in menopause. There's a section devoted to hormone therapy that I think you might enjoy perusing.

www.hystersisters.com

I went to a continuing ed meeting that addressed depression. It was determined in one study that depression was linked to the male chromosome.

I've been on HRT for 5 years.... when I started was right after the big article on the ties between HRT and other medical issues in Journal of American Medical Assoc (JAMA). My ob/gyn at the time said, 5 years, and we'll take you off. So it's been 5 years, original Doc has moved away, so now I see his partner, a Lady Doc. SHE has put me on a 1/2 dose to wean me off, but said if I get the night sweats, can't sleep, and can't function, then we'll increase the dose again for another year, and try again. Apparently the Rx I'm on is more specific than the med tested in the JAMA article that brought up some issues.

So, I haven't filled my new 1/2 dose Rx. Can report back in a month... (I had just refilled my Rx before my annual visit with Lady Doc, and am too cheap to throw away the pills).

5 years ago, when I asked for HRT - I tried the other methods to deal with the *change of life*. Was eating right, cut back on caffine, got plenty of exercise, "it's a natural process, I can live through it". Yeah, right. Waking up hot, then cold multiple times during the night, was just too much, I couldn't function.

Why are the hot flashes so bad during the night anyway????

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Originally Posted by kelownagirl

So here's what I'm wondering for you ladies who've been there, done that. If you have always had an easy time with menstruation and no PMS, do you think you have a tendency towards an easier time with menopause? I'm hoping that's the case.

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With no scientific backup, I do think that is the case. I've always had horrible PMS - to the point that I planned my wedding in the middle of my cycle. My perimenopause has been really hard too.

My thoughts are that if we are more sensitive to our hormonal fluctuations, we'll have more problems. At least, that's my experience.

Took the patch off today. It has kicked my lupus up and my hot flashes are actually a little worse. No sleep at all last night - I was up every hour totally drenched. My hands are swollen (lupus) and my joints ache. I can't take any more lupus med, I'm at my limit. My rheumatologist says it's very common for hormones to crank up lupus.

Oh well, at least I don't have to obsess about the breast cancer link. I've had my period for 44 years & that's a lot of estrogen.

Coyote, I don't drink a lot of caffeine. I mix decaf/caf 50/50 & have maybe two cups a day. I think the hot liquid kicks up the hot flash too. What a great way to start a day - sweat dripping down your back.

I can go from normal to sweating in under a minute. I don't think my stove gets hot that fast. Maybe I'll start cooking eggs on my forehead & save electricity. :mad:

I have been perimenopausal for a long time (I am 50 now, no uterus but still have ovaries). I find vaginal estrogen cream does the trick for me. My undersanding is that it is much safer than oral estrogens. Perhaps you should discuss this option with you doc.

Dogmama, sorry to hear about your bad night. That would absolutely shut me down.

Karen

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Originally Posted by Dogmama

Maybe I'll start cooking eggs on my forehead & save electricity. :mad:

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That's just a miserable existence. :( My massage therapist sells a product called Progestone cream. This is a bioidentical cream that helps relieve symptoms of menopause--hot flashes, moodiness and headaches. She swears by it. Perhaps this could help you relieve your Lupus symptoms as well.

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Originally Posted by BleeckerSt_Girl

Jenn, they have more sensitive/accurate blood tests now than they used to for testing your hormone levels while you are still on the pill. You get your blood drawn on the last day of the week when you are not taking your pills- on the seventh day, just before you start the next pill cycle. It is supposed to let you accurately know whether you have started menopause yet, or whether you have completed it, or even if you have not started menopause at all yet. Ask your doctor about the new blood tests, hopefully he/she would know all about them.

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Thanks, Lisa! I'll have to look into that.

Jenn

I just noticed this thread, and thought I would weigh in.

I'm determined to get through this without hormones. I just hit a phase where the hot flashes are waking me up, but I still refuse to do HRT. Sleep medication, maybe.

My symptoms have been all over the map. I get 3 or 4 things going on, then they stop and a new set of symptoms start. In the first year I really thought something was wrong with me - I couldn't concentrate on anything for more than 30 seconds. I had the heart palpitations constantly for 2 months, then they stopped. I'd get dizziness, a sensation that feels like an electrical charge, hand pains, etc. etc. It wasn't until I found a list of common menopause symptoms that I realized it was all (probably) caused by fluctuating hormone levels.

The worst by far is what they call "mood swings." I call them Fits of Rage. I've had moments when I would have paid good money to be able to strangle the next person who came near me. Just uncontrollable rage. Once I realized that these were, too, part of menopause, it let me step back and wait them out.

I was describing the fits of rage to a friend who had already gone through this. She started laughing: "When your estrogen dips lower, you're getting a glimpse of what it's like to have more testosterone!" Yowza. :eek:

Anyway, below are a couple of lists of the common symptoms. My strategy is to spend as much time as I can making myself happy, and to limit activities that will make me irritated. Eat right, exercise as much as possible. And I'd like to comment that this might be easier to deal with if there weren't age-related changes going on at the same time. Sheesh.

http://www.minniepauz.com/35symptoms.html
http://34-menopause-symptoms.com/

Oh, Dachsund, I'm right there with you!

And on that "Minnie Pauz" list, I think I've got all but 4 or 5!

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Originally Posted by sundial

Just wanted to add...My blue period was preceded by the lack of sleep.

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just don't go cutting off an ear ;)